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Deteriorata posted:Cask 12 That's actually pretty compelling. Are there any islands with B names? SheepNameKiller posted:The whole look north to bedloe/fort hamilton thing is actually one of the most prominent older theories about this cask, so we're essentially just going in circles. Ah ok I didn't see it on the wiki.
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Jul 2, 2013 17:08
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I'm just throwing stuff at the wall here, but in Brooklyn, there's a playground named after Secretary of the Interior Harold Ickes right next to Hamilton Avenue. Ickes pronounced his name as rhyming with "sickness" ("him of hard word?") and his diary was published in three volumes. But I agree that the Ft. Hamilton/Bedloe Island stuff is still worth considering. EDIT: There's a John Paul Jones park in Brooklyn that's right next to Ft. Hamilton Parkway- Jones served in the Russian Navy after the American Revolution. The Monkey Man fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 17:13
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Are any of y'all new York based? The verse mentions a sign - if there's any signs mentioning natives around d the new York harbor that could be a clue.
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Jul 2, 2013 17:27
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SheepNameKiller posted:Your ideas are pretty crazy Urban Smurf so be careful going around calling people idiots. Thanks for the warning. Be careful posting ideas that arent labeled as crazy, they might not lead anywhere useful. People are idiotic if they post more content about whois crazy rather than throw down a modicum of counterarguement. Deter, i found something interesting about your Girl in Wetsuit. http://app.vancouver.ca/PublicArt_net/ArtworkDetails.aspx?ArtworkID=97&Neighbourhood=&Ownership=&Program= A lawyer named Brown commisioned the piece. Isle of B?
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Jul 2, 2013 18:04
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Urban Smurf posted:Thanks for the warning. Be careful posting ideas that arent labeled as crazy, they might not lead anywhere useful. People are idiotic if they post more content about whois crazy rather than throw down a modicum of counterarguement. The onus is on every poster here to prove themselves right, not on others to prove them wrong.
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Jul 2, 2013 18:22
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SheepNameKiller posted:The onus is on every poster here to prove themselves right, not on others to prove them wrong. naturally, so you are in favor of talking about supporting facts or research then?
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Jul 2, 2013 18:26
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Urban Smurf posted:naturally, so you are in favor of talking about supporting facts or research then? I'm merely calling you out for using words like idiotic for people that don't support your views.
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Jul 2, 2013 18:30
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I started making an Infobox template for the Cask pages, should be able to finish it tonight.Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:I'm not sure if it was you earlier, but there was someone else with quite a few believable zodiac signs half a thread back. It would be neat if that ended up in the wiki because I do think it's real.  CommanderKoenig posted:Re: Cask 12. This is my first time looking at this thread, but if we believe the statue is meant to be Columbia, then that could be a reference to the mouth of the Columbia River which is known to generate large, dangerous swells and current. The face of the statue also looks remarkably like Washington's on Mt. Rushmore. Urban Smurf posted:A lawyer named Brown commisioned the piece. Isle of B? GWBBQ fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 18:40
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SheepNameKiller posted:I'm merely calling you out for using words like idiotic for people that don't support your views. Im merely defining idiotic as a lack of articulation about the references. I'm not concerned with support of my views. I'm pushing a defined approach with supporting details. My work may be fruitful if understood orit may be wrong like anyone else's. I accept the humor and lambasting to an extent. We all have differences. I just see some pathetic trash talk that's not provoked nor productive. By all means disagree with me, but if I've provided a reasonable item of consideration and all you can do is argue that its not exact while posting non-exact images of your own, I think that's bordeline idiocy. The real proof in anything is having the balls to show up to a site and probing three feet down. Unfortunately I have no balls. When I showed up o my site, there were three police cruisers and a newsvan camped out. I packed it up and had to rethink my strategy.
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Jul 2, 2013 18:46
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SheepNameKiller posted:They did extensive reconstruction within the past year due to the hurricane ripping the island up as well, the statue might still be closed for all I know. Yeah, apparently both it and Ellis Island are closed with no planned date of reopening. Cosmik Debris posted:I didn't see it on the wiki but I also noticed the water droplets and gem on 12 are in the approximate locations of governors island, ellis island, and liberty island, with one droplet left over, assuming her gown is a vertically mirrored and represents manhattan. If the droplets aren't mirroed, then the droplet representing governors island is a drat near perfect fit for governors island, and then the fourth unnacounted for droplet would be somewhere in Dumbo in Brooklyn. Is the other droplet roughly where the Chrysler building is if it's generally in the area of Manhatten? Regarding the Ellis Island domes, all three of the domes in the picture have different "crowns." The crown on the right comes closest to the main building towers on Ellis, the middle one the water tower and the left resembles the smoke stack the most, but it's by far the worst match. You can get roughly the right horizontal spacing between the three if you view the island from Liberty State Park just north of the bridge over to Ellis.
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Jul 2, 2013 18:46
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Urban Smurf posted:Im merely defining idiotic as a lack of articulation about the references. I'm not concerned with support of my views. I'm pushing a defined approach with supporting details. My work may be fruitful if understood orit may be wrong like anyone else's. I accept the humor and lambasting to an extent. We all have differences. I just see some pathetic trash talk that's not provoked nor productive. By all means disagree with me, but if I've provided a reasonable item of consideration and all you can do is argue that its not exact while posting non-exact images of your own, I think that's bordeline idiocy. The real proof in anything is having the balls to show up to a site and probing three feet down. Fair enough, I do think the world needs thinkers like you even if personally I see a lot of your stuff as a stretch. You obviously are very good at doing research. My personal take on these casks is that a lot of the details from the photos are going to deal with patterns to be found on the site and I don't think there's more than one or two geographical clues (like map overlays) in each photo, but the sample size of casks that have been found is so small that I suppose I could be wrong about that.
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Jul 2, 2013 18:52
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Guuse posted:Is the other droplet roughly where the Chrysler building is if it's generally in the area of Manhatten? Its squarely in brooklyn, or in new york terms, no where near the chrysler building. Another idea I was playing with was Owl's Head Park, in brooklyn. It's about the only place you could be on public land and look north to the Isle of B (assuming that's liberty Island). I've been snooping around online trying to find historical markers for the area, but not having any luck. Owl's Head Park's website mentions that Henry. C. Murphy had a lot to do with it and was involved in politics, as well as being from Brooklyn. So the "natives" referred to in the verse could be people who live in brooklyn and "him of hard words" could be Murphy, but I'm finding almost 0 evidence to support anybody knowing who the gently caress Henry Murphy was. He did write some books about the history of new york, some of which were published in an anthology, but I can't find much else about it. One last thing that piqued my interest is why Preiss abbreviated Volumes as Vols. He uses a period, so I'm assuming it is in fact an abbreviation for volumes, but a Vol is a symbol of a bird's wings that aren't attached to a body (particularly in heraldry and military insignia). Given the bird theme of the painting I thought there might be something to it. But I can't find much.
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Jul 2, 2013 18:54
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One thing to remember is that the phrase is actually "Indies native" and not just "native". I have this gut feeling that verse is not referring to NY at all for some reason, though I do feel like the picture fits well. I think that verse was placed in NY because of the grey giant line and nothing else, but that's far from conclusive.
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Jul 2, 2013 18:56
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SheepNameKiller posted:One thing to remember is that the phrase is actually "Indies native" and not just the singular "native". Actually its: "Although the sign Nearby Speaks of Indies native The natives still speak Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols." So the two ideas are probably separate. That is to say there's a sign mentioning natives, and also the natives of this place still refer to this person of hard words in three volumes." Hendrick Hudson is still referred to by the natives? There's certainly been a lot of volumes written about him (some by Henry Murphy). New York history is intertwined with the native peoples, and a lot of stuff is named after indians, so that doesn't rule it out in my mind. Are the old new york tribes dead or are there living descendents of them? Do they speak of anyone if they're still around? Cosmik Debris fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 18:58
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To just expand on what I said a bit, I think it's the wrong type of mentality to assume you can look at a picture and tell where the cask is buried. I think you need to solve the verse first to get to the general geographic location of the cask. Once you've solved the verse, THEN the details of the picture, which can easily be made to fit hundreds of similar objects, will start to make sense within the context of the location.
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Jul 2, 2013 18:59
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Cask 12. Much has been made of the material hanging from the belt but the bottom of the dress itself looks like an outline and going with previous posters' theories about the water droplets, it does appear they could represent landmarks around the outline. One thing that stands out is how the drop I circled is rotated to 45 degrees or so. The dress could be a road or area and the drops would represent components of the verse in relation to the road or area.
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Jul 2, 2013 18:59
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Cask #3 Sorry if this is a dupe but has anyone made a connection to the Virginia Dare (aka Lost Colony) monument? It's really more of a marker, located on a woodland path that leads to the fort. After circle and square In July and August A path beckons To mica and driftwood It seems logical that the path is actually the Water Gate Walk but I thought I'd take this in a different direction and see where it goes. The Elizabethan Gardens are a circle within a square... but so is the celtic cross (kinda sorta).   Under that Which may be last touched Or first seen standing Look north at the wing And dig ... again, a bench seems logical. There a lots of stone benches in the park and gardens. But I wonder what other interpretations there are for these lines?  I live about an hour away from Roanoke Island and plan on making a visit this summer. UPDATE: On further consideration, I'm zeroing in on the Waterside Theatre. Wikipedia says: Wings: Areas that are part of a stage deck but offstage (out of sight of the audience). The wings are typically masked with legs. The wing space is used for performers preparing to enter, storage of sets for scenery changes and as a stagehand work area. Wings also contain technical equipment, such as the fly system.   EDIT: Added fort path comparison image. EDIT EDIT: Wings. grendelspov fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 19:21
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Cosmik Debris posted:Its squarely in brooklyn, or in new york terms, no where near the chrysler building. Ah OK. I'm a bigger proponent than most around here about the possibility that there may be "maps" in the picture, so I think this is pretty cool. For what it's worth, even if the crowns on the onion dome window match Ellis Island (and that is very debatable) then the domes themselves could still be matched elsewhere -- the crowns are only a tiny part of that part of the picture. Cosmik Debris posted:One last thing that piqued my interest is why Preiss abbreviated Volumes as Vols. He uses a period, so I'm assuming it is in fact an abbreviation for volumes, but a Vol is a symbol of a bird's wings that aren't attached to a body (particularly in heraldry and military insignia). Given the bird theme of the painting I thought there might be something to it. But I can't find much. I've been quietly exploring the idea of this picture pointing to Tennessee, so even though New York seems to be starting to line up, I chuckled a bit at Vols being an abbreviation of Volunteer.
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Jul 2, 2013 19:25
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I was out walking on Peel Street today in Montreal when I noticed that the Montreal Athletics Association building also has some legeater style lamposts. I don't know how long the lamps have been there, but the MAA has been around since 1881. Peel is two streets away from Drummond (where the other legeaters are). I didn't have my camera with me so I didn't end up grabbing a photo, but I can head back tomorrow to take some photos. In the meantime, here's a blurry shot of them on Google maps.
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Jul 2, 2013 19:28
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Ed: ^^^^ Great catch. I knew there'd be more around if we looked for them. I wonder if there's any outside Montreal, or if it's their own 1880s fad.Guuse posted:I've been quietly exploring the idea of this picture pointing to Tennessee, so even though New York seems to be starting to line up, I chuckled a bit at Vols being an abbreviation of Volunteer. I've kicked that idea around as well. "Him of hard words" could be a coach, with three players from Tennessee. I've not had the motivation to see if it goes anywhere. Deteriorata fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 19:29
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Deteriorata posted:There are thousands of places in New York City that would fit as closely as you solution does. "Indies native" and "hard word" are probably there for a reason, so you need to account for them. NYC - Cask 12 Actually, I found a link about the garden club and they've been there since the 1970's. Everything checks out time-wise. The only issue with the buildings is that they may not be 100% accurate to what the author saw at the time. If I recall, one of them (the Octagon I think) was torn down and rebuilt back in the mid 90's, so it will look different from the clue. That and the hospital have crumbled to a point where they resemble a shadow of what they were. I had to base everything on more recent photos. I could try to hop over there (I'm in NJ), and I would imagine that I may see a sign or two or at the very least find they possible bed they are talking about. The only trouble here is finding someone who may have been told about the treasure and would allow a dig (assuming newer members or the current president would laugh at us). Then again, they probably wouldn't allow anything until November anyway depending on what they planted.
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Jul 2, 2013 19:59
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Deteriorata posted:I've kicked that idea around as well. "Him of hard words" could be a coach, with three players from Tennessee. I've not had the motivation to see if it goes anywhere. If you type he of hard words into google, you get a quote by Herman Melville: "A man of true science... uses but few hard words, and those only when none other will answer his purpose; whereas the smatterer in science... thinks, that by mouthing hard words, he proves that he understands hard things." Melville was also quite well known for having a large vocabulary and using "hard" words, and he happened to have been born, of all places, in New York City - in fact right across the street from Battery Park.   Battery park of course could be said to be in the shadow of the grey giant if the grey giant were the statue of liberty. Grey giant might refer to a bunch of other things too, like the Empire State building. All of manhattan could be said to be in the shadow of the empire state building, if you take a little poetic license. Moby-Dick, Melville's most famous work, and really one of the most famous anythings ever, was first published in London in 3 volumes. The natives sure as hell still talk about Melville, in fact anyone in public school would talk about melville. Furthermore, the quote above is from a book by Melville called White-Jacket, which the woman on the painting is wearing a white-jacket of sorts. In fact the whole painting has a 'white' theme to it. Since Preiss was a writer and publisher, he would have been familiar with the works of Melville, for certain. I had to read quite a few works by Melville just in highschool and then didn't even major in the liberal arts. Anyway the only thing that keeps me from saying its in battery park for certain is the "north to the isle of B". There's no isles of any kind to the north of battery park. So, just thought I'd put this out there in case anyone has any idea how a isle of B could fit into battery park. I thought the quote was a bit of a stretch at first but there's enough Melville links that there could be something to it. And maybe there's some signs in battery park mentioning natives. e: Also this happens in Moby Dick Herman Melville posted:The very first time that Ahab was in his perch aloft, almost as soon as he got there -- down out of the sky comes "one of those red-billed savage sea-hawks which so often fly incommodiously close round the manned mast-heads in these latitudes". The bird of ill-omen screamed and grabbed Ahab's hat and made off with it. As the bird disappeared in the distance, it dropped Ahab's hat from a vast height into the sea. Something is trying to send a message to Captain Ahab, but he's not about to be intimidated. e^2: Cosmik Debris fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 20:05
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Supersonic posted:I was out walking on Peel Street today in Montreal when I noticed that the Montreal Athletics Association building also has some legeater style lamposts. I don't know how long the lamps have been there, but the MAA has been around since 1881. Peel is two streets away from Drummond (where the other legeaters are). It would be quite a find if you found another. Please try and take a close up. grendelspov posted:I live about an hour away from Roanoke Island and plan on making a visit this summer.
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Jul 2, 2013 20:25
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"Although the sign nearby / Speaks of Indies native / The natives still speak / Of him of Hard words in 3 Vols." This makes me think of a street or place whose name was at some point changed to reflect Native American culture, but that New Yorkers still refer to by the original name, coming from "him of Hard words in 3 Vols." Renaming streets to reflect indigenous people is pretty common, though, and some quick research doesn't turn up anything with an original name that matches "him of Hard words".
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Jul 2, 2013 20:37
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rookhunter posted:Please take pics of the bench area if you can. The greater the number of pics to a site, the better our chances of catching some clue. Agreed... I wish I had started thinking about this in the Spring. OBX tourism traffic is bad enough where I live. Going through Kitty Hawk and Nags Head at this time of year sucks!
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Jul 2, 2013 20:54
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Cosmik Debris posted:If you type he of hard words into google, you get a quote by Herman Melville: I've read White Jacket a long time ago and Israel Potter and Moby Dick in the last year when I went on a Melville Kick. Nothing stands out but he does have a lot of sea spray imagery which we see at the bottom of the C12 image.
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Jul 2, 2013 21:05
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grendelspov posted:Cask #3 I figured it out.  Under that Which may be last touched Or first seen standing Look north at the wing And dig It's a seat but not a bench. It would be the last seat filled and the cask is due north relative to the seat orientation, toward the wing at house-right. I was thinking the furthest seat to the North West but there is a dent in the breastplate, if that's relevant, near section 2, maybe T9. Who knows if the seating was the same in the 80's or if it has been expanded?  OK, I'm probably wrong but this is fun. EDIT: TIMG, oops. Also, "December" refers to Route 12 but I think that's already been covered. grendelspov fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 21:23
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Supersonic posted:I was out walking on Peel Street today in Montreal when I noticed that the Montreal Athletics Association building also has some legeater style lamposts. I don't know how long the lamps have been there, but the MAA has been around since 1881. Peel is two streets away from Drummond (where the other legeaters are).
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Jul 2, 2013 21:25
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Very Nice Eraser posted:"Although the sign nearby / Speaks of Indies native / The natives still speak / Of him of Hard words in 3 Vols." It looks like there aren't any streets in Manhattan named for the indians who used to live there (much to the chagrin of the native population of America). Although Mana Hatta and thus manhattan is an indian word, and there is a manhattan street one block from Central park on the upper west side.
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Jul 2, 2013 21:26
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Some thoughts on Governors island, NYC.
I was hoping that "rhapsodic man's soil" would be a park area next to a road named for a musician or something similar, but nothing obvious jumps out at me. "Or gaze north toward the isle of B." would be perfect... if it was east, not north, and meant Brooklyn. Edit: Like Liberty Island and Ellis Island, we had better hope the cask wasn't on Governor's Island. The entire south end of the island is under massive reconstruction to create a new park area. Double-edit: Actually, there's a "Pershing Hall" on Governors Island. As in "Pershing's Own", the US Army Band. Rhapsodic man? Very Nice Eraser fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Jul 2, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 21:53
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Haven't posted in this thread in a while... Has anyone found one yet?
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Jul 2, 2013 22:00
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I posted an idea about the 'hard words' line a few pages back, but it was just before a lengthy argument so it might have gotten passed over. Reposting it while people are still on the subject.Pseudohog posted:Verse 10
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Jul 2, 2013 22:01
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Hmm, interesting. Athena (or Minerva) is often depcited as an owl, and Owl's Head Park is an area I've had some interest in, as it's really the only place you could be on public land and look north to the Isle of B assuming that's Bedloe's island ie Liberty Island.
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Jul 2, 2013 22:26
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Cask 9 Vancouver, Canada (crazy theory 7/2/13) I explored some of the visuals to this in my previous cask 9 posts. Siwash Rock looks like the collar outline. I haven't found an exact match, but the lines inside the collar area that outline his neck look like they fit the main road pipeline and the small part that branches into the parking lot on the way to the Miniature railway. His hands are together and may be indicating prayer. The Trail and Shore book of poems and history on Stanley Park describes the custom of "the morning's sermon" as the reference for playing checkers on Sundays since the park had a rule allowing no other games to be played on Sundays. He has three distinct checkered areas on his robe and there are exactly three giant checkerboards. His shoulders fit the perspective of looking at the shelter above the checkerboards and bleachers as seen from the roadway. I'd call that a 99% match. I'm currently feeling sure of the Stanley Park location but I have to say I can't see where exactly to stand and which direction to count steps to the spot. I'm confused on whether "east steps" are different than "steps east", since in a different context, such as when talking about wind direction, an "east wind" is actually blowing in west.  Verse 10: It looks like Preiss simply found a way to put as many tourist markers from the map into his image and verse. I scanned my 1976 map of Stanley Park, not much has changed, except I don't think current maps mention the checkerboards( http://s11.photobucket.com/user/erexere/media/1976MapSP.jpg.html ).  In the shadow In the shadows, poem by Pauline Johnson, Native Indian poet whom has the only gravestone in Stanley Park. Of the grey giant The Hollow Tree, distinctive for being the oldest and biggest tree, although it's a mere shadow of it's former self. Find the arm that Extends over the slender path Lumberman's Arch, a section of tree extends over a path smaller than the main path which circles around Stanley Park. In summer You'll often hear a whirring sound Miniature Train, operates only in the summer and goes “around in circles”. Cars abound Although the sign Nearby Speaks of Indies native The natives still speak Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols. Harding Monument, a president's speech is honored by Kiwanis (native named organization: “[Harding] spoke words that are worthy of record in lasting granite.” (see page 73 for full quote) Take twice as many east steps as the hour Or more Nine O'Clock Gun, = 18 steps+ From the middle of one branch Of the v Look down And see simple roots In rhapsodic man's soil Checkerboards, checkerboards (one in the center with two branching off at angles forming a V). The pieces for these boards are kept in a nearby storage closet and were made from cross sections of old-fashioned irrigation pipe made of wood, and filled with resin. Like roots are for bringing water and nutrients from the soil to feed plantlife, these pieces were repurposed from pipes used to move water. Or gaze north Toward the isle of B. Girl in Wetsuit Gaze at bronze statue on a small isle of rock to the north of Stanley Park. Unveiled in 1972, she was inspired by the famous Dutch Copenhagen mermaid and commissioned by Douglas Brown. In the Chicago example, the first letter hints were attached to minor elements of the landscape, Mozart and Beethoven etched into a wall, and Lincoln's statue. The Girl in Wetsuit (Bikini) is similar to the Chicago setup. The plaque for this landmark doesn't have the name of Douglas Brown on it.  The only way I think a person would know about Douglas Brown is if they went to the Vancouver Maritime Museum where sits the Gateway to the Northwest Passage (square shaped sculpture that fits around the legeater). There a person might come across the fact that the Vancouver Harbor Improvements Society was created by Douglas Brown for the purpose of making the Girl in Wetsuit sculpture.Maybe this area around the checkerboards fits the rough shape of the hands turned upside down (not flipped, just turn your book upside down, the line along the forefinger looks unnatural, 
Urban Smurf fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 2, 2013 23:37
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Very Nice Eraser posted:"Although the sign nearby / Speaks of Indies native / The natives still speak / Of him of Hard words in 3 Vols." Is there a reason for everyone assuming Indies refers to native americans rather than say someone from the West Indies ?
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Jul 3, 2013 00:04
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Devyl posted:Haven't posted in this thread in a while... Has anyone found one yet? I have been out of the thread (not like I did poo poo) for a week... and I had a dream that NOLA was solved. This loving quest.
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Jul 3, 2013 00:07
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Devyl posted:Haven't posted in this thread in a while... Has anyone found one yet? Edit: Cosmik Debris posted:Hmm, interesting. Athena (or Minerva) is often depcited as an owl, and Owl's Head Park is an area I've had some interest in, as it's really the only place you could be on public land and look north to the Isle of B assuming that's Bedloe's island ie Liberty Island. GWBBQ fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 00:09
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jre posted:Is there a reason for everyone assuming Indies refers to native americans rather than say someone from the West Indies ? There have been lots of possible associations with "Indies native". Alexander Hamilton has been strong contender due to having been born in the West Indies. Several Native Americans have been proposed. Henry Hudson sailed for the Dutch East India Company. Someone even suggested it might refer to someone from Indiana. So no, no one is assuming it has to refer to anything in particular. The term can be believably stretched in many directions.
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Jul 3, 2013 00:15
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Supersonic posted:I was out walking on Peel Street today in Montreal when I noticed that the Montreal Athletics Association building also has some legeater style lamposts. I don't know how long the lamps have been there, but the MAA has been around since 1881. Peel is two streets away from Drummond (where the other legeaters are).
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Jul 3, 2013 03:25
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Typh posted:This would be interesting, but I'm almost certain that blurry picture is just a lamp with legs, not legeater legs. Are you certain? Looking forward to pictures. Yeah, from that it looks like there's legs, but no "eater," and it looks like the legs end in either clawed feet or animal heads(?) instead of hooves. Still, can't ever have too much information.
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Jul 3, 2013 05:11
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