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I don't like it when faith is so binary, like a videogame RPG. They're probably dupes of Tzeentch. They're not the only guys to have been misled by incomplete or false visions.
Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Jul 17, 2013 |
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Jul 17, 2013 20:43
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Baron Bifford posted:I don't like it when faith is so binary, like a videogame RPG. They're probably dupes of Tzeentch. They're not the only guys to have been misled by incomplete or false visions. They're shown a prophecy of the future that is absolutely true but not how it comes about, so they end up accidentally helping to fulfilling it. This is a really simple and standard tragic plot device do you not understand oh wait you're Baron Bifford of course you don't understand. They aren't necessarily being deceived at all, there's nothing in the story that suggests this (and Dan Abnett is not a subtle writer) and the plot hardly shows evidence of being well thought through in the first place. I think it's just supposed to be a cautionary tale about prophecy and hubris. Except just terribly told.
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Jul 17, 2013 21:33
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Alchenar posted:They're shown a prophecy of the future that is absolutely true but not how it comes about, so they end up accidentally helping to fulfilling it. This is a really simple and standard tragic plot device do you not understand oh wait you're Baron Bifford of course you don't understand. It's the same with Horus, he's shown a future where there is only war and the Emperor is worshipped as a god on thousands of worls, whole planets are dedicated shrines etc. This betrayal horrifies him and is a big part of why he begins the heresy, not knowing that they only showed him the future he would bring about. Magnus describes the Istvaan incident as "truths cloaked in falsehoods".
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Jul 18, 2013 01:14
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Demiurge4 posted:It's the same with Horus, he's shown a future where there is only war and the Emperor is worshipped as a god on thousands of worls, whole planets are dedicated shrines etc. This betrayal horrifies him and is a big part of why he begins the heresy, not knowing that they only showed him the future he would bring about. Horus was sick and dying and having every single string he had pulled by the Chaos gods themselves, as every festering lie and half-truth that had been planted on his mind by Erebus and Lorgar over the course of decades came to fruition. Alpharius and Omegon met up with a bunch of shifty xenos they had never heard of before, were shown "a vision", and decided to betray the Imperium.
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Jul 18, 2013 03:13
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Nephilm posted:Alpharius and Omegon met up with a bunch of shifty xenos they had never heard of before, were shown "a vision", and decided to betray the Imperium. Or did they? Edit: I bet quite a few Alpha Legion infiltrators are members of the same chapter and have no idea. It'd be quite funny if a coded message was sent to Alpha Legion operatives to do something shady and sabotage-y and like 30 dudes showed up at the same time.
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Jul 18, 2013 04:29
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Alchenar posted:I think it's just supposed to be a cautionary tale about prophecy
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Jul 18, 2013 04:37
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VanSandman posted:Or did they? Quite likely. In one of the books one of the Alpha operatives pretty much gives himself away to another, but it's not until the call for action that most of them are all "Oh hey, I thought this was MY gig." Regarding Legion, I never thought much of the Acuity killing the psyker. Rereading that part, it is pretty sketchy, especially given that Grammaticus is also a psyker and can look into the Acuity without dying. One theory I've heard, and I have no idea how prevalent it is, is that BL is setting up for a return of the Emperor and remaining living primarchs for a renewed war/one last battle. Alpha/Omegon being truly loyal would possibly fit into this, depending on which primarchs are really alive/dead and just how much you trust the continuity of 40k. I suppose I'd just be happy for a single Heresy book that answers more questions than it raises.
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Jul 18, 2013 05:36
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I think it would be exciting enough to reveal the stories of the missing primarchs. Advancing the Big E's plot would just be an orgasm, and then you're left with nothing else to do and a sticky mess.
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Jul 18, 2013 05:48
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Nephilm posted:There's no consensus on what the Primarchs looked like because the Imperium is a gently caress huge place and they haven't been around for 10000 years, and even when they were around, they weren't usually keen on being immortalized in sculpture and such, given that such idolatry was against the imperial creed. And when it was done, details obviously changed based upon the perceptions of the artist in question. Most Primarchs are long gone but the Ultramarines keep Roboute Guilliman around in a status field and visit him on special occasions. (As an aside how do you pronouce his name? And is it a joke somehow like El'Jonson?)
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Jul 18, 2013 06:27
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I've always affected the snootiest French accent I can pull off. It just feels right when talking about smurfs.
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Jul 18, 2013 06:53
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It seems to differ between works. I prefer the Space Marine (videogame) one, which is "Gilliman". No idea about the first name. Seeing as the Ultramarines are Greco-Roman inspired, I also wonder where the name Roboute Guilliman came from. All other Ultramarine names I know are Greek/Roman-sounding.
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Jul 18, 2013 07:12
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Alchenar posted:They're shown a prophecy of the future that is absolutely true but not how it comes about, so they end up accidentally helping to fulfilling it. This is a really simple and standard tragic plot device do you not understand oh wait you're Baron Bifford of course you don't understand. Yeah, that could be it too. I was probably over thinking it so it would seem less hamfisted and annoying.
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Jul 18, 2013 08:09
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A novel with anything at all to do with Russ taking a Great Company into the Eye would be well received.
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Jul 18, 2013 10:10
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isoprenaline posted:Most Primarchs are long gone but the Ultramarines keep Roboute Guilliman around in a status field and visit him on special occasions. It's pronounced "Robutt Girlyman"
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Jul 18, 2013 12:43
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mllaneza posted:A novel with anything at all to do with Russ We need an odd couple series that chronicles the adventures of Russ and Bjorn traipsing through the Eye.
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Jul 18, 2013 12:48
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isoprenaline posted:Most Primarchs are long gone but the Ultramarines keep Roboute Guilliman around in a status field and visit him on special occasions. Ro - boot Gui - i - man (the L's are silent)
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Jul 18, 2013 16:12
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It's actually pronounced "Robert Gillman"
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Jul 18, 2013 16:18
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The audiobooks have it as Row-boot Gilly-man.
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Jul 18, 2013 16:29
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I know that 'The Lightning Tower' pronounced it 'Ruhbuutay.'
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Jul 18, 2013 16:30
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Can anybody confirm or deny the rumors that are springing up about the upcoming Vulkan Lives?
Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 16:45
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Telsa Cola posted:Can anybody confirm or deny the rumors that are springing up about the upcoming Vulcan Lives? I can confirm that it's a Salamanders book by Nick Kyme and therefore not worth reading
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Jul 18, 2013 16:46
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Mechafunkzilla posted:I can confirm that it's a Salamanders book by Nick Kyme and therefore not worth reading I remember reading a short story anthology, where there was a Kyme Salamander Story, which had a crossover with ADB's Night Lords which had their own short story in the anthology. My god the contrast was huge.
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Jul 18, 2013 17:11
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His characterization is just so bad. His writing is so boring. There are worse writers in the BL but none that make you feel more like your time spent reading was just sort of lost into a void.
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Jul 18, 2013 17:13
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Telsa Cola posted:Can anybody confirm or deny the rumors that are springing up about the upcoming Vulcan Lives? What rumours?
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Jul 18, 2013 20:17
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Rumors: Vulkan lives.
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Jul 18, 2013 21:52
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UberJumper posted:What rumours? At the end Vulkan apparently dies due to teleportation malfunction and burns up in the atmosphere of a planet, the last two words of the novel being "Vulkan Dies".
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Jul 19, 2013 00:52
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Telsa Cola posted:Vulcan Part of me wants this to be true. Maybe because the Salamanders have been dumped on from such a great height by GW that at this point it's just funny, and maybe because it'd be so unlike them to write such a definite fate in recent times for any of their big characters. I'll be utterly amazed if it's true.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:34
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Ferrus Manus pretty definitively got his head chopped off by Fulgrim.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:48
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I really like the Salamanders, I wish someone else was writing them. (Someone good, that is.) It sucks when some authors have a monopoly on legions/chapters, even if they're not even that good. The Raven Guard and Dark Angels need someone other than Thorpe, too.
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Jul 19, 2013 03:47
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The Rat posted:Ferrus Manus pretty definitively got his head chopped off by Fulgrim. Maybe we'll find a disk with a recording of his brain on it or something.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:00
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Telsa Cola posted:At the end Vulkan apparently dies due to teleportation malfunction and burns up in the atmosphere of a planet, the last two words of the novel being "Vulkan Dies". I found the spoiler listing being referenced here, and I'm pretty skeptical. It contradicts a LOT of other stuff they have established in the Horus Heresy, as recently as the latest book. Stuff like who is where doing what, and what we know is the fate of some of the characters. That doesn't preclude them making changes (see The Primarchs and Fulgrim) but I doubt it. We'll see though, and Nick Kyme is a lovely enough writer to do it and handle it the way it says.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:45
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I thought we knew the fate of vulkan in Angel Exterminatus i think. it's mentioned that perturabo has a thing for building labyrinths and his masterpiece labyrinth currently had a prisoner/guest, and it hinted at it being vulkan.
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Jul 19, 2013 09:27
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The Mark of Calth anthology has a two page teaser of Vulkan Lives. There might be some misdirection going on, but by the looks of things it's gonna be first person from Vulkan's perspective.
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Jul 19, 2013 12:54
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Fried Chicken posted:I found the spoiler listing being referenced here, and I'm pretty skeptical. It contradicts a LOT of other stuff they have established in the Horus Heresy, as recently as the latest book. Stuff like who is where doing what, and what we know is the fate of some of the characters. That doesn't preclude them making changes (see The Primarchs and Fulgrim) but I doubt it. We'll see though, and Nick Kyme is a lovely enough writer to do it and handle it the way it says. It doesn't seem too likely given that every Primarch has survived re-entry at least once, and they did it as infants. Then again, Nick Kyme.
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Jul 19, 2013 14:29
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I read alot of Warhammer and Ive never heard of Vulcan. I think its because ive avoided the Salamander book on the threads recommendations. Who is he and why is he significant? Feel free to drop all the spoilers you'd like.
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Jul 19, 2013 15:58
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Waroduce posted:I read alot of Warhammer and Ive never heard of Vulcan. I think its because ive avoided the Salamander book on the threads recommendations. Who is he and why is he significant? Feel free to drop all the spoilers you'd like. He's the primarch of the Salamanders and he's important because he's a primarch.
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Jul 19, 2013 16:04
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rocket_Magnet posted:I thought we knew the fate of vulkan in Angel Exterminatus i think. it's mentioned that perturabo has a thing for building labyrinths and his masterpiece labyrinth currently had a prisoner/guest, and it hinted at it being vulkan. I will be thoroughly disappointed if Vulcan has been locked in a labyrinth for the last 10,000 years(possibly less in the eye of terror) ,but I suppose there are worse plot lines in WH40k
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Jul 19, 2013 16:26
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Waroduce posted:I read alot of Warhammer and Ive never heard of Vulcan. I think its because ive avoided the Salamander book on the threads recommendations. Who is he and why is he significant? Feel free to drop all the spoilers you'd like. Vulcan is a tech geek, there's a prophecy around something called the artifacts of Vulcan that he will return once his chapter finds all of them. So far they have a melee weapon, something else and a friggin capital ship.
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Jul 19, 2013 16:30
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Demiurge4 posted:Vulcan is a tech geek, there's a prophecy around something called the artifacts of Vulcan that he will return once his chapter finds all of them. So far they have a melee weapon, something else and a friggin capital ship. Also he's the only primarch to be not an out and out rear end in a top hat, and his chapter are pretty much one of the least dickish. As in actually giving a drat about civilians. Also, the spoiler about Vulkan's fate up there? Pretty sure that was a joke.
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Jul 19, 2013 16:35
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Seriously, if they burn Vulkan to death it will be the stupidest ending because, you know, VULKAN.
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Jul 19, 2013 17:22
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