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I hope that they make the AI smarter when you try to gift them good provinces. I shouldn't have to pay $4000 gold to give Brandenburg back to Prussia 
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Jul 15, 2013 05:04
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Koramei posted:Also maps for all the factions vanilla rots and fots if anybody is curious. Strangely I almost never see Honma conquered, they usually sit on their island cut off from all relations on the lower difficulties or become a massive powerhouse in the higher ones. Thanks man, that's actually a really well done map. It looks like for my first few play-throughs the Satami I think, wiped them out then were cleared from the mainland. So odd. Edit: My B, it was actually Asai ozzy8bats fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jul 15, 2013 |
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Jul 15, 2013 05:41
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Ghost of Babyhead posted:I think its kind of amusing when that happens, since you can end up with dramatically different-looking campaigns every time. I was surprised when I played Shogun 2 (having not played a TW game since Medieval 2) at how the "important" factions were being wiped out and random unplayable ones were setting up huge empires. I think it'd be pretty interesting to have, say, the Carnutes take over all of Gaul, or the Boii do the same for Germania. I love this sort of thing too in Shogun. I hope it's in full force in Rome 2 - I want the Etruscan Empire to become dominant in the peninsula and start conquering everywhere.
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Jul 15, 2013 09:33
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Ragingsheep posted:I hope that they make the AI smarter when you try to gift them good provinces. I shouldn't have to pay $4000 gold to give Brandenburg back to Prussia Just another way Total War could learn from Paradox games. In Paradox games, countries have "core provinces", which are provinces they get 100% of the resources from, and which have basically no chance to revolt. Take somewhere that isn't your core and you get less resources from it, and they have a higher chance to revolt. As a result, cores are valuable and you have a number of ways of regaining them if you lose them (the most obvious being a diplomacy-hit-free war declaration). The system wouldn't really work for Shogun, where everyone basically has the right to own everywhere, but it would work well for settings like Empire or Napoleon where everyone realises that say, a British occupation of all of mainland France is a temporary and hard-to-maintain situation.
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Jul 15, 2013 12:28
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Of all the ways that Empire is terrible, being not enough like a Paradox game is most certainly not one of them.
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Jul 15, 2013 13:04
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shalcar posted:Of all the ways that Empire is terrible, being not enough like a Paradox game is most certainly not one of them. Your right it is not limited to empire.
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Jul 15, 2013 14:11
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shalcar posted:Of all the ways that Empire is terrible, being not enough like a Paradox game is most certainly not one of them. A Paradox game with Total War battles would be badass and you know it.
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Jul 15, 2013 14:19
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Total War: Crusader Kings. GOTY 2015
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Jul 15, 2013 14:43
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With tactical battles for every rebel super-stack that shows up? No thanks.
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Jul 15, 2013 14:49
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Bloodly posted:With tactical battles for every rebel super-stack that shows up? No thanks. And super-stacks only show up if you've managed to drive your economy into the ground or decided to randomly imprison a vassal or somesuch anyways, so 
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Jul 15, 2013 14:58
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I know most of the people are posting here in jest, but the fact of the matter is that it wouldn't work in the context of either game, as despite the fact they both share Grand Strategy, one is a God General Simulator and the other is a Political Machiavellian Simulator, either of which would be weakened by core mechanics from one to the other. Would the battle be spectacular? Of course the battles would be spectacular, spectacular battles is literally the entire point of Total War where the campaign is an engine to get you to those battles. Adding them would severely weaken several key concepts of Paradox games and so it will never be added. For similar reasons adding core elements of Paradox games into Total War would serve to get in the way of making those spectacular battles and so won't be added for similar reasons. Lime Juice might be tasty and Cream might be tasty but that doesn't mean a blend of the two will be even more tasty.
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Jul 15, 2013 15:09
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I've never tasted lemon juice cream but I'm going to keep shouting loudly that I really want it.
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Jul 15, 2013 15:12
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Ofaloaf posted:Auto-resolve that stuff, then. Yes, I am going to autoresolve the death stacks 
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Jul 15, 2013 15:20
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I don't want paradox in my total war game, I just want to watch pixel mans die when my Vic/CK2 armies go into battle. Watching numbers is pretty boring!
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Jul 15, 2013 15:21
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Victor Vermis posted:I don't want paradox in my total war game, I just want to watch pixel mans die when my Vic/CK2 armies go into battle. Watching numbers is pretty boring! I can understand and sympathise with that, but this is the Total War Megathread and not really the place to discuss would should or should not go in Paradox games.
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Jul 15, 2013 15:35
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Here is a new screenshot of what looks like a Roman encapment , I wonder if this means that forts will be back. 
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Jul 15, 2013 15:44
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Lord Tywin posted:Here is a new screenshot of what looks like a Roman encapment , I wonder if this means that forts will be back. I think I read somewhere about armies being able to use defensive mode as opposed to the forced march ability. The Romans would build a fort/fortified camp while other factions would be restricted to field fortifications. It's been a while since I read about that so I could have gotten some parts mixed up.
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Jul 15, 2013 16:26
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I played through all of Napoleon's campaigns and the Great Britain Spanish Peninsula campaign in N:TW and really liked them. I'm trying to give Shogun 2 vanilla another go, and I'm tactically having a very hard time. Maybe I just don't understand the units. I'm playing as the Chosokabe and it appears that my neighbors have all turned into large-empire toughguys with full stacks roaming the land. Once I get in battle, I have a very hard time winning battles if the little slider shows me at any kind of disadvantage. Are there any tips you can share about babby's first tactics in Shogun 2? It seems like light cavalry are not very useful, as they die super quickly to yari troops and generals, which comprise 80% of enemy stacks. Same story with matchlocks. Katana samurai seem to ruin the yari troops pretty well, but their units are so expensive and so small. Should my archers be raining death down on units engaged in melee? Sieges are terrible, especially before I research the extra ammunition for archers art.  At least the naval battles are more fun.
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Jul 15, 2013 16:58
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canyoneer posted:Are there any tips you can share about babby's first tactics in Shogun 2? You're right about light cav. Cav in shogun isn't as strong as cav in any other total war game. Light cav should be used for scouting and harassing their archers but it isn't good for much else in single player. And yari troops are spears so any cav is going to die quickly to them. Matchlocks can do a lot of damage once you get the hang of using them. Once the fight starts move them to a flank or on a hill where they have good line of sight on an enemy. But they're probably just supplemental unless you're playing as the Otomo. Katana samurai are expensive but eventually you're going to want them to be the core of your armies. Some spears to deal with their cavalry, some bows for some ranged damage and then katana to mop up everything else. Maybe a few more bows than normal since you're Chosokabe. Vanilla archers are a little underpowered, except maybe the Daikyu samurai or bow warrior monks because of their extra range. They need time to get their koku's worth of kills so you'll need good melee to keep the fight going. Yari ashigaru can do this in spear wall. Don't underestimate them just because they're cheap. Heir of Carthage's youtube videos are good for teaching new players if you want a video tutorial. He isn't the best but he's good at explaining what he's doing and why.
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Jul 15, 2013 17:14
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Gort posted:A Paradox game with Total War battles would be badass and you know it. Crusader Kings 2 with Medieval 2 battles would be the best game Personally though I actually enjoy the campaigns in Napoleon:TW more than I enjoy the Victoria series, which is very tedious and work-like IMO Earwicker fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jul 15, 2013 |
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Jul 15, 2013 17:41
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Light cav are also useful for chasing down broken units to keep them from reforming. They should basically never make a frontal charge, but iirc they do give the "fighting cavalry" morale debuff for infantry. A lot of winning fights in Shogun 2 is managing morale. Make sure your units aren't tired, keep your line solid enough to avoid the "exposed flank" debuff, and inflict penalties on the opponent instead. It's been a while since I've played, but I think most factions' starting roster tends toward yari and bow ashigaru and yari samurai. Until you get access to better troops, try peppering opposing ashigaru with the bows while they close with your yari ashigaru. Once a battle line forms, send your yari samurai around the flank and rear of one of the enemy wings (you can use their speed burst ability if necessary). Ashigaru fold quickly when under attack from multiple sides; once one wing breaks, the remainder are likely to follow in a chain rout.
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Jul 15, 2013 17:43
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shalcar posted:Lime Juice might be tasty and Cream might be tasty but that doesn't mean a blend of the two will be even more tasty. But you just described the main ingredients for key lime pie
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Jul 15, 2013 17:43
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You guys don't like light cavalry? I think they're the most useful cavalry type in the game by far- yari and donderbuss are the only other ones that are decent at all. They're terrible at fighting even the cheapest enemy infantry sure, but they annihilate opposing cavalry- generals included (you must have had a weird experience canyoneer, a light cav will easily beat a mounted general unless it's practically fully leveled), and then when your infantry routs the other army they can chase them down. Considering how cheap they are your army should nearly always have a few units of them in it. And katanas are great but I would say your core should be made of naginatas- despite what the description says, they're hardly worse against cavalry than yaris, and their extra defence means they can hold out well against arrows and swords too. Katanas are much better as shock troops to flank while the rest of your army holds or to reinforce points where the naginatas are faltering.
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Jul 15, 2013 18:08
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Koramei posted:You guys don't like light cavalry? I think they're the most useful cavalry type in the game by far- yari and donderbuss are the only other ones that are decent at all. They're terrible at fighting even the cheapest enemy infantry sure, but they annihilate opposing cavalry- generals included (you must have had a weird experience canyoneer, a light cav will easily beat a mounted general unless it's practically fully leveled), and then when your infantry routs the other army they can chase them down. Considering how cheap they are your army should nearly always have a few units of them in it. Yari cav are basically the better version of light cav, with more men per unit to boot. Don't use light cav unless you are stuck in the early game as Takeda or something. Gort posted:A Paradox game with Total War battles would be badass and you know it. A Paradox game with Total War battles would be trivial and you know it.
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Jul 15, 2013 18:23
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Yeah, light cavalry also get a sizeable charge bonus which makes them effective against even spear-armed infantry if you charge them into the rear or flanks of already-engaged troops.
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Jul 15, 2013 18:26
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Yari cav are basically the better version of light cav, with more men per unit to boot. Don't use light cav unless you are stuck in the early game as Takeda or something. Also incredibly important breaking news:  Shogun 2 has trading cards now I know I for one am extremely excited about this.
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Jul 15, 2013 18:39
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I dunno, I kind of prefer TW to Paradox, I mean not that I don't enjoy playing Crusader Kings, its just that it is frequently bullshit about what kills you. At least in Rome I assume people are going to die of actual old age instead of "your 30, enjoy your random death!". Plus, I don't know paradox feels a bit too big, once you've got an empire going it really is just so dull keeping it updated, and there is no real wiggle room to make yourself that different from any of the other empires that show up, your still a terrible bastard sacking cities and murdering children for no reason other than land. At least in Rome you made the choice to build the slave pens.
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Jul 15, 2013 18:42
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Just ordered the Gold Edition of Shogun 2 for $34 off of Amazon. I could have bought Shogun 2 and ROTS / FOTS (are these the same thing? I don't know!) for $15 on the Steam Summer sale, but due to lovely Middle-Eastern bandwith caps, I can't download 15gigs of some beautiful Total War. So I paid twice the price for a hard copy so I don't have to waste a tonne of my bandwith cap. Feel a bit bitter about having to pay twice the price, but what can I do.
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Jul 15, 2013 18:45
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Koramei posted:They're twice as expensive, much harder to come by (the ai likes making stables with nothing else a lot), slower, and only barely win against light cav. Now yeah, they're great against infantry, but that requires an army tailored towards them, whereas light cavalry fit in every situation and are so expendable and cheap you might as well always make them. None of that is true. Yari cavalry are exactly as fast as light cav, have double the bonus against cavalry, and aren't great against infantry at all. Light cavalry has a niche in being the early-game cavalry unit, but continuing to use them is a waste of a unit slot. I mean it when I say yari cavalry is an upgraded version of light cavalry. Lights are worse in every single way. You're probably thinking of katana cavalry. Edit: If your cav strat is to hide the horses in a forest and then beeline for the general, I guess light cav is good enough. Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jul 15, 2013 |
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Jul 15, 2013 18:58
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Josef bugman posted:I dunno, I kind of prefer TW to Paradox, I mean not that I don't enjoy playing Crusader Kings, its just that it is frequently bullshit about what kills you. At least in Rome I assume people are going to die of actual old age instead of "your 30, enjoy your random death!". Plus, I don't know paradox feels a bit too big, once you've got an empire going it really is just so dull keeping it updated, and there is no real wiggle room to make yourself that different from any of the other empires that show up, your still a terrible bastard sacking cities and murdering children for no reason other than land. Oh, I'm not saying, "Make Total War equal to Paradox", I just reckon they could take some cues from it, same as Civilization games. Cassus belli and infamy mechanics (IE: You have to have a reason to declare war or you take a big diplomacy hit, and if you expand too quickly you take a big diplomacy hit which often lands you in a lot of wars) would be other good ones to take. As it is in Total War you often end up at war with people for little reason than that you share a border, and everyone hates you after a while for the crime of successfully playing the game.
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Jul 15, 2013 19:05
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Gort posted:As it is in Total War you often end up at war with people for little reason than that you share a border, and everyone hates you after a while for the crime of successfully playing the game. How is this different to CK2 exactly? Except that with CK2 the people that hate you are in your own realm ofc.
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Jul 15, 2013 19:20
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:None of that is true. Yari cavalry are exactly as fast as light cav, have double the bonus against cavalry, and aren't great against infantry at all. Light cavalry has a niche in being the early-game cavalry unit, but continuing to use them is a waste of a unit slot.  . For every yari cav you can make, you can make 2 light. Light are half as expensive in cost, in upkeep, in production, and are much easier to acquire. Unless you're playing multiplayer, "waste of a unit slot" is not a thing. When the hell are you walking around with 40 unit armies? That's pointless in nearly every situation, even in legendary.And I guess I can test it out, but I'm pretty sure light cavalry still perform well against yari cavalry- unless the yari make a killer charge, they'll either lose or take massive casualties, since they're awful in sustained melee. But that's beside the point, because light still murder every other type of cavalry there is. It's like the difference between naginata and yari infantry- yeah, yari are slightly better against cavalry, but there is basically no situation where naginata are going to fail. And yari cav are fantastic against infantry, are you kidding? They're one of the best anti-infantry units in the game. With a gold charge bonus they can flatten most units in a single charge, it's like playing M2 again. Unless you are 1. playing multiplayer or 2. using an army with a ton of cavalry, having a few light cav in your army is almost always the way to go. Even when you have yari cavalry to hammer/anvil, using them against other cavalry instead of infantry is just asking to lose half your unit and all the punch in the charge.
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Jul 15, 2013 19:37
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Gort posted:As it is in Total War you often end up at war with people for little reason than that you share a border, and everyone hates you after a while for the crime of successfully playing the game. Sounds like a pretty accurate rendition of much of history
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Jul 15, 2013 19:46
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You can waste unit slots by using poor units? I can't access the in-game encyclopedia right now, but this online version should be accurate. http://www.totalwars.ru/encyclopedia/units/cav_spear_yari_cavalry.html http://www.totalwars.ru/encyclopedia/units/cav_spear_light_cavalry.html Look at those stats. There is no facet where yari cavalry does not win out. Light cav even has 75% as many men as other cavalry units, so there isn't even numbers to make it up. Are you playing with the battle difficulty on easy? Most players do not have a lot of cavalry in their army. When you don't have a lot of a decisive unit, you generally want its representatives to be as effective as possible. Why would you use the worst cavalry unit in the game to be your cavalry arm? Edit: I am positive that you have confused yari and katana cavalry with each other. Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jul 15, 2013 |
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Jul 15, 2013 19:48
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They cost half as much in upkeep and good tactics make up for the unit being "poor". Later on in realm divide, cost becomes massively important as my economy is always on the line. I don't usually use more than one unit of cav in my armies because I let the infantry do a lot of the work, light cav are more than good enough for the role I use them in, which is chasing down fleeing infantry and surprise bonking a general. E: Also scaring the crap out of their infantry when a unit that has given up next to them is suddenly cut to pieces in about a second. dogstile fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jul 15, 2013 |
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Jul 15, 2013 19:53
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^^yeah, if cost wasn't a factor I'd agree with him, but it is. Like, a huge factor. Are you playing radious' mod or something, Slim Jim Pickens?Slim Jim Pickens posted:You can waste unit slots by using poor units? I can't access the in-game encyclopedia right now, but this online version should be accurate. Shogun 2 is much more transparent than the older games, but there are still a bunch of hidden stats. Yari might well trounce light (although I still don't think they do- I'll test it in a minute), but the encyclopedia isn't what you should be going on to determine which units you want to use. Especially with cavalry when stuff like unit size comes into play. And most of my games are set on hard or legendary thank you very much .And I don't understand what you're trying to say in your second point at all. No I don't care if my cavalry are as effective as possible, I'm not playing the Muromachi Period Equestrian Championship Simulator, every unit has a role that is counteracted by its price. Yari cav are twice as expensive as light cav and the only thing they do that light cav can't is attack infantry. If you're going a heavy horse army or a hammer/anvil, the situations where yari cav are useful, you need to tailor your army to that. With light cav, you can fling them on as an afterthought. They are very much not an early game only unit. The only unit in the game that actually gets outclassed-in-every-way-never-make-again is the bow ashigaru. And no I haven't confused yari and katana cavalry I have 300 hours in this game stop saying I'm poo poo at it 
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Jul 15, 2013 20:05
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So, I shouldn't be making katana cavalry or bow ashigaru either?
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Jul 15, 2013 20:13
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If it works for you play however you want  . Bow ashigaru are fine early on, but their upkeep is high for an ashigaru unit and once armoured units start rolling out regularly they're much less effective. I guess peppering a few in your army isn't the worst thing if you want to, and they do get the stakes ability which is pretty useful. Still 2 bow samurai with armour, fire arrows and high morale is basically always better than 3 bow ashigaru.
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Jul 15, 2013 20:24
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Koramei posted:^^yeah, if cost wasn't a factor I'd agree with him, but it is. Like, a huge factor. Are you playing radious' mod or something, Slim Jim Pickens? No, I can see the cost difference right there in the encyclopedia. The cost is never a problem for me. The cost-benefit thing isn't as big of a factor as with infantry because of the different volumes involved. I make like, 2 units of yari cav, so upkeep is maybe 200 koku more. I'm also spending less time and money replacing them because they aren't so easily ganked by other units. Koramei posted:Shogun 2 is much more transparent than the older games, but there are still a bunch of hidden stats. Yari might well trounce light (although I still don't think they do- I'll test it in a minute), but the encyclopedia isn't what you should be going on to determine which units you want to use. Especially with cavalry when stuff like unit size comes into play. And most of my games are set on hard or legendary thank you very much Well what hidden stat is affecting your units? The unit sizes are just something I remember, and I think it's pretty painful to have a cavalry unit that doesn't perform well and has a smaller unit size to add insult to injury. Also, do you mean that play battles on hard or legendary? That would pretty much make this argument pointless since the AI is getting arbitrary boosts in stats and I wouldn't be playing the same way. Koramei posted:And I don't understand what you're trying to say in your second point at all. No I don't care if my cavalry are as effective as possible, I'm not playing the Muromachi Period Equestrian Championship Simulator, every unit has a role that is counteracted by its price. Yari cav are twice as expensive as light cav and the only thing they do that light cav can't is attack infantry. If you're going a heavy horse army or a hammer/anvil, the situations where yari cav are useful, you need to tailor your army to that. With light cav, you can fling them on as an afterthought. They are very much not an early game only unit. The only unit in the game that actually gets outclassed-in-every-way-never-make-again is the bow ashigaru. Like I said, if your only objective with cavalry is to send them on a beeline towards the enemy general, lights are probably fine for that. I've never tried it. If you are planning to use cavalry in any capacity greater than that, you don't want them to be lights because they are too vulnerable to everything, and won't do a good enough job. Even winning a fight with lights will gently caress them, because of their low unit size.
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Jul 15, 2013 20:38
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Its kinda crappy to use any cav to take on infantry except bow cav to be honest because they all suck at it so much unless the enemy is distracted and even then you'll lose a bunch where you have no right losing them. I just assume cav is more of a cleanup/don't you dare loving come back unit and roll with it.
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Jul 15, 2013 20:42
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