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Habibi posted:Why? It's not like the Tiste are described as having African features. If anything, it's the opposite and he should be played by an Asian guy painted black. I'm hoping this was a setup for this:  The El Tigre Chino of High House Dark.
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Jul 23, 2013 11:03
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I hope Erikson does that encyclopedia fairly soon. I just finished book 9 this weekend and suddenly 980 pages or so does not seem like enough to answer all my questions.
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Jul 23, 2013 15:40
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Robot Danger posted:I hope Erikson does that encyclopedia fairly soon. I just finished book 9 this weekend and suddenly 980 pages or so does not seem like enough to answer all my questions. Don't worry, they won't.
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Jul 23, 2013 15:53
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I'm about to start a re-read. I'll probably do chapter summaries as I go, for funsies and to help flesh out the wiki.
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Jul 23, 2013 19:56
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Didn't it turn out that it was Apsalar's father? I swear I remember reading that but can't remember what book it was from.
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Jul 24, 2013 21:44
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So I'm getting to the end of Deadhouse Gates and there are a couple things that have been bothering the poo poo out of me. 1) How it's just casually dropped that the emperor became and "Ascendant" with his buddy or whatever 1a) What that even means. What the gently caress is an ascendant. 1b) I mean, it sounds like he became a god? But didn't those gods already exists? How does that work? What the gently caress? 1c) How does no one figure it out and then suddenly everyone knows about it? 2) Coltaine punches one of the marines in the face and everyone goes "My gosh! They're almost ascendants!" What? How?! Where does that leap even come from? 2a) See 1a. This kind of stuff has been bothering me like crazy, it seems like these books drop a lot of important stuff that's really easy to miss. The books feel kind of janky to me - like the author was having trouble keeping track of all the plot points and had to squeeze poo poo in for the story to follow his narrative. poo poo like, "Ohhh they can't use magic right now because that would be too convenient!" but then "Ohh now they CAN use magic but everyone is too tired to do anything useful. Bummer, right?"
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Jul 25, 2013 04:59
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coyo7e posted:Oh I think I got it mixed with Kruppe's mule. Yeah Pust's mule is that. Except her father dies and the mule lives on. It is almost certainly some incarnation of Shadowthrone.
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Jul 25, 2013 05:08
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Tres Burritos posted:So I'm getting to the end of Deadhouse Gates and there are a couple things that have been bothering the poo poo out of me. Coltaine is an Ascendant, he shouldn't have broken his hand. For 1a) you just have to keep reading. And 1) is one of the reveals that I really like about the 2nd book.
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Jul 25, 2013 05:30
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dishwasherlove posted:Coltaine is an Ascendant, he shouldn't have broken his hand.
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Jul 25, 2013 05:34
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Tres Burritos posted:Yeah, but where does it mention that? Or is it revealed at just that moment? I was so confused. It's implied there, but not obvious. That's why Coltaine cracks a grin. Finish the book though  .
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Jul 25, 2013 05:35
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And Nil, one of the warlocks, can sense Gesler's status from his blood. Basically it's a big deal that Coltaine breaks his hand, and that Gesler got bloodied.
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Jul 25, 2013 05:41
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Gods are very vulnerable in the Malazan universe. They're not immortal entities, they're usually canny mortals that do extraordinary things and inherit power from the universe and gain the mantle of ascendancy and Godhood in a kind of natural way through deeds, or through outright trickery and deceit. They're far from secure in their positions as well. And usually the older they are, the more wary they are of ever taking any form of direct action in anything, lest they open themselves up to be usurped. Loving Life Partner fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jul 25, 2013 |
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Jul 25, 2013 05:48
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dishwasherlove posted:Coltaine is an Ascendant, he shouldn't have broken his hand. Actually, they flat out state that he's just on the verge of ascendancy. Still pretty impressive.
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Jul 25, 2013 16:00
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Habibi posted:Except her father dies and the mule lives on. It is almost certainly some incarnation of Shadowthrone. That's what I was thinking as well.
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Jul 25, 2013 16:19
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Just finished TtH. Hoooooly poo poo that was awesome. Took forever to build up to though. One question, I was really hoping for a Blend and Humble Measure confrontation but was left hanging. Does this get resolved in the future or is it just left to the imagination?
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Jul 25, 2013 17:41
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Wickans don't ascend they reiterate
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Jul 25, 2013 18:23
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dishwasherlove posted:Coltaine is an Ascendant, he shouldn't have broken his hand. I thought Coltaine wasn't an Ascendant, just a regular general? Him breaking his hand is significant because it demonstrates Gesler's newfound damage resistance. Tres Burritos posted:1) How it's just casually dropped that the emperor became and "Ascendant" with his buddy or whatever 1a) Ascendants are gods, or have godlike abilities that make them close enough. Think of them as the Greek Pantheon where you can actually get promoted into it. 1b) A lot of the established gods were just regular dudes before they ascended into godhood. Shadowthrone and Cotillion are a little special in that they're more recent additions to the pantheon; the House of Shadow is a relatively new addition to the Deck of Dragons. A good rule of thumb in this series is that gods and deities tend to attract priests and followers even if they don't necessarily want those followers. 1c) Quick Ben and Kalam figure it out in Gardens of the Moon iirc. Lasseen either knew what happened to them or made an educated guess. I can't think of anyone else who knows about it that shouldn't in Deadhouse Gates but it's been a while since I've read it. quote:This kind of stuff has been bothering me like crazy, it seems like these books drop a lot of important stuff that's really easy to miss. The books feel kind of janky to me - like the author was having trouble keeping track of all the plot points and had to squeeze poo poo in for the story to follow his narrative. poo poo like, "Ohhh they can't use magic right now because that would be too convenient!" but then "Ohh now they CAN use magic but everyone is too tired to do anything useful. Bummer, right?" The series is a lot like a boat ride down an unfamiliar jungle. You'll find yourself asking a lot of questions at first but eventually you'll sort of get used to it, it's best just to go with the flow. Keep reading, Deadhouse Gates really amps up toward the end!
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Jul 25, 2013 18:43
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This can bug some readers, but it's ok to be confused by this stuff. Lots of it is not explained, or fuzzy, or related by a character who probably doesn't have it right in the first place. As for ascendants, I think of them more as people who have grown beyond themselves, in a variety of senses. Maybe they've achieved immortality. Maybe they're an arch-arch magic user. Maybe they've got a cult of worshippers and are somehow feeding off their spritual energy. Maybe they're the epitome of some human aspect like assassination or subterfuge and have come to embody the platonic form of that aspect and transcended mere physicality. Maybe it's just a label for someone with the ability or potential to affect change on a grand scale. It's similar with magic and warrens. They're not really explained much, at least early on, and different characters see them differently anyway. Most people keep their head down when magic is being flung back and forth.
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Jul 25, 2013 19:04
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The Ninth Layer posted:The series is a lot like a boat ride down an unfamiliar jungle. You'll find yourself asking a lot of questions at first but eventually you'll sort of get used to it, it's best just to go with the flow. Keep reading, Deadhouse Gates really amps up toward the end! Powered through it last night. gently caress me this guy loves killing his characters in awful ways. 800% worse than GRRM. So Laseen is dead? Or was she like channeling through the corpse or something? Or will I find out ~*In A Later Book*~ ?
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Jul 25, 2013 19:09
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Tres Burritos posted:Powered through it last night. gently caress me this guy loves killing his characters in awful ways. 800% worse than GRRM. The second is correct, yes. She wasn't going to put herself in the same room as Kalam. And nah, if it was GRRM the civilians would have died too just to spite the sacrifice of the Chain.
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Jul 25, 2013 19:49
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The Ninth Layer posted:
my warren is boat repair.
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Jul 25, 2013 20:40
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As expansive as Erikson's magic system is, I was surprised there aren't any warrens that deal with time, at least not explicitly. I can't imagine the ramifications that would have on the plot, but it would be a little fun I'm sure. This weekend I plan on powering through the last bit of Reaper's Gale. Don't tell me how any of it works out, but I just read the part with Bugg getting trapped by the Errant. That sneaky bastard! Now that Tehol's plan has sort of been revealed to the reader I'm really excited to see how that all plays out. Not to mention the lovely convergence that's happening in Letheras. Karsa, Icarium, Rhulad, the Bonehunters, Hannan Mosag, the Errant, etc. etc. The list is enormous, so I'm expecting the payoff of that to be equally huge. Overall I think Reaper's Gale has been an even slower burn than Deadhouse Gates. But if the climactic events compare at all, I'm in for a wild ride. And then I still have 3 more books to read!
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Jul 25, 2013 21:40
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Tellann and Omtose Phellack both have some pretty massive time travelly effects on time throughout the series. I see what you mean though, you want there to be like a Hold of Time or something.
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Jul 25, 2013 22:35
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I can't believe I am about to say this, but I am nearly done with Esslemonts Blood and Bone and I don't hate it yet. I actually chuckled out loud at one part... I only did that on my first read of Eriksons stuff. The writing is better, character driven, and I haven't been jolted out of the story by poor writing in a long time. Bravo, Esslemont.
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Jul 26, 2013 01:43
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The Ninth Layer posted:I thought Coltaine wasn't an Ascendant, just a regular general? Him breaking his hand is significant because it demonstrates Gesler's newfound damage resistance. As far as ascendants in general, I think it may be Kalam who offers the best in-book description, and the one that makes the most sense to me: ascendants are beings who have in some way(s) or another managed to exceed their normal limitations. They have gained some power, some additional substance - maybe it means they are faster and/or stronger and/or can take a beating that would kill a normal man several times over, like Iron Bars, who along with the rest of the CG ascended through a vow. Maybe it means you've managed to access incredible magical power. Or you're the vessel of a god. Etc... There are many means to ascension - including concepts of mass belief, divine provenance, strength of will and so on. But for all practical purposes the best and yet worst analogy I've come up with so far is that it's like Dragonball. You have the regular fighters, and then you have guys like Goku and Vegeta and to a lesser extent others who can throw ten punches that level buildings before one of the plebes can throw one. Some trained or studied into their power, some were born to it, some were granted it, and so on. And ascendants span a wide spectrum of ability. Some may have limited powers, while others may be on the verge of godhood (and others may already be gods, though that doesn't mean their powers aren't limited).
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Jul 26, 2013 08:18
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And then you have the Malazan sappers, who as a group have basically ascended through technology and basically have underground worship of them as crazy motherfuckers. As individuals they are mortal but as an idea they blow poo poo up.
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Jul 26, 2013 09:35
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I don't really understand how the decks of dragons work. What exactly is the deck? Some sort of magical filing system? Are they just ordinary playing cards or are they incredibly dangerous magical artifacts? Why is Captain Paran such a weirdly written character?
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Jul 26, 2013 21:22
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amuayse posted:I don't really understand how the decks of dragons work. It's a method of divination, similar to the way people use Tarot cards in our world. Skilled users of the Deck can interpret the castings to reveal the current balance of power among Houses and Ascendants. The "roles" on the cards are not set in stone, and shift throughout the series depending on who is at the center of events. If I had to guess, I would say that Erikson originally intended Paran to be a POV character throughout the series, then changed his mind later on.
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Jul 26, 2013 22:41
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amuayse posted:I don't really understand how the decks of dragons work. think of them as a self updating set of tarot cards. E: f;b.
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Jul 26, 2013 22:41
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Juaguocio posted:It's a method of divination, similar to the way people use Tarot cards in our world. Skilled users of the Deck can interpret the castings to reveal the current balance of power among Houses and Ascendants. The "roles" on the cards are not set in stone, and shift throughout the series depending on who is at the center of events. Also of note the person dealing the cards has a strong impact on the "reading." Some of the characters in the books are extremely gifted readers, while your common grunt wouldn't get any kind of response from a deck. Edit: I'm a terribly lazy person, thus my SA name :/
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Jul 26, 2013 22:54
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Baudin posted:Also of note the person dealing the cards has a strong impact on the "reading." Some of the characters in the books are extremely gifted readers, while your common grunt wouldn't get any kind of response from a deck. And by virtue if the reading they can also make themselves vulnerable and / or attract a whole lot of unwanted attention. It's sort of like looking into someone's bedroom window with a telescope, and seeing they've got one trained in yoy, too.
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Jul 26, 2013 23:16
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Habibi posted:And by virtue if the reading they can also make themselves vulnerable and / or attract a whole lot of unwanted attention. It's sort of like looking into someone's bedroom window with a telescope, and seeing they've got one trained in yoy, too. I like how the better someone gets with the deck, the more unwanted attention they attract, and how this makes them much more hesitant and careful about using it. Fits nicely with all the other convergence and power attracting power themes in the series.
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Jul 27, 2013 01:00
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Thanks, makes more sense to me now. Though Paran's weird "card drawing" power and being partially a Hound of Shadow almost makes him ascendant himself. Spontaneous leveling up into a Mortal Sword like in case of Gruntle was sorta strange too. The fact that the people who become gifted with the powers from the god taking it all sorta lightly is even more surprising. Guess that is humor on Erickson's part.
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Jul 27, 2013 01:40
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I always thought of Ganoes as like, K'Rul's Lieutenant or something.
Loving Life Partner fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Jul 27, 2013 |
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Jul 27, 2013 01:48
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Isn't that more like Kruppe?
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Jul 27, 2013 02:29
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Fine, be more accurate!
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Jul 27, 2013 02:41
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amuayse posted:Thanks, makes more sense to me now. Though Paran's weird "card drawing" power and being partially a Hound of Shadow almost makes him ascendant himself. quote:Spontaneous leveling up into a Mortal Sword like in case of Gruntle was sorta strange too. The fact that the people who become gifted with the powers from the god taking it all sorta lightly is even more surprising. Guess that is humor on Erickson's part.
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Jul 27, 2013 02:54
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Habibi posted:Almost...? Well I'm just surprised they weren't so surprised. Just either complete possession or depressing acceptance like it's just a new job. There doesn't seem to be any "Whoa, I know Kung Fu" moments except for maybe Ganoes. By "almost an ascendant", Erickson was never really clear what he eventually became. Sorta like a pseudo-ascendant. amuayse fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Jul 27, 2013 |
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Jul 27, 2013 03:52
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No, Paran is definitely an Ascendant. The Jaghut sorceress he met confirmed it.
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Jul 27, 2013 04:26
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bigmcgaffney posted:And then you have the Malazan sappers, who as a group have basically ascended through technology and basically have underground worship of them as crazy motherfuckers. As individuals they are mortal but as an idea they blow poo poo up. I think the whole point of the sappers is that they're normal humans who represent the fact that the "mortal" technologies of the modern era are pretty much superior to the old arrangement of gods and Ascendants, so them as anything but mortal sort of undermines the theme.
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Jul 27, 2013 06:36
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