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Who Killed WCW?
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Vince Russo
Jerusalem
View Results
 
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Snacksmaniac
Jan 12, 2008

Endless Mike posted:

Was Thunder the one where you did Street Fighter moves to do attacks?

The moves were far more obtuse even. The Acclaim games had some back, forward/down forward basic stuff, these move lists in Thunder make no sense.

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Zack_Gochuck
Jan 4, 2007

Stupid Wrestling People
Games of Thunder with friends always turned into a game of "Who's going to be cheap and bust out the Test of Strength first."

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.

Pope Corky the IX posted:

Was it Russo's influence that made the last(?) WCW video game take place entirely in the backstage area of an arena and never once in a wrestling ring?

Coincidentally, that was also the same game where you can play as Russo.

Hedgehog Pie
May 19, 2012

Total fuckin' silence.
Backstage Assault was the first time I rented a video game and felt, within minutes, how disappointed I was :(. WCW was the first promotion I got into due to Channel 5 showing those ridiculous Worldwide shows at 7pm on Fridays, so I was psyched for a new WCW game, particularly since I had had so much fun with the WWE Smackdown games. It was so bad.

I have fond memories of Mayhem though, even if it hasn't aged as well as Revenge/World Tour like folks have already said. Highlights included a look at how Goldberg REALLY ended up in WCW, unlocking Mean Gene and hearing his intro ("Now entering the ring... me!") and Tony and Brain mocking you when you did the same move over and over ("Wake up Brain! He's doing that move again!").

It was also, as far as I know, the only pro wrestling game where you could create wrestlers who were a.) completely invisible or b.) floating heads with invisible bodies.

triplexpac
Mar 24, 2007

Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you

Hedgehog Pie posted:

Tony and Brain mocking you when you did the same move over and over ("Wake up Brain! He's doing that move again!").


That's actually a clever way to encourage the player to mix up their moves! Try new stuff so you don't have the announcers mocking you

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 13, 2007

by Cyrano4747

Nilbop posted:

Wrestling in non-conventional settings is cool: fact

Proof: Austin vs Booker in the grocery store.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!
I remember how big fantasy wrestling leagues were during the Attitude Era; there were even software programs for generating matches. I designed the level for a group's "Brawl-Mart" PPV; you could get beaten with a lawn chair or slapped in the face with your own action figure.

What did the live audience see when they had matches in the back(stage/of a truck)?

The problem with King of the Road is that Darsow didn't go all the way with the gimmick. He should've challenged Dustin to a putting contest in the back of a truck the following week.

Gyro Zeppeli
Jul 19, 2012

sure hope no-one throws me off a bridge

Dickeye posted:

Proof: Austin vs Booker in the grocery store.

Even better proof: Crash Holly vs the Headbangers in Funtime USA.

Tokelau All Star
Feb 23, 2008

THE TAXES! THE FINGER THING MEANS THE TAXES!

triplexpac posted:

Which was the WCW game that had like 100 guys in it with really lovely movesets? Thunder?

I liked it because every single guy you beat the game with would unlock another guy

Are you thinking of WCW vs. The World?

I remember being mad that I couldn't be Rey Mysterio, but it's ok because there was a generic lucha dude named Habanero!

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010

Hedgehog Pie posted:

Backstage Assault was the first time I rented a video game and felt, within minutes, how disappointed I was :(. WCW was the first promotion I got into due to Channel 5 showing those ridiculous Worldwide shows at 7pm on Fridays, so I was psyched for a new WCW game, particularly since I had had so much fun with the WWE Smackdown games. It was so bad.

I have fond memories of Mayhem though, even if it hasn't aged as well as Revenge/World Tour like folks have already said. Highlights included a look at how Goldberg REALLY ended up in WCW, unlocking Mean Gene and hearing his intro ("Now entering the ring... me!") and Tony and Brain mocking you when you did the same move over and over ("Wake up Brain! He's doing that move again!").

It was also, as far as I know, the only pro wrestling game where you could create wrestlers who were a.) completely invisible or b.) floating heads with invisible bodies.

Mayhem had some decent game mechanics, it was like No Mercy on a budget with a WCW roster. But it was kinda lazy about move assignment which resulted in this gem: I was playing as Raven once, and I was wrestling Scott Norton. Norton gets me in the corner and lifts me to be seated on the top turnbuckle. I assume at the time, that he's either gonna superplex me or superbomb me. Nope.

He instead goes for a SUPER HURRICANRANA. I reverse it, thankfully, and turn into a superbomb. I probably could have pinned him right there, but after that, I choose to pick him up and Evenflow him whilst Bobby and Tony lose their poo poo as much as the pre-programmed commentary will let them over what just happened.

DeathChicken
Jul 9, 2012

Nonsense. I have not yet begun to defile myself.

I remember Thunder mainly for those video intros. They were all supposed to be telling you why you should pick the character...except for Scott Hall, who I guess got mixed up and started going on about how he was going to beat you up for picking him.

triplexpac
Mar 24, 2007

Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you

DeathChicken posted:

I remember Thunder mainly for those video intros. They were all supposed to be telling you why you should pick the character...except for Scott Hall, who I guess got mixed up and started going on about how he was going to beat you up for picking him.

Yeah... mixed up... that's what he was, mixed up.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
At 8 PM Eastern time we'll be watching WCW's Great American Bash 1996!

Come join the fun! See noted child murderer Chris Benoit face Kevin Sullivan in a legendary match! Get hyped for Fire and Ice as they take on The Steiner Bros. Thrill to Lex Luger as he challenges the Giant for the WCW World title! See Konnan take on The Non Union Mexican Equivalent of Ernest Miller! Dean Malenko vs Rey! The in Ring debut of Mongo! The Outsiders! Tony Schiavone, Dusty Rhodes, mayhem, Malic! WCW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://psp-tv.com/r/greatestnitroinhistoryofoursport

BE THERE

oatgan
Jan 15, 2009

alleged child murderer

Judeccahedron
Jan 2, 2009

rotinaj posted:

Jericho, Kidman, the British Bulldog and Jim Neidhart were in a stable? :psyduck:

(I know, they just didn't want to bother putting their music in)

Edit: The rants are amazing, especially the ones where the guy just doesn't get what the gently caress these things are supposed to be.

Another few funny things about that were Bret Hart and Bulldog saying "the WCW", Bulldog calling himself "British Bulldog" (which was trademarked by Titan Sports at the time), Nash's promo, and Alex Wright's promo (wouldn't "wictory" be more of a Russian stereotype?).

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Judeccahedron posted:

Another few funny things about that were Bret Hart and Bulldog saying "the WCW", Bulldog calling himself "British Bulldog" (which was trademarked by Titan Sports at the time), Nash's promo, and Alex Wright's promo (wouldn't "wictory" be more of a Russian stereotype?).

I am pretty sure Bulldog owned the rights to that name and had for a long time.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy

oatgan posted:

alleged child murderer

This, the man was convicted of no crimes.

Tasoth
Dec 13, 2011

Judeccahedron posted:

Another few funny things about that were Bret Hart and Bulldog saying "the WCW", Bulldog calling himself "British Bulldog" (which was trademarked by Titan Sports at the time), Nash's promo, and Alex Wright's promo (wouldn't "wictory" be more of a Russian stereotype?).

Russian has a V sound but no W, so I don't think. But I'm not an expert.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
GAB 96 was a great show.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

MassRafTer posted:

GAB 96 was a great show.

It was pretty drat good, yeah. (that's the one we just watched, right? :ohdear:)

Q_res
Oct 29, 2005

We're fucking built for this shit!
Yeah, GAB 96 was what we watched tonight.

So, how many weeks until we get to Bash at the Beach?

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Q_res posted:

Yeah, GAB 96 was what we watched tonight.

So, how many weeks until we get to Bash at the Beach?

Three weeks. There are 3 Nitros between now and then so I'll do two Nitros next week and then a Nitro and something else in two weeks.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

It's crazy how small Rey was, I always forget how he bulked the gently caress up in WWE. It's also crazy how good he has always been and still is.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy
Retro observer love:

quote:

Supposedly Hogan said "No more jobs."

:lol:

Also is that that Chad Brock that got a try out for WCW?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc9LcsNDly0

quote:

On 4/22, Bischoff said that Benoit had been eliminated from the tournament by Otani in Japan and then ran down a bunch of reasons like jet lag and late phone calls that made him look like more of a whiner than Vince McMahon ever has. Five days later, they aired Benoit vs. Wright and announced the winner would go to Japan to compete in the finals of the tournament and of course, Benoit, who was announced as having been eliminated and already come back from Japan a few days earlier, was announced as going to Japan. Of course the double elimination stuff has never been hinted at again either.

quote:

The reason all the tapings during a three-week period from mid-July through early August will be at Disney is because of the Olympics. All the Turner trucks will be covering the Olympics in Atlanta and basically much of the TV operations are being shut down. WCW didn't want to shut down because it would kill momentum is a competitive wrestling war, so they had to go to Disney since it had its own equipment and do all its taping there, but they'll go back to arenas after the Olympics.

quote:

Expect WCW to fairly quickly go to Hogan vs. Scott Hall and Giant vs. Kevin Nash feuds before the inevitable Giant-Hogan.

Plans change Dave.

edit:

quote:

Lots of things went on when you pack two dozen wrestlers and keep them together for a 17-day tour as you can imagine. Diesel and Ramon were flagrantly breaking every company rule they could in full view of everyone. There was tremendous heat on Michaels and Helmsley in particular. Apparently there were guys who actually wanted to deck Michaels but had to be talked out of it because with Michaels position, it would cost them their job. Sunny left the tour early because she was ribbed to death including someone taking a dump in her food at one point. Apparently Chris Candito, who didn't leave early, was also being teased and harassed to death by the big boys who acted like school children. There's some sort of romantic triangle, which would be nobody's business except when Sunny had to leave the tour, it becomes business and not personal. Sunny has a lot of heat since she isn't shy about giving her opinion in a business where most won't say anything except behind people's backs. Supposedly Bret Hart was fed up with what happened and it made him feel even more strongly than he did before the tour, even though the consensus still is that he'll be coming back in about five months.

We all knew about it before, but still :staredog:

algebra testes fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Jul 10, 2013

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
Joe Silva got called out in this issue so I hope we get a rebuttal next week. Or a Joe Silva review of UFC 9.

Strenuous Manflurry
Sep 5, 2006

THE END
From a Raw taping for 5-13-1996

quote:

McMahon interviewed Undertaker and Bearer, who came out with a casket with Goldust's name on it for their casket match on the PPV. When Goldust came out a second time, the whole place exploded with the "human being" chants (they did that on the PPV as well). Goldust started pawing at Undertaker, but Undertaker stopped him and they had a stare down. Mankind attacked Undertaker and did the mouth hold on him do paralyze him. With Taker out, Goldust got on top of him and started making out with him including licking his leg going up with the idea he was going to start sucking him. Goldust started rubbing his own crotch before moving in for the kill when Undertaker sat up and Goldust got out of there. I was told this angle was far far beyond anything that has ever been done before and the fans were literally stunned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGfQYFgxWiQ

Jesus. Looks like they edited out the kiss, if Dave's review is right, but god drat.

Punch McLightning
Sep 19, 2005

you know what that means




Grimey Drawer
"Supposedly Hogan said "No more jobs.""

What jobs did he actually do?!

DeathChicken
Jul 9, 2012

Nonsense. I have not yet begun to defile myself.

Goldberg, Luger, Sting...kind of. Jarrett, kind of. Oh, and Piper.

Punch McLightning
Sep 19, 2005

you know what that means




Grimey Drawer

DeathChicken posted:

Goldberg, Luger, Sting...kind of. Jarrett, kind of. Oh, and Piper.

I mean at that point of time, where he'd be swearing to not job again. None of those count; he lost the WCW World title to The Giant by DQ in October 1995, but that's it that I can easily find.

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010

Rodney the Piper posted:

"Supposedly Hogan said "No more jobs.""

What jobs did he actually do?!

He lost to Arn Anderson. And there was the goofy title switch to the Giant where hen lost via DQ and Jimmy Hart screwed him.

ThatCguy
Jan 19, 2008

LordPants posted:


Also is that that Chad Brock that got a try out for WCW?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc9LcsNDly0


Yes. (See what I did there?)

They even mentioned his brief WCW Tenure when that song came out and he played it on a Nitro.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Rodney the Piper posted:

"Supposedly Hogan said "No more jobs.""

What jobs did he actually do?!

He did two Hulk Hoganesque jobs to Arn after a Billionaire Ted skit accused him of having it in his contract that he didn't have to do jobs.

Punch McLightning
Sep 19, 2005

you know what that means




Grimey Drawer

MassRafTer posted:

He did two Hulk Hoganesque jobs to Arn after a Billionaire Ted skit accused him of having it in his contract that he didn't have to do jobs.

That's Perfect Hogan.

Street Horrrsing
Mar 24, 2010

Godwalker of The Grateful Prisoner



MassRafTer posted:

Joe Silva got called out in this issue so I hope we get a rebuttal next week. Or a Joe Silva review of UFC 9.

Can anyone post this passionate defense of ken shamrock ahah.

Tato
Jun 19, 2001

DIRECTIVE 236: Promote pro-social values
Were those losses back to back? I wonder what the highest number of losses in a row Hogan ever got was once he made it big, it couldn't be more than 2 or 3

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!

Tato posted:

Were those losses back to back? I wonder what the highest number of losses in a row Hogan ever got was once he made it big, it couldn't be more than 2 or 3

Yep.

Matlock
Sep 12, 2004

Childs Play Charity 2011 Total: $1755

Rodney the Piper posted:

"Supposedly Hogan said "No more jobs.""

So what you're saying is that in 1996, Hulk Hogan created an alternate reality that resulted in the reduction of the wrestling fan population from millions to hundreds?

triplexpac
Mar 24, 2007

Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you

Matlock posted:

So what you're saying is that in 1996, Hulk Hogan created an alternate reality that resulted in the reduction of the wrestling fan population from millions to hundreds?

I had this same thought haha

I wish I had the talent to illustrate a Hogan No More Jobs comic strip

Matlock
Sep 12, 2004

Childs Play Charity 2011 Total: $1755

triplexpac posted:

I had this same thought haha

I wish I had the talent to illustrate a Hogan No More Jobs comic strip

I think the only one who could do it proper respect would be KC Green.

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MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

BAEST MODE!!!
The most important Observer quote was skipped:

quote:

Steiners beat Ice Train & Scott Norton in 3:29 of a match that was very good while it lasted. Ice Train has really improved at least when it comes to timing. In a match that short, you really don't know what he can actually do when it comes to working although even in this brief time you can see he's improved a lot.

And here's the Pancrase letter:

quote:

In response to Joe Silva's letter in the 4/29 Observer, the difference in how Pancrase looks as compared to UFC is because Pancrase is a sport with extensive rules while UFC is bare knuckled combat fighting. Many fans still mix them up. The small rule differences in what makes the match look so diverse. Because they look different, people then begin to suspect faking.

Rules are made to make things a trade off between wrestling and kick boxing. Since Pancrase is a wrestling based total fight, they choose to wear shoes but because of that there are many restrictions applied. The Pancrase rule book is several pages long and very meticulously detailed. The PPV show failed to explain the rules in depth, one of which is kicking with the toe being illegal.

An interesting note about knockdowns with slaps. Tokyo University conducted a scientific study about the effectiveness of blows such as punches, kicks, slaps, etc. for national television. The results were surprising. Open hand blows have equal power as punches and can knock out an opponent about as frequently. Many martial artists don't realize that.

The Japanese martial arts community and journalists generally believe the following:

Pancrase should be classified as a shoot group since only a few matches are suspicious of being worked. While Pancrase doesn't fix the finishes as to who wins or loses, every match has a theme as a professional bout and the matchmakers have given instructions to the fighters in regard to that theme. If you say that means it's a work, then I would say Pancrase is a pro wrestling organization. An example of a theme match. On the 1/28/96 show, Ken Shamrock vs. Yoshiki Takahashi did a standing only match with no ground work. It may have been a wide decision not to air that match on the first U.S. PPV since a UFC fan would expect to see Shamrock dominate using ground techniques. The match was a shoot, but not a complete match under Pancrase rules.

UWFI is strong style pro wrestling and proud of being such. Only a few of the 300 plus matches were true shoots. Even the famous Nobuhiko Takada vs. Koji Kitao match on 10/23/92 was a work, however Takada's intentional high kick knockout finish was a shoot.

RINGS is somewhere in the middle. At least one undercard match every card is a total shoot. Akira Maeda and the top foreign fighters matches are all works. From 3/25/96, when Yoshihisa Yamamoto took over for Maeda as the top star with Maeda out of action with a knee operation, the style was changed to be closer to Pancrase. More than half the matches on that show including Yamamoto's main event match were shoots. A new chapter in Rings has begun.

Unlike UFC undercard fighters, all Pancrase fighters are master of defensive techniques. Besides the rule differences, such as no punching to the head from the mount position and from behind, makes Pancrase as a sport very different from UFC. It requires different strategy and in Pancrase, it is far easier to avoid being choked out.

Like Pancrase, K-1 kick boxing also consists of about 20 kick boxers and karate champions who rotate fighting one another. Every new sport starts with a small exclusive group of competitors. Pancrase has a very open policy, however the skill level of even the preliminary wrestlers are much higher than even UFC. There are very few fighters who can even pass the entrance exam and the training is grueling to make it. Remember that one fighter died in the UWF dojo as well as in the New Japan dojo because they train so hard.

The Pancrase salary system is one of the reasons they call themselves professional wrestlers.

The definition of what exactly constitutes 100% real may vary by the person, and Pancrase itself acknowledges it is not a squash shoot. But for those who followed the UWF movement in Japan since the mid-80s, Pancrase is the final chapter in the book from working to legitimate pro wrestling. A clear line can be drawn between UWFI, Rings and Pancrase. Winning and losing have never been predetermined in Pancrase, although some entertaining and showboating maneuvers certainly exist within the body of the match.

I believe Pancrase is a more sophisticated and more civilized format of combat sport than UFC and is the future of this type of sport. The Japanese government and police would never allow a UFC event in Japan. Even Japanese Vale Tudo fights have more than ten types of attacks banned and the fighters wear gloves.

UFC will become closer and closer to Pancrase every time out in terms of unadvertised and unwritten rules and format, such as eventually creating a decision system and in time management.

The Bart Vale vs. Ken Shamrock match was in Ken's Fujiwara-Gumi days before Pancrase. I'm personally a big fan of Nobuhiko Takada and UWFI and also of Rings. Both are definitely more entertaining then Pancrase.

One of the reasons why New Japan banned Weekly Pro Wrestling is because of its extensive coverage of Pancrase, which has broken kayfabe by not fixing the results of its matches. Booker Riki Choshu hates the concept of Pancrase.

Tadashi Tanaka

New York, New York

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