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jonjonaug posted:I thought SMT IV had really simple dungeon design for a mainline SMT game. Outside of the final two dungeons and maybe one or two other rooms throughout the game there was nothing much to write home about. There wasn't really anything in the game as clever as Nocturne's Kabukicho Prison, Diet Building, Park, or Obelisk dungeons outside of one or two rooms, and nothing as good as some of the better dungeons in the DDS games. I've been playing through Nocturne rather slowly over the past year, and honestly the dungeon design is one of the things that's been keeping me from just finishing it. Nearly every one of them feels like a huge, tedious slog. Yoyogi Park and the Diet Building had some fun gimmicks, but the rest of them have just felt like massive time wasting bullshit. I guess I prefer the more straightforward style dungeons such as in P4 and SMTIV just to keep things moving along at a decent pace.
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Jul 25, 2013 07:14
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PonchAxis posted:I think Meguro is pretty much a lock for P5. I mean he has to be, I think he's done every Persona OST, even the anime show and that new movie as well. poo poo man they're going to be performing the OST at Budokan soon which is pretty awesome. I feel the only real misstep in P4's soundtrack was The Genesis, it's a cool song on it's own but at least for me it had waaaaay too much build up. Wasn't like terrible or anything but I felt it couldn't compare to Battle Hymn Of The Soul or the Burn my Dead final battle mix.
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Jul 25, 2013 07:16
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Sacrificial Toast posted:I've been playing through Nocturne rather slowly over the past year, and honestly the dungeon design is one of the things that's been keeping me from just finishing it. Nearly every one of them feels like a huge, tedious slog. Yoyogi Park and the Diet Building had some fun gimmicks, but the rest of them have just felt like massive time wasting bullshit. I guess I prefer the more straightforward style dungeons such as in P4 and SMTIV just to keep things moving along at a decent pace. This is basically how I feel. Kinda dull isn't exactly good, but it's better then super long and tedious like most SMT dungeons seem to be. I actually like SMTIV dungeons a fair bit, they're pretty short, mostly free of annoying gimmicky stuff, and vent crawling and ledge hopping keeps things exciting enough. e: No random encounters really help too. Etrian Odyssey is basically the only thing I enjoy random encounters in. Cake Attack fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 07:21
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I would love to see P5 with a soundtrack like SMT4's. Holy poo poo, now that's a game that really nails its themes. That challenge quest theme is just fantastic!
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Jul 25, 2013 07:22
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The Law dungeon was probably the only one in SMT4 that I thought was awful. But that's mostly because if you try to plot your path out by the mini map poo poo gets disorienting fast due to it being mirrored. I went into the wrong warp so many times because of it.
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Jul 25, 2013 07:22
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Music-wise, I think I prefer Persona 4 for... general purposes? There's a lot more variety in the dungeon tracks, and the song that plays at home doesn't grate like the dorm song did. On the other hand, once you hit January in P3 the soundtrack changes to Memories of the City/School and Living with Determination, which are probably my favorite tracks. Also, I love Burn My Dread (both versions) more that I probably should.
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Jul 25, 2013 07:24
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My dream for a Persona 5 soundtrack is just more rap, more pop and more style. Seriously I never listen to videogame music outside of games except for a select few and the persona series just has the best soundtrack ever.
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Jul 25, 2013 07:24
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SMT IV dungeons are not obnoxious which is nice, but they're also all really boring. Naraku starts off being an nice introduction to what I was expecting to be a pretty good ramp up and then...all the dungeons are uninteresting outside of the visuals. They don't need to be on the same level as Strange Journeys pure insanity, but they sure could have been more interesting. Hell, I don't even mind Strange Journeys dungeon design at all, I'm just not willing to defend it at length because they can be overlong and full with too many gimmicks.
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Jul 25, 2013 08:00
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I started off not liking SMT4 much honestly but it's definitely grown on me. Which is weird because I had the exact opposite reaction with Strange Journey - Started out really liking it and by the time I beat it I just youtubed the other endings because I really wanted it to end. The one thing that really is a definite knock against the game is getting around can be so confusing. Quests that tell you "meet in this area" and then you spend 10 minutes trying to find what part of "this area" they meant, atrocious world map, the minimap they give you on the other screen doesn't label anything. I spent a good chunk of my playtime lost, although I've figured out the map by now. I know a lot of people don't like it when games pop up a giant arrow saying "Go here" but this is really one game that needed it at times. Otherwise I really like the game though. The "twist" after beating Medusa 6-7 hours in is like when you first left Midgar in FF7, the music is cool, I like the worldbuilding, I really like the battle system/fusion aspect of things.
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Jul 25, 2013 09:00
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:The one thing that really is a definite knock against the game is getting around can be so confusing. Quests that tell you "meet in this area" and then you spend 10 minutes trying to find what part of "this area" they meant, atrocious world map, the minimap they give you on the other screen doesn't label anything. I spent a good chunk of my playtime lost, although I've figured out the map by now. On one hand, I get what they're going for: Tokyo is supposed to be this confusing, otherworldly place. Even for people who actually live in Tokyo in real life, it's meant to be "off" and unsettling. On the other, holy hell give me some quest markers, or location markers on the bottom screen map, or something, anything to make navigation easier. I like the dungeons in SMT4. I like the way different parts interlock - you might climb some stairs to end up on the street, or go through an airvent to get to a different part of the street or whatever. It's just a shame you can't really stop and look at the scenery without a demon spawning under your rear end. (SMT4's Estoma Sword is not acceptable and I will legit buy a SMT4 Maniax if it includes a reasonable version of Estoma)
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Jul 25, 2013 09:12
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So I'm not sure if I'm doing persona 3 right. I killed the first full moon boss pretty good, but I frequently find myself with nothing to do most days because no one ever wants to do social link stuff. My protagonist is evidently a lonely goon who does nothing but spend his murder money on shopping channels. Or does the beginning part of Persona 3 just have a void of poo poo to do for a while?
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Jul 25, 2013 10:09
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TurnipFritter posted:(SMT4's Estoma Sword is not acceptable and I will legit buy a SMT4 Maniax if it includes a reasonable version of Estoma) I don't know how Atlus thought it was a good idea gameplay wise to give us Estoma Sword as opposed to Estoma or not give us any indicators to help us loving navigate Tokyo. We even get a goddamn map of Tokyo that apparently labels everything nicely once we arrive, but why the gently caress can't we have it label everything on the map itself?
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Jul 25, 2013 14:42
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Nuebot posted:So I'm not sure if I'm doing persona 3 right. I killed the first full moon boss pretty good, but I frequently find myself with nothing to do most days because no one ever wants to do social link stuff. My protagonist is evidently a lonely goon who does nothing but spend his murder money on shopping channels. Or does the beginning part of Persona 3 just have a void of poo poo to do for a while? IIRC the Max S. Link guide spends the first few days doing either whatever links are available (Magician / Chariot usually I think?) or maxing stats in the theatre (the most efficient way to max stats). Also SMT4 owns so far but I think I spent my app points wrong. Those extra demon slots were not worth it, totally wishing I had more skill slots for everything aaaaah.
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Jul 25, 2013 15:22
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RME posted:I think what you mean to say is that Persona 3 has too much of a HIP FUNKY soundtrack to be a dark game. The music from P3 is amazing, however since in P4 it's has several different music tracks for a single stage (depending on the weather etc), I think I grew more attached to P4 than P3 music. For P5, I think they should follow the trend of making adaptative music, and, I don't know, blow everyones' minds with lyrics changing mid battle depending on what you're doing or something awesome like that. wiregrind fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Jul 26, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 18:31
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Am I the only one who generally liked Persona 1 still? It not as good as the later entries in the series (not play much of 2 to form a opinion yet), but I liked the PSP remake a lot (back when I still had a PSP) to rebuy it again for the Vita along with the PSP version of 2 and 3 from the current sale. Then again, it might because my brother managed to find a copy of the old PS1 release and I managed beat it. Of course now the problem is I want to play Persona 1 and/or 3 Portable, but yet still was playing Persona 4 Golden and just got SMTIV as well. Too many games at once.
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Jul 25, 2013 18:42
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You're not the only one who likes P1, i love the poo poo outta that game.
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Jul 25, 2013 18:46
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Technique/Dorroile likes it a lot for some reason. Most of my ire is directed towards the US PS1 version. The PSP release fixes a lot of the hilariously bad localization, but the gameplay is still really annoying and the dungeons are tedious and monotonous as hell. E: Somehow knew I would be too slow.
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Jul 25, 2013 18:48
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Rirse posted:Am I the only one who generally liked Persona 1 still? You have a kindred soul in Dorroile. e:as evidenced.
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Jul 25, 2013 18:48
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I feel the only real misstep in P4's soundtrack was The Genesis, it's a cool song on it's own but at least for me it had waaaaay too much build up. Wasn't like terrible or anything but I felt it couldn't compare to Battle Hymn Of The Soul or the Burn my Dead final battle mix. The P4Anime gave us what would have been a pretty nice final boss theme. Better than The Genesis at least. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SSBFtLKams
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Jul 25, 2013 18:48
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Persona 4's best track was the final boss theme, they just forgot to play it for the whole boss fight.
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Jul 25, 2013 18:51
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alcharagia posted:Persona 4's best track was the final boss theme, they just forgot to play it for the whole boss fight. Still not as good as the final boss theme for P3 v  v.
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Jul 25, 2013 18:59
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Zoness posted:Still not as good as the final boss theme for P3 v Persona 4's final boss isn't a flagrantly badly designed fight, though, so I think it evens out.
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Jul 25, 2013 19:04
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alcharagia posted:Persona 4's final boss isn't a flagrantly badly designed fight, though, so I think it evens out. Look maybe they didn't think making the boss capable of casting Night Queen twice in one turn was a bad idea or something  (or are you pointing to something else about it)
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Jul 25, 2013 19:05
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Zoness posted:Look maybe they didn't think making the boss capable of casting Night Queen twice in one turn was a bad idea or something Also that you need to fight through it's first 12 Arcana forms, none of which are any difficult, before you get to the actual fight. Also Charm + Diarahan, but that one's just funny.
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Jul 25, 2013 19:09
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I liked Persona 1 and P2: IS. I am hoping they bring over Eternal Punishment, but. That's probably not likely. 
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Jul 25, 2013 19:12
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I guess my unpopular Persona opinion is that "The Genesis" is pretty cool (though "Fog" is better) and that "Battle Hymn of the Soul" goes from amazing to boring after the minute mark.
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Jul 25, 2013 19:14
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I'm actually not fond of Battle Hymn either, it's actually the only version of the song I don't like. It's just sort of dull. Persona 3's soundtrack is way better when it's hilarious gangsta rap (Iwatodai Dorm is an unappreciated masterpiece.) Edit: Of course, my favorite boss theme in the entire franchise is from all the way back before it was even Shin Megami Tensei, so take that with a grain of salt. Kinu Nishimura fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 19:18
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Dorroile posted:You're not the only one who likes P1, i love the poo poo outta that game. I like it too. It's the only one of the Persona games I like, actually. Of course I only played the Japanese version so I never got to experience the travesty that was apparently the localized version.
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Jul 25, 2013 19:24
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PonchAxis posted:My dream for a Persona 5 soundtrack is just more rap, more pop and more style. Seriously I never listen to videogame music outside of games except for a select few and the persona series just has the best soundtrack ever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPogJsxnpAM This is one of my favorite video game songs ever. I love it. It just fits the weird, psychedelic mood so well.
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Jul 25, 2013 19:35
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Genpei Turtle posted:I like it too. It's the only one of the Persona games I like, actually. Of course I only played the Japanese version so I never got to experience the travesty that was apparently the localized version. I never understood the hate for it myself. Trying to pass off Japan as Not Sunnyvale, CA was stupid but everything else was fine for the time (remember this came out a full year before even Final Fantasy VII, I think it was straight up the first JRPG on the PSX). The localization is goofy at times but I liked it more than stuff like Silver Star Story Complete or Granstream Saga, and the humor and tone isn't all that different from what we got with, say, Soul Hackers on the 3DS. The character hair/skin tone changes are dumb on the surface but I don't think the core feel of the game was adversely affected by the translation decisions.
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Jul 25, 2013 19:38
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Neo Rasa posted:I never understood the hate for it myself. Trying to pass off Japan as Not Sunnyvale, CA was stupid but everything else was fine for the time (remember this came out a full year before even Final Fantasy VII, I think it was straight up the first JRPG on the PSX). The localization is goofy at times but I liked it more than stuff like Silver Star Story Complete or Granstream Saga, and the humor and tone isn't all that different from what we got with, say, Soul Hackers on the 3DS. Unless you mean in Japan, that's definitely wrong. Final Fantasy VII was released on September 7, 1997 (US), and Revelations: Persona was October 25. And even if you did mean Japan, Persona only beat FF7 to the market by about 4 months (September 20, 1996 to January 31, 1997).
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Jul 25, 2013 19:43
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It's the gameplay (and dungeon design). There is a reason the grid battle system has not been re-used since. The bad localization was just the cherry on top.
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Jul 25, 2013 19:43
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I didn't have a huge issue with the grid system once I found a setup that worked. For me the worst part of Persona 1 was the incredibly clunky interface and menu design. This was made worse with back attacks that would reverse your party formation and then after the battle it wouldn't return forcing you to go through the menus. The PSP release fixed most of those issues so I think it was pretty good.
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Jul 25, 2013 19:57
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Nate RFB posted:It's the gameplay (and dungeon design). There is a reason the grid battle system has not been re-used since. The bad localization was just the cherry on top. To each his own, I guess. I really liked the gameplay. Much more than Persona 2 (IS, never played EP) and Persona 3, the latter of which I never could get more than a couple of hours into because I couldn't stand the endless dialogue and dating-sim aspect of the game. Persona 1 has a lot of depth to it, especially in the ways you can subtly alter your Personas by using different spell cards on different moon phases to alter your results. The grid system added to the depth, where different formations were more or less useful with different Persona combinations. My only real complaint with it was that past level 70ish or so it requires an inhuman amount of grinding to gain levels, effectively blocking off the top tier of Personas to anyone that doesn't either cheat or spend their lives grinding.
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Jul 25, 2013 20:03
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Artix posted:Unless you mean in Japan, that's definitely wrong. Final Fantasy VII was released on September 7, 1997 (US), and Revelations: Persona was October 25. And even if you did mean Japan, Persona only beat FF7 to the market by about 4 months (September 20, 1996 to January 31, 1997). Perona 1 came out in the US in November of 1996, with FFVII coming out in the US on September 3, 1997. So I do apologize that off the top of my head I was off by two months.  Anyways, the US release is indeed what I was referring to, look at how rushed FFVII's localization is, the translation itself is actually pretty poor by comparison.My point was just that I think the hatred Persona's US translation gets is unwarranted given what it did get right vs. its few contemporaries at the time. I didn't mind the grid since you basically plant everyone at the optimal place for their melee weapon and never move them again. It let you save and load formations too which was actually pretty awesome for the time. I hated that it had this feature but stuff like Etrian Odyssey or PS2 Wizardry games still had you shuffling people around forever. Rinkles posted:Anybody actually think Innocent Sin had good gameplay? It was so awkward, a painful middle third of Persona's weird transition from Wizardry clone to full JRPG in Eternal Punishment. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 20:07
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Anybody actually think Innocent Sin had good gameplay?
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Jul 25, 2013 20:09
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The persona system itself wasn't really balanced that well either. You could very easily get yourself into a situation where you're too weak to kill anything, but also too weak to negotiate for cards. If you were like me and unaware of a way to get out of the final dungeon (which is probably my least favorite MegaTen dungeon) to fight weaker enemies, you can imagine how frustrating it might get. There are also far too many enemies that are weak to only one type of attack while impervious to all others. Which attacks are these? Hell if I know, hope you like a lot of trial and error.Rinkles posted:Anybody actually think Innocent Sin had good gameplay? It is slower or more archaic than later titles, but it was also pretty straightforward. As opposed to whatever the hell they were going for in P1. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 20:10
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I was okay with it. I think I preferred its fusion spell focus more than whatever the hell was going on with the grid in Persona 1.
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Jul 25, 2013 20:10
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I just found it boringly easy. There was some depth to the persona system - though I think it was a bit convoluted for what was actually there - but you could easily get by barely bothering with personae outside the initial defaults.
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Jul 25, 2013 20:15
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Being more difficult/cumbersome doesn't necessarily make something more fun*. The Press-Turn system is extremely basic comparatively, but it's also a lot more entertaining. *E: See Also: Fusions systems prior to Devil Survivor.
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Jul 25, 2013 20:17
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