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Nuclearmonkee posted:They need time to clean the poo poo out of the escalators and also: http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2012/07/24/why-does-bart-need-to-do-nightly-maintenance/ Whoever's job is to clean out the escalators deserves to make 7 figures.
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Jul 2, 2013 03:57
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Quantum Mechanic posted:It's a good thing you're an experienced transit engineer, then, otherwise holding an opinion on something you know nothing about would be really stupid "What do they even do, anyway? They just stop and start and tell you what stop they're arriving at!"
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Jul 2, 2013 04:04
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Quantum Mechanic posted:It's a good thing you're an experienced transit engineer, then, otherwise holding an opinion on something you know nothing about would be really stupid Indeed, verily it is obvious that it is only the recommendations of experienced transit engineers that require that the train shut down at precisely 12:29am every day including Saturday. There could not possibly be time for maintenance between bar closing and all the people BARTing it to church at 4:30am every Sunday morning. However, this is irrelevant. I do not care what the reasons are, because my being an experienced transit engineer would not alter my ability to be home in my bed rather than sitting in a bus stop at 3 am. Make it happen. I do not care what your excuses are. Oh, you want my support? gently caress you.
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Jul 2, 2013 04:06
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etalian posted:You also have a entity (Prison unions) actively shooting down attempts at prison reform because more warm bodies in jail means better pay and more job security for the union. A relative of mine is a CA warden and pretty happy about having to release at least 25% of her population, especially the "lawnmower thieves."  The poo poo I've heard about that person's peers and subordinates is awful. 
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Jul 2, 2013 04:07
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All Of The Dicks posted:Indeed, verily it is obvious that it is only the recommendations of experienced transit engineers that require that the train shut down at precisely 12:29am every day including Saturday. Actually yes, I guarantee you there IS a reason that the train shuts down at that time. It has been given to you in the thread - the staffing would become too expensive. Do you expect other people to work longer hours for less pay for your convenience? What you're essentially saying is you'll support the union as long as they acquiesce to the demands of the legislature. If you want a BART service past 12:30 maybe you should be doing some lobbying for more money to go into public transportation, because the fault lies entirely with the legislature who will not approve more money to run the service for longer. All Of The Dicks posted:However, this is irrelevant. I do not care what the reasons are, because my being an experienced transit engineer would not alter my ability to be home in my bed rather than sitting in a bus stop at 3 am. Make it happen. I do not care what your excuses are. Oh, you want my support? gently caress you. "I'm a petulant child who has ignored the reasons he has been given that are entirely out of the union's control as to why public transport is poo poo, let me stamp my feet and whine that the union should DO SOMETHING about it, all glory to neoliberalism."
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Jul 2, 2013 04:58
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Waaaah the Christians are out to get me
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Quantum Mechanic posted:Actually yes, I guarantee you there IS a reason that the train shuts down at that time. It has been given to you in the thread - the staffing would become too expensive. Do you expect other people to work longer hours for less pay for your convenience? What you're essentially saying is you'll support the union as long as they acquiesce to the demands of the legislature. If you want a BART service past 12:30 maybe you should be doing some lobbying for more money to go into public transportation, because the fault lies entirely with the legislature who will not approve more money to run the service for longer. Plus the BART light was never designed for round the clock operation due to having only two tracks. Without extra track redundancy there's not enough time to do basic track safety checks and repairs on a almost 24 operation schedule. Most big US cities with metro don't offer operating hours like NYC, even other big cities such as Chicago send off the last train around 1AM.
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Jul 2, 2013 05:06
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etalian posted:Most big US cities with metro don't offer operating hours like NYC, even other big cities such as Chicago send off the last train around 1AM. Chicago Red and Blue lines run 24 hours. Even LA metro runs trains until 2 AM on Fridays and Saturdays. Running trains late on weekends really is such a simple step to increase public safety.
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Jul 2, 2013 05:08
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etalian posted:Plus the BART light was never designed for round the clock operation due to having only two tracks. Without extra track redundancy there's not enough time to do basic track safety checks and repairs on a almost 24 operation schedule. Blue and Red lines in Chicago are 24 hour  Blue goes to O'Hare, and Red goes straight up the lakefront along the highest density areas and thus has a lot of riders at all hours.
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Jul 2, 2013 05:10
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The main reason is the maintenance time and lack of extra tracks. Systems that do run overnight are designed to do so but BART wasn't planned with that kind of expansion in mind. Staffing could be worked out a lot more easily if necessary, though I don't doubt that union resistance to potential part-time hiring instead of full-time is a factor. Keep in mind that BART is a regional commuter rail system, not at all comparable to Chicago's or NY's metro systems. It was designed to move workers from distant suburbs to downtown areas. It is a pretty poor way to get around over shorter distances. Anyway, I'm sure BART already has All Of The Dicks on speed dial when they need a planning consultant. vvvv They are only down 4-6 hours per night, cutting that by two makes a big difference. Can you do your job in 1/2 to 2/3 of the time that you do right now? withak fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 05:16
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I donno, they're open till 12:30 on weekends already. An extra 2 hours a night would probably be doable, and would really be a good thing for people who like to do any nightlife activities on the other side of the bay.
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Jul 2, 2013 05:20
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Dusseldorf posted:Chicago Red and Blue lines run 24 hours. Even LA metro runs trains until 2 AM on Fridays and Saturdays. Running trains late on weekends really is such a simple step to increase public safety. Yeah it's much safer way to get the drunk crowd home at night than the driving deathtrap.
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Jul 2, 2013 05:24
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Dusseldorf posted:Chicago Red and Blue lines run 24 hours. Even LA metro runs trains until 2 AM on Fridays and Saturdays. Running trains late on weekends really is such a simple step to increase public safety. From the cool story bro file, back when I lived in K-Town on the Purple Line spur, I wished that they'd run the trains til 3 instead of 2 so that I could take a train home from Hollywood instead of shelling out for a cab. It was still nice to be able to take it at least one way since even with the cost of the cab, it was only $5-10 more than the cost of parking without any worries. I now live on the Blue Line and I could theoretically still take the train to Hollywood, but even if was willing to brave the Blue at night, how the hell would I get back?
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Jul 2, 2013 06:04
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withak posted:Best solution would be a second transbay tube between OAK and SFO. Or further south and tell the peninsula NIMBYs to go gently caress themselves.
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Jul 2, 2013 07:19
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The London Underground shuts at 12:40 and runs 24 hours on NYE (and for free!). Nightly track maintenance is way more important than anything else. Although London does have insanely good night buses.
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Jul 2, 2013 07:50
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I am OK posted:Nightly track maintenance
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Jul 2, 2013 09:47
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It sounds pretty lame but they vacuum clean all the tracks to get rid of metal shavings. The NYC subway runds 24/7 because they have parallel tracks so they can disable a whole set and clean it off while the other stays running.
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Jul 2, 2013 10:15
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I presume the machine that does this runs slower than a subway train, which is why they shut it down. Couldn't they slow service at night to accommodate this rather than stopping it entirely? Or is maintenance to unpredictable to allow this to work?
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Jul 2, 2013 11:01
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There's welding that goes on too, as well as visual inspections at all of the corners. They have to turn all of the electricity off so you can't run anything really. Remember that it's 150 years old so everything is falling apart pretty much constantly. I don't know how they'll ever modernise it properly.
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Jul 2, 2013 11:19
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I am OK posted:There's welding that goes on too, as well as visual inspections at all of the corners. They have to turn all of the electricity off so you can't run anything really. It is probably possible to some extent, just it just would require billions to do, and you know how that works in this country. It probably isn't possible to run Bart 24 hours a day but it doesn't seem like it would be impossible to run 1 or 2 night trains at around 1 or 2 across the bay just to reduce drunk driving.
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Jul 2, 2013 11:44
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Ardennes posted:It is probably possible to some extent, just it just would require billions to do, and you know how that works in this country. They need a contiguous window of time to do maintenance, and the regular 4 hour window is barely enough time to do anything. Tighten it and you are going to have more morning delays due to maintenance.
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Jul 2, 2013 14:17
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Nuclearmonkee posted:They need a contiguous window of time to do maintenance, and the regular 4 hour window is barely enough time to do anything. Tighten it and you are going to have more morning delays due to maintenance. It wouldn't be daily, maybe 2 days a week max on one section of the line.
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Jul 2, 2013 15:56
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I read somewhere a while that back single-tracking where required to run trains overnight while doing maintenance would result in a schedule with trains every 60-90 minutes. There is also a big safety issue with doing that because rail industry people really hate working alongside an active track and a live third rail. They would probably have to give the union free blowjobs to get them to do that every day.
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Jul 2, 2013 16:03
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The LA Metro light rail runs until 2am, and it's only two rails for each line as well. I'm sure given the money and willpower, BART running times could be tweaked to some extent on Friday and Saturday nights. Edit: LA Metro will also run double-duty late night schedules for big events, too. Last summer when I went to Hard Summer (30-50k people music festival/rave), Metro ran until I think 4am with trains every 15min or something and your ticket to the event also worked as your ticket for the train that night. Even though the city of LA hates raves and rave-type events (and there was some dumb aggressive LAPD hijinks at the event), running the trains late is a really convenient and responsible option. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 17:36
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Pellisworth posted:The LA Metro light rail runs until 2am, and it's only two rails for each line as well. I'm sure given the money and willpower, BART running times could be tweaked to some extent on Friday and Saturday nights. gently caress I wish the Metrolink trains ran that late. My Metrolink line runs until 6pm and only has 4 whole runs on the weekend, 2 groups set 8 hours apart.
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Jul 2, 2013 18:29
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Pellisworth posted:The LA Metro light rail runs until 2am, and it's only two rails for each line as well. I'm sure given the money and willpower, BART running times could be tweaked to some extent on Friday and Saturday nights. Moving to NYC has been like acquiring a superpower, as far as public transport goes. It's not just that it runs all night, that it's really fast, it's that people are expert at using it. People jump on and off in half a second on the train. It's awesome.
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Jul 2, 2013 18:34
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http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/BART-talks-in-limbo-as-strike-paralyzes-commute-4641826.php Nothing like sending a half-million commuters a big "gently caress you" message for two days by not even bothering to negotiate. Both sides say that they are waiting for the other side to call back.
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Jul 2, 2013 21:02
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coolskillrex remix posted:http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/07/01/bart-workers-officially-strike/ It says "base salary." And I don't see the union disputing this claim. 71k for blue collar labor is quite high even for the bay. UPS drivers for example make about as much, are unionized, but have to pay quite a bit more for their healthcare and 401k. Their work is arguably more tiring as well.
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Jul 2, 2013 21:15
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The average is of limited use because it includes everyone from electrical and mechanical people who have to maintain and fix the 30-year-old technology in a hurry when it breaks down (and who require a lot of training and experience), to the people who sit in glass booths and tell tourists how to use the fare gates.
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Jul 2, 2013 21:47
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withak posted:http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/BART-talks-in-limbo-as-strike-paralyzes-commute-4641826.php Well in negotiations the first side to make the initial offer ends up with a worse hand.
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Jul 2, 2013 21:50
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The initial offer is long past. Right now most of the bay area can't get to work and both sides are relaxing at home saying that they are ready to negotiate as soon as the other guy gets back to them.
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Jul 2, 2013 21:53
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withak posted:http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/BART-talks-in-limbo-as-strike-paralyzes-commute-4641826.php I'd suspect that BART is not willing to come to the table because the media narrative is hurting the union and they'd like to let it go for a couple of days.
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Jul 2, 2013 21:54
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withak posted:The average is of limited use because it includes everyone from electrical and mechanical people who have to maintain and fix the 30-year-old technology in a hurry when it breaks down (and who require a lot of training and experience), to the people who sit in glass booths and tell tourists how to use the fare gates. $71k base is specifically the average for "train operators and station agents," which I believe is the SEIU union. I saw another figure earlier (I want to say $86k?) if you include the other union, which has the maintenance and other technical employees.
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Jul 2, 2013 22:09
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This article about the strike has been bouncing around, for what it's worth.
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Jul 2, 2013 22:11
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GrumpyDoctor posted:This article about the strike has been bouncing around, for what it's worth. Useful quote: quote:As BART officials have inflated the salary figures of BART train operators and station agents to an average of $71,000 annually, the SF Examiner reported workers make a maximum of $62,000 annually. While this still may seem like a decent salary, a family of four living in the Bay Area need $74,341 a year just to get by. Note that the inflated number is being thrown around without any kind of investigation at all, much like the UAW worker numbers used to be, the ones that included all benefits written as dollars.
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Jul 2, 2013 22:19
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sincx posted:$71k base is specifically the average for "train operators and station agents," which I believe is the SEIU union. I saw another figure earlier (I want to say $86k?) if you include the other union, which has the maintenance and other technical employees. That makes a little more sense. For anyone who hasn't ridden BART, the trains are automated so a train operator's main task is to sit in the cab and hit the button to open/close the doors while the train is at the platform. They also have an emergency stop button that they can hit if they see an obstacle ahead of them on the tracks and a button to pull ahead slightly if the automatic stop doesn't happen at the right spot on the platform. withak fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 22:27
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Does anyone know of any relatively objective reads about all this stuff going on with BART? I want to see something that gives both sides some fair consideration, but most of what I've heard from people I know is anti-union chatter. Somehow I doubt the whole thing is so black-and-white.
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Jul 3, 2013 05:26
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AshB posted:Does anyone know of any relatively objective reads about all this stuff going on with BART? I want to see something that gives both sides some fair consideration, but most of what I've heard from people I know is anti-union chatter. Somehow I doubt the whole thing is so black-and-white. Certain people don't like the unions especially the whole needless whining over unsafe working conditions.
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Jul 3, 2013 05:30
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etalian posted:Certain people don't like the unions especially the whole needless whining over unsafe working conditions. So where is the argument backed by citations debunking the proposition that BART has unsafe working conditions?
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Jul 3, 2013 05:42
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All of the strikers should be fired for holding the public hostage.
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Jul 3, 2013 06:04
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Kyrie eleison posted:All of the strikers should be fired for holding the public hostage. You're the shittiest Catholic.
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Jul 3, 2013 06:16
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