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Sir Ilpalazzo posted:That's pretty embarrasing on my part, then. But I feel like my point still stands. I think it just brings to mind another point, and that's that the Wii U's primary competition this holiday will likely not be the Xbone and PS4 but the 360 and PS3, two mature consoles with huge libraries already getting a bunch of high profile releases. Granted some of those like COD:Ghosts are also coming to Wii U.
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Jul 19, 2013 12:57
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At this rate, the Wii U will be Nintendo's last home console. It's become evident that they aren't unwilling to complete with Microsoft and Sony, but rather they can't. Nintendo rested on their laurels with the original Wii, and if the last 8 months haven't demonstrated that they have no clue how to develop HD games (circa 2005 HD games at that), then I don't know what else to tell you. That being said, a handheld console-centric Nintendo wouldn't be a bad thing. The 3DS is fantastic right now, and its successor could be even more incredible if Nintendo didn't have to divide their attention between it and bailing water out of a sinking ship.
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Jul 19, 2013 13:03
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Nintendo has it's loyal fanbase that will gobble up everything it does "when the games are there" so it's sales will skyrocket when the price drops and it's mid 2014 and most of the Nintendo games are out for the system. That fanbase will also defend it without logic nor reason (see the avatar I have) because Nintendo rivals only Apple in stubborn fanbases.
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Jul 19, 2013 13:05
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If Nintendo's fanbase was anything like Apple's then the Wii U wouldn't be in trouble right now. People just get sick of the "Well I guess it's time for Nintendo to wrap it up and develop for Xbox/focus only on handhelds/make iPhone games/whatever". Nintendo, for all the screw ups of the past couple years, is far from destitute and on its last legs.
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Jul 19, 2013 13:21
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Almost Smart posted:At this rate, the Wii U will be Nintendo's last home console. It's become evident that they aren't unwilling to complete with Microsoft and Sony, but rather they can't. Nintendo rested on their laurels with the original Wii, and if the last 8 months haven't demonstrated that they have no clue how to develop HD games (circa 2005 HD games at that), then I don't know what else to tell you. Strange Matter fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 13:30
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Yeah, my point was that the WiiU isn't competing with the One and the 4...it's already opted out of that race. It's competing with two consoles that have already worked out most of the kinks and glitches, with huge back libraries and new current-gen titles. Why doesn't the U get Diablo 3? Not worth the money. Same with Dark Souls, GTA5, etc. They should have waited a year and released when they had some games ready. They aren't trying to compete with One/4, so it shouldn't have hurt them to do it that way. They way they chose to do it (release without games) lost them a lot of goodwill from the average consumer, in my opinion. Edit: I don't want them to lose. I love Mario games. But Nintendo HAS to stop relying on their core franchises without having third-party support. There is such a thing as too much Mario Kart. After a while it all looks alike... bkerlee fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 13:51
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Mucilaginous posted:Edit: I don't want them to lose. I love Mario games. But Nintendo HAS to stop relying on their core franchises without having third-party support. There is such a thing as too much Mario Kart. After a while it all looks alike... Double Dash was the peak of the Mario Kart franchise and removing two-man carts for Mario Kart Wii was one of the biggest downgrades in gaming history. 
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Jul 19, 2013 14:01
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Mucilaginous posted:
Wii U has Assassin's Creed 4, Rayman Legends, Batman Arkham Origins, Watch Dogs and Splinter Cell as multi third party games this fall, those aren't small games. And it's also getting a ton of exclusives July-August onward.
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Jul 19, 2013 14:12
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I just want another proper Little King's Story because it was a better Pikmin game than Pikmin.Chaltab posted:If Nintendo's fanbase was anything like Apple's then the Wii U wouldn't be in trouble right now. Nintendo needs to learn how to program a proper operating system for a home console entertainment system or they are in deep poo poo. The Wii U is straight out of 2004 in terms of everything that it brings. Maybe they should just stick to the handheld market but I don't think the U will be their last home console.
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Jul 19, 2013 14:42
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My Netflix crashed on boot about a third of the time. Always frustrated me. Plus the online stuff is pretty inexcusable. Nintendo has so much good, but they refuse to get out of their own way. It's maddening. As for exclusives, they really are fun, but I can't justify owning a console for a few great games. I want to play the games my friends are playing too.
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Jul 19, 2013 14:54
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Kurtofan posted:Wii U has Assassin's Creed 4, Rayman Legends, Batman Arkham Origins, Watch Dogs and Splinter Cell as multi third party games this fall, those aren't small games. Judging from the Ubisoft link a few pages back (3% of overall software sales on the Wii U), I'd wonder how much porting to the Wii U costs and whether they're breaking even on that or not. Clearly the potential sales (total hardware sales worldwide is what, 2.6m now?) of an exclusive means that's not appealing either. Looks like the best guess for US sales in June was ~3:1 outsold by the 360, also outsold by the Wii. Couple of graphs from NeoGAF (US numbers)   One more, Japan numbers, bottom is weeks from launch.  Easy to forget about how badly the PS3 launched.
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Jul 19, 2013 15:35
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The PS3 launch was terrible, and it wasn't outdated hardware. Think about that. WiiU is like PS3's launch, but with 2 equal competitors with much stronger libraries (3, if you figure the Wii might even be stealing sales from the U), and two more-powerful systems on the very near horizon. It'll be much tougher for Nintendo to climb out of the hole this time around.
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Jul 19, 2013 18:34
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OatmealRaisin posted:Double Dash was the peak of the Mario Kart franchise and removing two-man carts for Mario Kart Wii was one of the biggest downgrades in gaming history. This is absolutely true. None of the Mario Kart games after DS felt like anything more than just an increment on the formula, while Double Dash was a huge leap forward in gameplay and presentation. Even the new Wii U Mario Kart just looks bland compared to how amazing it feels to play Double Dash, all these years later. It's not just the two characters per kart, it's how they granted you access to special items, it's how the karts handled much more fluidly, how co-operative was just a fun new way of playing with other people. One of the best new features was how items were handled. Instead of having to hold L for most of the race, to hold a shell or banana out behind you for protection, you could now have each character hold an item, and you had to time your throw to block any incoming projectiles. I miss the Gamecube era, because that's when Nintendo really put effort into making their games relevant, through stunning art design and innovative gameplay. It wasn't just another Mario Kart, just another Metroid, or just another F-ZERO, it was the best one they could possibly make. No "we're not competing technologically", or "we want to give the fans what they're familiar with". They didn't half-rear end anything, which is why a game like Luigi's Mansion is still one of the best looking Nintendo games to this day.
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Jul 19, 2013 19:58
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Mucilaginous posted:The PS3 launch was terrible, and it wasn't outdated hardware. Think about that. Wii U has the Wii library with it since it's backward compatible.
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Jul 19, 2013 20:01
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Kurtofan posted:Wii U has Assassin's Creed 4, Rayman Legends, Batman Arkham Origins, Watch Dogs and Splinter Cell as multi third party games this fall, those aren't small games. Those games are also on every other platform and if the performance of current third-party titles on the Wii-U are any indication, they will be lucky to sell more than a couple thousand copies. It's also not guaranteed that the Wii-U will see future third party ports as developers start to target the hardware in the bone/ps4/modern PCs. Most of the exclusive titles coming may interest hardcore Nintendo fans and give sales a bit of a boost, but something like Pikmin isn't going to get Joe-Six-Pack to spend $350+ on a Wii-U. Even when it comes to more mainstream titles, the overall cost of the system is still an issue for a lot of people considering that the are basically buying it for a small handful of games. I also have to wonder what things will look like beyond next year after they push out a good chunk of their current working titles. Are we going to be back to a Wii-style release schedule where we basically get one big game a year and that's it?
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Jul 19, 2013 20:27
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Kurtofan posted:Wii U has the Wii library with it since it's backward compatible. The PS3 also similarly launched with the PS2 library since the PS3 had full backwards compatibility at launch. Also, right now the Wii has been outselling the WiiU in the US, which seems to indicate that people looking to play the Wii library seem to be more willing to just buy a Wii instead.
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Jul 19, 2013 20:30
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Kurtofan posted:Wii U has the Wii library with it since it's backward compatible. If only that mattered. Nobody is buying a Wii U because it can play Wii games, and people with Wiis are apparently not buying a Wii U to play Wii U games or keep playing their Wii games. That loving Sned posted:This is absolutely true. None of the Mario Kart games after DS felt like anything more than just an increment on the formula, while Double Dash was a huge leap forward in gameplay and presentation. Even the new Wii U Mario Kart just looks bland compared to how amazing it feels to play Double Dash, all these years later. It's honestly depressing to see so many people think that Mario Kart 7 (or loving Mario Kart WII) are supposed to be these revelations in kart-gaemz design. They are seriously the most pedestrian cartoon racers ever conceived. They are slow, and rely less on actual racing and more on bad track design and item balance for "wackiness". Double Dash was pretty damned wacky AND a fun racer. fivegears4reverse fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 20:32
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fivegears4reverse posted:If only that mattered. Nobody is buying a Wii U because it can play Wii games, and people with Wiis are apparently not buying a Wii U to play Wii U games or keep playing their Wii games. I just like Mario Kart Wii the best because it has the best sense of speed, and it has motorcycles. I personally think it's the most fun.
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Jul 19, 2013 21:03
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ImpAtom posted:... Uh? What are you even talking about at this point? Yes, it does. That's kind of the point of it. If you are just using Wiimotes then it isn't asynchronous multiplayer. Do you know what asynchronous multiplayer means? It's another term for turn-based games, which iOS games are well-known for. You don't need a Wii U controller to have turn-based games. If you meant asymmetric multiplayer, there's nothing stopping iOS games--or any other game platform--from having that. There are iOS games that already do. quote:Because designing for a touch screen and designing for a physical controller are very different things. If you seriously think Street Fighter IV plays the same on a touch screen as it does on a controller, you're kidding yourself. I didn't say virtual controls and physical controls play the same. I said that regardless of controller input, the game doesn't need to be redesigned. It seems like you're looking for reasons to dismiss Apple as a competitor, but Nintendo has already called them their biggest threat. The point here is that the Wii U's hardware setup won't offer a unique paradigm that justifies the cost. Toady fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 01:29
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Zelder posted:I just like Mario Kart Wii the best because it has the best sense of speed, and it has motorcycles. I personally think it's the most fun. I really hated the bikes, since to do the wheelie, you either had to flick the remote up, or press a deliberately obtuse button on the Gamecube controller. Flicking the remote, even with the wheel attachment, was really finicky, especially if you wanted to stop doing a wheelie, and it was mapped to up on the Gamecube's d-pad, just so someone using a proper controller wouldn't have an unfair advantage to someone using crappy motion controls. Using the wheel to steer should just be kept as a novelty in a Wario Ware game, since it's nowhere near as precise as the analogue stick in Double Dash. It also meant that the courses couldn't have any sharp turns or really dangerous hazards, since people using motion controls wouldn't be able to avoid them easily. The sense of speed probably came from the tracks being so wide and simple, meaning it was easy for motorbikes to use these to overtake karts. I got the triple star ranking in every cup in Super Circuit and DS, so It's not like Double Dash is the only one I liked. They've just completely stopped caring about making a game that's challenging, competitive, and refreshing. It's almost as stale as Mario Party, at this point. At least with Mario Kart 8, they're making some weird Mario Kart/F-ZERO hybrid, although I don't see what the magnetic tracks will do to change the gameplay, except make projectile items more difficult to use.
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Jul 20, 2013 01:50
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Zelder posted:I just like Mario Kart Wii the best because it has the best sense of speed, and it has motorcycles. I personally think it's the most fun. I'm the opposite and found that one to be the worse, the bikes just screwed up any sort of online balance as they where miles ahead of karts, never mind the fact that Mario Kart tends to attract a community that acts like its MLG. Having 12 racers at a time meant the item balance was all screwed up, so anyone in 6th place or below could get a blue shell, it wasn't that strange to get hit with multiple ones per lap(my own record is 6 in lap 1) or any of the higher end items like lightning and such, then you had the cloud which could gently caress YOU over if you didn't bump into another player, the tracks where also pretty boring as well. The item poo poo wouldn't bother me to much among friends but I have to play the cups to unlock the racers and all that poo poo just makes it needlessly difficult.
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Jul 20, 2013 02:07
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Using the wiimote to steer in MKWii is a real handicap, you can get good at it but not as good as with controller. Mario Kart Wii has some proper depth to the gameplay and like with Smash Bros there's actually a competitive Mario Kart Wii community with clan wars, youtube commentaries and everything. There are a lot of advanced maneuvers in the game and you can combine a lot of them, not to mention the game had karts and bikes, half pipes, most complex trick system to date and perhaps the best online features in a wii game. While bikes are the easiest to do your best with, karts can still dominate but requires more skill. I think Mario Kart Wii is the best in the series, I love almost everything about it. Mario Kart 7 on the other hand is the worst in the series. If you just compare any of the Wii tracks on MK7 and how simplified and smooth they are, that pretty much sums it up. I really don't like anything new they added, it feels really slow and boring, they changed it so two people could have lightning bolts at the same time which is especially stupid since they broadcast everyone's hand on the touch screen. If only MK7 included random tripping..
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Jul 20, 2013 02:09
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Really? I feel exactly opposite you do. They simplified it a bit compared to wii but it actually runs at a stable 60 frames per second which makes it play so smooth. Also getting rid of bikes means you don't have to use them if you actually want to win online.
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Jul 20, 2013 02:28
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EA Sports posted:Really? I feel exactly opposite you do. They simplified it a bit compared to wii but it actually runs at a stable 60 frames per second which makes it play so smooth. Also getting rid of bikes means you don't have to use them if you actually want to win online. Yeah, instead you have to use a specific character weight/kart combo that is optimal (and also so the game doesn't feel like it's going 10 miles an hour on Mirror) to hopefully be in better shape when you're inevitably hit with five blue shells on the final lap. It's not even a matter of trying to play the stupid game competitively, the problem is that the philosophy behind Mario Kart stopped catering to racing at all, and assumed that people don't like to go fast without being punished for even thinking of staying out in front. Why bother even having race tracks if the game doesn't actually want to reward people for racing well, and in fact actively punishes them for doing so? Might as well just make nothing but Block Fort variants and throw in a CTF mode or some garbage like it, I know that'd make some folks happy.
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Jul 20, 2013 02:39
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quote:there's actually a competitive Mario Kart Wii community How? I've seen some of these races, it always comes down to item RNG, how can anyone find that enjoyable?
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Jul 20, 2013 02:40
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Where does the framerate dip in MKW? I like MKWii because it has enough depth to be played competitively, karts can still dominate but it requires more skill than the bikes. I haven't really enjoyed using karts since they took out switching left and right when drifting anyways.
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Jul 20, 2013 02:43
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Alteisen posted:How? Much in the same way there's a competitive Smash Brothers community. I can't imagine that being fun in any way shape or form.
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Jul 20, 2013 13:02
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It's so weird that games with anti-competitive design philosophies like Smash and Mario Kart for some reason have among the hardest of hardcore progaming scenes. I mean, they're tiny scenes, size-wise, but just as rabid as any pro scene for real fighting and racing games. I'm shocked and disappointed Mario Party never developed a competitive league.Kurtofan posted:Wii U has the Wii library with it since it's backward compatible. Backwards compatibility doesn't sell consoles, clearly.
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Jul 20, 2013 13:26
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OatmealRaisin posted:It's so weird that games with anti-competitive design philosophies like Smash and Mario Kart for some reason have among the hardest of hardcore progaming scenes. I mean, they're tiny scenes, size-wise, but just as rabid as any pro scene for real fighting and racing games. I'm shocked and disappointed Mario Party never developed a competitive league. As far as Double Dash is concerned, it's not just about "competing", it's how much more fun it is to work as a team with someone against another pair. You haven't played Double Dash until you're entering a last turn of a race side by side with the other players, and the players who are the back seaters are punching back and forth trying to help their drivers juke around bannanas and poo poo. It's awesome. So many finishes separated by less than a tire's length across the line. Man, our group had plenty of fun. The other MK titles since Double Dash have all lacked that sense of teamplay. Hell, even running against the AI with my friend as the designated "gunner" was approximately six billion times more fun than struggling with the utter poo poo that was MKWii and 7's single player unlock grind.
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Jul 20, 2013 14:21
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People have been pulling "it's the last Nintendo console, it is an utter failure, forever" since the Nintendo 64 launched with only two games about seventeen years ago. I really don't think they're going anywhere. I'm not real sure how anti-competition Mario Kart Wii was. If you played it online you could see who the good players were. They would get first almost constantly regardless of how many lighting bolts and blue shells they got hit by. I was actually one of these people eh EHHeHEH whaley fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Jul 26, 2013 |
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Jul 26, 2013 16:36
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If they didn't have the handheld market on lockdown they would have gone the way of Sega after the failure of the Gamecube and if you don't understand that then I really don't know how else to explain it to you.
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Jul 26, 2013 16:38
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Zomodok posted:If they didn't have the handheld market on lockdown they would have gone the way of Sega after the failure of the Gamecube and if you don't understand that then I really don't know how else to explain it to you. So if Nintendo wasn't being successful right now then they would go the way of Sega. That's pretty easy to agree with. I dunno why you have to point that out though. I guess you could say if a giant explosion went off at Nintendo they would go the way of Sega too.
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Jul 26, 2013 16:43
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whaley posted:So if Nintendo wasn't being successful right now then they would go the way of Sega. That's pretty easy to agree with. I dunno why you have to point that out though. I guess you could say if a giant explosion went off at Nintendo they would go the way of Sega too. If only their success of the handheld market could transfer into the console market. But if you can't see why I'm saying that and come back with such a stupid thing as a giant explosion then just wow.
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Jul 26, 2013 16:47
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Zomodok posted:If only their success of the handheld market could transfer into the console market. I hope they have some luck in this market soon.
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Jul 26, 2013 16:49
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Zomodok posted:If they didn't have the handheld market on lockdown they would have gone the way of Sega after the failure of the Gamecube and if you don't understand that then I really don't know how else to explain it to you. Gamecube wasn't a failure though? It didn't sell like the PS2 or even the Xbox, but it was hardly a dead cat. I like the analogy someone else used earlier- the WiiU is Nintendo's Sega Saturn, not it's Dreamcast- if they don't salvage it within 6 months or so, at least. The Wii (hardware at least) was wildly successful, and their handheld division is as strong as ever. Nintendo probably has another home console in them, and they definitely won't be able to afford loving that one up.
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Jul 26, 2013 17:17
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Sounds like the obvious answer is to allow their handheld market to be played on the Wii U. It's certainly possible to do this with the DS and absolutely the 3DS, I guarantee you even if they did it with just DS games we'd see a spike in Wii U sales, they just need a dongle or the like. Not all games would be ideal for playing on it, but an easy way to make it accessible would be to have it so that you can switch which screen is on top, just press R3 to switch the screen back down to the gamepad to do any touch pad. Wii U saved, thanks Nintendo, and if they only do DS games at first, they're not going to hamper the 3DS market. (Although, I don't think I ever heard of the Gameboy Player's hampering portable console sales.)
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Jul 26, 2013 17:22
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Syfe posted:Sounds like the obvious answer is to allow their handheld market to be played on the Wii U. It's certainly possible to do this with the DS and absolutely the 3DS, I guarantee you even if they did it with just DS games we'd see a spike in Wii U sales, they just need a dongle or the like. Not all games would be ideal for playing on it, but an easy way to make it accessible would be to have it so that you can switch which screen is on top, just press R3 to switch the screen back down to the gamepad to do any touch pad. Yes, the ability to play handheld games on a console sure turned things around for the GameCube
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Jul 26, 2013 17:29
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Selling hardware to plug into the Wii U and play DS/3DS games wouldn't work very well. Better to do a software approach (Streaming data from the 3DS?) or selling stuff on their storefront.
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Jul 26, 2013 17:32
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fivegears4reverse posted:Yes, the ability to play handheld games on a console sure turned things around for the GameCube I'd say the DS (and seemingly on the rise 3DS) are much more popular than the GBA was at the time. As I believe the original DS has almost twice as many sales as the GBA. I'm not saying it's the end all be all solution, I didn't say it'd win them the generation, just that we'd likely see a spike in sales. It certainly couldn't hurt.
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Jul 26, 2013 17:32
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Syfe posted:I'd say the DS (and seemingly on the rise 3DS) are much more popular than the GBA was at the time. As I believe the original DS has almost twice as many sales as the GBA. The solution to the Wii U's problems is not going to be a small spike in sales caused by the ability to play handheld games on a big TV. It is to get more Wii U games that people give a poo poo about (and probably lower the price around the same time). The money wasted on developing the means to do this will not provide more added value. "Hey kids! You can now play your DS games within 30 feet of your Wii U on a big TV...that you kinda need to be looking at at all times unless you want to work on the low resolution of the GamePad and just really, really screw up how the games look by playing solely on that. ITS A BULLET POINT PLEASE BUY OUR CONSOLE" Given how Completely And Utterly Awful the support for Virtual Console has been on the Wii, 3DS, and now the Wii U, I am amazed (but at the same time unsurprised) that people think this is somehow a silver bullet of any sort.
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Jul 26, 2013 17:40
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