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Lex Talionis posted:Finally, there's always literary authors who (whether they admit it or not) are actually writing science fiction! 1984 and Brave New World are worth reading for their own merits even when you aren't in school any more, and more recently there's Atwood's Handmaiden's Tale and Oryx and Crake, Mitchll's Cloud Atlas, McCarthy's The Road, Calvino's Cosmicomics, and Ishiguro's Never Let Me Go.
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Jul 23, 2013 00:06
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calandryll posted:I haven't read his other stuff but man I wish he'd release another Recluce book. Good news! He's releasing another book about Cyador at some point soon*. His science fiction is also pretty good, but has the same 'sameness' about them that his fantasy does. I still like it though  .* Soon isn't really very well defined.
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Jul 23, 2013 00:12
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Lex Talionis posted:Finally, there's always literary authors who (whether they admit it or not) are actually writing science fiction! 1984 and Brave New World are worth reading for their own merits even when you aren't in school any more, and more recently there's Atwood's Handmaiden's Tale and Oryx and Crake, Mitchell's Cloud Atlas, McCarthy's The Road, Calvino's Cosmicomics, and Ishiguro's Never Let Me Go. Don't forget We by Yevgeny Zamyatin, which is the original Russian dystopian novel both George Orwell and Aldous Huxley based theirs on. Make sure you get the more recent Natasha Randall translation though. My friend has a different translation and when I told him about the metaphors that formed amazing literary motifs in the novel, he said he got nothing of the sort out of his copy.
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Jul 23, 2013 00:15
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calandryll posted:I haven't read his other stuff but man I wish he'd release another Recluce book. I really like both that I mentioned before.
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Jul 23, 2013 00:37
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Lex Talionis posted:Super useful post with good sci-fi Thanks a ton for this. I will make use of this list and bookmark it.
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Jul 23, 2013 02:41
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Stuporstar posted:You and me both, man. I want so much more out of my sci-fi these days. I'm thinking of trying John Varley again, but I've only read his short stories. His writing isn't up to Silverberg/Leguin quality, but he has a lot to say about being human. Anyone know if his novels are up to the same quality, or does his weird sex poo poo become too much to take at that length? Titanides come in two sexes, male and female. Both sexes have a rear vagina and uterus, and a large penis in the position where a horse's penis would be. Both sexes also possess humanoid breasts and can thus give birth to and suckle young. Male Titanides have a frontal penis analogous to a human penis, and female Titanides have a frontal vagina. While sexual intercourse using the horse organs is indulged in casually between individuals of all sexes, so-called frontal intercourse is reserved for intimate relationships. The product of frontal intercourse is always a small, spherical egg a few centimetres in diameter. These eggs are often kept as keepsakes or mementos of special occasions. They are sterile unless first treated with the Wizard's saliva. An egg which has been made fertile can be implanted in a rear vagina and "quickened" by rear intercourse. After that, the egg will develop into a young Titanide. All Titanides can have eggs implanted. The Titanide who receives the egg is called the "hindmother". The Titanide who quickens the egg is called the "hindfather". The Titanides whose original act of intercourse produced the egg are the "foremother" and "forefather". There is special case: a female Titanide may use semen from her ventral penis to produce an egg, transferring it by hand. If the egg is made fertile, she may then implant it in herself and quicken it with the same source of semen. The resulting offspring is a clone of the mother. Semen from the ventral penis can only produce an egg in the same individual who produces the semen. This is the so-called "Aeolian Solo" method of reproduction.
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Jul 23, 2013 03:30
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Hot drat, Locke Lamora was so good. I mean, the plot was great, even if the Gentlemen Bastards might be a little cliche, including Locke himself, but, the world built was just top notch. All I wanted to do was imagine other ways to enjoy it, particularly some type of The Guild type of game. Can't wait to read the next 2.
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Jul 23, 2013 04:02
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Hedrigall posted:Titanides come in two sexes, male and female. Both sexes have a rear vagina and uterus, and a large penis in the position where a horse's penis would be. Both sexes also possess humanoid breasts and can thus give birth to and suckle young. Post the chart.
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Jul 23, 2013 04:24
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General Battuta posted:The Endymion books commit the cardinal sin of actively making their predecessors less good. I agree with this whole heartedly. I I really hate the whole "oh yeah that thing you read about in Hyperion Cantos was just made up by uncle Martin and didn't really happen that way".
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Jul 23, 2013 06:18
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systran posted:Is there anything out there even comparable to Ted Chiang? I just started reading Nexus by Namez Raam... it seems pretty good so far but it's too early to tell. He isn't recommended here a lot because he's not really a science fiction writer, but you should give Vonnegut a try. His books are literary philosophical/satirical novels that happen to contain science fiction elements instead of the literary sci-fi books you're asking for, but I always thought that Ted Chiang had more in common with him than with other sci-fi writers. I'm actually pretty sure that Vonnegut is one of the main sources of inspiration of Chiang. Start with Sirens of Titan or Cat's Cradle.
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Jul 23, 2013 10:01
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RightClickSaveAs posted:Also that may not be a thing that happens, it could just be me making assumptions based on some of the covers. I mean look at this, would you buy this if you knew nothing about the author? These covers are really bad. I just started The Red Tree today. Kind of boring so far but I'm only 15% in.
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Jul 23, 2013 11:29
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Loving Life Partner posted:Hot drat, Locke Lamora was so good. Liar! quote:All I wanted to do was imagine other ways to enjoy it, particularly some type of The Guild type of game. Liar! quote:Can't wait to read the next 2. BASTARD! (If you don't understand this post, please go read the book.)
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Jul 23, 2013 12:24
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Lex Talionis posted:The Bridge by Iain Banks - This surrealist piece is probably the most SF of his non-M "literary" novels (except Transition, which I loathed and so am going to ignore). His M novels are wonderful SF although I'm not sure how much the literary label really applies to them (unless we're just using it as a synonym for "good"). The best argument would probably be for Use of Weapons, but everyone who likes SF at all should read that regardless. I just want to say that The Bridge has one of my favorite lines ever, and it's definitely a book that I feel the need to revisit at some point. But just wanted to say that this was a great post with really great recommendations. Does anyone have anything to say about Zelazny's short stories?
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Jul 23, 2013 17:34
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GrandpaPants posted:
The thing to remember about Zelazny is that he was constantly experimenting, and a lot of his short stories are experiments. Sometimes they're brilliantly successful and sometimes they aren't; reading each one is kindof a gamble. His single best short is probably "A Rose for Ecclesiastes", with "Museum Piece" also a personal favorite of mine, but I'd also recommend the short story collection I Am Legend (a bit of a four-part novel, with each "chapter" an independent short story featuring the same protagonist) for his sci-fi and the Dilvish, the Damned collection for his fantasy (same deal, nine short stories in sequence featuring the same protagonist). Really though Zelazny was strongest in his novels. Isle of the Dead, Creatures of Light and Darkness, Lord of Light, that's where you want to be with Zelazny.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:05
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Read Demonspawn and A Witch To Live by Glenn Bullion, and both were pretty good. Demonspawn wasn't terrific, but AWTL was pretty good. I'm kinda digging this guy's little universe he's making. Urban Fantasy/OMG VAMPS AND WITCHES ARE REAL kinda genre. Up next is a re-read of Jack Kursed, and then to the new one he has out, something like Demons and Doorways. The covers kinda suck, but at least the books are decent.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:53
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I couldn't even stand to read all that. I'd heard there were bizarre creepy sex centaur whatevers in Titan, but that poo poo is all shades of Tumbler level creepy. Think I'll skip that novel then.
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Jul 23, 2013 21:10
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Stuporstar posted:You and me both, man. I want so much more out of my sci-fi these days. I'm thinking of trying John Varley again, but I've only read his short stories. His writing isn't up to Silverberg/Leguin quality, but he has a lot to say about being human. Anyone know if his novels are up to the same quality, or does his weird sex poo poo become too much to take at that length? Varley's sex poo poo is weird only in that he takes some of today's taboo reductionings to their logical conclusions in a pretty much all-beige, all-space society a few hundred/thousand years hence. His few most recent novels, the Red [Thing] books, are pretty pulpy YA but fun for all of that. The Golden Globe, Steel Beach, and The John Varley Reader are three of my all-time favorite sci-fi reads, ever. My grandma gave me one of his very early short-story collections (the best of which are reprised in the Reader) when I was like 9 and my mind promptly exploded, and not just entirely from the weird sex poo poo. His world-building is really fantastic, and what I really like are his plausible extrapolations of things we're familiar with already today (Golden Globe both predicted poo poo like the 60x60x24x7x365 Twitter/social media news hell cycle as well as draws a decent concept of just how fuckin' terrible that sort of thing is going to be in 200 years) as well as his weird but intelligent explorations of some really odd sexuality issues that most authors just skate around (or handle terribly, POUL). He's got that weird Robot/Foundation thing going as well, where he has basically three separate, loosely-knit "series" that he's since even more loosely attempted to kinda sort meld into a coherent whole, but I've also read articles from him where he states that he doesn't always think of them that way so there's a lot of conflicting details across the canon even if, if you squint enough, it all holds together reasonably well. His and John Barnes' sci-fi just tickle my mind in a way few other authors manage to do.
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Jul 23, 2013 21:30
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Thanks for the other recommendations, guys. It got a little overwhelming honestly, but right now I'm about 280 pages into Magician(the one that is apprentice and the next book combined) and while at first it seemed to just merely hold my interest, it seems to be getting better as the war is ramping up. Between all the books in this series, and me intending on finishing Wheel of Time I think I'm set for a while.
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Jul 23, 2013 22:45
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Stuporstar posted:I couldn't even stand to read all that. I'd heard there were bizarre creepy sex centaur whatevers in Titan, but that poo poo is all shades of Tumbler level creepy. Think I'll skip that novel then. 
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Jul 24, 2013 00:19
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Ok, the use of musical modes in that chart makes it hilarious.smr posted:Varley's sex poo poo is weird only in that he takes some of today's taboo reductionings to their logical conclusions in a pretty much all-beige, all-space society a few hundred/thousand years hence. His few most recent novels, the Red [Thing] books, are pretty pulpy YA but fun for all of that. I don't actually mind how far Varley takes sexual liberation in all the short stories I've read. I have the collections The Persistence of Vision and Blue Champagne and loved them both. Sex-changing casual sex nudists in space is actually pretty cool. As far as future worlds are concerned, I'd much rather live in his universe than most other SF author's. I suppose I wanted to know if he reached Heinlein's Lazarus Long levels of self-indulgence though, because that got pretty hard to take over the course of too many novels, and the centaur thing (that requires a bloody chart!) kinda seems that way.
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Jul 24, 2013 01:00
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Scott Westerfeld is known primarily as a YA author, but I'm curious if anyone here has read his Risen Empire/Killing of Worlds duology. It is smart as gently caress and the prose, while unmannered and direct, is very, very smooth on the palate. The book's politics are interesting and progressive, the characters remarkably human for such a high-tech setting, he keeps everything tactile and kinetic despite the fact that the technology and action are appallingly sophisticated, and for a space opera book it's quite hard-SF in its sensibility beyond a couple soft conceits. The big space battle that runs through the second book is an absolute masterclass in how to render a duel between combatants closing at .01c and using drone weapons tense, exciting, and human. There is also a surprisingly touching and uncreepy romance between a posthuman commando and her impromptu captive, a baseline woman with unrecognized savant talents kept down by depression that manages to make a few subtle and effective political and philosophical arguments. This might be the best gateway New Space Opera I've ever read. General Battuta fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 01:15
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Yeah I really enjoyed those two. It's a shame he never went back to regular s.f. like that.
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Jul 24, 2013 01:22
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I started the Wheel of Time series last December and finally finished the final book this week. I was a little reluctant to get started on a long series that I'd heard slumped in the middle, especially coming off the Malazan series which I felt was incredibly strong all the way across. But I'm glad I did; I found a really enjoyable, character-driven story with an incredibly detailed and thought-out world. I may be fairly late to the party but I would definitely recommend that anyone on the fence of whether they should start the series should just go ahead and read it. There were definitely some slump periods (books 8-10 could have been collapsed into one book probably) but overall it was more than worth the ride. With that finished I'm looking for another long fantasy series to start. I've read and really liked: A Song of Ice and Fire by GRRM Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson Vlad Taltos series by Steven Brust First Law & related books by Joe Abercorombie The Gentleman Bastards by Scott Lynch anything by Tad Williams The Black Company by Glen Cook Amber books by Roger Zelazny and of course the Wheel of Time. What should I start with next? I've heard good things about Bakker's Prince of Nothing series but is there anything else I'm missing? The Ninth Layer fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 04:13
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Normally I would say 'read a book by a woman' but I actually don't know of any epic fantasy series by women that I would recommend off the top of my head, although I have heard that Elizabeth Moon is good...I must be missing something obvious. Curse of Chalion? Temeraire? (I haven't actually read either of these) e: Jesus Christ, Earthsea, which may be more influential on modern fantasy than Tolkien in some respects. Not sure you'll like it but you should read it anyway.
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Jul 24, 2013 04:25
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General Battuta posted:Normally I would say 'read a book by a woman' but I actually don't know of any epic fantasy series by women that I would recommend off the top of my head, although I have heard that Elizabeth Moon is good...I must be missing something obvious. Curse of Chalion? Temeraire? (I haven't actually read either of these) The Coldfire Trilogy by C.S. Friedman would qualify too. I wasn't too big on the Magister books (still have yet to read the last one) but the Coldfire books are some of my favorites. I'll give the Earthsea books a shot since I've heard of them but never checked them out. Any other recommendations are welcome! The Ninth Layer fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 04:31
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General Battuta posted:Normally I would say 'read a book by a woman' but I actually don't know of any epic fantasy series by women that I would recommend off the top of my head, although I have heard that Elizabeth Moon is good...I must be missing something obvious. Curse of Chalion? Temeraire? (I haven't actually read either of these) Male authors conspicuously absent from the original list who I'd recommend include Brandon Sanderson, Daniel Abraham, and David Anthony Durham. Even more conspicuous is the absence of Patrick Rothfuss, whose work I don't actually like but everyone else seems to love.
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Jul 24, 2013 05:07
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Seconding Elizabeth Moon's Deed of Paksenarrion and Paladin's Legacy series. Start with Sheepfarmer's Daughter and you won't stop until you get current.Lex Talionis posted:Even more conspicuous is the absence of Patrick Rothfuss, whose work I don't actually like but everyone else seems to love. I really don't understand how people think they're alone in not liking Rothfuss when the dude gets all kinds of hate in this very thread.
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Jul 24, 2013 11:44
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The Deed of Paksenarrion series isn't bad but it's very, very much D&D Campaign Fiction, her paladin even gets his horse at fourth level. For fantasy by women I'd also suggest Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley and (as a somewhat guilty pleasure) the first three Deryni books only by Kathyrn Kurtz. The Chalion books by Bujold are also really, really good. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 13:10
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calandryll posted:I haven't read his other stuff but man I wish he'd release another Recluce book. If you like Recluce you'll like Imager - they are.. pretty much the same, and the whole magic system makes slightly more sense (but ends up doing suspiciously similar things as the order/chaos magic in recluse in some cases). Modesitt is like a guilty pleasure of mine - I'm not sure if I'd ever say they're /good/ books or that I'd ever recommend them to people, but they are strangely entertaining - also they're pretty much unlike any other fantasy books I can think of (not counting other books by Modesitt  ). His protagonists are the biggest drat mary sues ever, but half his books are about how they use their mary sue magic powers to build nations and invent poo poo and have political stuff instead of standard fantasy epic battles and whatnot.Hieronymous Alloy posted:The Deed of Paksenarrion series isn't bad but it's very, very much D&D Campaign Fiction, her paladin even gets his horse at fourth level. I've never read Paksenarrion, but I've read a thing by the author about why she wrote the series,and if I recall correctly, it's not because she ever played D&D, but because she watched a group play it once and one of the people in the group was a paladin - and she was like 'man, that's a really stupid way for a divinely-blessed warrior to act, I'm going to go write a story that uses the idea of a paladin in a less moronic fashion'. Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 13:12
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The Ninth Layer posted:What should I start with next? I've heard good things about Bakker's Prince of Nothing series but is there anything else I'm missing? Prince of Nothing is worth reading. It's quite good in spots. It does feature some significant grimdark and it's take on women is pretty questionable for a series that is so strong in other regards, but if you liked the other stuff you listed and you don't mind grimdark, I would suggest you'll like it.
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Jul 24, 2013 13:43
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Wolpertinger posted:I've never read Paksenarrion, but I've read a thing by the author about why she wrote the series,and if I recall correctly, it's not because she ever played D&D, but because she watched a group play it once and one of the people in the group was a paladin - and she was like 'man, that's a really stupid way for a divinely-blessed warrior to act, I'm going to go write a story that uses the idea of a paladin in a less moronic fashion'. Hrm, maybe I should give it another chance and re-read it assuming it's a deconstruction. It just uses a lot of stuff that's very clearly drawing on the 1st Edition D&D manual, but I hadn't considered the possibility she was trying to deconstruct the idea.
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Jul 24, 2013 13:49
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^The Paksenarrion books have an entire (fairly long) section which is lifted directly from the Village of Homlett module from Gygax's Temple of Elemental Evil campaign. I don't really think Moon was using the tropes of D&D in a terribly sophisticated deconstructionist manner, really. That said, they are reasonably well-written page-turners, and are inoffensively written (no glaringly bad sections I can recall). I'd put them squarely into a 'popcorn books' category. I'd like to second the rec for A Prince of Nothing. The treatment of women in the novels is pretty problematic, but beyond that there's enough good stuff that it's definitely worth reading. There are a lot of neat ideas in it.
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Jul 24, 2013 14:32
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I started The Spirit Lens by Carol Berg yesterday and it's sucked me in. It's about a failed magician who works at the last college of magic in the world as a librarian who gets summoned by the king, a very distant cousin of his, to covertly investigate an assassination attempt on his life that he has reason to believe was carried out by a magician. The king gives him the queen's half brother, an empty-headed noble, to work with, and together they recruit a man who is apparently the only magician in the world who actually understands how magic works to help them. The backdrop is pretty cool, since while the magic system and its academic structure as a whole aren't entirely original, it's done very well. And it's the first book in a trilogy. e: My only gripe is the completely terrible cover art
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Jul 24, 2013 15:32
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regularizer posted:e: My only gripe is the completely terrible cover art The book looks really interesting though. I'm going to check it out, I need something new to read.
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Jul 24, 2013 16:42
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Lex Talionis posted:Robin Hobb's Farseer trilogy comes to mind. Patricia McKillip's Riddlemaster is another good one. If KJ Parker is a woman then the Engineer's Trilogy is pretty good too. Thanks for the recs! I've read Rothfuss and Sanderson and liked them well enough. With Rothfuss I felt like I was reading the journal of a broke college kid instead of some badass wizard hero and his pining over that one girl kinda got ridiculous. Sanderson writes a great magic system but his characters are some of the blandest I've ever read and he seems to have trouble with writing good antagonists (I honestly can't remember one from Way of Kings). I do like the grimdark stuff so I suppose I'll check out Prince of Nothing next, along with Earthsea and Farsser. Thanks everyone!
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Jul 24, 2013 17:33
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Lex Talionis posted:Robin Hobb's Farseer trilogy comes to mind.  If you're going to read Hobb, do Mad Ship, not that godawful boy quest novel about being an assassin means you have a lovely life, even if you have a magic dog you can talk to.
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Jul 24, 2013 17:46
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coyo7e posted:Why would you do this to someone who just read the entire WoT series, do you want him to kill himself? May as well tell him to plow through all of the Sword of Truth books, too! It's more "if you are a royal bastard you will have a lovely life." Basically every time Robin Hobb is mentioned you pop up to vent about it, the same exact way. The comparison to Sword of Truth is completely off-base, too. Sword of Truth is 10+ books about the same characters and the author's political views. Hobb basically has three linked trilogies, but you could stop reading at each one and have a decent ending. Farseer is three books (with their own ending); the Liveship books are three more with a whole different cast, and then the Fool books tie up the Farseer situation and work in a few threads from the Liveship books. After reading Wheel of Time, I think Hobb's more grounded fantasy kingdoms would be a reasonable next stop. Mad Ship's pretty fun, but I think Assassin's Apprentice is a fine place to start with Hobb's stuff - and if you don't like her writing/plots, you'll be able to tell pretty quickly.
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Jul 24, 2013 18:15
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Melanie Rawn's Dragon Prince series is my favorite fantasy series by a female author (that being said, now that Earthsea is available on Kindle that's on my backlog of things to read). I've touted her virtues in this thread before, but it seems like she's one of the only authors - male or female - who is able to write strong male and strong female characters who still maintain a healthy relationship with each other.
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Jul 24, 2013 18:38
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Just jumping into Red Seas Under Red Skies, already howling at Lynch's writing. The comedy in the card game was brilliant. Every time a deal happened and he'd talk about how terrible Jean and Locke's hands were slayed me. I think one line was like, "Locke smirked openly as he surveyed his cards, which were an amazing constellation of crap." It's a shame he didn't explore or expand the Capa of Vel Vizarro thread a bit. I was instantly intrigued at Jean starting a little gang of real thieves and taking over the city, but it just got hacked off so fast. Real shame.
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Jul 24, 2013 21:46
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Loving Life Partner posted:Just jumping into Red Seas Under Red Skies, already howling at Lynch's writing. The comedy in the card game was brilliant. Every time a deal happened and he'd talk about how terrible Jean and Locke's hands were slayed me. I think one line was like, "Locke smirked openly as he surveyed his cards, which were an amazing constellation of crap." I'd read a whole book of the two of them just travelling around the known world starting up thieves' guilds in different towns and cities with all the misadventures and complications that would result in. Who knows, maybe Republic of Thieves will be something like that. Lynch already seems to have a proclivity for writing novels in episodic form.
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Jul 24, 2013 21:52
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