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I Before E posted:When this thread was talking about non-title ladder matches, I can't believe nobody mentioned the epic 3 Count/Jung Dragons ladder match for 3 Count's recording contract and gold record. That match was ok but God Almighty the commentary makes it pretty much unbearable. If you have to watch it, mute it.
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Jun 26, 2013 16:29
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Speaking of commentating, it can really break or make a match sometimes. There are certain matches (Striker commentating in particular) where I wish they would just edit out things or record a new commentary because some moron is commentating who ruins the moment for all posterity. Has there ever been an announcer who kind of botched their commentary and dragged down a match and apologized for it afterwards?
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Jun 26, 2013 16:49
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I Before E posted:When this thread was talking about non-title ladder matches, I can't believe nobody mentioned the epic 3 Count/Jung Dragons ladder match for 3 Count's recording contract and gold record. Which is on Ladder Match 2 on Netflix. Just a tip for those who haven't seen it. Tank's superfan persona is really weird and unsettling. Snacksmaniac fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jun 26, 2013 |
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Jun 26, 2013 17:01
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Snacksmaniac posted:Which is on Ladder Match 2 on Netflix. I know, that's why it came to mind. I'm currently on the Tajiri & Guerrero v. Team Angle match.
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Jun 26, 2013 17:05
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I Before E posted:I know, that's why it came to mind. I'm currently on the Tajiri & Guerrero v. Team Angle match.
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Jun 26, 2013 17:11
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Snacksmaniac posted:It's a decent collection. It has the WrestleMania 23 MITB match which I saw live but remember none of. I'm not sure why Razor/Michaels was on it, given it should have been the first choice for the first one, but at least that amazing match is on Netflix.
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Jun 26, 2013 17:15
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Tato posted:Speaking of commentating, it can really break or make a match sometimes. There are certain matches (Striker commentating in particular) where I wish they would just edit out things or record a new commentary because some moron is commentating who ruins the moment for all posterity. About half a year ago (I think but I'm not positive, that it was Hell in a Cell 2012) JBL was the absolute worst at commentary during a Divas match and then acknowledged it and apologized during the segment afterward.
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Jun 26, 2013 17:37
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Bigass Moth posted:The WHC is a midcard jobber/going nowhere title like the IC belt was in the early 00s, so I don't see much reasoning to keep it as a "world championship." It seems like they give all these guys WHC runs to prepare them for the REAL Cena title. Also it's still technically the Smackdown title, as it still gets defended in Smackdown main events but rarely on Raw. I don't mind that. Free-floating rosters but title-defense-exclusive shows would be fine, but it's not official at this point and I wish they'd make it official. Does Raw still do intros? The last several weeks I haven't remembered a fireworks intro or theme song, just a wide shot of the arena from the nosebleeds and then something happens.
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Jun 26, 2013 17:43
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I am not 100% sure, but I feel like WWE dropped pyro for intros years ago. It was at the time they were cutting costs overall, the first thing I noticed was that they cut way back on pyro.
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Jun 26, 2013 17:49
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triplexpac posted:I am not 100% sure, but I feel like WWE dropped pyro for intros years ago. It was at the time they were cutting costs overall, the first thing I noticed was that they cut way back on pyro. There also seemed to be less at WM this year.
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Jun 26, 2013 17:50
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Didn't they cut back after some fire scare a few years ago? Did that happen or am I making that up?
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Jun 26, 2013 17:59
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oldpainless posted:Didn't they cut back after some fire scare a few years ago? Did that happen or am I making that up? Pyro injured a bunch of people at Wrestlemania 24. I don't know if there was another incident or not.
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Jun 26, 2013 18:03
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When they moved to the HD set, they lit a bit of it on fire
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Jun 26, 2013 18:06
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And that Elimination Chamber where Undertaker was ignited.
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Jun 26, 2013 18:18
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It was all Matt Hardy's doing.
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Jun 26, 2013 18:21
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What do you think is the logical endpoint of any heel stable? If you push a heel stable to be a dominant threat (like the nWo or The Shield), it seems inevitable that they'll win some top titles and "take over" the company to some degree. If you keep the heel stable on top for too long the faces start looking like incompetent idiots who can't even tie their shoes (WCW), so the point is to have some faces finally defeat them before they get stale (like Daniel Bryan finally beating The Shield). I ask because The Shield seem to be in an odd space right now. They definitely ran roughshod over the company and top talent for months, but it's not like they really "took over" or ever won the world title. Daniel Bryan finally vanquished them in 6 man competition, so the whole "face finally beats the heel group" storyline seems done and each subsequent victory over The Shield will mean less and less. Should The Shield just continue to be solid workers who retain the mid-card belts and give some credibility to them, or should they move things to a higher level? Basically, I see a lot of people griping about how The Shield are being handled now, but I honestly can't think of what to do with them right now. They seem to be in a holding period until one of them is deemed ready to challenge Cena.
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Jun 26, 2013 19:25
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I hope they'll continue to be booked strongly overall but a loss here and there is okay at times. I'd have preferred to see something like the SHIELD, Punk, Brock managed by Heyman go on a dominant streak over everything but are brought down by internal fighting stemming from Brock deciding he wants more and who is going to stop him. What I mean by this is, a dominant heel stable is not just defeated by good guys but if you want some kind of Hunter like long lasting reputation, have the stable be destroyed from within by themselves. I mean, Evolution did this, right? And we got Randy Orton and Batista out of it. Main eventers. Granted there's more surrounding it but it's kind of the example I'm going for.
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Jun 26, 2013 19:30
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Gatts posted:I hope they'll continue to be booked strongly overall but a loss here and there is okay at times. I'd have preferred to see something like the SHIELD, Punk, Brock managed by Heyman go on a dominant streak over everything but are brought down by internal fighting stemming from Brock deciding he wants more and who is going to stop him. What I mean by this is, a dominant heel stable is not just defeated by good guys but if you want some kind of Hunter like long lasting reputation, have the stable be destroyed from within by themselves. Yeah, the only effective way for a heel stable to end is through internal dischord; the catalyst of said dischord should be the babyfaces stymying their grand design, but the dischord is what creates new stars. Otherwise you get the Nexus.
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Jun 26, 2013 19:39
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The Shield at this point are going to be a 3-man version of Sheamus. Over, but not really carrying the company or doing anything remarkable. They'll continue to have great matches in the middle of random shows and PPVs. I hate to say it, because I really loved the unit when they started and thought they had a lot of potential. But they've already been overexposed and are now sliding into the WWE midcard trap. I'm not even saying they're being "buried" or whatever... they're just going to be the same as everyone else in the WWE who isn't John Cena, The Rock or HHH.
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Jun 26, 2013 20:25
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Those guys are totes donezo. Time for the Wyatt family to take over for a couple months then get buried deep in the swamp that is the WWE.
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Jun 26, 2013 20:43
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To me a group like the Shield can be treated more like a heel tag team or even the Four Horsemen rather than a huge invading heel group llike the NWO, SCUM, or Aces and 8's. Groups like those with a "takeover the company" agenda definitely need to have a clear blowoff angle planned from the outset or you run the danger of them growing very stale. On the other hand, Insee no reason why the Shield couldn't continue to exist as an over trio for quite some time.
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Jun 26, 2013 21:07
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The Shield haven't ever expressed a desire to take over the company, have they? Their motives are still very shadowy, and I've come to like that because they're not the Bond villain, laying out their plans explicitly so they can be thwarted. They act more like a real terrorist group would. e: I misread you Thauros, my bad.
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Jun 26, 2013 21:13
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Vince said the SHIELD remind him of himself, right? Shouldn't that be included in their storyline somehow? It's like they are unofficially endorsed by the CEO in this case or should incorporate some of Vince into themselves.
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Jun 26, 2013 21:18
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Gatts posted:Vince said the SHIELD remind him of himself, right? Shouldn't that be included in their storyline somehow? It's like they are unofficially endorsed by the CEO in this case or should incorporate some of Vince into themselves. Eh, I think the only reason Vince said that was because HHH said he wanted Shield punished. The comment wasn't about The Shield, it was just a small part of the ever-building McMahon Family Drama Summmertime Spectacular
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Jun 26, 2013 21:37
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Gatts posted:Vince said the SHIELD remind him of himself, right? Shouldn't that be included in their storyline somehow? It's like they are unofficially endorsed by the CEO in this case or should incorporate some of Vince into themselves. Can't wait for the Shield to strut to the ring then tear both quads.
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Jun 26, 2013 21:39
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Shield coming out to No Chance would be the greatest moment in wrestling history.
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Jun 26, 2013 21:42
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getitoffgetitoff posted:Was NJPW consistently the biggest promotion in Japan since it's foundation? Was there any point where you could consider AJPW more popular? NOAH was #1 in Japan during Kobashi's title reign up until he got cancer. In the 90s there were points where AJPW was arguably #1, but I feel like there was always an argument for New Japan. Maybe in the 80s it was more clear cut, I think AJPW switched to all clean finishes first and saw its business jump because of it.
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Jun 26, 2013 21:58
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I feel like the endgame of a successful heel stable isn't necessarily discord, but branching off. Let's say all three decide to go their separate ways and recruit a tag team each. Now you have three cool stables, with three clear leaders. Not to spread them out and overload them all like the NWO did, but to have them independently go toward their own goals, with backup. One might turn face, one might go tweener and attack everyone, one might stay heel, whatever. But once you reach the top as a stable, splitting off into subfactions is another method of success if you handle it right and they don't cross each other's paths. Then you can always do a reunion whenever it suits the team. Of course this would've worked better when there were three brands, but eh what can you do.
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Jun 26, 2013 22:35
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I feel like The Shield are going to be a big part of the upcoming Feuding McMahons angle so that seems like a great place to make everybody here hate them and wish they would all go away.
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Jun 26, 2013 23:04
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Yeah, dollars to donuts they become Vince's attack dogs.
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Jun 26, 2013 23:09
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oldpainless posted:Didn't they cut back after some fire scare a few years ago? Did that happen or am I making that up? The tron caught on fire 30 mins before a Raw in Cincinnati once and since then they've had less pyro, though I think less pyro was in the equation anyway.
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Jun 26, 2013 23:28
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oldpainless posted:Didn't they cut back after some fire scare a few years ago? Did that happen or am I making that up? They lit a part of the post-1000th RAW set on fire last year during a pyro test. This happened a few hours before broadcast, if I recall. Yeah, there is a lot less pyro nowadays because WWE has really been cutting back on costs when it comes to stages and production. The switch to the HD stage in 2008 was the start and now we're at the point where even PPV sets are a cleverly rearranged mix of LED screens and lights from that HD stage.
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Jun 27, 2013 00:47
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sticklefifer posted:I feel like the endgame of a successful heel stable isn't necessarily discord, but branching off. Let's say all three decide to go their separate ways and recruit a tag team each. Now you have three cool stables, with three clear leaders. Not to spread them out and overload them all like the NWO did, but to have them independently go toward their own goals, with backup. One might turn face, one might go tweener and attack everyone, one might stay heel, whatever. But once you reach the top as a stable, splitting off into subfactions is another method of success if you handle it right and they don't cross each other's paths. Then you can always do a reunion whenever it suits the team. I think your notion has its merits, but it's good to remember that ROH did this with GenNext and it was basically poo poo. It would have been poo poo even if Aries hadn't gone away.
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Jun 27, 2013 01:03
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FakePoet posted:Based on the general response to their recent match(es), and given how odd it seems that putting guys like Jericho and Punk together wouldn't guarantee a great match, are there any other notable matches between guys deemed great that just didn't click? It was a hardcore wrestling fan's dream, but the few matches Sabu and Cactus Jack had definitely didn't live up to the hype... Even Foley admits they didn't live up to expectations.
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Jun 27, 2013 10:46
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UndergroundHero posted:It was a hardcore wrestling fan's dream, but the few matches Sabu and Cactus Jack had definitely didn't live up to the hype... Even Foley admits they didn't live up to expectations. Sabu having a bad match? Shocker, I know.
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Jun 27, 2013 12:01
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As a young teenager, Sabu was fired from his summertime job of mowing neighborhood lawns because he missed too many spots.
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Jun 27, 2013 12:46
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sticklefifer posted:I feel like the endgame of a successful heel stable isn't necessarily discord, but branching off. Let's say all three decide to go their separate ways and recruit a tag team each. Now you have three cool stables, with three clear leaders. The original NOD with Faarooq, Crush, and Savio Vega did this and all 3 resulting factions all sucked.
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Jun 28, 2013 02:24
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Generation Next did the same, with the same sucky result. Well thats unfair I guess as the NRC were awesome, and the vulture squad had the dual handicap of being booked as an after thought and having jigsaw as a member.
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Jun 28, 2013 02:34
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Shiki Dan posted:The original NOD with Faarooq, Crush, and Savio Vega did this and all 3 resulting factions all sucked. Somewhat related question: why does the WWE seem to shy away from saying "Nation of Domination", choosing to go with "The Nation"? I think I noticed this in the last video game.
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Jun 28, 2013 02:40
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Because when Rock took it over they shortened it to The Nation. It's also less unwieldy.
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Jun 28, 2013 03:39
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