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Paul MaudDib posted:That's largely what Maher is trying to do, and you react badly to it because you're steeped in a culture where Real America's intolerances are casually tolerated. Maher wants a world where being a regressive idiot gets you savagely mocked on television or around the water cooler. Yeah, he's an rear end in a top hat in plenty of ways himself, but that's just fodder for someone else to savage him. Welcome to a world where debates aren't highly scripted affairs where everyone simply tries not to make a gaffe. I would be more willing to believe this if Maher himself didn't regularly use sexist, racist, and other regressive statements himself. He doesn't attack these people because they are wrong, but because they are socially weaker than him.
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Jul 24, 2013 17:02
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I would be more willing to believe this if Maher himself didn't regularly use sexist, racist, and other regressive statements himself. Maher's definitely an rear end in a top hat and it's entirely in the same spirit as he uses to point it out. Go for it, shame him into not being a regressive rear end in a top hat. Be The Most Maher You Can Be. Mel Mudkiper posted:He doesn't attack these people because they are wrong, but because they are socially weaker than him. How so? Take, for example, his documentary Religulous. Please elaborate on how atheism is the socially dominant position in America in the Year Of The Lord 2008 and Christians and other religious individuals are socially weak? Go ahead, I'll wait.  And that's four years after his documentary! Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 17:07
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Seriously the idea of someone saying Maher is some kind of progressive warrior is insane. The man is a huge sexist, racist, classist, blowhard.
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Jul 24, 2013 17:08
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I would be more willing to believe this if Maher himself didn't regularly use sexist, racist, and other regressive statements himself. I think you're oversimplifying Maher's character. He attacks those people because they are wrong and because they are socially weaker than him. He's an rear end in a top hat who tries to make up for it by aiming his spite in what he sees as a socially productive direction.
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Jul 24, 2013 17:08
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I cooled to the Daily Show when I realized they wouldn't take any stance on an issue and would simply mock news outlets reporting it. I like Colbert because I'm pretty sure his "where's that war again?" Shtick about Afghanistan is the most coverage it's getting in the media. He may be repeating the same bit "I'm a conservative pundit!" but it hasn't gotten old for me because the right keeps doing more and worse dumbfuckery. EDIT As for Maher: Every clip I've seen makes me aggravated and I don't have his network on TV. What is it HBO?
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Jul 24, 2013 17:09
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Paul MaudDib posted:How so? Take, for example, his documentary Religulous. Please elaborate on how atheism is the socially dominant position in America in the Year Of The Lord 2012 and Christians and other religious individuals are socially weak? Watch that movie again, when he is talking to another educated upper class person he has a facade of respect, the only people he treats like shits directly are people like the truck drivers who have neither the education or social positioning to really fight back.
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Jul 24, 2013 17:11
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Yea Maher sure fought for the oppressed minorities in Religious, like when he spent a ton of time just parroting right wing islamophobic rhetoric and when in his show he spouted such bullshit as 'most Muslims think it's ok to kill someone who insults the prophet' or when he did the normal 9/11 reactionary shitheadness of going full on anti-muslim for easy ratings. Oh I'm sorry we're talking about the mostly white, educated, middle class, minority he's fighting for.
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Jul 24, 2013 17:16
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned his dumb as dogshit stance on vaccines. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-maher/vaccination-a-conversatio_b_358578.html
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Jul 24, 2013 17:16
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Fandyien posted:I'm surprised nobody has mentioned his dumb as dogshit stance on vaccines. But we need alternative opinions on vaccines! Like, from people who aren't doctors! I'm just asking questions! This is the kind of poo poo I expect from Right Wing media, jesus Bill.
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Jul 24, 2013 17:22
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I want to make a game called Bill Maher or Rush Limbaugh quote, even if I didn't stack the deck with his misogyny and islamophobia and poo poo I'm pretty sure I can make it a decent challenge.
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Jul 24, 2013 17:24
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For all the poo poo The Daily Show and NPR get for being "fake left", the Huffington Post is probably the most sinister internal enemy the American left wing has. Fox wishes it could be that dedicated to partisan cheerleading and anti-intellectualism. Its consistently the dumbest single website on the internet.
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Jul 24, 2013 17:26
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Are we really arguing about which TV man is 'good'? Watch 'Network' - it is all a circus. TDS is only different because it outs the 'serious' TV news as being a show.
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Jul 24, 2013 17:27
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Mel Mudkiper posted:For all the poo poo The Daily Show and NPR get for being "fake left", the Huffington Post is probably the most sinister internal enemy the American left wing has. I find their "BIG DUMB SENSATIONALIST HEADLINE RIGHT AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE AND SOMETIMES IN RED TEXT" strategy eerily similar to the kind of stuff Drudge does, yeah. Just another unreliable news source, I suppose.
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Jul 24, 2013 17:30
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I don't really get all the Maher/Moore hate, particularly. Olberman either. Every debate on media always seems to degenerate into a Maher derail, especially. I can see why they could grate on people and rub people wrong, but all three of those guys, as well as Stewart and Colbert, put their money their mouths are when the chips are down, which is more than I can say for Hannity and Rush and Coutler, etc. They don't, as a group, strike me as mere opportunistic shills who will say and do anything just for a paycheck. A lot of what they do takes real bravery and strength of character. I think they largely believe in what in they say and take what comes with saying it and doing it which, again, I don't think applies to most of the right wing media types.
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Jul 24, 2013 17:34
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I want to make a game called Bill Maher or Rush Limbaugh quote, even if I didn't stack the deck with his misogyny and islamophobia and poo poo I'm pretty sure I can make it a decent challenge.
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Jul 24, 2013 17:36
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I used to keep a list of intellectually offensive articles that made the front page of their books section. I finally ragequit after their top article was "Cupcakes inspired by books!"
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Jul 24, 2013 17:36
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Devour posted:So how would Bill Maher be able to criticize Islam without being called an Islamophobe? STEP 1: Do not dehumanize Muslims STEP 2: Pretty much just keep doing step 1
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Jul 24, 2013 17:38
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Monkey Fracas posted:I find their "BIG DUMB SENSATIONALIST HEADLINE RIGHT AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE AND SOMETIMES IN RED TEXT" strategy eerily similar to the kind of stuff Drudge does, yeah. Just another unreliable news source, I suppose. More than that, really. Arianna Huffington has been fairly right wing her whole life, and basically only got involved in the democratic side of things because she saw a niche to be filled.
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Jul 24, 2013 17:40
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Mel Mudkiper posted:STEP 1: Do not dehumanize Muslims Devour fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jul 24, 2013 |
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Jul 24, 2013 17:51
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Devour posted:So how would Bill Maher be able to criticize Islam without being called an Islamophobe? Well for one he could not do poo poo like this http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/09/23/bill_maher_on_islam_all_religions_are_not_alike.html quote:"The point that Ayaan was making -- this is her Newsweek cover about a week ago (photo of cover) and there a lot of people who reacted to this, 'How dare you do this?' Well, you know that the problem is that liberals see this picture and they go 'this is not all Muslims.' And that is very true. Most Muslims don't go in the street like this. The point that she is making, that I've tried to make, is yeah, but most Muslims, at least half of them, I think, around the world think it is okay to kill somebody if they insult the prophet. And that is a big problem," he said. All Muslims don't want to kill people, just MOST of them, said the progressive warrior for religious equality.
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Jul 24, 2013 17:52
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Devour posted:Bill Maher will actually engage in an honest a debate with somebody, and he's also very vocal and opinionated about his views unlike Dumb & Dumber on comedy central. He's no more irreligious nor sexist than the average celebrity in Hollywood and I also enjoy how he consistently trashes the terrible infrastructure of America along with Healthcare as a whole when compared with other first world nations. Bill Maher's style of debate is "Disagree with me, then gently caress YOU" and literally walking away. In his lovely movie about religion he got up and walked away from the anti-Zionist rabbi instead of actually debating him. On his show when Chris Matthews talked about staying in Jerusalem and how people live there day by day Bill Maher called him an idiot and said that Islam is too old for the world which is hilarious because it's the second newest religion in that part of the world (The newest being the Bahá'í Faith)! Bill Maher also rallied against vaccination, is for partially privatizing Social Security, pro racial profiling, and pro death penalty so all around he's piece of loving poo poo.
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Jul 24, 2013 17:54
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Nobody watches Bill Maher so they can hear Bill Maher's opinions. The value in his show lies in the (sometimes) intelligent guests who have well-thought out arguments. Some of the best moments on Real Time are when one of Bill's guests tells him to shut up because he's being racist or ignorant.
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Jul 24, 2013 18:00
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Yea no one listens to Maher for Maher, that's why he's never written a book or a movie that's sold well.
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Jul 24, 2013 18:06
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Devour posted:This is incredibly vague? He consistently trashes every religion currently in existence. He also frequently lampoons political correctness in which he sees surrounding criticism of Muslims, which is what I think you're getting at here. So when Bill pointed out to that professor that the Book of Islam couldn't have been done on Broadway the same way the Book of Mormon was, he was bigoted in doing so? Can you just tell us what type of infallible evidence you want us to use so that we can satisfy your standards of argument? I understand that you're just asking questions and refusing to budge on the simplest of simple things; however, there's been at least half a dozen arguments made in favor of Bill Maher being an Islamophobe, sexist, classist, and general libertarian moron.
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Jul 24, 2013 18:10
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Devour posted:This is incredibly vague? He consistently trashes every religion currently in existence. He also frequently lampoons political correctness in which he sees surrounding criticism of Muslims, which is what I think you're getting at here. So when Bill pointed out to that professor that the Book of Islam couldn't have been done on Broadway the same way the Book of Mormon was, he was bigoted in doing so? My problem is that when he condemns Islam he is not condemning a limited interpretation of a doctrine by a particular sect of that faith, he is condemning it as some evil brown-skinned cultural barbarism. He also significantly overplays the "danger" of Muslims. Sorry, but half of the Muslim world does not believe its ok to kill someone for insulting the prophet any more than half of Catholics think its morally just to bomb an abortion clinic. He treats the violence of other religions like Judaism and Christianity as "extremism" but the violence of Islam as "normalcy."
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Jul 24, 2013 18:11
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Phone posted:Can you just tell us what type of infallible evidence you want us to use so that we can satisfy your standards of argument? I understand that you're just asking questions and refusing to budge on the simplest of simple things; however, there's been at least half a dozen arguments made in favor of Bill Maher being an Islamophobe, sexist, classist, and general libertarian moron. I don't care if he's renounced it or not. His views on vaccines make him as dangerous as the people he loves to pretend are murdering millions with religion. I mean if words they say about some deity is trampling on the humanity, libertarianism of the masses then surely his crackpot views on medicine and germ theory are just as hosed?
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Jul 24, 2013 18:12
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Nonsense posted:I don't care if he's renounced it or not. His views on vaccines make him as dangerous as the people he loves to pretend are murdering millions with religion. Yea it is cute that he does the whole "RELIGION KILLS SO MANY PEOPLE IT'S ALL BAD" but literally tells people we need to be skeptical of vaccines. I'm just saying odds are decent Maher has a higher death count than the average Muslim.
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Jul 24, 2013 18:13
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Devour posted:This is incredibly vague? He consistently trashes every religion currently in existence. He also frequently lampoons political correctness in which he sees surrounding criticism of Muslims, which is what I think you're getting at here. So when Bill pointed out to that professor that the Book of Islam couldn't have been done on Broadway the same way the Book of Mormon was, he was bigoted in doing so? The problem comes in when he ignores any cultural or socioeconomic differences in the makeup of the practitioners of those religions and concludes that the difference must be that Islam is inherently worse than Mormonism.
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Jul 24, 2013 18:14
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Nonsense posted:I don't care if he's renounced it or not. His views on vaccines make him as dangerous as the people he loves to pretend are murdering millions with religion. I mean if words they say about some deity is trampling on the humanity, libertarianism of the masses then surely his crackpot views on medicine and germ theory are just as hosed? Well great news! Jenny Mccarthy is going to be the new host on The View!
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Jul 24, 2013 18:17
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Another good example of his Islamaphobia is in the ending of religulous. Look at how this ending is structured. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7QgRJgDNPE Any time he is showing "evil Christianity" its old white harmless people in relative isolation. Any time he shows "evil Islam" its masses of scary men, political leaders of anti-american groups, people with guns, or martyrdom videos. When he quotes apocalyptic messages in both books, the quotes from Christianity are general quotes of destruction, the quotes from the Qu'ran are specific threats of violence and religious warfare. There is an implicit bias there. He is saying Christianity is intellectually dangerous, but Islam is physically dangerous.
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Jul 24, 2013 18:20
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Mel Mudkiper posted:There is an implicit bias there. He is saying Christianity is intellectually dangerous, but Islam is physically dangerous. Yeah, but when was the last time a crazy Christian extremist blew up a car bomb and then went on a shooting spree? 
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Jul 24, 2013 18:34
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Devour posted:This is incredibly vague? If you think "don't dehumanize muslims" is a vague statement then you're hopelessly out of your depth.
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Jul 24, 2013 18:36
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Mel Mudkiper posted:My problem is that when he condemns Islam he is not condemning a limited interpretation of a doctrine by a particular sect of that faith, he is condemning it as some evil brown-skinned cultural barbarism. He also significantly overplays the "danger" of Muslims. Sorry, but half of the Muslim world does not believe its ok to kill someone for insulting the prophet any more than half of Catholics think its morally just to bomb an abortion clinic. He treats the violence of other religions like Judaism and Christianity as "extremism" but the violence of Islam as "normalcy." He even specifically says that Judaism is not a warlike religion, and Christianity and Islam are. He defends this by saying Israel has shown enormous restraint in not nuking the Palestinians, and the horrendous body count from the Israeli invasion of Gaza is to be expected because of Palestinian extremism.
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Jul 24, 2013 18:36
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Oh yea I forgot that he spent a whole act saying 'uh Israel hasn't nuked you loving savages yet, YOU'RE WELCOME'. I really am eager to hear how he's sticking up for religious minorities in it...
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Jul 24, 2013 18:38
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Another good example of his Islamaphobia is in the ending of religulous. Look at how this ending is structured. It's the same with all the New Atheists or whatever Dawkins/Hitchens/Harrins get called now: religion is bad, but Islam is especially bad. And of course they valiantly championed that line throughout the entire Iraq War buildup. Blood on all of their hands.
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Jul 24, 2013 18:39
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Orange Devil posted:It's the same with all the New Atheists or whatever Dawkins/Hitchens/Harrins get called now: religion is bad, but Islam is especially bad. And of course they valiantly championed that line throughout the entire Iraq War buildup. Blood on all of their hands. Its a synthesis of two lovely belief systems "All religious people are dangerous cretins" - New Atheism "All brown people are dangerous cretins" - Upper class White people "All brown religious people are REALLY dangerous cretins" - white upper class new atheists
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Jul 24, 2013 18:45
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Orange Devil posted:It's the same with all the New Atheists or whatever Dawkins/Hitchens/Harrins get called now: religion is bad, but Islam is especially bad. And of course they valiantly championed that line throughout the entire Iraq War buildup. Blood on all of their hands. Wait, Dawkins did that too? I knew about Hitchens and Harris, but I didn't realize he had. Well, yet another reason to ignore him then.
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Jul 24, 2013 18:49
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Orange Devil posted:It's the same with all the New Atheists or whatever Dawkins/Hitchens/Harrins get called now: religion is bad, but Islam is especially bad. And of course they valiantly championed that line throughout the entire Iraq War buildup. Blood on all of their hands. This seems like as reasonable a place as any to bring it up, but Chris Hitchens used to have a really weird intellectual tic not unlike the Ron/ Rand 5 Minute Rule. Before 9/11 he'd write articles that started out reasonable enough but would eventually veer real hard into him just being an absolute poo poo. The one that stands out most in my mind was an article about public intellectuals - he starts off strong and informative, but on like page 7 he takes a hard turn and says, not quite verbatim: but there are problems letting the unwashed masses determine who is and isn't an intellectual. like people think this one imam is an intellectual. pfffft. why the hell is everyone talking about some loving beardhaver when they could be talking about ME ME ME ME ME Of course, after 9/11 he stopped pretending and was just a poo poo all the time.
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Jul 24, 2013 19:27
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Idran posted:Wait, Dawkins did that too? I knew about Hitchens and Harris, but I didn't realize he had. Well, yet another reason to ignore him then. I'm pretty sure Dawkins was and is against the Iraq War. He's still guilty of the same stereotyping of Muslims, but he's not as bad as Hitchens and Harris at least.
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Jul 24, 2013 19:32
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" No, it wasn't greed, a change in the way things are manufactured, new infrastructure and shipping lanes, outsourcing, global competition, evolving demographics, automation, gentrification, pollution or corporate blood suckers bleeding the land dry and moving on to more fertile ground. It was workers wanting to be paid enough to feed their kids and retire comfortably. And Democrats. But mostly black people.
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Jul 24, 2013 19:37
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