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The Kins posted:The guy who makes Brutal Doom decided to do something non-Brutal for a change: This just looks so incredibly tedious. Bosses are a tough thing in FPS games. The original Icon of Sin fight isn't really about the boss so much as it is about the setup, so it's over pretty quickly and it's not too frustrating. Keep in mind that even a Cyberdemon can be felled with 2 meaty BFG shots, play any map by TimeOfDeath and you either get a knack for it or go home crying.
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Jul 23, 2013 03:14
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Yeah, so many of the mod-created Doom maps create bosses that are solely about figuring about or even exploiting arcane bits of AI. And for me, that just isn't very fun. Winter's Fury was the latest example of a "completely fun and playable levelset wrecked by ungodly difficult boss battles". And so many people fluff that off, but if we're willing to mark down developer AAA games for having unfocused difficulty curves, why in the world do mods get a free pass? I should be able to look at something like "Cold as Hell" For Doom and be able to say "This is completely awful because even the lowest difficulty is nigh unplayable to any who lack the highest of skills" without being shat upon. (I'm looking at you, Doomworld.)
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Jul 23, 2013 03:32
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Narcissus1916 posted:
I wouldn't say it has to do with high skills, but more so really loving awful game, enemy, level, and mechanical design; its really more about getting used to its bullshittiness and less about being a masterful doom player NoodleBox fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 04:14
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Finished Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil. It was enjoyable enough, the game encouraged a faster style of gameplay than it did for Doom 3, but that was mostly because the Double-Barreled shotgun and the time-slowdown power were such an incredibly powerful combination - especially once Berserk was added to it. That could one-shot Hell Knights at point-blank. The new enemies weren't that thrilling though. They did a reskin of the Lost Souls to make them look like the classic ones, the Vulgar was basically a replacement for the Imp that was more annoying. (You practically didn't see any regular Imps at all), and the Bruiser was just a Mancubus that could fit in more places. I didn't mind the gimmick bosses, and the final boss was a suitably epic challenge. The level design was so-so. There were tons and tons of locked doors and PDA's that needed to be found to get clearance, but unlike the base game, 90% of the PDA's had nothing interesting at all on them. Just locker codes at best, and only a handful had audio logs. It did get a bit tedious having so many locked doors and such. Lawman 0 posted:I like how SgtMkIV can't even beat his own boss. Not quite, he shot a monster at point-blank range (twice), putting him into "almost dead" range and he continued to shoot at the boss instead of looking for health. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Jul 23, 2013 |
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Jul 23, 2013 04:46
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Chiming in to say that Project MSX Beta 2 is loving awesome and should probably be renamed "Project Overkill" because holy gently caress, there are a bunch of ways to just gib the gently caress out of everything.  would be proud.
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Jul 23, 2013 05:29
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The craziest thing about project MSX to me is how everything seems to make monsters flinch. Just pumping autoshotgun rounds into a cyberdemon practically locks it down until you have to reload. I know Back to Saturn X is the go-to map pack to play MSX with but I still find myself wondering what a map tailor-made to test your newfound powers to their limits would be like. And also sometimes I wonder how Back to Saturn X would play in vanilla doom. I lost track of how many spider masterminds they threw at me in one map! 
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Jul 23, 2013 05:56
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Scyther posted:Even better idea: When after 30 or 40 minutes it's finally low on health, you flip the Icon Of Sin off and tell it to gently caress itself, and you jump up in third person and rip its brains out. Brutal Doom ftw. Doom the way it was meant to be played. You have redeemed yourself young man I think the nail shotgun needs one more shell.
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Jul 23, 2013 07:05
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Another ROTT 2013 pre-order here, and since I already have them, I have spare GOG keys for:
Enjoy, and let's keep the early FPS spirit alive!
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Jul 23, 2013 11:33
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The Kins posted:The guy who makes Brutal Doom decided to do something non-Brutal for a change: Drop the health to a fraction of what it is now and this is golden.
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Jul 23, 2013 12:38
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It's entirely possible that the health is so high because he's testing it.
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Jul 23, 2013 12:53
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horse mans posted:It's entirely possible that the health is so high because he's testing it. In other news! Bethesda have announced the 20th Anniversary DOOM Challenge, an Odamex-based Doom 2 tournament at Quakecon this year in which 128 players (first come first serve) will be wittled down to a final 32 who will duke it out for $1000 and a share of other, unannounced prizes. You can check out the rules book here.
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Jul 23, 2013 13:02
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Here's a decent podcast interview with one of the ROTT 2013 guys. It goes into development, how hosed they are if it doesn't sell, Kickstarter, and arm-wrestling a midget in a whorehouse. I should probably make a ROTT thread at some point soon. Maybe in a day or two? The Kins fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 13:35
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Dreamerdeceiver52 posted:Another ROTT 2013 pre-order here, and since I already have them, I have spare GOG keys for: don't have PMs but I'd take an extra key if you still have some, I already have the pack but I'd like to give it to a friend.
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Jul 24, 2013 14:02
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Brutal Doom is *so* much fun, I don't see any other way to play Doom and its WADs.
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Jul 24, 2013 14:03
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The Kins posted:Here's a decent podcast interview with one of the ROTT 2013 guys. It goes into development, how hosed they are if it doesn't sell, Kickstarter, and arm-wrestling a midget in a whorehouse. Please do, I'm getting pretty excited about the 31st now!
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Jul 24, 2013 17:50
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The Kins posted:Here's a decent podcast interview with one of the ROTT 2013 guys. It goes into development, how hosed they are if it doesn't sell, Kickstarter, and arm-wrestling a midget in a whorehouse.
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Jul 24, 2013 18:13
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Bouchacha posted:Brutal Doom is *so* much fun, I don't see any other way to play Doom and its WADs. I would love to see more integration with Brutal Doom and other mods and other monsters. You sort of have that with Brutal Doom lite, but imagine Brutal Doom operating at its fullest, compatible with other amazing mods? I wonder if it's possible to crowdsource something like that (like, I need this animation for this new bad guy, or I need this to be made compatible with this weapon)? Also, I hope the gaming industry is paying attention. Imagine the mechanics of Brutal Doom, in full 3D?
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Jul 24, 2013 19:54
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Ferretball posted:I would love to see more integration with Brutal Doom and other mods and other monsters. You sort of have that with Brutal Doom lite, but imagine Brutal Doom operating at its fullest, compatible with other amazing mods? Not to mention that there seems to be a little bit of resentment to Brutal Doom growing recently due to the altered gameplay causing a lot of idiots to bug mappers about their maps being too hard when they were balanced for the original game... (Samsara seems to be starting to attract this sort of crowd too. Popular mods tend to attract dumb people, sadly.) Ferretball posted:I wonder if it's possible to crowdsource something like that (like, I need this animation for this new bad guy, or I need this to be made compatible with this weapon)?  Ferretball posted:Also, I hope the gaming industry is paying attention. Imagine the mechanics of Brutal Doom, in full 3D?
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Jul 24, 2013 20:16
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The Kins posted:The ROTT guys are definitely paying attention, but then, a bunch of them are ZDoom alumni. That said, I don't think all the mechanics of Brutal Doom should be brought over - getting rooted to the ground as you go through a canned monster-dismantling animation while a bunch of powerful enemies gather around you isn't much fun after the first time. I think a good solution would be some kind of rage-gauge. You can only do fatalities when it's fully charged, and it forces other enemies to back off a few feet and stare in horror while you do it. Make it reward you with a large health boost and you've got an interesting gameplay mechanic rather than violence for violence's sake.
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Jul 24, 2013 20:21
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The Kins posted:The ROTT guys are definitely paying attention, but then, a bunch of them are ZDoom alumni. That said, I don't think all the mechanics of Brutal Doom should be brought over - getting rooted to the ground as you go through a canned monster-dismantling animation while a bunch of powerful enemies gather around you isn't much fun after the first time. Arguably the key to Brutal Doom isn't so much the mechanics as the execution. Shooting just some lowly random enemy is impactful and fun. Even the dumb goremonger stuff like locational damage and dismemberment adds some refreshing variety to the simple act of killing the same limited group of enemies, making combat feel less like bulletsponge "take x damage, fall down". The rebalanced weapons all make sense, and enemies were probably made harder to attempt to balance out the weapons instead of the other way round. The fatalities are definitely clunky gameplaywise, but they are amusing, surpising, and quite thrilling little breakpoints to the action. There's a sort of juvenile enthusiasm you get out of them that totally fits the theme of the original Doom and doesn't feel sadistic or gratuitous somehow - they're a video representation of how you feel after blasting through a particularly tough level: like some sort of rampaging wargod, a feeling also well captured by the Doom comic. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 20:22
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I wouldn't call a zombieman crawling around holding its entrails screaming for 5 minutes "refreshing variety".
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Jul 24, 2013 20:25
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erotic dad posted:I wouldn't call a zombieman crawling around holding its entrails screaming for 5 minutes "refreshing variety". It's the opposite of "shoot mans till they fall down," though. It messes with the pacing of a standard combat encounter where you run into a blob of zombiemen and kill them all instantly, returning the level to utter silence again. It emphasizes the size of the group you just fought / are still fighting versus you clinically blanking out the existence of an enemy immediately after it falls down. The point is to make the experience less sterile and less like lining up vectors with other vectors until a value hits zero and they disappear, a problem a lot of modern Doom imitators have. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 20:28
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The protracted 'bleeding out' animations for enemies in Brutal Doom are something I'd like to see altered. Not removed, but reduced to maybe a single cycle, and with the cries of pain reduced to about half their current volume. Make it a brief (under one second) pause as an enemy falls to their knees before keeling over, rather than hanging around waiting for you to use the glitchy Human Shield move on them.
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Jul 24, 2013 20:31
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I love Doom but Brutal Doom just feels so unnecessary.  The only feature I really enjoy is being able to flip monsters off and tell them to go gently caress themselves.
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Jul 24, 2013 20:58
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Always with Danny Glover's voice. As much as I love Michael Biehn voice acting for Blood Dragon, flipping the bird with good ol' Danny is truly an unique experience 
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Jul 24, 2013 21:03
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The Kins posted:Not to mention that there seems to be a little bit of resentment to Brutal Doom growing recently due to the altered gameplay causing a lot of idiots to bug mappers about their maps being too hard when they were balanced for the original game... (Samsara seems to be starting to attract this sort of crowd too. Popular mods tend to attract dumb people, sadly.) Samsara's always had its share of idiots, but it's only been recently that they've started actually harassing other mods because of it. For what it's worth, I'm really sorry about the dickweeds.  I'm surprised about how drat well self-contained Reelism and Russian Overkill has been, in comparison--practically nobody's been wanking around about it talking about how it was "robbed of popularity" or whatever. I'm wondering if that has anything to do with Reelism being more its own thing with its own levels and etc.
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Jul 24, 2013 22:32
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TerminusEst13 posted:I'm surprised about how drat well self-contained Reelism and Russian Overkill has been, in comparison--practically nobody's been wanking around about it talking about how it was "robbed of popularity" or whatever. I'm wondering if that has anything to do with Reelism being more its own thing with its own levels and etc. This is my theory, too. Reelism is such a contained package that it discourages the "spillover" demands that mods like Samsara and BD have. People aren't generally trying to (or wanting to) run Reelism in Scythe or Memento Mori.
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Jul 24, 2013 22:36
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Being able to mod Reelism and create new reels and game modes and maps would be amazingly awesome. And, if there's one thing Killing Floor has taught me, it's that Doom 2 E1M1 works startlingly well for Reelism-style monster swarms.
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Jul 24, 2013 22:52
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TerminusEst13 posted:Samsara's always had its share of idiots, but it's only been recently that they've started actually harassing other mods because of it. Well, the thing with Russian Overkill is that it blatantly incredibly unbalanced in the players favour, which leads to less balance whinging from that sort of crowd.
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Jul 25, 2013 02:24
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Dominic White posted:The protracted 'bleeding out' animations for enemies in Brutal Doom are something I'd like to see altered. Not removed, but reduced to maybe a single cycle, and with the cries of pain reduced to about half their current volume. Make it a brief (under one second) pause as an enemy falls to their knees before keeling over, rather than hanging around waiting for you to use the glitchy Human Shield move on them. The only other game I can think of that has this is GTAIV where enemies sometimes just fall to the ground and kinda whimper in pain. Bizarrely I think they actually removed it for the episodes.
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Jul 25, 2013 02:38
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Yodzilla posted:The only other game I can think of that has this is GTAIV where enemies sometimes just fall to the ground and kinda whimper in pain. Bizarrely I think they actually removed it for the episodes. There's a whole thing in GTA IV where you really have to go out of your way to actually 'kill' an NPC - I guess it was a subtle attempt at placating the Soccer mom crowd.
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Jul 25, 2013 02:47
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Yodzilla posted:The only other game I can think of that has this is GTAIV where enemies sometimes just fall to the ground and kinda whimper in pain. Bizarrely I think they actually removed it for the episodes. Also I think one of the early Call of Duties had it so occasionally enemies would fall down but then draw their pistols and keep shooting at you from the floor. Dunno, I like it when people look at ways to riff on the standard hitpoints and instant death mechanic in games. I think it's too mechanistic and predictable. I want every enemy to be a slightly uncertain threat at all times, even when you think they're finished. And also I feel like the player should feel uneasy or even suffer a little occasionally when they go around shooting people all the time in a game.
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Jul 25, 2013 02:51
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Cream_Filling posted:Also I think one of the early Call of Duties had it so occasionally enemies would fall down but then draw their pistols and keep shooting at you from the floor. They all do this. I think its pretty neat and I'm glad they keep it.
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Jul 25, 2013 02:53
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Yodzilla posted:The only other game I can think of that has this is GTAIV where enemies sometimes just fall to the ground and kinda whimper in pain. Bizarrely I think they actually removed it for the episodes. I did like the touch in GTA IV of having more "nonlethal" attacks like fists or baseball bats actually leave people alive but unconscious. Their health meter would go away and you couldn't do any further damage, but if you watched them for a bit they would actually move a little every so often. I think shooting them in the head from there would kill them, as in they'd no longer move around. Sooo, yeah. Kind of hosed up when I actually think about it. 
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Jul 25, 2013 03:02
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Now that I think of it Red Dead Redemption had a lot of that too which is kinda cool. Rockstar's Rage Engine/Euphoria implementation is pretty rad but apparently they're the only ones with a giant enough studio to support it.
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Jul 25, 2013 03:18
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The Kins posted:The guy who makes Brutal Doom decided to do something non-Brutal for a change: He's way too small. Icon of Sin is so huge his arms can span dozens of miles. Beyond the "oh cool it's the actual Icon of Sin" feeling from the first 30 seconds his charm dies off and it's basically Cyberdemon 2. The grand despot of Hell shouldn't be defeated by throwing rockets and plasma at him. If I were going to redesign Doom 2's final boss I'd make it take place on top of his body. Imagine Blood's E4M7 (In The Flesh) but taking place both inside and on the surface. A cavernous maze of biomechanical guts, UAC materials from Mars and Earth grafted into his body to power and sustain him. At the end you somehow drive his atronomically-huge head into a wall, trapping him there where you can finally jump into the hole in his head and destroy his brain.
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Jul 25, 2013 03:55
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So in other words Doom: Shadow of the Colossus.
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Jul 25, 2013 04:11
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Jul 25, 2013 04:18
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TerminusEst13 posted:Samsara's always had its share of idiots, but it's only been recently that they've started actually harassing other mods because of it. People threatening you ranging from posting your personal information to tracking you down and murdering you... because you're not adding a character to a mod for a game. Jesus Christ. As much as I like Blood, I really hope you never add Caleb just to spite these retards.
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Jul 25, 2013 05:02
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Chinese Tony Danza posted:As much as I like Blood, I really hope you never add Caleb just to spite these retards. Whoa let's not be crazy.
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