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Hey, Zearoth, my install of Srbj adventures seems to be pretty unstable - it's crashing on Nov 5, 1845 like clockwork for me. Is there a file I should send you besides the save?
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Jun 30, 2013 04:58
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| # ? May 28, 2024 23:33 |
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Oh yeah, you could also diplo vassalize and annex more or less anybody who was weaker than you with enough effort in vanilla EU3. I remember a Castille AAR that had him diploannex Great Britain with all of its massive colonial empire and Hungary that had blobbed into Iraq.
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Jun 30, 2013 05:02
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DerLeo posted:Hey, Zearoth, my install of Srbj adventures seems to be pretty unstable - it's crashing on Nov 5, 1845 like clockwork for me. Is there a file I should send you besides the save? Could you pastebin the game.txt file from X:\Users\<user>\Documents\Paradox Interactive\Victoria II\A Srb\logs? To be honest that's a crash I also get often, not on that specific date, but by the late forties, though restoring from an autosave tends to fix that. I am still trying to track down what it is, but I suspect it might be something involving the Spring Time of Nation events, as it doesn't happen after the 40s. One thing you can do, to try and fix it on your end, is to open the save file in a text editor and change the date right at the start of it. It should look something like date="1845.7.1", depending on your latest save, so just shift it to date="1846.1.1". At least that helped me deal with a regular unrelated (?) crash in a previous version of the game.
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Jun 30, 2013 05:55
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http://pastebin.com/FE7x4G8x
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Jun 30, 2013 06:11
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Hmmm... Thanks. Yeah, I am as clueless as you are, but I should have a new version before the weekend is over, fixing some things I do know are broken, so maybe it will help! Did you try the save date change, by the way?
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Jun 30, 2013 06:32
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ZearothK posted:Hmmm... Thanks. Yeah, I am as clueless as you are, but I should have a new version before the weekend is over, fixing some things I do know are broken, so maybe it will help! Did you try the save date change, by the way? Yeah, both advancing it a full year and to the 1st of next year - still pops out 4 days after the new date. Pretty odd.
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Jun 30, 2013 06:37
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Cycloneman posted:Saoshyant descendent is agnatic, like Sayyid. All their male children will have the Saoshyant descendant trait. Except it wasn't happening for already existing male grandchildren. So take out the mother is saoshyant descendant line and boom.
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Jun 30, 2013 07:39
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You know, the worst thing about the EvW trainwreck is that one of my friends, who hasn't been following development closely, still has hope that the game is going to be good. I don't know how I'm going to break the news to her. 
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Jun 30, 2013 09:10
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Perhaps with the news that you shall be Emperor Fizbin of Japan in EvW if the Prime Minister is killed in the 1950s and the Imperial Party takes power?
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Jun 30, 2013 09:19
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Yeah I had high hopes for EvW.
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Jun 30, 2013 09:22
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It seems like the Victoria 2 developers planned for everything. I was getting too much consciousness and CSA cores so I conquered Haiti to see if I could make it a slave state. As soon as the wars over I see "Hispanolia is accepted as a Slave State" and the event for consciousness. I'm now going to go Confederate just to see how badly I can gently caress up the Americas.
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Jun 30, 2013 10:51
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You don't need to go Confederate to gently caress up the Americas.
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Jun 30, 2013 10:54
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I've read that it's possible to avoid the ACW altogether by outlawing slavery in the US pro-actively, but is the opposite also possible? That is, you just make the whole of the US accepting of slavery everywhere without the convulsions of the Confederacy? For that matter, what's the benefit of having slaves?
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Jun 30, 2013 11:00
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gradenko_2000 posted:I've read that it's possible to avoid the ACW altogether by outlawing slavery in the US pro-actively, but is the opposite also possible? That is, you just make the whole of the US accepting of slavery everywhere without the convulsions of the Confederacy? I think it really only benefits aristocrat pops. They increase the output of RGOs, like farmers/laborers, but they don't get paid.
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Jun 30, 2013 11:41
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It always seems bizarre to me that I can legalise slavery as a communist nation. I guess maybe the gulag system, but there are/were plenty of "work camp for prisoners" arrangements across the world that don't get counted as slavery...
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Jun 30, 2013 11:53
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Gort posted:It always seems bizarre to me that I can legalise slavery as a communist nation. I guess maybe the gulag system, but there are/were plenty of "work camp for prisoners" arrangements across the world that don't get counted as slavery... It stops pops from promoting out of RGOs?
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Jun 30, 2013 12:00
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Gort posted:It always seems bizarre to me that I can legalise slavery as a communist nation. I guess maybe the gulag system, but there are/were plenty of "work camp for prisoners" arrangements across the world that don't get counted as slavery... The answer is that is that Johan has no clue what socialism/communism is. The gulag is literally a retooled Katorga, which Stalin revived in the late 1920s and 1930s; and it's silly to assume that the first worker's state that is the Revolutionary Socialist Republic of Mexico (for example) would suddenly set up Tsarist work camps - or what this really is in V2 - pick out a group to set up for chattel slavery. Gorgo Primus fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Jun 30, 2013 |
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Jun 30, 2013 12:07
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New EU4 dev diary: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?699131-Europa-Universalis-IV-Developer-diary-37-Aragon-Naples-and-Korea It looks like they've gone through all the game mechanics and major players (at least those which they want to reveal in a dev diary) and are now on to going through the tier 3 nations. Still, it's nice to see that there are unique ideas even for nations like Aragon which will likely get eaten by a bigger fish. Also I don't know if this has been revealed before but it looks like you can choose from a list of missions which you'd like to pursue, which will hopefully alleviate the late-game problem of being bombarded by missions to build a manufactory in the middle of nowhere.
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Jun 30, 2013 12:14
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How many countries in Vicky II's timeframe actually reimposed a slavery system, anyway? It seems like you shouldn't be able to switch back to it after you get rid of it.
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Jun 30, 2013 12:24
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BBJoey posted:New EU4 dev diary: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?699131-Europa-Universalis-IV-Developer-diary-37-Aragon-Naples-and-Korea Aragon has a national idea called "Protect the Little Folk." Paradox 
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Jun 30, 2013 12:39
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Gorgo Primus posted:The answer is that is that Johan has no clue what socialism/communism is. The gulag is literally a retooled Katorga, which Stalin revived in the late 1920s and 1930s; and it's silly to assume that the first worker's state that is the Revolutionary Socialist Republic of Mexico (for example) would suddenly set up Tsarist work camps - or what this really is in V2 - pick out a group to set up for chattel slavery. Uh, no. Communists can reinstitute slavery in V2 because a Communist UH can always repeal political reforms, and the abolition of slavery is a political reform. Reading it as "Johan doesn't know what communism is" rather than "unintended consequences" is bizarrely ungenerous, especially when Johan was even lead dev on V2 (that was King).
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Jun 30, 2013 12:41
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Autonomous Monster posted:(that was King). Although he definitely doesn't know what communism is.
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Jun 30, 2013 12:46
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And besides even if you re-allow slavery, I don't believe slave POPs would re-appear. So it's totally superfluous.
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Jun 30, 2013 12:46
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Autonomous Monster posted:Uh, no. Communists can reinstitute slavery in V2 because a Communist UH can always repeal political reforms, and the abolition of slavery is a political reform. Reading it as "Johan doesn't know what communism is" rather than "unintended consequences" is bizarrely ungenerous, especially when Johan was even lead dev on V2 (that was King). Sorry I meant to say King; I'm just really used to blaming Johan for everything as a stand-in for listing the various PI Devs and I apologize. If it was just that then sure, but the entire way they are handled in V2 leads me to think its not just an accident that they have no interest in fixing. For example, last I played V2 it was easier to get fascists to allow me to legalize socialist trade unions than it was to get communists to do so because of the way the Devs conceived socialist priorities. Perhaps a more generous assessment would be that the entire political reform system is broken and dumb and that communist parties seem to get the brunt of the shittiness for various reasons. Edit: And based on statements made by King in the past, it's not crazy to think him having no clue what communism is plays a role in all this. Gorgo Primus fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Jun 30, 2013 |
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Jun 30, 2013 12:49
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Autonomous Monster posted:Uh, no. Communists can reinstitute slavery in V2 because a Communist UH can always repeal political reforms, and the abolition of slavery is a political reform. Reading it as "Johan doesn't know what communism is" rather than "unintended consequences" is bizarrely ungenerous, especially when Johan was even lead dev on V2 (that was King). It's just bizarre that they can do something so fundamentally opposed to their viewpoint. It's like saying, "a fascist upper house has ultimate power, so they can allow free and fair elections".
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Jun 30, 2013 12:49
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Gorgo Primus posted:Sorry I meant to say King; I'm just really used to blaming Johan for everything as a stand-in for listing the various PI Devs and I apologize. If it was just that then sure, but the entire way they are handled in V2 leads me to think its not just an accident that they have no interest in fixing. For example, last I played V2 it was easier to get fascists to allow me to legalize socialist trade unions than it was to get communists to do so because of the way the Devs conceived socialist priorities. Perhaps a more generous assessment would be that the entire political reform system is broken and dumb and that communist parties seem to get the brunt of the shittiness for various reasons. I don't understand why each ideology can not support (or oppose) specific reforms or support certain reforms when they are in opposition but oppose when they are in power. They really dropped the ball there because they wanted ideologies to be neatly symmetric to each other for some reason.
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Jun 30, 2013 12:59
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Autonomous Monster posted:Uh, no. Communists can reinstitute slavery in V2 because a Communist UH can always repeal political reforms, and the abolition of slavery is a political reform. Reading it as "Johan doesn't know what communism is" rather than "unintended consequences" is bizarrely ungenerous, especially when Johan was even lead dev on V2 (that was King). Then the problem is that the system may be a bit too generic. I mean, we do know why Communism is allowed to reinstate Slavery under the game mechanics, the criticism is that the game mechanics shouldn't work like that.
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Jun 30, 2013 13:44
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I'm really hoping they change the political map mode in EU4 to be more transparent or something. It looks really bad on terrain like mountains, but then again it was changed for CK2 at the last moment. Here's a beta stream before the political map mode change was made, it's the same sort of matte thing going on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boqsLiUgSC8
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Jun 30, 2013 13:51
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I see no reason why a communist state couldn't be massively, massively hypocritical. "Freedom for all oppressed peoples of the world...except Croats, they are subhuman scum only fit for mining and must be managed directly by the state." I mean yea it flies in the face of the ideology to have an elite group of people able to own other people by the virtue of one already being powerful and the others being socially outcast, but it's also insanely hypocritical and "absurd" that a state based on the proposition that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with an inalienable right to liberty would practice chattel slavery.
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Jun 30, 2013 14:02
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Autonomous Monster posted:Uh, no. Communists can reinstitute slavery in V2 because a Communist UH can always repeal political reforms, and the abolition of slavery is a political reform. Reading it as "Johan doesn't know what communism is" rather than "unintended consequences". Don't you know? Playing a game someone worked on lets you know someone to their very soul. I played Xcom and now know for a fact that Jake Soloman has no idea what walls are  I do think slavery and citizenship should be a country decision or something special if/when we do another Victoria though, they're both things that don't fit well into the standard reforms/party issues system.
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Jun 30, 2013 14:12
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There's no way for POPs to convert to slave POPs. The only point of slavery being allowed in the game is keeping any slaves you already have, or any slaves in areas you conquer. Being able to re-institute slavery has absolutely nothing to do with the devs understanding of communism or any other ideology.
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Jun 30, 2013 14:14
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I don't need to have magic to know what King thinks about certain topics because he posts, tweets, and I do believe he used to hang out on IRC; all I need is a memory. I'd make a hypothetical example with Jake Soloman, but I've never played XCOM before so I wouldn't be able to do so well enough for it to be worth it.  Is there no way to dramatically change the political/economic reforms system for the better through an expansion?
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Jun 30, 2013 14:17
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Tulip posted:I see no reason why a communist state couldn't be massively, massively hypocritical. "Freedom for all oppressed peoples of the world...except Croats, they are subhuman scum only fit for mining and must be managed directly by the state." Exactly. And considering the fact that the people who were sent to labor camps had often been convicted of 'crimes' they never committed or that were political in nature, you could easily argue that that's technically a form of slavery. Though I guess it's true that it's a specific type of slavery that is of a different nature than, say, slavery in 19th-century Brazil.
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Jun 30, 2013 14:30
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ThePutty posted:I'm really hoping they change the political map mode in EU4 to be more transparent or something. It looks really bad on terrain like mountains, but then again it was changed for CK2 at the last moment. Here's a beta stream before the political map mode change was made, it's the same sort of matte thing going on. Wow you're right that does seem basically the same. As you say current CK2 style looks a lot better so I do hope they make it a little more transparent.
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Jun 30, 2013 14:31
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gradenko_2000 posted:Then the problem is that the system may be a bit too generic. I mean, we do know why Communism is allowed to reinstate Slavery under the game mechanics, the criticism is that the game mechanics shouldn't work like that. Oh yeah, I'm not going to claim it makes sense. Just that we maybe shouldn't be so quick to attribute it to malice rather than incompetence. Especially when the ideologies seem so obviously designed to be evenly distributed in a will advance/will hold/will revert political/social reform possibility grid rather than to accurately simulate their real world counterparts.  Gorgo Primus posted:Perhaps a more generous assessment would be that the entire political reform system is broken and dumb and that communist parties seem to get the brunt of the shittiness for various reasons. Got me thinking now, can we design a better reform system? fspades posted:I don't understand why each ideology can not support (or oppose) specific reforms or support certain reforms when they are in opposition but oppose when they are in power. That'd probably be the first step.
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Jun 30, 2013 14:46
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Gorgo Primus posted:For example, last I played V2 it was easier to get fascists to allow me to legalize socialist trade unions than it was to get communists to do so because of the way the Devs conceived socialist priorities. To be fair, in both the USSR and China, independent trade unions were (and still are in China) essentially illegal. The right to strike is gone, and the unions transform into venues to promote the government's point of view. If you're thinking of a trade union as an independent organization representing the viewpoints of workers, then a Communist government would likely feel it to be unnecessary, as they would by their very nature take into account the needs of workers. Of course both governments pay a lot of lip service to Unionism, especially in the USSR (that's what the Soviets were after all) but they were powerless as venues of organization for better conditions or life after a short time of 'Communist' government.
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Jun 30, 2013 15:03
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Tie slavery to party ideology. To use American parties as an example, have the republicans have the "Anti-Slavery" stance. If they win in a certain number of elections AND have an upperhouse majority slavery gets repealed.
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Jun 30, 2013 15:07
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That would take away the choice from the player though and that's not something that should happen automatically. TBH I don't see any particular reason not to just abstract it some more. Get rid of slave pops, make slavery a decision and then just have events on the movement and growth/decline of it that allow you to control where slaves go and such. Slave state give a modifier to all aristocrats in the state that reduces their income a fair bit but boosts thier rgo efficiency bonus. Then throw in a bunch of election events revolving around it, as well as events that stimulate slave revolts. And give events for slave countries that allow them to enslave the majority foreign culture in states they conquer, giving a massive relationship hit to all culture in that culture group. And when a slave state is conquered by a non-slavery country they can release the slaves and gain a militancy decrease in that state for a while. Allow for both slow and fast dissolution of slavery. Getting rid of it fast gets rid of all the slave states, but it pisses the aristocrats off heavily and gives you massive penalties to administration and crime fighting efficiency as your country adjusts to the massive change. Slow takes a lot longer, but the aristocrats gain militancy at a slow constant rate instead of all at once, and it allows slave states to choose individually whether to give up their slaves or fight. There's no specific need for a slave pop, and the infrastructure already exists to simulate it much better through events.
Zeron fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jun 30, 2013 |
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Jun 30, 2013 16:01
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Gorgo Primus posted:I don't need to have magic to know what King thinks about certain topics because he posts, tweets, and I do believe he used to hang out on IRC; all I need is a memory. I don't think King has tweeted anything, ever. It wouldn't be impossible to change in an expansion either if we did another, although it's not exactly a flashy feature for the box unless we did a lot more there as well. I wish all our games were on the CK2 model already, because this would be ideal for one of their big patches that accompany their DLCs. Autonomous Monster posted:Oh yeah, I'm not going to claim it makes sense. Just that we maybe shouldn't be so quick to attribute it to malice rather than incompetence. Especially when the ideologies seem so obviously designed to be evenly distributed in a will advance/will hold/will revert political/social reform possibility grid rather than to accurately simulate their real world counterparts. I would have preferred "simplicity" to "incompetence", but pretty much :p Everything's a game model, and ideally they'll have simple rules that evoke the right flavour, even if they're not exactly accurate. Everything needs to be balanced between accessibility and realism, historical accuracy and freedom to change it etc. and there'll always be people who wish we'd gone more one way or the other. It's not like the AI will even re-institute slavery if they go communist, it's just a possible action the player can take. Maybe we should disable the possibility, but it doesn't seem a huge issue to me.
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Jun 30, 2013 16:04
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Simplicity layered underneath complexity is the wrong way around.
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Jun 30, 2013 16:06
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