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AtmaHorizon posted:Are you expecting people to be excited about everything course related? You missed my point. There are those that get what I'm trying to do. Number 1 I can understand. Number 2 I try explain as best I can and repeatedly ask if anyone can think of a reason why we'd be doing a particular exercise. Number 3 there isn't much I can do about other than to try and challenge the student (try it in second gear next time, try to use half the space, go slightly faster...) Number 4, whatever. I don't mind that for a lot of folks this is boring or they just may not care. That's not an issue. In class while I'm teaching please don't tell everyone that the only way to go around corners is to sit bolt upright on the bike, stick your knee out and wrench the bars in the direction you want to go because that whole counter steering thing they are trying to teach is just bullshit dontcha ya know.(yes I actually had a student tell this to the rest of the class this during a break) If you're bored in my class I'll notice. I'll make the attempt to get you involved. Some of the material, especially in the class, is very dry. I get that. Really all I ask is that they don't interrupt class or counter everything I say with something their uncle/grandfather/dad/best friend told you was the only way to do something and then tell me the class is just crap for asking you to try it "my" way. Ask questions, challenge me and my other coach, that shows me you're involved or at least have a vested interest enough to participate with the rest of the class.
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Jun 29, 2013 13:16
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| # ? May 29, 2024 18:14 |
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So I had my first riding class today. I had a total blast. Five people dropped their bikes and one guy rear ended another girl. I was kind of shocked how bad most of the people were on their bikes. The instructors seemed helpful though and I think everyone is sticking with it. A lot of the people were afraid to go higher than 10mph which kind of made a lot of the exercises seem pointless, but it was still fun. At one point I got yelled at for sticking my knee out on a somewhat quick turn. I asked why I couldn't do that and the instructor just said "it's an advanced riding technique" and gave me no real reason why I shouldn't be doing it. I was still leaning with the bike and countersteering. I don't really see what the harm in it was.
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Jun 30, 2013 00:47
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Play nice with the instructors. They will grade your driving test.
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Jun 30, 2013 02:50
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Partial Octopus posted:At one point I got yelled at for sticking my knee out on a somewhat quick turn. I asked why I couldn't do that and the instructor just said "it's an advanced riding technique" and gave me no real reason why I shouldn't be doing it. I was still leaning with the bike and countersteering. I don't really see what the harm in it was.
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Jun 30, 2013 05:17
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Stugazi posted:Play nice with the instructors. They will grade your driving test. I never argued with him and I followed his directions. I was just curious.
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Jun 30, 2013 05:46
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He probably thought you were pretending to try to drag a knee, and doing that when you're not wearing pucks is a really bad habit to get into
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Jun 30, 2013 05:49
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At the relatively slow speeds in the BRC courses, sticking your knee out may make you feel more comfortable but really just overbalances the bike in the direction you thrust your knee out to. It's not a terrible thing to do but is a bad habit on the street. Getting a knee down isn't just getting the bike over on it's side and puttin your knee out there. Your upper body needs to be in the proper position as well to get full/real benefits. If you're doing the double u-turn or other slow speed manuvering, putting a knee out will really hinder using counterbalance (as you usually put out the knee that's on the inside of the turn.) If you were in my class I'd ask why you're doing what you're doing and then try to explain the above. It's not something I'd get trippy over though.
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Jun 30, 2013 13:16
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Partial Octopus posted:At one point I got yelled at for sticking my knee out on a somewhat quick turn. I asked why I couldn't do that and the instructor just said "it's an advanced riding technique" and gave me no real reason why I shouldn't be doing it. I was still leaning with the bike and countersteering. I don't really see what the harm in it was. You can shift your weight and lean off the bike and corner just as sharply without putting a knee down as you could doing it - it's simply a sensory gauge to help you ride consistently on a track. When you wag your knee out at the BRC, you're sacrificing a lot of stability when you loosen your leg grip, and that can lead to bad riding habits. Riding instructors are there to reinforce good habits, not bad ones.
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Jul 2, 2013 17:49
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Woot, got my motorcycle licence today. The in-traffic driving went good, and the drat slow driving bit in the closed area went fine. This is the slow driving thing you have to do on the Norwegian test.  I was a bit worried about the slow driving thing because yesterday on my last practice session at the driving school I was using the low bike they had. All of them are BMW F800Rs, but one is extra lowered. I had soo much trouble compared to the regular height bike which I got to swap to, and I had a normal one on the test itself.
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Jul 3, 2013 13:14
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These are the low speed courses you get to do on the swedish test. The blue line isn't quite to scale though, you're allowed to go wide around the cones. This should be done at walking pace.
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Jul 3, 2013 14:32
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Passed my test on Sunday. Going out to get a brand new Repsol CBR250r on Friday.  . Would you guys recommend taking the BRC2 immediately after I get my bike?
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Jul 3, 2013 19:01
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BRC2 can't hurt but I'd advise watching Twist of the Wrist on Youtube 5 times and just riding your bike. BRC2 is mostly just more of standing in a parking lot with low speed drills like BRC1.
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Jul 3, 2013 19:42
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Do I have to be ATGATT while watching TOTW?
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Jul 3, 2013 19:53
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TOTW2 is mainly important for the survival reactions bit IMO. MSF doesn't cover that so much as I recall and it's good info. The rest of it is probably overkill for you at this time. For street riding I'd recommend this video. It's 99% good info about safely riding the street. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIWBZv45gqg There are actually 3 of them but I only found the first on youtube. If you search the usual places or where scallywags assemble you can find the other two I bet. Skreemer You might remember me posting a bit before about a friend getting back into riding? He was looking for a returning rider course but ended up signing up for a regular one since the returning rider's were rare. Well, he went to the classroom portion, then cause of a fight with his girlfriend he didn't make it to any of the riding portions. He's just picked up a bike and has given me a dozen excuses why the class wasn't that good and he doesn't need to schedule another one. I don't think I'm going to convince him at this point so it's whatever. My question to you is, what drills or things from the study book do you think are the most important things for him to practice again before he gets out too much? Frankly I expect him to spend 10 minutes in a parking lot before taking off, but I think if I give him some stuff to practice with and some cones he might put in a bit more lot time before going out. He took the class with me originally about 7 years ago, and I'm having trouble remembering what all the drills were. I know he remembers enough to know the parts of the bike and the basics of moving but I'm sure he's rusty as hell. edit: lookit that, nearly 7 years. 
nsaP fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 21:24
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I'm watching TOTW2 right now and it's the most cheesy video I've ever seen in my life. Really good lessons, but the experienced dude acts like david caruso and I keep expecting poo poo to explode behind him while The Who screams YYYYYYEEEAAAAAAHHHH in the background when he puts those shades back on. Actually now I kinda wish that'd happen. e: And the other two dudes are like in their own little motorcycle soap opera. "I have something to tell you... I'm.... I'm..... late on the throttle  "
M42 fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 21:33
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nsaP posted:TOTW2 is mainly important for the survival reactions bit IMO. MSF doesn't cover that so much as I recall and it's good info. The rest of it is probably overkill for you at this time. That video is pretty decent actually, and features Nick Ienatsch the author of Sport Riding Techniques.
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Jul 3, 2013 21:47
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I've never been able to watch the TOTW videos because they're just so bad. The book is great though.
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Jul 3, 2013 21:48
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Ah come on the cheesiness of TOTW2 is the best part. Watching that experienced rider try to act all suave when he's sweating like a pig and the wind's blowing his hair in his face...hilarious. And kids schooling riders on the side of the road...lol.
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Jul 3, 2013 22:05
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nsaP posted:
The big things for us is Braking, cornering and swerving. (to me in that order) Braking, (I'm doing this from memory so I might not have all of it correct) 70 - 80 feet of run up, timing marks, 20 feet after the timing marks are the cue cones. Start out, get up into second gear(only 12 - 18 mph), when the front tire gets to the cue cones start emergency braking. Come to a quick safe stop. The timing is the 20 feet between the timing marks and the cue cones... here are the times/stop feet. 0.72 - 0.75 20feet 0.76 - 0.79 18feet 0.80 - 0.84 16feet 0.85 - 0.90 14feet When coming to a stop, use both brakes, and make sure you get into first gear. Mainly make sure he can "panic stop" without breaking his rear end or locking up the front tire then breaking his rear end. Cornering, in the class we have a 135 degree decreasing radius corner that's 8 feet wide laid out for us. Basically it's an on/off ramp for most highways (at least in illinois where they always seem to wrap around or wrap back on themselves). Things to look for there are Entry speed, slow for your corner, looking where you want to go, pressing on the bars in the intended direction (counter steering) and steady or slowly increasing throttle all the way around.(Slow, Look, Press, Roll cornering method taught in the class.) Most single vehicle motorcycle accidents are going off in a corner so I grade that one kind of harsh. I know there are more advanced cornering techniques and trail braking and etc, and so on. These are just the things within the confines of the class. Swerving, get up to 12 - 18mph (again about 70 - 80 feet of run up) in second gear. Cue cones are 13 feet from the "back of the school bus". Don't swerve before the cones, maintain speed, keep body "upright" bike lean independent of body, don't brake until your swerve is complete and don't hit anything or run off the road.
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Jul 3, 2013 22:15
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Thanks for typing that out, emergency braking was on my list but not the others. The notes of what to look for are helpful for me too cause, as I told him, I can give him tips but I'm not an instructor and I don't know all the things you guys look out for.
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Jul 3, 2013 22:21
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After passing my MSF last July, I finally ventured out on the freeway today. I wasn't bothered by the speed, but man, the wind on a naked bike, it felt like I was going to fly off, especially when I turned my head and the wind caught my helmet. Hope it gets better the more I do it.
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Jul 6, 2013 20:55
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That's how it was on the freeway the first time for me, too. You stop noticing it after like, a week of freeway riding max.
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Jul 6, 2013 20:58
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Abe Froman posted:After passing my MSF last July, I finally ventured out on the freeway today. I wasn't bothered by the speed, but man, the wind on a naked bike, it felt like I was going to fly off, especially when I turned my head and the wind caught my helmet. Hope it gets better the more I do it. You'll get used to it. Also, it'll teach you real fast what a good fitting helmet feels like, as a good fitting helm will still pull your head to the side, whereas a bad fitting one will do that as well as slide around a bit.
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Jul 6, 2013 20:58
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And a really bad helmet will pop the visor open.
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Jul 7, 2013 02:08
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I passed last Saturday, made a couple mistakes but still now have my endorsement! There were 11 people for the re-take that day, I think only 3 or 4 (including me) passed. Nothing too exciting, one guy locked up a brake during the e-stop and almost dropped the bike, and there was some other bad riding. Now it's time to get out and ride! 
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Jul 7, 2013 06:20
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I've somehow never bothered to drive a manual car (lol) and don't have any experience with road bikes, but I've spent a good number of hours on trails on bikes up to a CRF150. Not busting out motocross Supermans here or anything but I feel totally comfortable hauling rear end through the woods and handling the clutch, downshifting for stops or steep inclines, throttle control, etc. Aside from that tiny difference of constantly having cars trying to murder me, will the experience with operation and recovery from loose gravel/hosed terrain translate well to street riding? Will that all fall into place during the MSF?
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Jul 11, 2013 18:29
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Riding dirt will give you an advantage in the class and the first bit will seem boring, but there is still stuff to learn from the street. You'll be bored when you're duck walking the bike across the lot to learn the clutch bite point, but swerving, emergency braking and turning will all be good plus you'll have someone there to help break the bad habits you picked up from the 150.
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Jul 11, 2013 18:46
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It will. Mostly because you're used to losing traction and actively trying not to fall down. That's helpful on the street because the occasional gravel patch or oil slick can get scary. Which causes the rider to think 'oh god I am going down', which is proceeded by them falling over because they didn't even try to work themselves out of the situation. Some good dirt experience where it's expected you will be falling down, and learning how to handle that is beneficial to every rider.
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Jul 11, 2013 18:47
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Abe Froman posted:After passing my MSF last July, I finally ventured out on the freeway today. I wasn't bothered by the speed, but man, the wind on a naked bike, it felt like I was going to fly off, especially when I turned my head and the wind caught my helmet. Hope it gets better the more I do it. Don't forget earplugs!
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Jul 12, 2013 01:31
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Halo_4am posted:It will. Mostly because you're used to losing traction and actively trying not to fall down. That's helpful on the street because the occasional gravel patch or oil slick can get scary. Which causes the rider to think 'oh god I am going down', which is proceeded by them falling over because they didn't even try to work themselves out of the situation. Agreed. After playing in the dirt losing a little traction because of gravel seems pretty ho-hum. The main difference is as you, petercodeine said, cars actively trying to murder you, which takes a different strategy than dodging trees, as you don't do little things to make sure the trees see you while preparing for the inevitability that they don't and jump out in front of you anyway. Also riding style will be different (like tucking and leaning into a turn on a sportbike vs getting on top and leg out on a dirtbike) and you'll want to learn about counter steering if nobody's ever explicitly explained it to you.
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Jul 12, 2013 05:14
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This past week / weekend my gf and I took the MSF BRC. We both did fine in the class but when it came to the range day she was having problems. She's just barely over 5 feet tall and on a heavy day might hit 100lbs. We found the shortest bike we could for her on the range, and she was doing ok at first, but she ran into problems turning the bike around after the power-walking. The bike was something like 290lbs. I was paying attention to my own bike, so I don't know exactly what happened but she ended up gently laying the bike down a few times and was dropped from the weekend. They said they're going to try and get a smaller bike for her and to come back this weekend for another shot. Is there anything that might help her get through this one small part? When she was moving on the bike, she was fine. And I know she'll get through the rest of the exercises. She's been a bit discouraged since we got home on Saturday, but really wants to learn to ride. She doesn't want to learn on the scooter because she wants to get used to shifting and everything as well. Any advice?
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Jul 15, 2013 21:14
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Practice, persistence, and not letting the bike get leaned over far enough in the first place to drop while it's stationary - are the keys. I suspect that outside a dirt bike (which should be lighter but also taller), it's going to be tough to find something easier to handle than a 290lb BRC beater. Did she ask the range instructor(s) for advice?
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Jul 15, 2013 23:26
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clutchpuck posted:Practice, persistence, and not letting the bike get leaned over far enough in the first place to drop while it's stationary - are the keys. I suspect that outside a dirt bike (which should be lighter but also taller), it's going to be tough to find something easier to handle than a 290lb BRC beater. Did she ask the range instructor(s) for advice? I'm honestly not sure. There was some conversation taking place but I haven't heard about any advice or suggestions that were given. I just talked to her about it done more and she says it was more when she was stopping after moving. To me it sends like that would be a sort of easy matter to fix and just try to get her left foot down a little sooner. Hopefully the instructors this weekend can get it sorted for her.
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Jul 16, 2013 01:24
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DiverTwig posted:I'm honestly not sure. There was some conversation taking place but I haven't heard about any advice or suggestions that were given. I just talked to her about it done more and she says it was more when she was stopping after moving. To me it sends like that would be a sort of easy matter to fix and just try to get her left foot down a little sooner. Hopefully the instructors this weekend can get it sorted for her. #1 make sure she isn't leaning to one side or the other as she slows (I've seen people do this and I can never get someone to articulate why.) #2 look out at the horizon and not down. (One of my speculations of #1 is that people are looking for the gear select to get into neutral or down at the brake lever) #3 make sure everything is squared up. Shoulders, bars, bike. #4 as you suggested foot down sooner, though that means getting it into neutral and coasting to an easy stop. (more than acceptable for the "clutch" exercises, for the stop/start exercises it's pull in the clutch and get into first gear.)
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Jul 16, 2013 03:07
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Foot down sooner helps, but the problem is that sometimes people put their foot down while they're still rolling, and their foot ends up behind their hips and it's really hard to balance. I know cause I did this. 
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Jul 16, 2013 06:48
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I passed along all the info and advice so far. She says thank you guys, and it turns out the range instructor was not offering any advice. Just helping her pick up the bike and roll it back into the line with the rest of us. The instructor did say that she liked the attitude that was being shown, and the eagerness to keep getting back on and keep trying, but I guess that was it. I don't know if it was a big class or what, there were 11 of us, and two instructors. We were split into two groups during the portion she was having problems with and our group only had 5 people. It's kind of frustrating to me that there she wasn't getting any advice about how to keep the bike up. Especially since later in the day the instructor said she'd been doing this for 18 years and was quitting soon. Makes me hope she's not there this weekend.
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Jul 16, 2013 17:02
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Yeah I think the instructors are supposed to be more interactive than that.
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Jul 17, 2013 03:19
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DiverTwig posted:I passed along all the info and advice so far. She says thank you guys, and it turns out the range instructor was not offering any advice. Just helping her pick up the bike and roll it back into the line with the rest of us. The instructor did say that she liked the attitude that was being shown, and the eagerness to keep getting back on and keep trying, but I guess that was it. That's an MSF rule. 6 students per instructor and no more than 12 on a range at one time (some places get around this by having many people in the classroom setting and then breaking up into multiple ranges.) That instructor may have had short timers disease or something. She really should have been offering advice and engaging the student with "learner centered" questions. At the very least advice, I would have offered extra help/practice either over lunch or after class... (We do have to keep moving but there's 25 minutes of time for that exercise.)
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Jul 19, 2013 01:54
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Took my BRC test this morning and failed  Not all that broken up about it because I hadn't actually planned on purchasing a bike for some time and just felt like taking the course for fun. I did totally fine in the u-turn and swerve but then on the braking portion I accidentally revved my engine while applying the brakes and I wound up slightly panicing and my stopping distance was way too long (like 25-30 feet instead of 15). Then I clipped the boundary coming out of the curve.I was getting more comfortable on a bike but I think failing was a blessing in disguise; I didn't really feel confident enough yet to ride on the road (especially in Chicago traffic). I'll try to take the course again in the spring (gently caress this heat) and I think I'll be able to pass then.
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Jul 21, 2013 17:21
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| # ? May 29, 2024 18:14 |
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I just signed my wife and me up for a course in Knoxville, TN in a few weeks (8/17-18 if anyone happens to be in position to join!). So excited to get out there with a new go pro and learn stuff. I definitely need the course for my own skills (I've only ridden <50cc mopeds for a few years and could certainly use the knowledge for an M license), but I'm very much looking forward to getting my wife through the safety course. I worry about her when we putz around on our 150cc scooters I bought a couple of weeks ago (I've only allowed her in the neighborhood/rural cabin roads <30mph), and I'm hoping this should decrease my fear of her riding a fair bit. I signed her up for a scooter, thinking that should be a little bit more comfortable on it, and I'll be on an actual shifting motorcycle for the first time. I can drive a stick, so it shouldn't be ALL foreign, but it'll definitely be new for me. I'll be sure to post a trip report on August 20th. 
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Jul 21, 2013 19:27
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