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Death Bot posted:You're right that LoL's professional scene was entirely propped up by Riot dumping money onto everything, but DotA's entire professional involvement was Blizzard saying "yeah do whatever I guess". It was entirely player driven for quite a while, and Valve just hopped on and sped up an already-moving train. Well the VXG part of EMP is purely funded by a tourism board at a loss and AGE literally doesn't exist anymore so that might be a hint as to why some folks really don't want interference from these groups. Seeing as they've got no reason to really stick around because there's very little profit to be made off fighting games as is and whatever models actually have a profit possibility in them are ones that folks probably imagine are damaging to the scene in the long-run or not in the direction of how they want fighting games to go. MadCatz is probably like the only actual corporation to make a profit off the whole deal because they almost run a monopoly on sticks so that's not really the case either (also because MadCatz sponsorship that's not like top player level is extremely sketchy... like "okay here's a t-shirt and a stick" sketchy) It's really just the same thing everyone's said: that money has to come from somewhere, and the examples to where it could come from aren't really satisfactory.
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Jul 18, 2013 23:15
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Fighting games should really be considered a better spectator sport than SC2 or LoL because I can actually understand what the gently caress is going on in them.
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Jul 18, 2013 23:24
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Death Bot posted:I dunno, I feel like there's no reason that fighting games couldn't be a bigger spectator sport. What is missing for you? There is so much actual tournament footage being streamed these days, just enjoy it. I don't know how it would be so much more enjoyable with more guys wearing custom suede jackets, more boring white commentators, or more commercials. 40 OZ fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Jul 18, 2013 |
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Jul 18, 2013 23:27
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Gammatron 64 posted:Fighting games should really be considered a better spectator sport than SC2 or LoL because I can actually understand what the gently caress is going on in them. They really are infinitely better for spectating, because the viewers see exactly the same thing the players see. In LoL and SC2 streams there has to be some guy controlling a "camera" and you can only see what's happening right there, or if you're spectating in-game you still can only see a small portion of the map at any one time.
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Jul 18, 2013 23:28
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I'd think EVO could get a few marketing departments interested for next year just with the power of their latest viewership numbers (1.7 million over the weekend). I'm not sure how actively they usually try to reach out to companies outside the usual FGC-related lineup (Capcom, MCZ, BT, AS etc.) though.
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Jul 18, 2013 23:29
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40 OZ posted:What is missing for you? There is so much actual tournament footage being streamed these days, just enjoy it. Nothing? I just think it would be cool for some players who are really good at a game that I enjoy to play and watch to earn a little more money, and simultaneously think it's lovely that players like Xian managed to fight their way to the top of several thousand people over a grueling weekend only to earn a couple grand, all this after flying halfway across the world to do so.
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Jul 18, 2013 23:31
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Perhaps e-sports money and the e-sports image come as a package deal. If you reject suit jackets and the Dr. Pepper Cam (TM), you may also be rejecting large payouts. If that is the case, I'd prefer to have it the way it is now. It's not about a few internet famous players making lots of money, it's about the entire community.
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Jul 18, 2013 23:42
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Death Bot posted:Nothing? I just think it would be cool for some players who are really good at a game that I enjoy to play and watch to earn a little more money, and simultaneously think it's lovely that players like Xian managed to fight their way to the top of several thousand people over a grueling weekend only to earn a couple grand, all this after flying halfway across the world to do so. I do agree with this. The amount Xian got doesn't properly reflect the amount of skill and dedication it takes to win a major, let alone EVO.
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Jul 18, 2013 23:58
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dijon posted:Perhaps e-sports money and the e-sports image come as a package deal. If you reject suit jackets and the Dr. Pepper Cam (TM), you may also be rejecting large payouts. If that is the case, I'd prefer to have it the way it is now. It's not about a few internet famous players making lots of money, it's about the entire community. Says the guy who didn't just win evo  And yeah, the fighting game scene is cool the way it is, I just feel like it really wouldn't lose much from a few logos here and there, more players with acronyms before their names, a tournament being named Razor Fight Nights, or Yipes wearing some glowy headphones around his neck. That said it's obviously a slipper slope and the lack of 40 OZ posted:I don't know how it would be so much more enjoyable with more guys wearing custom suede jackets, more boring white commentators, or more commercials. is basically why I enjoy the scene, so it's obviously a thin line.
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Jul 19, 2013 00:11
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Well, Evo could stand to raise the price on tournament fees. It's what, $10 a game now? Raising it to $20 wouldn't break anybody's bank (everybody has a year to save up for a loving Vegas trip, anyway), it would double the prize pool size, people with really bad personalities would boycott (and even a net player loss would result in a faster tournament), and it would discourage people from playing in too many games at once which is the number one reason why tournaments run behind schedule. CEO had a NOS sponsorship in previous years and Red Bull this year. Even if Avermedia is the only electronics company really pushing new poo poo, there are still food and beverage sponsors to be had at these events.
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Jul 19, 2013 00:16
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Broken Loose posted:Well, Evo could stand to raise the price on tournament fees. It's what, $10 a game now? Raising it to $20 wouldn't break anybody's bank (everybody has a year to save up for a loving Vegas trip, anyway), it would double the prize pool size, people with really bad personalities would boycott (and even a net player loss would result in a faster tournament), and it would discourage people from playing in too many games at once which is the number one reason why tournaments run behind schedule. Mr. Wizard thinks that going from $10 to $20 or even $15 would be damaging enough to make him not want to do it. From my perspective I don't see how it could be that bad but apparently he thinks it is.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:27
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Still, SF4 entrants paid a total of ~$16000 to enter - is it normal for 1st place to get ~33% of the pot? Obviously the tourney needs to fund itself, but you'd imagine 1st place would get at least 50% of the fees...
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Jul 19, 2013 01:37
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Super Rad posted:Still, SF4 entrants paid a total of ~$16000 to enter - is it normal for 1st place to get ~33% of the pot? Obviously the tourney needs to fund itself, but you'd imagine 1st place would get at least 50% of the fees... 1st used to get 60%, but the top 3 prizes were scaled down to pay top 32, which is a totally cool thing. It sucks that you used to be able to get 9th place in a tournament of 1000 and not even win bus fare to get you back to the airport to fly home.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:50
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Most players would prefer lower payout for 1st place if it meant more money for the lower places because, if they most likely don't place, they want at least some cash.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:03
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I believe Keits was one of the driving forces to get it scaled down. Poker tournaments have a much wider payout structure, but it's more luck based and you can play them all day and in higher buy-ins.
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Jul 19, 2013 03:10
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Yipes has a few people over (Alukard and Bum are playing right now, don't know if anyone else is over there) and is currently commentating.
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Jul 19, 2013 03:44
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graynull posted:Maybe this is why Spooky said, "gently caress poverty chat" during his GUTS Marvel commentary. I thought he was just making GBS threads on people who didn't subscribe, but perhaps he was just making GBS threads on lovely people. Poverty chat used to be pretty chill, but now it's turned into a weird circlejerk of people who are literally proud of not paying to support the people they watch. e: I don't mean that to imply people who don't sub are bad, or even that you should pay to chat for streams like sp00ky's or EVO, but the mentality in poverty chat has turned into something actively hostile, like a "You want me to sub? Well gently caress YOU buddy" sort of mindset. AnonSpore fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 03:47
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Yeah, and it's gotten even worse now that Salty Bets is getting attention on streams; the original Bipson accused Saltybets of stealing code, and since then there's been the whole gently caress SALTYBETS HE IS TERRIBLE ADORE BIPSON ON STREAM poo poo that shows up every time. Really the only reason to go to poverty chat anymore is the new bipson betting.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:28
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The funny thing is the last thing poverty chat really wants is the lifting of sub-only chat. The rare major where sub-only chat isn't enabled is a god damned poo poo show of ascii spam, copypasta, and hate, and whether you prefer aristochat or poverty chat, everyone is made worse off. Poverty chat may be a mad max hellscape, but it has a certain charm to it so long as it's seen as neutral territory and not something to actively attack.
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Jul 19, 2013 04:43
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If anyone's still watching Yipes' stream, Alukard saying "That air reset with Akuma? I loving threw my dog." has probably been the highlight of the stream so far for me. Just the mental image and how straight faced he said it.
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Jul 19, 2013 05:25
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So WCG picked up Street Fighter 4 as an official game. It was announced during EVO finals day so so it kind of flew under the radar. To people who don't know about WCG, it's one of the oldest and biggest esports things around, originally formed and sponsored by South Korea's tourism and culture ministry along with Samsung and has typically had some of the bigger total prize pools of any competitive gaming events. It's also surrounded by a really weird and creepy vibe that I can only describe as being similar to CTSOs. If that means nothing to you, there's always this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IznCjaeJdQ I also can't help but feel like I messed with some cosmic force that allowed this to happen when I made this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx5u-Q8rRX4
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Jul 19, 2013 12:25
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bebaloorpabopalo posted:So WCG picked up Street Fighter 4 as an official game. It was announced during EVO finals day so so it kind of flew under the radar. To people who don't know about WCG, it's one of the oldest and biggest esports things around, originally formed and sponsored by South Korea's tourism and culture ministry along with Samsung and has typically had some of the bigger total prize pools of any competitive gaming events. It's also surrounded by a really weird and creepy vibe that I can only describe as being similar to CTSOs. If that means nothing to you, there's always this video: You know, I've only ever followed fighting game streams and I've never watched any esports stuff ever, and I always thought "man, it would be great to have more money involved in this, I dunno why people are so against this esports thing" and now I completely understand why. That poo poo is wicked weird. 
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Jul 19, 2013 13:24
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WCG is kind of a relic of the early 2000's though, most "esports" nowadays isn't really like that. DreamHack, which is live right now, is more representative: http://www.twitch.tv/dreamhacktv
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Jul 19, 2013 13:31
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WCG these days is a really weird, increasingly irrelevant mess, but it's also one of the last places on earth to watch competitive WC3 because China owns and still loves that game, so I'm a fan.
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Jul 19, 2013 13:50
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Yeah, WCG is... unique. I get that when people say they don't want fightgames to be esports a big part of it is not wanting the mockable seriousness of the WCG or the faux-professionalism (aka putting 19-20 year olds in sponsor jerseys for video games) of League and Dota, but I feel like this scene is one that could handle a bit extra money without that happening. I love watching the scene as-is, and as much as I like the guy, I'm not saying that I want all of the faces of the community to be Ultradavid for that sense of "professionalism" (aka a white dude in a dress shirt)
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Jul 19, 2013 13:54
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Gammatron 64 posted:You know, I've only ever followed fighting game streams and I've never watched any esports stuff ever, and I always thought "man, it would be great to have more money involved in this, I dunno why people are so against this esports thing" and now I completely understand why. Counterpoint: these awesome dudes 
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Jul 19, 2013 14:24
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Xenogenesis posted:Counterpoint: these awesome dudes But they're both white. 
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Jul 19, 2013 15:07
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Double Bill posted:WCG is kind of a relic of the early 2000's though, most "esports" nowadays isn't really like that. DreamHack, which is live right now, is more representative: http://www.twitch.tv/dreamhacktv Are they doing more AE at this event?
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Jul 19, 2013 15:26
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You cant really compare prizepools from lol/dota 2 with EVO. The upcoming International 3 tournament now has a price pool of about 2.6 millions (nearly half of it is now sponsored via a cosmetic item, the international compendium, from the dota 2 store). These amounts are only possible if capcom/someone else actually pays 1mio + for a price pool.
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Jul 19, 2013 15:32
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Everything related to WCG feels like it's trapped in the 90s somehow. I can't explain why. It just reminds me of all of those terrible educational videos I saw in middle/high school.
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Jul 19, 2013 15:39
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WCG sucks loving rear end. There was that one year where they only had mobile games for some random reason. Also last year they decided they should have BOTH Dota 1 and Dota 2. It was so bad because they got one of the popular Dota casters but for dota 1, and they got some sc2/LoL guys for Dota 2 which was horrible at first but to their credit actually tried to learn the game and cast it better. As an online spectator experience it was just kinda poo poo all around to be honest. Also they some deal by Riot Games so they could be the only moba in the tournament, so no more dota 2 this year, but not like it matters because its such an irrelevant tournament anyway. Seriously I have no idea why Capcom again (IPL the first time) chooses poo poo companies to work with.
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Jul 19, 2013 16:14
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Chacmool posted:Mr. Wizard thinks that going from $10 to $20 or even $15 would be damaging enough to make him not want to do it. From my perspective I don't see how it could be that bad but apparently he thinks it is. I would guess this is to keep things economical for people who want to register for lots of games. Someone who wanted to play in 5 games would have to pay $100 instead of $50. I personally would like to see the fees double (or more) in order to make payouts to top players bigger or to pay out to Top 16 instead of Top 8, but I'm not a tournament player and I'm not a TO so my opinion is just that of some random dude on the internet.
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Jul 19, 2013 16:43
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When's Marvel?
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Jul 19, 2013 16:46
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DiscoJ posted:When's Marvel? http://www.whensmarvel.com/ Discount locals, next weekend there will be something of note
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Jul 19, 2013 16:49
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PonchAxis posted:WCG sucks loving rear end. There was that one year where they only had mobile games for some random reason. Also last year they decided they should have BOTH Dota 1 and Dota 2. Dota 2 was absolutely hilarious to watch because I think the text was in Chinese so the commentators didn't even know the names of the heroes. They were all like "Oh, so that... uhh... elephant thing with a spear just ummm... let loose with an attack!" and consulting the spectator chat to try and figure out what was going on.
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Jul 19, 2013 16:52
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PonchAxis posted:WCG sucks loving rear end. There was that one year where they only had mobile games for some random reason. Also last year they decided they should have BOTH Dota 1 and Dota 2. Yeah for real, I don't know why they don't just prop up a few tournaments that already exist and do well, especially considering the fact that the fighting game scene is completely different than any of the other comp game scenes. I'd rather see more Curlehs and CEOs than more Dreamhacks and (ugh) WCGs. Also remember that one year that they did LoL but they said teams had to be divided by country, so the two leading teams that were a mix of USA/CAN players just shuffled their players around and anyone else just did that much worse because they couldn't play with their whole team? And also one guy who had dual citizenship tried playing on two teams, and the ruling when they found out was to DQ the team that had already lost in one of the qualifiers, that were already over???
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Jul 19, 2013 18:10
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WCG owned last year, don't get the hate. Sure it is a relic from the past but you had Starcraft announcers casting Dota2, a Dota1 turny, and loving WC3:FT. It ruled and I'm sure an AE turny run by them will be hokey as poo poo and also rule.
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Jul 19, 2013 18:57
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lamentable dustman posted:WCG owned last year, don't get the hate. Sure it is a relic from the past but you had Starcraft announcers casting Dota2, a Dota1 turny, and loving WC3:FT. It ruled and I'm sure an AE turny run by them will be hokey as poo poo and also rule. I should clarify that I agree, the dota2 announcers were really funny by accident and the other two were pretty cool to watch. However, I would rather watch Curleh 3: The Legend of Curleh's Gold than the inevitable Infiltration/Dieminion trying to cross the language barrier to commentate or something. Not that that wouldn't be entertaining
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Jul 19, 2013 19:11
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Nice profile of KaneBlueRiver here. BONUS: Our Fooblat appears in a picture (albeit a bit blurry) and gets a little mention, too 
fix yr hearts fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 19:12
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Waterbed posted:Everything related to WCG feels like it's trapped in the 90s somehow. I can't explain why. It just reminds me of all of those terrible educational videos I saw in middle/high school. Well, their theme song sounds like it came straight outta the 80s \ early 90s and is cheesy and terrible as hell. This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IznCjaeJdQ vs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYl-V4MMv9E
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Jul 19, 2013 19:31
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