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I just read the Kiernan story "I am the Abyss, I am the Light" in the (awesome) anthology Aliens: Recent Encounters. It was okay but not enough to make me want to read all her other stuff. It contains the description "the thorny, cilia-lined slit that can no longer be described as a human vagina" though so if that's your kind of thing go for it!
Hedrigall fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 03:50
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McCoy Pauley posted:I just finished Peter hamilton's "Great North Road," and loved it. Usually I move on to my next book immediately, but it has left me wanting to sit down and think about everything the boom contained. Just immensely satisfying in its scope and the way everything wove together by the end. I find that while Hamilton's stuff is frequently juvenile pulp, I still like it. My recommendations would be Fallen Dragon, a self contained novel, and the Commonwealth Saga/Void Trilogy, which are mostly like the Night's Dawn Trilogy but better and way further in the future. Peter Hamilton has a notable tendency to include a lot of sex (he's no Piers Anthony, thank god) and finish with rushed or jarring endings. Great North Road is better than average for his standards in regards to both, so maybe he's improving. Corvinus fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 04:21
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Corvinus posted:I find that while Hamilton's stuff is frequently juvenile pulp, I still like it. My recommendations would be Fallen Dragon, a self contained novel, and the Commonwealth Saga/Void Trilogy, which are mostly like the Night's Dawn Trilogy but better and way further in the future. Awesome -- thanks. I'll check those out.
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Jul 20, 2013 04:23
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andrew smash posted:I don't get the atheist pagan part. Is that like telling mom that if dad doesn't have to go to the saturnalia neither do you? I don't believe in gods.
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Jul 20, 2013 04:30
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Fallom posted:I don't believe in gods. that's true of me as well so i'm wondering what the point of making the distinction was.
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Jul 20, 2013 05:05
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andrew smash posted:that's true of me as well so i'm wondering what the point of making the distinction was. I haven't read many of Kiernan's short stories, but if you can find it I'd recommend The Ammonite Violin. No clue what collection I read that one in, it's been a while. It's also a good primer for the paleontology nerd stuff you'll find references to in a lot of her other writing.
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Jul 20, 2013 05:15
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Nondescript Van posted:I'm a big fan of Alastair Reynolds and i've read and really liked (almost) everything he has written. I wasn't a fan of terminal world because I don't like steampunk Late to the party, but Charles Stross has some space opera I think you will enjoy. 2 different universes with 2 books and 1 short story each. Singularity Sky and Iron Sunrise in one with FTL travel and spies, Saturn's Children and Neptune's Brood with hard science and a deconstruction of Heinlein and the libertarian take on space colonization. Great read, can't recommend Stross enough.
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Jul 20, 2013 05:40
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Seconding Charles Stross. I really love his take on transhumanism in Saturn's Children and Neptune's Brood, and I dearly hope there will be more books in that universe. The Eschaton is also an interesting character/plot element, so books from the Eschaton universe would be welcomed too.
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Jul 20, 2013 12:12
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Hey remember the alien rape-y good times that was "Spar" by Kij Johnson? Well she wrote a bacon remix.
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Jul 21, 2013 11:33
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RightClickSaveAs posted:I'm glad to see Caitlin R. Kiernan mentioned in the OP. I've read all her books, although I haven't been able to find most of the short stories. It seems she gets unfairly lumped in with the kind of trashy urban fantasy of, say, your Laurel K. Hamiltons and Kim Harrisons, with their sexy werewolves and other nonsense. Well, you should thank General Battuta for that. I'm boggled that anyone could confuse her with paranormal romance (although Kim Harrison's a pretty cool dude, I think). You'd have to be judging them by their covers, or seriously overrating the psychic-boyfriend thing, to think that they were anything like that. Though I've only read Threshold and Low Red Moon but they struck me as books using Lovecraftian motifs in a mainstream-literary style, early Angela Carter-ish maybe.
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Jul 21, 2013 13:23
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BlazinLow305 posted:Redoing this post to make it more succinct. Basically I need a fantasy recommendation. Something that's a Trilogy or longer preferably. I've already read these series: A few more possibilities for you David Eddings. Best known for The Belgariad series Mike Jefferies Not very well known, but the "Loremasters of Elundium" series really sounds like the kind of thing you're after. Terry Brooks At the least, read the Sword of Shannara.
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Jul 21, 2013 14:53
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Zola posted:A few more possibilities for you But he's already read LOTR?
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Jul 21, 2013 15:55
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Megazver posted:But he's already read LOTR? Yes, but he said he liked that style and mentioned the Forgotten Realms books, so...
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Jul 21, 2013 16:01
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Hedrigall posted:Hey remember the alien rape-y good times that was "Spar" by Kij Johnson?  That is really hilarious.
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Jul 21, 2013 16:40
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Zola posted:A few more possibilities for you
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Jul 21, 2013 16:59
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Drakyn posted:I'm not entirely sure this is a good option. David Eddings can write well enough, but unless you're under thirteen you can predict the content of each chapter as you go and come out with fair reason to believe you're a psychic. Plus the characters can all be summarized in a single sentence list of traits, only you'll never need to because they'll do it themselves every paragraph they're mentioned in. Plus his two main series are essentially carbon copies of each other, with the names of the characters and locations replaced. EDIT: BlazinLow305, you may also wanna check out Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series. Pretty classic fantasy, and well written. Vinterstum fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Jul 21, 2013 |
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Jul 21, 2013 17:42
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Vinterstum posted:Plus his two main series are essentially carbon copies of each other, with the names of the characters and locations replaced. I recommended these books based on what the poster said he liked, not by literary merit. BlazinLow305, also check out Gary Gygax, The Anteros books (Alan Cole and Chris Bunch), The Dragonlance novels and other series by those authors, and maybe even Melanie Rawn's Dragon Prince and Dragon Star trilogies. I know I'm repeating myself, but Goons please note--this list comes from the books that were popular with my gaming group when they came out when we were all reading Forgotten Realms etc, and does not imply anything other than "these books are like the ones the poster said he liked". That being said, I don't recall ever discussing the Far Kingdoms (Anteros) or Rawn's trilogies so that might be interesting for the thread.
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Jul 21, 2013 19:08
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I don't know of anyone who's read Eddings' works didn't love them. Although I'm sure my saying that will cause lots of people to chime up with contrary opinions! It's definitely dated, cliched writing, but they're pretty good and an entertaining read. Then again, everyone I know (myself included) read his books when they were a young teenager, so recommending them to an adult is always a bit of a gamble.  I had a friend describe them as a "fuzzy warm blanket I can wrap myself up in to feel comforted and familiar".
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Jul 21, 2013 21:11
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Vinterstum posted:Plus his two main series are essentially carbon copies of each other, with the names of the characters and locations replaced. They really are not. The only major similarities between the Belgariad/Malloreon and the Elenium/Tamuli are that there's a magical blue stone, a wizardess and a nation of faux-Vikings. Beyond that, the characters in the Sparhawk books are entirely different apart from a few generic traits like "highly devout" or "good with his hands" and the focus of the story is much wider than the simple quest narrative of the Belgariad.
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Jul 21, 2013 23:39
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House Louse posted:Well, you should thank General Battuta for that. I'm boggled that anyone could confuse her with paranormal romance (although Kim Harrison's a pretty cool dude, I think). You'd have to be judging them by their covers, or seriously overrating the psychic-boyfriend thing, to think that they were anything like that. Though I've only read Threshold and Low Red Moon but they struck me as books using Lovecraftian motifs in a mainstream-literary style, early Angela Carter-ish maybe. If I did something to lump Caitlin Kiernan in with other urban fantasy I'm sorry 
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Jul 22, 2013 03:06
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Jedit posted:They really are not. The only major similarities between the Belgariad/Malloreon and the Elenium/Tamuli are that there's a magical blue stone, a wizardess and a nation of faux-Vikings. Beyond that, the characters in the Sparhawk books are entirely different apart from a few generic traits like "highly devout" or "good with his hands" and the focus of the story is much wider than the simple quest narrative of the Belgariad. Seriously? Both feature a warrior-mage protagonist who's fighting an evil god and a former ally-turned-traitor, with the help of his magic blue stone and a bantering band of archetypes. Along the way he gets married, becomes royalty, and is mentored by the stern-but-fair sorceress. It's a teensy bit more than just the generic fantasy tropes...
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Jul 22, 2013 03:56
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syphon posted:I don't know of anyone who's read Eddings' works didn't love them. Although I'm sure my saying that will cause lots of people to chime up with contrary opinions! It's definitely dated, cliched writing, but they're pretty good and an entertaining read. I read them as a young teenager and even as a young teenager I started to suspect that what I was reading was Not Good around the second book of the series. I still finished them because I was one of those kids walking around with his nose in a book but yeah... They're dated, cliched, formulaic writing with a juvenile streak a mile wide. The only characters David Eddings really writes well are intentionally juvenile characters; all the other characters are only accidentally juvenile.
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Jul 22, 2013 05:26
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Vinterstum posted:Seriously? Both feature a warrior-mage protagonist who's fighting an evil god and a former ally-turned-traitor, with the help of his magic blue stone and a bantering band of archetypes. Along the way he gets married, becomes royalty, and is mentored by the stern-but-fair sorceress. That's about the most generic description you could possibly give.
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Jul 22, 2013 12:59
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Jedit posted:That's about the most generic description you could possibly give. I dunno, he sounds pretty much right.
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Jul 22, 2013 13:41
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Eddings wrote the same series/book five times, just crossing out the names. That doesn't mean the books are bad or anything - they're decently written and interesting enough. But it's still the same story/characters, every time.
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Jul 22, 2013 14:19
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Piell posted:Eddings wrote the same series/book five times, just crossing out the names. That doesn't mean the books are bad or anything - they're decently written and interesting enough. But it's still the same story/characters, every time. Same thing happens with Modesitt's Recluce series, but I love the ever poo poo out of those books.
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Jul 22, 2013 14:49
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ed balls balls man posted:I dunno, he sounds pretty much right. The other series (Ruby Knight?) was okay but didn't have much grip for me, I don't think I finished the third book.
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Jul 22, 2013 15:28
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General Battuta posted:If I did something to lump Caitlin Kiernan in with other urban fantasy I'm sorry No, I meant how you called me on putting hardly any female writers in the first draft of the OP.
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Jul 22, 2013 17:33
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General Battuta posted:If I did something to lump Caitlin Kiernan in with other urban fantasy I'm sorry  It looks like something from the worst of the romance/urban fantasy wave. The Neil Gaiman blurb is nice though, it's cool that he's behind her.
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Jul 22, 2013 18:23
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coyo7e posted:He also doesn't mention that they even mostly have the same characters performing the same roles. I read the later series before the first one so it was a hilarious wake up to actually read a book that didn't have Belgarath and Polgara as everybody's nannies. I loved the series at 13, as a few other people have said as well. But what really killed it for me when I tried re-reading them a few years later, was that every single "good" character is pretty much identical to every other one in terms of personality. They talk the same way (or they always seem to murmur, for some reason), have the same sense of humor, and essentially don't develop at all throughout their respective series. I started on the first book in his last series (The Dreamers?) a few years back, and gave up in disgust after a few chapters revealed the exact same personalities and speech patterns as all his previous books. And I pretty much *never* actively stop reading a book once I start. That said, I've recommended Eddings to my younger relatives many times before and I'll keep doing so. They're good books, just for a young audience.
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Jul 22, 2013 18:49
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RightClickSaveAs posted:The Neil Gaiman blurb is nice though, it's cool that he's behind her.
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Jul 22, 2013 18:50
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calandryll posted:Same thing happens with Modesitt's Recluce series, but I love the ever poo poo out of those books.
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Jul 22, 2013 20:40
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How did John Steakley's Armor get published?? I'm kind of enjoying it but the Jack Crow parts are kinda really bad and the only parts I enjoy reading are about the cliche space marine badass king of another planet with a sweet name.
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Jul 22, 2013 20:50
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muike posted:How did John Steakley's Armor get published?? I'm kind of enjoying it but the Jack Crow parts are kinda really bad and the only parts I enjoy reading are about the cliche space marine badass king of another planet with a sweet name. It's a product of the 80s, the Crow parts were filled with early 80s cultural weirdness. The Jack Crow character definitely feels like nerdy author self-insertion though. It isn't a very good book but I enjoyed the Felix parts enough to muddle through. edit: whoops spelling The Gunslinger fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Jul 22, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 20:58
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I just feel like a 'tard every time I open up a new schlocky sci-fi book hoping for something literary instead of reveling in its pulpery. I mean I can appreciate that, but I always set myself up for disappointment.
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Jul 22, 2013 21:03
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muike posted:I just feel like a 'tard every time I open up a new schlocky sci-fi book hoping for something literary instead of reveling in its pulpery. I mean I can appreciate that, but I always set myself up for disappointment. The framing story has a decent payoff if that's any consolation.
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Jul 22, 2013 21:09
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muike posted:I just feel like a 'tard every time I open up a new schlocky sci-fi book hoping for something literary instead of reveling in its pulpery. I mean I can appreciate that, but I always set myself up for disappointment. You and me both, man. I want so much more out of my sci-fi these days. I'm thinking of trying John Varley again, but I've only read his short stories. His writing isn't up to Silverberg/Leguin quality, but he has a lot to say about being human. Anyone know if his novels are up to the same quality, or does his weird sex poo poo become too much to take at that length?
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Jul 22, 2013 21:47
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Is there anything out there even comparable to Ted Chiang? I just started reading Nexus by Namez Raam... it seems pretty good so far but it's too early to tell. I also am really tired of cheesy poo poo and wish there were more scifi that was "literary".
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Jul 22, 2013 21:51
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systran posted:I also am really tired of cheesy poo poo and wish there were more scifi that was "literary". As usual, though, it depends on what you mean by literary. Some people say literary when what they mean is good, or at least well-written. Others have in mind a sort of opaque style...by that measure, Chiang is not literary. To me, though, it means a well-written novel that is to a large degree (though not exclusively) about something other than the surface story, something deeper I guess, in which case Chiang still qualifies. Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe - It's Jack Vance meets Jorge Luis Borges in a strange, dreamlike narrative where a thousand moments that don't initially appear to make sense turn out to have a hidden order. New Sun can be read (initially allows itself to be read might be the best way to put it) as fantasy, but the (excellent in their own ways) follow-ons Long Sun and Short Sun are more explicitly science fiction. Fifth Head of Cerberus is a standalone novel about identity that is not to be missed if you have any affinity at all for Wolfe's writing. Light by M John Harrison - I think as a reader I'm pretty far toward the literary end of the SF spectrum, but I will reluctantly admit I actually bounced off this, deciding it was, well, a little too literary. I keep meaning to take another crack at it because critics I admire think a lot of this and its two sequels. Adam Roberts is another who maxes out this particular scale, though unusually for this sort of author he's very prolific and I'm not sure where the best place to start is. God's War by Kameron Hurley - Theoretically this is a novel about a bounty hunter punching people a lot, so it's not literary in the conventional sense, but underneath the violent surface story is an immense amount of thought put into the world and its sociology. Mostly talked about for what it says about gender, but I would argue the trilogy overall has even more to say about violence and the effect it has on individuals and society. Stand on Zanzibar by John Brunner - This paints an amazingly realized, if now outdated, future of overpopulation and conflict. The speculation (thankfully) didn't prove all that accurate, but today it remains thought-provoking, and while the writing style is difficult, it gives the book a serious punch and is still influential today. Yes, Dos Passos came up with the format, but if Brunner hadn't used it to such incredible effect in this novel no one writing SF today would know who Dos Passos was. Instead, just in the last year, David Brin and Kim Stanley Robinson wrote novels strongly inspired by it. Air by Geoff Ryman - A poor central Asian town struggles to adjust when the Internet finally arrives. Despite Ryman's reputation as a "mundane SF" author it resorts to some handwaving toward the end, but his depiction of ripples in the pond of small town life is fantastic and his portrayal of a non-Western culture was (to this Westerner, at least) totally convincing. Ian McDonald is probably the go-to "white guy writing Asia" SF author these days and could probably stand to be on this list, but I'm not quite as fond of him. Neuromancer by William Gibson - Gibson was writing about computers early but honestly the speculation here is nothing to write home about. Vinge's 1982 "True Names" and Brunner's 1975 (!) Shockwave Rider are much more impressive on that front. Gibson didn't actually understand much about computers, but he wrote so well it didn't matter. Many people hate the style, but it's given the book its longevity and penetration into liberal arts curricula. Unusually for a style-heavy book, the plot is actually pretty good, too. Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny - Hieronymous Alloy posted this one in the recommendations thread as a literary fantasy; I hadn't included it because I don't consider it fantasy. It's a fascinating novel about the meaning religion has when it's definitely not true. A little more high-spirited than the other books on this list, though; takes time out of its busy schedule to arrange a truly excruciating pun a few chapters in. Embassytown by China Mieville - Mieville in general and this novel in particular shouldn't need much introduction, but this is a novel length exploration of language and consciousness. I wasn't crazy about The City & the City but plenty of people were and it's definitely literary SF. The Bridge by Iain Banks - This surrealist piece is probably the most SF of his non-M "literary" novels (except Transition, which I loathed and so am going to ignore). His M novels are wonderful SF although I'm not sure how much the literary label really applies to them (unless we're just using it as a synonym for "good"). The best argument would probably be for Use of Weapons, but everyone who likes SF at all should read that regardless. Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M Miller Jr - Countless post-apocalyptic novels have been written since this was published in 1960 but for my money it's still the best. More off the beaten track, there's Voyage to Arcturus by David Lindsay, a very strange novel about philosophy and religion, and the sadly almost completely forgotten Gameplayers of Zan by MA Foster, a hugely impressive look at a non-human psychology and its sociological consequences. More generally, UK's Clarke Award is a juried award which in recent years has tended to be very literary in its values, so its shortlists are a good place to look for ideas. The Tiptree's shortlists might also be helpful, though they tend to be a little more obscure. Finally, there's always literary authors who (whether they admit it or not) are actually writing science fiction! 1984 and Brave New World are worth reading for their own merits even when you aren't in school any more, and more recently there's Atwood's Handmaiden's Tale and Oryx and Crake, Mitchell's Cloud Atlas, McCarthy's The Road, Calvino's Cosmicomics, and Ishiguro's Never Let Me Go. Lex Talionis fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 22, 2013 23:48
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Victorkm posted:You and me both. This also extends to the Imager and Spellsong series. Same plot summaries and character archetypes in every book/character arc. I haven't read his other stuff but man I wish he'd release another Recluce book.
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Jul 23, 2013 00:00
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