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BobTheJanitor posted:Of course, Tom is probably setting us up and will reveal something that makes me really care about her as a person soon. But until them, I'm hoping a piano falls on her. She could have the saddest backstory and I wouldn't give a poo poo past her interaction with Renard.
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Jul 5, 2013 19:04
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From a moral perspective, yeah, she's poo poo and needs to be killed presto. As a character, though, she's pretty interesting, if a little shallow at the moment.
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Jul 5, 2013 19:07
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MooCowlian posted:From a moral perspective, yeah, she's poo poo and needs to be killed presto. As a character, though, she's pretty interesting, if a little shallow at the moment. Shallow is right. I'm just not feeling it. And she doesn't understand Renard at all. We know Renard isn't going to say 'oh you know what I should kill Annie!' so it just feels like a somewhat pointless derail of the story. Hetty is a psychopath, but she's also a powerless doll whose only real cruel act we're aware of so far is mildly annoying a character we haven't met. It's hard to care about that. If she actually posed a real threat to someone we know, that would be interesting. If we had any reason to be sympathetic towards her, that would be interesting. But right now she's just a character out of nowhere dropped into the story when I really wanted to be hearing more about Renard's past motivations or seeing Kat and Paz blushing at each other or Parley, Annie, and Smitty planning to take on Jeanne or seeing anything involving Zimmy and Gamma or finding out what Annie is going to be doing as forest medium or learning more about what is going on in Ysengrin's head or or or or... I don't want to be the whiny entitled fan who thinks the story needs to go where I want it to go, far from it. I'm sure this apparent derail will lead somewhere interesting soon. Coming back and re-reading this chapter once it's done will probably be great. But right now, trapped between pages, it's leaving me annoyed. 
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Jul 5, 2013 19:33
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These interactions with Hetty do say something about Renard by acting as a foil for his situation. He could have just as easily been in the same situation as her, but instead of being under the thumb of some random jackass in the court he is bound to the person he literally cares most about in the world, Surma's daughter. Imagine how Renard would be if he was still under Jimmy Jim's thumb and was also a tiny stuffed wolf instead of a massive dragon guy. And if Annie wasn't around.
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Jul 5, 2013 19:46
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I find it rather odd that Renard hasn't given Hetty a massive verbal smackdown yet. I expected something a little stronger from him than "I can't harm her".
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Jul 5, 2013 19:46
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^ You gotta be ice cold to maintain your cred with Hetty, son. Renard didn't choose the possessed toy life, the possessed toy life chose him.
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Jul 5, 2013 19:58
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Daktar posted:^ You gotta be ice cold to maintain your cred with Hetty, son. Renard didn't choose the possessed toy life, the possessed toy life chose him. No actually he totally chose it. When he jumped into the doll, remember? That was him completely choosing the possessed toy life.
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Jul 5, 2013 20:08
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What makes Hetty interesting to me is that we're getting a peek at parts of the court we haven't seen yet. This is giving us a view into the wider court and some of the strangeness out there and some (one?) of the people there. Instead of throwaway references like the Cursed Teapot, this is us getting an expanded look at the Gunnerkrigg universe.
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Jul 5, 2013 20:23
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Potsticker posted:What makes Hetty interesting to me is that we're getting a peek at parts of the court we haven't seen yet. This is giving us a view into the wider court and some of the strangeness out there and some (one?) of the people there. Instead of throwaway references like the Cursed Teapot, this is us getting an expanded look at the Gunnerkrigg universe. I nearly made a post earlier where I was trying to articulate this, but poorly. I'm still not excited about Hetty's general attitude but her interaction with Renard is bringing us things we haven't seen before an I am curious about her backstory. Plus it's neat to see that Renard has a kinship with someone there that's unique to him and his situation, even if Hetty is like that weird cousin at family get-togethers.
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Jul 5, 2013 20:45
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I think Renard mostly hangs out with Hetty because of peer pressure. He doesn't have many friends, so when the cool dollkid on the block starts hanging around he puts on a tough persona. He just needs to watch a few Special Message episodes of Saved by the Bell.
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Jul 5, 2013 20:47
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I think that the fact she doesn't fit in with Renard much is interesting in itself. It's clear that he doesn't have a whole lot of friends like him, so maybe he's grouping up with the only other magic toy he can find in the same way that all the goons group together because then they can pretend to have friends like the popular kids.
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Jul 5, 2013 21:01
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Did everyone forget that Renard is a trickster spirit? Or was, I'm not sure--he might not be sure either. His level of involvement in Hettie's schemes is gonna speak volumes. Even if that's all we get out of Hettie as a character she'll earn her place in the cast and more besides.
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Jul 5, 2013 21:11
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Renard's sort of laconic responses to Hetty remind me of myself when I hang out with someone who I don't really want to explain myself to. Not usually psychopathic chucky dolls in my case, but then again I'm not a fox spirit trapped in a wolf doll either.
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Jul 5, 2013 21:33
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Hodgepodge posted:Renard's sort of laconic responses to Hetty remind me of myself when I hang out with someone who I don't really want to explain myself to. That's what I was feeling too! Thanks for pointing that out. Especially when you don't like the other person very much.
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Jul 5, 2013 21:43
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I wonder if Renard has known her long enough to have seen/met Adam. Maybe he's believing her side of the story but if he finds Adam is, like, eight years old, (or whatever age that sibling rivalry is still that strong) he'll realize she's just nuts.
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Jul 5, 2013 21:49
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Hodgepodge posted:Renard's sort of laconic responses to Hetty remind me of myself when I hang out with someone who I don't really want to explain myself to.
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Jul 5, 2013 22:29
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The Red Queen posted:I wonder if Renard has known her long enough to have seen/met Adam. Maybe he's believing her side of the story but if he finds Adam is, like, eight years old, (or whatever age that sibling rivalry is still that strong) he'll realize she's just nuts. I'm thinking he knew her before she got trapped in the doll, which might explain his patience with her. I'm surprised how much everyone assumes that Hetty does what she does because she's evil. We haven't met Adam yet. Although she does seem to enjoy tormenting him, Adam may very well deserve it.
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Jul 6, 2013 01:57
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schwenz posted:I'm thinking he knew her before she got trapped in the doll, which might explain his patience with her. It's hard not to think she's at least a bit evil when you see the two panels with her crazy face.
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Jul 6, 2013 02:02
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Also when her solution to other people's problems is murder.
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Jul 6, 2013 03:03
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If she just wanted to get away from Adam and killing him was the only way because dolls contracts etc. that would be one thing. Instead her plan is to torture him, essentially until she gets bored. I really don't see what he could have done to justify that.
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Jul 6, 2013 03:20
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Heavy Zed posted:If she just wanted to get away from Adam and killing him was the only way because dolls contracts etc. that would be one thing. Instead her plan is to torture him, essentially until she gets bored. I really don't see what he could have done to justify that. 
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Jul 6, 2013 03:33
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Elysiume posted:I'm guessing it has something to do with the fact that she's basically a slave. If someone trapped me in a doll body that forced me to obey their commands I wouldn't stop trying to kill or torture them. The problem with this is that it assumes that Hetty is a reliable source of information on herself. With the information given, I feel like Hetty probably deserved to get stuck in the doll, for whatever reason. However, we still don't know the full picture, so it's too early for final judgements.
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Jul 6, 2013 03:40
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BobTheJanitor posted:Hetty is a psychopath, but she's also a powerless doll whose only real cruel act we're aware of so far is mildly annoying a character we haven't met. It's hard to care about that. If she actually posed a real threat to someone we know, that would be interesting. If we had any reason to be sympathetic towards her, that would be interesting. 
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Jul 6, 2013 04:20
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Do people get this upset when the fairies show up? 'Cause, y'know, they're also goofy magic jerks who don't come with epic backstories about their painful childhoods or world-altering significance. Jesus christ. Hetty seems like she's supposed to be Joe Average Demon Doll, to show what Renard's like by contrast. Does a pretty good job. Don't really need to know the specifics of her life beyond that it broadly resembles his, which is good 'cause it looks like she's not telling.
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Jul 6, 2013 06:06
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Tubgirl Cosplay posted:Do people get this upset when the fairies show up? 'Cause, y'know, they're also goofy magic jerks who don't come with epic backstories about their painful childhoods or world-altering significance. Jesus christ. I already have a petition drafted up to have her removed from the canon. Hopefully Tom wont make a mistake like this again.
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Jul 6, 2013 06:16
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Also apparently Renard taking over Annie's body would have given him a huge boost of power, even more so than the dragon. So... let's see if she can figure out how to harness that.
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Jul 6, 2013 06:21
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Tubgirl Cosplay posted:Do people get this upset when the fairies show up? 'Cause, y'know, they're also goofy magic jerks who don't come with epic backstories about their painful childhoods or world-altering significance. Jesus christ. You don't understand, if she tells Renard to kill Annie and he does it the comic will be over and you know whose fault it will be for not saying something? It will be our fault
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Jul 6, 2013 07:45
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Tubgirl Cosplay posted:Do people get this upset when the fairies show up? 'Cause, y'know, they're also goofy magic jerks who don't come with epic backstories about their painful childhoods or world-altering significance. Jesus christ. No, I'm just saying I don't like the character that much. If she's a protagonist I want a reason to like her, if she's an antagonist I want a reason to dislike her. I'm not really feeling either. I'm sorry if you are pro-Hetty and I have insulted your lifestyle. Haledjian posted:You don't understand, if she tells Renard to kill Annie and he does it the comic will be over and you know whose fault it will be for not saying something? It will be our fault Also this. 
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Jul 6, 2013 08:04
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BobTheJanitor posted:No, I'm just saying I don't like the character that much. If she's a protagonist I want a reason to like her, if she's an antagonist I want a reason to dislike her. I'm not really feeling either. I'm sorry if you are pro-Hetty and I have insulted your lifestyle. Gunnerkrigg Court has no clearly defined antagonists.
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Jul 6, 2013 15:01
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Haledjian posted:You don't understand, if she tells Renard to kill Annie and he does it the comic will be over and you know whose fault it will be for not saying something? It will be our fault No, you don't understand, if he kills Annie then by right of battle Renard becomes the main character. 
Tubgirl Cosplay fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jul 6, 2013 |
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Jul 6, 2013 15:36
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I think the important point here isn't just about Hetty, and it's not to show that Renard is patient with her or his contrast with her, but it shows that he doesn't think ill of her, her character and her actions. It's a reminder that Renard is still a demon and despite his regrets for causing Daniel's death and his regret for trying to take over Annie he still doesn't think there's much wrong with attitudes like Hetty's. It's all normal for him.
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Jul 6, 2013 15:52
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I don't think he considers her attitude normal, considering how sparse his answers are. It seems more likely that he put up with er because he doesn't want to antoganize her, but really doesn't want to be her. At least so far.
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Jul 6, 2013 18:41
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Well he at least seems down with her plan to steal torture supplies. But maybe that's just because he loves defeating pitiful human locks.
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Jul 6, 2013 19:02
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My copy of Annie in the Forest just got here and everyone has great hair. That is all.
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Jul 6, 2013 19:22
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YF-23 posted:I think the important point here isn't just about Hetty, and it's not to show that Renard is patient with her or his contrast with her, but it shows that he doesn't think ill of her, her character and her actions. It's a reminder that Renard is still a demon and despite his regrets for causing Daniel's death and his regret for trying to take over Annie he still doesn't think there's much wrong with attitudes like Hetty's. It's all normal for him.
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Jul 6, 2013 19:48
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I'm kind of confused about how many people are saying that he's obviously on board. The fact he hasn't said much at all suggests to me that he doesn't like her plans, and is not enthusiastic. To me, it seems like he mostly just hangs around with her because there aren't any other possessed dolls around and either he wants another friend like him, or feels bad that she has none. Tagging along with weird people is pretty much the lot of those with no-one better. He doesn't have E/N to tell him she's toxic and he should sever.
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Jul 6, 2013 20:11
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MooCowlian posted:I'm kind of confused about how many people are saying that he's obviously on board. The fact he hasn't said much at all suggests to me that he doesn't like her plans, and is not enthusiastic. To me, it seems like he mostly just hangs around with her because there aren't any other possessed dolls around and either he wants another friend like him, or feels bad that she has none. Tagging along with weird people is pretty much the lot of those with no-one better. He doesn't have E/N to tell him she's toxic and he should sever. Yea, this is pretty much what I'm getting here. You guys do realize that Renard must be living a pretty lonely life without a lot of friends, right? When given the choice between hanging out with Hetty or sitting around doing nothing whenever Annie's not around he's gonna spend time with the only person in the court who doesn't think of him as "The Demon Renard" or "that rear end in a top hat who killed Danny and Sivo".
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Jul 6, 2013 20:25
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MooCowlian posted:I'm kind of confused about how many people are saying that he's obviously on board.
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Jul 6, 2013 20:58
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Look, he just likes to show off his lockpick skills okay?
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Jul 6, 2013 21:00
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dyzzy posted:Look, he just likes to show off his lockpick skills okay? Reynardine's lockpicking skills.
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Jul 6, 2013 21:28
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