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Garnavis posted:Just spoke to a headhunter who's marketing me at a couple of firms in Connecticut. Has anyone worked through headhunters for their first job before? The part that worries me (on the subject of lowballing) is that they claimed the average starting salary for programmers is $45-55k, and scoffed at the $60k number that's generally quoted, this being after them telling me how great my background looks. Seems kind of predatory to me, but are my expectations just too high? That sounds like a bad headhunter that finds bad developers for bad firms.
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Jul 17, 2013 04:17
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In my experience if a headhunter doesn't come to you up-front with jobs they have in mind you're just gonna be wasting time.
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Jul 17, 2013 04:18
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Ask recruiters for recommendations from the programmers they have placed. There should be a Yelp for recruiters.
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Jul 17, 2013 04:27
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Stoph posted:Ask recruiters for recommendations from the programmers they have placed. There should be a Yelp for recruiters. This is an excellent idea and likely a quality indicator. The only recruiter that has ever asked me for a recommendation was the best one I ever dealt with.
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Jul 17, 2013 05:44
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There's a recruiter here in town that often shows up for and buys pizza at a lot of the local developer meetups. Ordinarily I'd say that doesn't mean anything as recruiters do that all the time, but the groups' leaders have kept inviting her back over the last four or five years. I know they've worked with her for placement and I know they're not stupid people. So clearly she's been doing well by them. If I needed a job and my personal network didn't come through with anything, I'd definitely give her a ring. Meanwhile, I just landed a job with an SV software firm where I get to work remote here in flyover country. I'll get to see how this "distributed team" thing actually works.
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Jul 17, 2013 14:11
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Final update. Passed the background check (whew, those missing bodies haven't caught up to me yet) and accepted the verbal offer! It came in about 2.5k less than I wanted to make, but I got them 12.5k up from where they started negotiations, so I consider it a win for me. It's still a ~10k raise from what I'm making now, in an area of the country that has a 10-15% lower cost of living, so another win. I was fairly close to getting a different offer (probably a little higher in salary) from a company in Plano, but my impression from the phone screens and skyping made me fall in love with this company's culture and the team I'm going to be working with, which is worth a couple of dollars less, IMO. Going from 0 experience as a fulltime musician to 2 separate hires as a developer in 3 years is pretty astounding to me.
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Jul 17, 2013 19:47
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Wow, that was fast. The headhunter got me an on-site interview for tomorrow morning at one of the firms in Connecticut. Unfortunately I'm not especially interested in this company and I'm still hoping to hear from a couple others that I've done phone interviews at. Given how fast this is moving (the headhunter first contacted me about this job two days ago), I'd have an offer from them before I even have an on-site elsewhere.aBagorn posted:Going from 0 experience as a fulltime musician to 2 separate hires as a developer in 3 years is pretty astounding to me. Dang, that is impressive, congratulations. Garnavis fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Jul 17, 2013 |
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Jul 17, 2013 20:22
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aBagorn posted:Final update. Passed the background check (whew, those missing bodies haven't caught up to me yet) and accepted the verbal offer! Whoo, similar story to me. Congrats. Also, yay Texas? :/
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Jul 17, 2013 23:44
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etcetera08 posted:Whoo, similar story to me. Congrats. Also, yay Texas? :/ There's family in Texas. Which is actually how this whole shebang got started. I wasn't actually on the market until we decided to relocate
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Jul 18, 2013 00:50
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Anyone have any experience with IBM Rational and care to share? I have PM's and would appreciate it immensely.
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Jul 18, 2013 03:01
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They made Rational Rose.
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Jul 18, 2013 05:26
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I remember when I was in high school one summer, in the governor's school for information technology, there was some kid who was a big fan of Rational Rose. There were also some other kids who were big fans of programming.
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Jul 18, 2013 05:33
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kitten smoothie posted:Meanwhile, I just landed a job with an SV software firm where I get to work remote here in flyover country. I'll get to see how this "distributed team" thing actually works.
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Jul 18, 2013 20:53
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Well I got turned down for that IT thing anyway, so no need to worry about making a decision there! I'm starting to feel like it's time to pack my bags. Somewhat OT, but for those who are single and relocated to a whole new town with no existing connections, how long did it take for you to rebuild a social life (assuming you managed to)?
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Jul 18, 2013 21:48
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boho posted:Well I got turned down for that IT thing anyway, so no need to worry about making a decision there! Moved to Columbus, OH almost a month ago; I still don't know anyone. Bright side, I got an offer yesterday so I'm pretty excited regardless.
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Jul 19, 2013 01:10
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boho posted:I'm starting to feel like it's time to pack my bags. Somewhat OT, but for those who are single and relocated to a whole new town with no existing connections, how long did it take for you to rebuild a social life (assuming you managed to)? 100% depends on how much effort you want to put into it. If you don't go out, don't actively try to connect with others and don't make yourself available, you can easily go years without making any friends. It's amazing how easy it is to connect with nobody.
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Jul 19, 2013 02:50
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Depends on the place too - it's a minor uphill battle to make lasting friendships outside of work in a big place place like London (that and it's not a very outgoing city).
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Jul 19, 2013 08:00
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boho posted:Well I got turned down for that IT thing anyway, so no need to worry about making a decision there! I lucked out and work with some good people that I connected with pretty instantly, so I did a lot of stuff with work people and then organically met outsiders through that. It didn't take long at all. I participated in things like the office running club and tried to go to lunch with people who seemed friendly.
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Jul 19, 2013 12:45
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Soup in a Bag posted:Can you say anything more (by pm if you want) about who you'll be working for or how you found the opportunity? I'm definitely in flyover country (not even developer meetups around here) and have been looking for something new. I'll probably end up relocating to CA, but I'd definitely like to look into remote work if it might be an option. I have not started the job yet so I am not really inclined to say the company's name in any case. I was referred to the position by a friend I met at a local developer meetup. He has been working remotely for this firm for about 9 months now. I'm not sure how he got picked up, because nobody else here in town works for this company. He is fairly active on Github, StackOverflow, and Twitter professionally, and he also hits the conference circuit. I would put my money on the idea that they noticed him that way and reached out to him. If there really is no local developer community and you have the cash to burn on a trip, I would definitely try hitting conferences that seem interesting and network like a madman. If you're in flyover country, consider Strange Loop (held every year in St Louis), it's usually got some top notch speakers and attracts developers from firms whose names you would definitely recognize. I think it's sold out this year, but maybe you can get lucky on the waiting list. edit: I'd also add two things. If you ask about remote work when applying, the worst that can happen is they tell you no but that they do offer relocation expenses (hint: any place on the west coast that's trying to hire good developers will offer relo, because the cost of moving your stuff is practically a rounding error relative to your total comp). So ask. Your level of experience can make this a challenge, too, though. The majority of the people I know, myself included, who work remotely as developers have got a fair amount of experience under their belts, like 8-12 years or more. I think that companies are just going to be less likely to pick up any fresh grad, fedex them a company laptop, and tell them to get coding. kitten smoothie fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 16:10
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Are cons that helpful for employment? OSCON is here next week. I was considering getting a ticket to the exhibition hall and walking around with resumes or something. I wish I had a GitHub to show off, maybe someday.
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Jul 19, 2013 16:32
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HondaCivet posted:Are cons that helpful for employment? OSCON is here next week. I was considering getting a ticket to the exhibition hall and walking around with resumes or something. I wish I had a GitHub to show off, maybe someday. Get business cards if you want to pass stuff out to people you meet and want them to remember you, most people you meet won't be in a position to receive resumes anyway. But yes, networking is incredibly helpful to employment.
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Jul 19, 2013 16:45
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Yeah, get business cards and trade email addresses/twitter handles/blogs/whatever. Nobody's going to take your resume on the spot, but six months down the road you can send someone an email along the lines of "Hey, we had a couple beers at OSCON, I had a great time hearing about what you're working on at Google..." and see if they can't do an internal referral for you. Referrals from employees carry a ton more water with the people doing hiring and they will often move much, much faster than if you had gone through central HR. Often times the referring employee gets a nice bonus out of it so there's incentive for them too.
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Jul 19, 2013 17:06
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I wish I had business cards. Do people just make their own if their company doesn't provide them? I'm not sure what I'd put on it, augh.
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Jul 19, 2013 17:11
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Business cards can be found cheap online, like $10 for a few hundred.
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Jul 19, 2013 18:01
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Moo.com. It's stupid easy. Also local tech meetups are a great place to troll for jobs. Hell I don't go to any of them but I'm on the email lists of a few and people will advertise positions to the groups.
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Jul 19, 2013 18:08
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oRenj9 posted:Business cards can be found cheap online, like $10 for a few hundred. Yeah, OvernightPrints and Vistaprint are good for this. Or just go to Staples or OfficeMax or whatever you have; business cards are cheap there too. They'll turn them around faster, too; the cheaper cards from OvernightPrints and Vista prints can take 2-3 weeks to turn up unless you pay them a lot more. thepedestrian posted:Also local tech meetups are a great place to troll for jobs. Hell I don't go to any of them but I'm on the email lists of a few and people will advertise positions to the groups. Being able to effectively discuss technical matters like that is something that will put you head and shoulders above others. People remember it and think "oh, yeah, that person who talked on Coffeescript at the Rails meetup, they were good and we should hire them." kitten smoothie fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 18:08
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So I had my interview at the place in Connecticut that I got through the headhunter. It went really well and it sounds like they're going to make an offer. It's quite where I had set my sights but it's far more promising than anything else I've got, so I think I'm going to go for it. The only thing that concerns me is that it's on a contract-for-hire basis and I'll be on the headhunter's payroll during the contract period, typically 6 months. Is that... bad? Unorthodox? Is this going to be a very poor decision?
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Jul 19, 2013 23:27
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Garnavis posted:So I had my interview at the place in Connecticut that I got through the headhunter. It went really well and it sounds like they're going to make an offer. It's quite where I had set my sights but it's far more promising than anything else I've got, so I think I'm going to go for it. The only thing that concerns me is that it's on a contract-for-hire basis and I'll be on the headhunter's payroll during the contract period, typically 6 months. Is that... bad? Unorthodox? Is this going to be a very poor decision? I've done it and no, it's not bad (especially if you can ride on your parents' insurance for a while). It's a pretty typical temp-to-hire arrangement. It's not as good as being an FTE from the start but you said you didn't have anything else. But do you know the specifics about when you go full-time? A lot of these temp-to-hire things are actually "temp forever so we don't have to pay you benefits" and while it's a pretty grey area legally no one's lifting a finger to stop them. So you should figure that out and adjust your expectations accordingly.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:59
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top interview tip: if you can describe a solution for a programming problem using a hylomorphism, you'll get the job. 100% correlation.
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Jul 20, 2013 07:49
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RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS posted:But do you know the specifics about when you go full-time? A lot of these temp-to-hire things are actually "temp forever so we don't have to pay you benefits" and while it's a pretty grey area legally no one's lifting a finger to stop them. So you should figure that out and adjust your expectations accordingly. Since it's a contract, it has a definite end time, usually this particular employer does them for six months. Unfortunately my parents don't have any insurance to ride on or anything at all, really, since we're completely broke. I'm just hoping the company will help me with relocation because I simply wouldn't be able to do it otherwise.
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Jul 20, 2013 08:01
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HondaCivet posted:I wish I had a GitHub to show off, maybe someday. HondaCivet posted:I wish I had business cards. You wish for some really easy to fulfill things.
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Jul 20, 2013 16:22
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kitten smoothie posted:If there really is no local developer community and you have the cash to burn on a trip, I would definitely try hitting conferences that seem interesting and network like a madman. If you're in flyover country, consider Strange Loop (held every year in St Louis), it's usually got some top notch speakers and attracts developers from firms whose names you would definitely recognize. I think it's sold out this year, but maybe you can get lucky on the waiting list. Oh wow, I'm not sure how I've missed that. I'm a couple hours from St. Louis; I might try the waiting list for this year. Where I'm living now, I'm lucky to even have the job I do (ruby dev, the very few other dev jobs are .NET based), but it doesn't pay what it should and a couple of our strongest devs took off for CA recently and there's been no real effort to replace them. I'm not sure what/if management is thinking anymore. Thanks for the advice. I'll probably just end up moving somewhere less humid, but you're right - it can't hurt to ask if remote work is an option.
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Jul 20, 2013 16:51
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DreadCthulhu posted:100% depends on how much effort you want to put into it. If you don't go out, don't actively try to connect with others and don't make yourself available, you can easily go years without making any friends. It's amazing how easy it is to connect with nobody.
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Jul 20, 2013 20:57
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Soup in a Bag posted:Oh wow, I'm not sure how I've missed that. I'm a couple hours from St. Louis; I might try the waiting list for this year. Where I'm living now, I'm lucky to even have the job I do (ruby dev, the very few other dev jobs are .NET based), but it doesn't pay what it should and a couple of our strongest devs took off for CA recently and there's been no real effort to replace them. I'm not sure what/if management is thinking anymore. Couple of hours from St. Louis in what direction? IIRC Strange Loop has been sold out for awhile now but I might know some people to talk to.
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Jul 20, 2013 22:05
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This is my resume: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3duurus7n9bNkFlZi14aWpDems/edit?usp=sharing The formatting sucks. How about the content? I feel gross putting in "commented code extensively", but I thought I should try to get across that I make an effort to write code that is maintainable when I'm gone. Are there any immediate changes I can make to improve this resume? Are there any red flags that scream "delete this person's application; do not contact for interview"? And for my own curiosity / anxiety, does this look like the resume of someone who would have a shot at many junior-level positions? Thanks!
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Jul 21, 2013 00:16
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ThrowawayAccount posted:This is my resume: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3duurus7n9bNkFlZi14aWpDems/edit?usp=sharing You are using some mediocre words in the skills section, things like "skilled to various degrees" and "know and regularly use". Consider rearranging the skills to emphasize the ones required by the job you are applying (you should modify the resume for each job you apply). I personally use a tabular format to show my skills, with 4 columns and 3 rows. It was a tight fit, but it worked! Also, there are some libraries that you mention on the bottom, but not on the top. These are important keywords that people use to quickly scan resumes, and you should make it easy for them to find. The intern job experience section looks fine, but could use some trimming, as it's too long. Put the github link, or if you have a personal site/blog, on the top of the page, next to the contact details. So many people don't even have them, so you will immediately stand out by using them. If you find that you are running out of space on the top, consider splitting the contact details in two columns. In the projects section, don't empathize your buggy code. Instead, show us how awesome it is, and what do you intend to use it for in the future. Lines of code don't really matter that much, and I'd get rid of them if I were you. You look like a smart and talented developer, and I'm sure you would do great in junior or even intermediate level positions. Speaking of resumes, I have a question to all you other goons. Is it that big of a deal if a resume goes to two pages? What would be your reaction if you got a resume like the one above, but with two pages instead of one? Would it increase his chances of getting hired, or the opposite?
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Jul 21, 2013 00:48
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The more you can emphasize and lead with the business value of your past work the better. Citing a quantitative improvement in test running time is a good example but it's buried with too much eye-glazing technical detail. "Unlike the main product's test suite" could come off as flippant. Change it to "compared to hours for..." Include Scrum in your skills, because it's hip. I wouldn't recommend using tables for your skills because some widely-used resume filters choke on them and they waste space besides. My resume breaks down by skill category (platform, language, dev tools, etc.) and each category is a comma-separated list. Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jul 21, 2013 |
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Jul 21, 2013 00:52
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ThrowawayAccount posted:This is my resume: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3duurus7n9bNkFlZi14aWpDems/edit?usp=sharing Drop most of the adverbs and adjectives Just say what languages you use. Don't listen anything you couldn't write a simple program in. I usually order them from most to least proficient. Put skills at the bottom For every paragraph, keep the first sentence and the one explaining how it benefited the company. Now merge them into one sentence. Remove code commenting. You sound stupid. Add a link to github and remove the bottom section. If they're good, at your test scores. Also did you literally do nothing else in college besides those two things. also align your information right, put your github link up with it, and choose a less ugly font.
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Jul 21, 2013 01:25
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Pseudo-God posted:Speaking of resumes, I have a question to all you other goons. Is it that big of a deal if a resume goes to two pages? What would be your reaction if you got a resume like the one above, but with two pages instead of one? Would it increase his chances of getting hired, or the opposite? As long as the most important stuff is on the first page, not really. Mine is 2.5 pages and I can't remember the last time I didn't get at least a phone interview out of a resume submission.
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Jul 21, 2013 01:28
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The rule is 1 page per 10 years of work experience. At my company we definitely look down on people with multi-page resumes without the experience to justify it.
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Jul 21, 2013 01:44
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