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I've been getting pretty good use out of archer retinues while my cap is under 5k, and then mixing in the good culture specific ones as my cap grows. Because their cap usage is so low, you get more dudes, and more troops is almost always the right choice.
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Jul 24, 2013 00:54
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Time from starting my first game to jailing my own brother and murdering my wife: 20 minutes.  Yeah this game is good. E: My son's betrothed is my aunt? Whatever it takes to get that county! 
100 degrees Calcium fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 02:31
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So as Caliph and Emperor of Arabia I gave my sons each a Kingdom or set of smaller Kingdoms so they would have to deal with poo poo themselves while I modestly hold Mecca and its duchy. Is this the right thing to do to make money and get troops? They deal with the infighting, I make sure they can't war each other, and I develop technology while planning on taking over the rest of the Arabian Empire and eliminating the Shia heresy. Meanwhile the Shia Caliph is my vassal, loves me, and cannot be converted- how do I deal with this? It would take around 1K gold to assassinate every last male heir in his family. side note I love when the Norse come in to invade, fail, and I capture their daughter to betroth to one of my grandsons after converting them and sending them packing back to their own country. This too has been my plan so that my relatives who have taken over East Africa have some African blood in them- to help legitimize their rule.
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Jul 24, 2013 02:54
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Okay, so this is kind of embarrassing, but is there a way to reset my claimant list? I was looking at the claimants for a region I wanted, and accidentally altered the order it displays... instead of displaying by next in line to inherit the claim, it displays by rank, or by name, or by any other setting I can find except by being next in line. That was really handy. 
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Jul 24, 2013 02:57
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marktheando posted:You guys are either evil, or forgetting about Sunset Invasion. Turn that off until you are experienced enough to deal with a horde of Aztecs. oh. It would be the latter. I keep it turned off unless I want to deal with it. Whoops, sorry.
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Jul 24, 2013 03:46
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At any rate, the effects of Sunset Invasion don't really come into play until hundreds of years into the game. I quit most of my games before then. I hate to repeat myself, but nobody answered my question on the previous page, so. Pakled posted:Has Paradox fixed the bug where Gavelkind has its order mixed up and gives the worst titles to the primary heir?
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Jul 24, 2013 03:53
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...I always thought that gavelkind issue was some hosed up "working as intended" design. Yeah it really sucks and it's still going on.
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Jul 24, 2013 03:55
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Trip report, AI super France has inherited the Byzantine Empire and is actually somewhat stable. They control France, Aquitaine, Britteny, Italy, Sicily, Pretty much all of the Anatolia Peninsula and the Caucuses, Greece and Croatia and parts of southern England and Burgundy. There is pretty much noone that can stand up to them, although fortunately Scotland successfully rebelled before France inherited.  Pakled posted:At any rate, the effects of Sunset Invasion don't really come into play until hundreds of years into the game. I quit most of my games before then. I know that they have at least fixed it so that your capitol will go to your primary heir rather than your second son, but other than that I dont know.
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Jul 24, 2013 04:03
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Bloody Pancreas posted:...I always thought that gavelkind issue was some hosed up "working as intended" design. Yeah it really sucks and it's still going on. I'm like 90% sure it wasn't like this before the update that came with The Old Gods, and it doesn't make any sense the way it currently is, so it's gotta be a bug. It's just annoying to be forced to either never create any titles equal to your highest-level title (which I hate doing since it's so gamey) or give up 80% of your holdings every time your ruler dies.
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Jul 24, 2013 04:08
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Gavelkind wouldn't be so bad if you could actually designate who gets what.
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Jul 24, 2013 04:11
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Pakled posted:I'm like 90% sure it wasn't like this before the update that came with The Old Gods, and it doesn't make any sense the way it currently is, so it's gotta be a bug. You can actually have as many high level titles as you want, as long as you only have one holding. Your other kids need to either already have, or receive land upon your death in order to get one of your kingdom or duchy titles. If you only have 1 holding, your firstborn gets it all.
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Jul 24, 2013 04:17
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Pakled posted:I hate to repeat myself, but nobody answered my question on the previous page [regarding gavelkind] To elaborate on this further, and as nearly as anyone can tell, titular titles are more heavily weighted than counties so it's WAD when your firstborn gets the kingdom, the duchy containing the capital province and just a single county (hopefully the capital province) while your other son gets all the other duchies and 8 counties. The 'losing capital on succession' gavelkind bug has only been partially fixed and can still easily occur when the succession algorithm encounters an edge case (death of firstborn, second son becomes primary heir, but firstborn had son of his own (your grandson) and OOPS, capital province goes to your grandson and not your second son, primary heir and player character). As Kersch just mentioned, the easiest way to 'defeat' gavelkind is to always hold just one county. Titular titles cannot go to unlanded characters, so if you have an empire title, 4 kingdoms, and 2 duchies but only one county... welp, firstborn gets everything, suck it kids!
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Jul 24, 2013 04:59
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Well, just wrapped up my first game. Sort of. I ended up spending most of it feeling really locked down. My ability to establish alliances or put myself in position of meaningful inheritance was stunted by my complete inability to marry outside of my court. It's like they all knew I'd send the assassins to Ossory or Leinster as soon as I got a kid in their house. I tried increasingly distant degrees of inheritance to "fool" them, but it didn't matter. I could not arrange a single marriage outside of Dublin. That is until the Count of Ossory offered to marry my unwed daughter. Desperate for alliances, I accepted. Within a year, the new Countess of Ossory was plotting to murder my son. That's cold. In a fit of cruel desperation, I ended up pressing my claim on Leinster, believing my Nephew who owned that particular region was too wrapped up in the Crusade he had raised levies for. Apparently he had some unseen resources though, because as soon as my levvies stepped over the border, he pummeled the poo poo out of me. Already mega low on Prestige from the betrayal I had committed, I had to go into nearly -100 AND give up my claim to get out of that fight. That's when I left. I think maybe my problem was I just didn't have enough Diplomacy. I might try again and prioritize that stat and see if that earns me any clout.
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Jul 24, 2013 05:00
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How do I stop my upstart vassals from chain-allying half of my goddamn kingdom into revolt? I have pretty good relations with most of them but there's always an rear end in a top hat or two who join a faction and try to rebel. If it matters, Im playing as a Russian Orthodox king ruling de jure Ruthenia+Rus. My king has worthless base stats but his traits shouldn't cause diplomatic penalties.
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Jul 24, 2013 06:00
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Pakled posted:I'm like 90% sure it wasn't like this before the update that came with The Old Gods, and it doesn't make any sense the way it currently is, so it's gotta be a bug. But that is how gavelkind really worked?  You see it at the Old Gods start date, with the Karlings each controlling one kingdom of Charlemagne's empire, because it was divided between his grandsons (he himself had only one son). Anyway, as long as you are able to expand there is no problem with gavelkind. If you are the king and have three sons, you only need to give your younger sons a duchy and the respective counties, while you hold only one duchy yourself. Your firstborn will inherit your kingdom, the duchy and all counties in your duchy, while your younger sons will inherit nothing (since they already have a duchy each). There is no chance you will lose your capital or anything.Leb posted:Archers are actually pretty great units. Since only archers/horse archers do any appreciable damage during the skirmish phase of combat, a retinue comprised of around 50% archers should ensure that most battles are decided before the melee phase even begins and as long as your archer composition stays below 60% in a given flank, you shouldn't be vulnerable to the 'charge on undefended' tactic. Also, as you mentioned, sieges are won with skirmishers and with many playstyles, you'll be well served by the ability to assault during sieges without suffering massive casualties (blitzkrieg holy wars before the HRE stirs from its slumber, e.g.). This is very true, I had fantastic success with an army consisting only of Welsh longbow retinues. They get a +60% attack modifier, and there is a tactic that gives +400% attack as well. My enemies were regularly destroyed in the skirmish phase, with my army taking minimal losses. Then one day I fought against an army which was a bit too big, they got into the melee phase and after the charge I had only a very small army left. To learn from the story: You need at least 50% non-archers if you want to be save from something like that. But if you have cataphract retinues then you should probably only hire cataphracts, the regular troops can do the sieging, while your retinues mercilessly crush any opposition. Torrannor fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 06:22
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edit: ^^^^ efb  Another thing about Gavelkind is that, if you are a King only holding one kingdom title, you can conquer land and give it away to your non-first son. As Sigurdr Snake-in-the-eye I had 5 male children that survived to adulthood. When Sigurdr died his first son inherited the Kingdom of Denmark, the Duchies of Jylland and Holstein, and the counties of Sjaelland, Fyn, Jylland, Slesvig, Holstein, Hamburg, and Lubeck. As the non-first sons came of age, they were granted three counties and a duchy (one in England (this son later died of Pnemonia without an heir so his land returned to me; I gave that land to another son who was waiting for his plot), one in Ireland, and one in Pomerania). Thats three counties and a duchy and it took them out of the main inheritance line. The first son inherited the Kingdom title, two duchies, and 8 counties simply because I gave the other sons three counties and a duchy as I conquered more land.
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Jul 24, 2013 06:27
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Torrannor posted:But that is how gavelkind really worked? The intended behavior in Gavelkind is the lion's share of titles go to your firstborn, then fewer to your secondborn, then fewer to the thirdborn and so on. But right now, it's bugged and your firstborn gets the fewest titles. The example that prompted my question happened just today. My Duke had 4 Duchy titles, 5 County titles, and 2 sons. According to the tooltip, when he dies, 3 of duchies and 3 of those counties are going to the secondborn son, leaving my primary heir, the one I'll play as when my character dies, with a piddly 1 duchy and 2 counties, surrounded on 2 sides by his much more powerful younger brother. I don't want to have to practice gamey territory splitting just to avoid losing 75% of my holdings every generation. I would be totally alright with rocking Gavelkind for the entire game if it meant losing a Duchy for every younger son as a Duke, or losing a Kingdom as a King who happened to gain two crowns and has two sons, and maybe occasionally I'll get a particularly fertile royal couple and end up with my empire totally fractured between squabbling brothers, but as it stands now, you either hold your territories in this exact way, or you put up with starting over again as a 2-county duke every generation until you get a king title.
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Jul 24, 2013 07:03
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Pakled posted:The intended behavior in Gavelkind is the lion's share of titles go to your firstborn, then fewer to your secondborn, then fewer to the thirdborn and so on. But right now, it's bugged and your firstborn gets the fewest titles. The example that prompted my question happened just today. My Duke had 4 Duchy titles, 5 County titles, and 2 sons. According to the tooltip, when he dies, 3 of duchies and 3 of those counties are going to the secondborn son, leaving my primary heir, the one I'll play as when my character dies, with a piddly 1 duchy and 2 counties, surrounded on 2 sides by his much more powerful younger brother. From what I can ascertain, that's not actually a bug, per se. The game weights your primary title higher than your secondary titles, and if your primary title is merely a petty kingdom/duchy and you have multiple duchies, then, yeah, you get to keep your primary duchy and the lands within the duchy (which should include the capital province) while your other son will get the rest of the "lesser" duchies. From what I've read on the forums, it seems that this is the behavior that PDS intends. quote:I don't want to have to practice gamey territory splitting just to avoid losing 75% of my holdings every generation. I would be totally alright with rocking Gavelkind for the entire game if it meant losing a Duchy for every younger son as a Duke, or losing a Kingdom as a King who happened to gain two crowns and has two sons, and maybe occasionally I'll get a particularly fertile royal couple and end up with my empire totally fractured between squabbling brothers, but as it stands now, you either hold your territories in this exact way, or you put up with starting over again as a 2-county duke every generation until you get a king title. Yeah, gavelkind really highlights the player/character dissonance in a way that few other game mechanics do. As the player, you're sure as poo poo not going to want to lose those duchies on succession, so you're going to do gamey things like never create multiple ducal titles until you hold a kingdom title or only hold one landed title so that gavelkind won't start splitting up your high-level titular titles. As the actual character, of course you'd create the ducal titles (the prestige!) and you'd keep your demense as large as possible and you'd generally want to equitably split up your estate between your beloved children and so on.
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Jul 24, 2013 07:40
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First and second sons both get tutored by 20 dip grey eminence, first son becomes amateurish plotter, second son becomes grey eminence. Crusader Kings!
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Jul 24, 2013 08:26
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RabidWeasel posted:First and second sons both get tutored by 20 dip grey eminence, first son becomes amateurish plotter, second son becomes grey eminence. Crusader Kings! When your first son takes over make your brother your spymaster and designate him court jester, wait for him to murder you and enjoy your grey eminence ruler!
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Jul 24, 2013 08:38
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Torrannor posted:When your first son takes over make your brother your spymaster and designate him court jester, wait for him to murder you and enjoy your grey eminence ruler! Or ultimogeniture, that's always a less murdery option.
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Jul 24, 2013 08:48
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Pakled posted:The intended behavior in Gavelkind is the lion's share of titles go to your firstborn, then fewer to your secondborn, then fewer to the thirdborn and so on. But right now, it's bugged and your firstborn gets the fewest titles. The example that prompted my question happened just today. My Duke had 4 Duchy titles, 5 County titles, and 2 sons. According to the tooltip, when he dies, 3 of duchies and 3 of those counties are going to the secondborn son, leaving my primary heir, the one I'll play as when my character dies, with a piddly 1 duchy and 2 counties, surrounded on 2 sides by his much more powerful younger brother. No intended gavel-kind behaviour is that the titles are split evenly between all sons, with the eldest getting first dibs so he inherits primary titles. Rumda fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 08:59
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I'm playing CK2+ so I can always plot assassinate my firstborn too 
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Jul 24, 2013 09:00
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Gotta ride out the lovely kings doing lovely king things. Have a dumb, cruel, wroth heir? Time to start banishing and executing.
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Jul 24, 2013 09:14
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Rumda posted:No intended gavel-kind behaviour is that the titles are split evenly between all sons, withn th eledest getting first dips so he inherits primary titles. Sooo... Gavelkind is working as intended?
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Jul 24, 2013 09:32
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RabidWeasel posted:I'm playing CK2+ so I can always plot assassinate my firstborn too Heh. I feel like infanticide is way too difficult in vanilla. I mean, let's say you're a Norse ruler and your primary heir is born an imbecile or inbred. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't say to yourself, "Curse you Odin, my son is an abomination, but alas, I'm bound by a strict system of land tenure which prevents me from disinheriting my son and also prevents me from plotting to murder my son!"
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Jul 24, 2013 09:58
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Or you could just give your extra titles away to more distant relatives and not worry about how Gavelkind is going to distribute your holdings.
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Jul 24, 2013 09:59
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Following up the discussion on pressing your courtier's claims, the tooltip says you will only gain control if the person whose claim you're pressing is part of your dynasty, which I assume means they have my family name. Since most of my court and vassals have a different name, I've not bothered doing this. Am I doing it wrong?
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Jul 24, 2013 11:49
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That, or if the claimant is a vassal of yours. For instance in my last game I was the Duke of Deheubarth, and my vassal the Count of Glamorgan had a claim on the county of Powys, next door. I pressed his claim and he gained Powys, which is outside my de jure duchy, but because he's still my vassal and he's still lower rank than me, Powys becomes part of my realm. So if one of your courtiers has a nice claim, you could try giving them land first and then pressing their claim. I think this also works if the land they're claiming is part of your de jure realm, whether they are your vassal or just a courtier.
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Jul 24, 2013 11:55
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A note, though. Their currently held land has to be of an equal or higher rank than the claim you're pressing, or they'll become independent and take your land with them.
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Jul 24, 2013 11:59
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That's really useful, thanks!
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Jul 24, 2013 12:18
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So what's the strategy for trying to unify two kingdoms with brother kings (both in my dynasty)? Or is there no real strategy? I want to make some empires.
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Jul 24, 2013 14:21
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Cream_Filling posted:So what's the strategy for trying to unify two kingdoms with brother kings (both in my dynasty)? Or is there no real strategy? I want to make some empires. Assassination. Lots of assassination.
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Jul 24, 2013 14:27
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Cream_Filling posted:So what's the strategy for trying to unify two kingdoms with brother kings (both in my dynasty)? Or is there no real strategy? I want to make some empires. Could always marry your eldest son to his eldest daughter, then assassinate all of his male children (if they exist). Their progeny will be king of both lands. Crusader Kings 2: advocating murder and incest since 1066.
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Jul 24, 2013 14:56
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I feel really bad about myself. I was doing remarkably well as the Marzpanate of Gilan. I'd holy warred the Shia Caliph and the minor Sunni duke to the south of me and had formed quite a nice duchy. But then I got holy warred by three different guys which threatened to game over me. So instead, I just said "gently caress this", cheated myself 5000 gold, and hired the three biggest mercenary groups I could find, and just spent the next few years kicking rear end and carving Persia up by force. I would've converted, but that apparently converts every single person below me as well.
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Jul 24, 2013 15:04
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TaurusTorus posted:Or ultimogeniture, that's always a less murdery option. Yeah but who wants less murdery?
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Jul 24, 2013 15:09
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Cream_Filling posted:So what's the strategy for trying to unify two kingdoms with brother kings (both in my dynasty)? Or is there no real strategy? I want to make some empires. If your dynasty's not too big, you could always try seniority succession. Of course you can't get the other kingdom to switch to it, but you can stab your way to your brother becoming your heir, or you can keep with seniority until they're both in the same specific branch of the dynasty and both will eventually be inherited by the same person.
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Jul 24, 2013 15:11
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Ofaloaf posted:
The last province, the null one, has to be moved up above the sea provinces. You can't have any land after sea_starts. max_provinces has to be the last province plus 1. Make sure provinces.bmp is saved as a 24-bit bitmap without color space information (if you're using GIMP, "do not write color space information" in the export dialog should be checked).
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Jul 24, 2013 15:23
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Re: Inheritance It would be cool if you could designate a different heir from your son, and balance it with a big prestige hit for him + major opinion hit. They'd still have the ability to press their claims, and with the faction/adventurer system seems like it would work fairly well. You could also have it basically be like changing your inheritance laws where you have to meet certain requirements (like vassal loyalty to do it.)
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Jul 24, 2013 17:16
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Evil Sagan posted:Well, just wrapped up my first game. Sort of. You can usually see why people will not accept marriages in tooltips. It is also helpful to see who your family is and who you might inherit from. (As the leader of Dublin at the second start date, you are in position to inherit a county to your south when your father dies.) You should also fabricate claims, especially on places that would give you the ability to create duchies which would give you claims on even more counties, etc. You start with Kildare and work out from there. Marriage isn't the only option. In fact, it's the most restricted.
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Jul 24, 2013 18:39
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