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RentACop posted:Rules wise, Malak is straight up gone right? Not the coffin thing, but vampirism is like a malignant mindstate and any resurrection attempt would just bring back whatever he was before? I feel like we discussed this back when he was talking about his children Malack himself talked about it, actually! http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html Niton fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Jul 29, 2013 |
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Jul 29, 2013 07:30
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Spikey posted:Wrongo. Fair enough, I did miss that bit. However, when I said that I was still operating under that Malack would reform back in his coffin, and not be dead(dead). As far as Tarquin goes, I think he will be a bit upset that Malack won't be around to keep a unified continent together, and sacrifice a thousand people a day. Can vampires be resurrected? I mean, not the person they were, but the actual vampire brought back to (un)life? Maybe if you found another priest of Nergal, who could make a big offering to Nergal to restore Malack?
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Jul 29, 2013 07:30
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Niton posted:Malak himself talked about it, actually! Great, now I'm a goon stereotype
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Jul 29, 2013 07:33
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Johnny Aztec posted:Fair enough, I did miss that bit. However, when I said that I was still operating under that Malack would reform back in his coffin, and not be dead(dead). Nope. A wish might do it, but short of that; nothing.
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Jul 29, 2013 08:05
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Wondering what Durkon will do next? I'm hoping he's going to open a can of whoop rear end on Nale.
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Jul 29, 2013 08:07
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spoon daddy posted:Wondering what Durkon will do next? I'm hoping he's going to open a can of whoop rear end on Nale. He's kind of low on spells after his fight with Malack, though - his only high level left was Planar Ally, which I think is what was used to get the devil.
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Jul 29, 2013 08:16
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RentACop posted:Rules wise, Malak is straight up gone right? Not the coffin thing, but vampirism is like a malignant mindstate and any resurrection attempt would just bring back whatever he was before? I feel like we discussed this back when he was talking about his children By which we mean it was explicitly stated in the strip by Malack as the reason he wasn't gong to accept a Ressurection? Yeah. Barring a smart use of Contingency, which probably would have brought is staff and holy symbol along with, Malack is pretty hosed. As in destroyed and gone forever hosed.
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Jul 29, 2013 08:22
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I wonder if he might have a Dismissal or two left, though. That's one hell of a thing to wake up to.
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Jul 29, 2013 08:24
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spoon daddy posted:Wondering what Durkon will do next? I'm hoping he's going to open a can of whoop rear end on Nale. I suspect the first thing he's going to do is rush down to help the rest of the Order. Durkon probably still has Planar Ally prepped, and the Deva he was planning on bringing in has Plane Shift as a spell-like, so they could jump straight to the last gate right behind Xykon. There's nothing on this continent for Nale any more, so he'll try to hide and let his wizard recharge spells; from there, I predict a 50/50 chance that Tarquin, or one of his party buddies, finds him and relieves him of his head, ending one recurring threat but possibly introducing Tarquin's Team as another group of gate hunters. Vampirism changes mindsets, but Durkon's grudge against undead was like one of his two character traits, so he might submit to Resurrection. It's entirely possible he has a 'just in case' copy memorized and ready to go, like he did on the boats, but the template could help tip the scales against Xykon. Roy would find it distasteful, but they're on a long losing streak, and he has a pragmatic mindset. Heatwizard fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Jul 29, 2013 |
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Jul 29, 2013 08:27
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Heatwizard posted:I suspect the first thing he's going to do is rush down to help the rest of the Order. Durkon probably still has Planar Ally prepped, and the Deva he was planning on bringing in has Plane Shift as a spell-like, so they could jump straight to the last gate right behind Xykon. There's nothing on this continent for Nale any more, so he'll try to hide and let his wizard recharge spells; from there, I predict a 50/50 chance that Tarquin, or one of his party buddies, finds him and relieves him of his head. While I don't disagree with your basic thesis...that he might try to help Roy and company...he doesn't have Planar Ally left. Where do you think the demon he summoned came from?
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Jul 29, 2013 08:31
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jng2058 posted:While I don't disagree with your basic thesis...that he might try to help Roy and company...he doesn't have Planar Ally left. Where do you think the demon he summoned came from? I assume that was Summon Monster. Planar Ally takes ten minutes to cast. e: The dialogue in those panels doesn't really seem like they were waiting around ten minutes, was my idea, although thinking back 'pretend ten minutes pass between each panel' is hauled out in this strip quite a bit, so... v  v
Heatwizard fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Jul 29, 2013 |
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Jul 29, 2013 08:31
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Heatwizard posted:I suspect the first thing he's going to do is rush down to help the rest of the Order. Durkon probably still has Planar Ally prepped, and the Deva he was planning on bringing in has Plane Shift as a spell-like, so they could jump straight to the last gate right behind Xykon. The spell summons the entity but doesn't compel them to do what you want, would a Deva work for a vampire?
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Jul 29, 2013 08:42
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Could he even still call a deva? IIRC planar ally requests your deity (or other power matching your alignment) to send an creature to help you out, and Durkon's now swimming in the evil end of the alignment pool. Not that I want to start another alignment debate (please no), but it's unlikely Durkon still counts as a cleric of Thor.
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Jul 29, 2013 08:51
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Huh, so why do I have the feeling Tarq knew something like this was going to happen and left with the kobold just so they would fight and he could see who was the more competent and useful? Maybe he got tired of Malack or more likely had been planning to get rid of him for a long time (remember what Malack said he wanted to turn the empire into after the rest of his group died). Either way I find it impossible to believe Tarq didn't foresee and plan for this.
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Jul 29, 2013 08:54
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Pope Guilty posted:I think Tarquin might finally decide Nale's outlived his usefulness. Funny, I think Tarquin might finally decide Nale's demonstrated his usefulness. Hell of a thing he just pulled off. Poil posted:Huh, so why do I have the feeling Tarq knew something like this was going to happen and left with the kobold just so they would fight and he could see who was the more competent and useful? Maybe he got tired of Malack or more likely had been planning to get rid of him for a long time (remember what Malack said he wanted to turn the empire into after the rest of his group died). I get the impression that Tarquin's of a notion that this sort of thing would happen, and whoever got the better of it would be more useful to him than the other (since both coexisting was obviously not going to last).
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Jul 29, 2013 09:05
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Holy crap Nale.  Also, look at what he did, it wasn't complex at all.
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Jul 29, 2013 09:07
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Dr Pepper posted:Holy crap Nale. Simple plans are the best plans. It did take some planning and coordination. When it was time to act, he and his wizard had to act together instantly, before the powerful 200 year old vampire could react.
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Jul 29, 2013 09:16
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There's so many things going on, that I hope the regular schedule will last a while - Tarquin coming back, Durkon coming to terms with being a vampire, race to the last gate, the gate here, Belkar, Nale vs Order. Also I guess the current fight, but it seems the elemental will be gone soon enough.
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Jul 29, 2013 09:21
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Angela Christine posted:The spell summons the entity but doesn't compel them to do what you want, would a Deva work for a vampire? Depends on if a "deva from Thor" falls under the category of those angels we see running around whenever Thor shows up drunkenly throwing thunderbolts. I could see Thor kicking one downstairs for the sake of Durkon, even if he is a vampire. Thor seems like the kind of god who doesn't give a single gently caress 
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Jul 29, 2013 09:41
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Heatwizard posted:I assume that was Summon Monster. Planar Ally takes ten minutes to cast. Summon Monster only lasts a round per level. That's why people are talking about the Order trying to run out the clock on the Silicon Elemental, because even if Redcloak is 17 or 19th level, that's still only like three minutes. Planar Ally is the one you want to have what you called last. Which is exactly what we've seen with the demon and devil that Zz'dtri and Durkon called respectively.
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Jul 29, 2013 10:03
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Durkon still has to fulfil his prophecy.
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Jul 29, 2013 10:07
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Johnny Aztec posted:Edit: Although, he is being a bit overly dramatic with the " Saaaave me" stuff if he was just going to reform. Perhaps that is just to throw Nale off. Even if he weren't destroyed utterly by the sunlight, there's still the fact that being burned alive is probably a rather traumatic experience even if you were sure you'd be just fine later. Even then, supposing he did reform, a pious mind like his (he's a cleric, isn't he?) would easily interpret that as a divine answer to his prayer rather than the logical outcome of the rules. Of course it's all moot since the rules are actually that he won't reform from that, so it's unlikely we'll see him again.
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Jul 29, 2013 10:34
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I saw the number of replies and thought "Somebody died" Definitely not the person I was expecting to.
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Jul 29, 2013 10:43
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He's not going to reform you idiots it's a loving vampire in sunlight.
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Jul 29, 2013 11:12
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I am really looking forward to Durkon talking to the rest of the Order at this point. OOTS has always treated evil characters and alignment pretty thoughtfully and I'm curious how Durkon's alignment change is going to be handled.
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Jul 29, 2013 11:39
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mmkay posted:There's so many things going on, that I hope the regular schedule will last a while - Tarquin coming back, Durkon coming to terms with being a vampire, race to the last gate, the gate here, Belkar, Nale vs Order. Also I guess the current fight, but it seems the elemental will be gone soon enough.
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Jul 29, 2013 12:02
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This was really telling about Nales's whole personality. I mean, it's a pity he grew up to be such a giant shitstick, but I think this was the first strip that shows why he turned out the way he did. Imagine what a horrible childhood he must have had. Tarquin is already a pretty lovely father for his adult sons, but it must have been even worse for a young Nale. If the sole parental figure you have growing up only cares for you as a potential future adversary in his weird story tropes obsession and was probably pretty distant once it was clear that you weren't up to his standards and you are also constantly surrounded by his weird rear end evil friend, it isn't really surprising he turned out the way he did. Nale is basically Rusty Venture. It also explained his hatred of Malak. A vampire lizard would be pretty creepy on its own and I bet it wasn't any better when he had an entire host of Vampires around him. Now imagine being a scared ten year old boy and that guy is your dad's main associate. Nale must have been scared shitless of him when he was younger and that turned into an extreme hatred when he got older. Malak basically represent everything wrong with his childhood. No wonder he resents Elan. I seriously hope we are going to meet his mother too, just for their conversation. e X fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Jul 29, 2013 |
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Jul 29, 2013 12:43
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DoctorTristan posted:Depends on where vampire Durkon's loyalties lie. Even if his loyalties don't snap back to the Order, he knows enough to know that they really need to succeed in their mission for his own good.
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Jul 29, 2013 13:43
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So can vampires not use the smoke form thing in sunlight? Malack easily could have gotten the staff back in time if he followed Durkon and using that smoke form thing would prevent Nale from stopping him so? I assume he just didn't think of going for the staff as well though. I wonder whether Durkon still hates undead now or if becoming a vampire changed that part of his personality.
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Jul 29, 2013 13:54
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Going by the rules, a vampire exposed to direct sunlight only gets a single move action or attack action (note: not the same as a standard action, which is what using Gaseous Form requires) and if whichever of those two the vampire chooses doesn't get it out of the sunlight, it is utterly destroyed on its next turn. Rich obviously relented on it a bit for the sake of storytelling since otherwise Malack wouldn't even be able to cast Slay Living, but normally a vampire caught in sunlight with no nearby cover really is completely boned.
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Jul 29, 2013 14:19
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Heatwizard posted:I assume that was Summon Monster. Planar Ally takes ten minutes to cast. The Barbed Devil was summoned using Planer Ally. Rich confirmed it. Added on a Barbed Devil needs summon monster IX to be summoned normally.
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Jul 29, 2013 14:49
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It looks like his robes and cloak afforded him some protection, which is why he held on as long as he did. In gaseous form he might have been completely unprotected.
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Jul 29, 2013 14:49
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He (the planar ally for the vampire, that is) can also do whatever the gently caress he wants now that the person who summoned him is slain. He's probably more pissed off at the group who summoned him than these random desert mooks.
greatn fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Jul 29, 2013 |
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Jul 29, 2013 15:25
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All this Durkon talk about free will is why you can't let most players keep playing their characters after they turn evil. Becaues they're always going to try to rule-lawyer themselves into basically staying as they were before instead of properly acting out the new part. If Durkula did choose that he needed the OOtS for his mission, it'd make a lot more sense to beat them into submission, wait for night time then turn as many of them into his vampire pets as the HD limit allows and dominating the rest, rather than trying to somehow save them as living Durkon would have done.
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Jul 29, 2013 15:37
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Absum posted:So can vampires not use the smoke form thing in sunlight? If vampires could just cruise around in the sunlight using mist form, they would do so, come on people.
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Jul 29, 2013 16:01
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greatn posted:He (the planar ally for the vampire, that is) can also do whatever the gently caress he wants now that the person who summoned him is slain. He's probably more pissed off at the group who summoned him than these random desert mooks. Durkula summoned the barbed devil and still controls it. If he sides with the Order he can have it turn on whatever the drow summoned.
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Jul 29, 2013 16:09
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peak debt posted:All this Durkon talk about free will is why you can't let most players keep playing their characters after they turn evil. Becaues they're always going to try to rule-lawyer themselves into basically staying as they were before instead of properly acting out the new part. He's evil, not psychotic. (Well, he might be psychotic right now what with going through vampire puberty, but that's temporary.) He is evil, but he has no experience being evil. He isn't in the habit of being evil. All his memories will be telling him that cooperation is useful. Plus he's probably Lawful Evil, not Chaotic Evil. The comic has shown us plenty of evil people capable of cooperation. Belkar is Chaotic Evil and quite enjoys murdering things, but still hasn't tried to massacre the Order because they are fun and useful to him. The bigger problem is that Roy is a stick in the mud, and will quite likely try to kill Durkon as soon as he can. Killing him and having him resurrected later could easily seem like a better idea to Roy than letting his friend slide further into evil. Durkon is going to need to eat, and I doubt his friends will be okay with that. (Being new he's probably a messy eater too.)
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Jul 29, 2013 16:09
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Zz'drizt or whatever's speech bubble isn't gray in panel 7. I wonder if this was a mistake or if it counts as him yelling.
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Jul 29, 2013 16:10
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peak debt posted:All this Durkon talk about free will is why you can't let most players keep playing their characters after they turn evil. Becaues they're always going to try to rule-lawyer themselves into basically staying as they were before instead of properly acting out the new part. The purpose of RP is fun and Durkon working with the order as a vampire is a hell of a lot more fun than your 'most logical' scenario there. If what is more fun goes against 'the rules' but everybody is on board with it being more fun, its time to ignore said rules.
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Jul 29, 2013 16:27
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http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294914 Rich 
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Jul 29, 2013 16:27
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