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Skreemer posted:Yeah brake as best you can on those, the longer travel suspension does no one favors on getting the rear end to lock up. Just stay on the rear brake get down into first and progressively squeeze the front as much as you're comfortable with. I stopped in 15' when 16' would have been acceptable, the rear wheel was only locked for the last foot or so. I did lose 5 points for going around the 135° turn too slow. Then I went 50/50 on the written test. They said I had the best score in the class, take that Mr. Knowsitallbutstillputsafootdown! I think the course was worth the $250, it was a lot of good advice and theory but more than that it was a good chance to reconnect to the controls of a motorcycle without worrying about dropping mine.
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Jul 29, 2013 06:34
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Oxford Comma posted:So in countersteering, when you lean-left, go-left, does the bike first swerve to the right a bit before going left? You're not actually pushing to the right at all, are you? The wheels will track opposite for a very brief moment, yeah. It'll be almost undetectable in practice though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLzB5oriblk
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Jul 29, 2013 18:12
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clutchpuck posted:The wheels will track opposite for a very brief moment, yeah. It'll be almost undetectable in practice though. So when one countersteers, is it a conscious movement to turn the bike opposite your direction or is it just something the bike does on its own?
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Jul 30, 2013 00:23
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You're over-thinking it. Next time you get on a bike, get your speed up to regular traffic speeds, then push the left grip away from you. The bike will lean left, and you will go left. It's seriously harder to explain than to just do it and see for yourself.
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Jul 30, 2013 00:31
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He doesn't have a bike yet so save your breath. I think like 10 people have explained it and told him not to worry about it but here he is.
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Jul 30, 2013 00:40
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Oh. NM then. Seriously though that's one of the most frequent questions I hear out of guys that are starting out. Once they've done it the first time it's "oooohhhh" and then I never hear about it again.
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Jul 30, 2013 00:43
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nsaP posted:He doesn't have a bike yet so save your breath. I think like 10 people have explained it and told him not to worry about it but here he is. Possibly because all ten people have explained it in ways that contradict one another, leaving me more confused than before I started asking. Anyways I guess I'll figure it out on my own in a week or two.
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Jul 30, 2013 00:46
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Yeah it's all the experienced people that are wrong, not you.
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Jul 30, 2013 00:50
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How I get that light bulb moment with counter steering while stationary. (Requires 2 people) With the bike (motorbike or bicycle) have someone grasp the front wheel firmly between their knees. Then the person in the seat gently pushes in the direction they want to go. Tell them not to overtly lean, the press the grip forward and feel which direction the bike wants to lean. This works fine with any motorbike I've used, for bicycles it might require flat (mountain bike style) bars. It's real simple, and the bike is off so no threats. Be aware you need to be up to speed (minimum of 12 MPH) to feel the full effect while moving.
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Jul 30, 2013 01:21
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Oxford Comma posted:Possibly because all ten people have explained it in ways that contradict one another, leaving me more confused than before I started asking. You passed your MSF, so you obviously know how to make bike change direction. Countersteering is something you learn by fiddling with the bike. I was riding for a few months before my MSF, so I misunderstood it as they taught it. When they said "push left go left", I thought they wanted me to push down on the handlebar, rather than very gently forward. Countersteering clicked one night when, going down an empty road, I wondered what would happen if I gently wiggled the handlebars while riding. Lo and behold, the bike started leaning!
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Jul 30, 2013 01:48
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Oxford Comma posted:Possibly because all ten people have explained it in ways that contradict one another, leaving me more confused than before I started asking. Actually I just re-read all the explanations and they're all more or less on the same page.
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Jul 30, 2013 01:58
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I really don't understand people's obsession with counter-steering. It's such a non-issue.
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Jul 30, 2013 02:02
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Seriously. Anecdote: I didn't know about countersteering until a couple years after I started riding. I was doing it all along, completely oblivious.
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Jul 30, 2013 02:04
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KARMA! posted:I really don't understand people's obsession with counter-steering. It's such a non-issue. It's like explaining breathing to an energy being about to get into a human body for the first time. "I have to breathe in and out? Which do I do first?" "How will I know when to stop breathing in? Should I set a timer?" "Wait, I need to breathe more quickly when I perform a strenuous activity? Is there a rule of thumb, or should I consult a chart?"
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Jul 30, 2013 02:06
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KARMA! posted:I really don't understand people's obsession with counter-steering. It's such a non-issue. For the best explanation of it, you need famous motorcycle scientologist Keith Code: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PbmXxwKbmA
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Jul 30, 2013 02:14
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Woah, guys, I didn't mean to get anyone mad at me or anything. I was just looking for some clarification. Anyways, I had a friend break it down for me, and now I understand it. Thanks for everyone trying to help. 
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Jul 30, 2013 03:08
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Safety Dance posted:It's like explaining breathing to an energy being about to get into a human body for the first time. Goddamn, this analogy is spot on.
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Jul 30, 2013 03:48
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M42 posted:Goddamn, this analogy is spot on. No it isn't, energy beings possessing human corpum have a loving terrible time grasping basic things like breathing and pulse without prior explanation. We just write it off as 'electrocution'
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Jul 30, 2013 20:11
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Snowdens Secret posted:No it isn't, energy beings possessing human corpum have a loving terrible time grasping basic things like breathing and pulse without prior explanation. We just write it off as 'electrocution' Well yeah, but once you get the meat shell initialized, it mostly takes care of itself as long as you heed the low-food, low-water, and high-waste indicators.
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Jul 31, 2013 00:55
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Anyone else that's an MSF or similar instructor notice a huge drop off in the number of students in the last 2 to 3 weeks? Out in the hinterlands of Wisconsin 4 weeks ago we had full classes, 3 weeks ago we struggled to get 6 students, this week we have 8, we have no students signed up for the next month and a half.
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Aug 7, 2013 03:31
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Day one of the MSF BRC Complete today. Was rather fun and nobody dropped their bike at all! People do, however, have the annoying habit of stalling routinely mid exercise trying to shift and holding up the line. The exercise of shifting from second to third and then back down turned into something that needed to be set to Sabre Dance, but other than that everything was fun and not to bad. The bikes are all new Honda Rebels (gently caress this thing. Turning the bars to lock drives them directly into my patella and makes those 90o turns a right loving bitch). Bonus Points: We had someone on the instructors poo poo list before class even began. Dude rode his bike to the class and only has a permit. Tee hee. Digital_Jesus fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Aug 11, 2013 |
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Aug 11, 2013 00:14
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Digital_Jesus posted:The bikes are all new Honda Rebels (gently caress this thing. Turning the bars to lock drives them directly into my patella and makes those 90o turns a right loving bitch).
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Aug 11, 2013 03:20
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I'm semi-lucky at my site. Unfortunately no ninja 250s but I have a Suzuki tu-250, suzuki gz-250, yamaha star 250 (these things have worse ergos than the hoda rebel), yamaha ttr-250 and a yamaha tw-200. By far the easiest to ride are any of the dual sports. The TU-250 is the most neutral motorcycle you'll ever ride. The GZs are OK and I can get along with them fairly well. You can take the yamaha star and the honda rebel out back and light then on fire though.
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Aug 11, 2013 13:06
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Day two complete. Everyone in my class passed. Scored 100 on the written test and got 0 points in the field eval.  I'm officially licensed to drive headfirst into a tree now! Edit: Day one of having my big kid license. Did not crash into a tree! Score! Digital_Jesus fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Aug 12, 2013 |
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Aug 12, 2013 00:01
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I just had my first day of MSF. The classroom broke down 50/50 male and female. I am one of the few that has no previous experience. One of the guys already has an R1 but only rode it a few times, and another has had his license suspended due to felony speeding with his father with motorcycles (they bought the same bike, and wanted to see how fast they could go) and were tracked by a helicopter. The classroom instruction is basically teach the test, I expected more in depth stuff I guess. The test was very easy, I only missed two questions out of 50. If anyone is worried about the test, don't be, it's all common sense and all explicitly covered. I am excited for the first riding day tomorrow. I picked this course because the 3 days are sequential, vs one day, then wait a week for riding days.
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Aug 14, 2013 05:28
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Day 2 just finished. One of the girls from the day before didn't show up. For the most part the day was uneventful, there were about 5 or 6 dropped bikes, by three of the ladies. Afterwards they made them sign some papers, does anyone know if they will have to pay for the damages? I thought a big part of the appeal of these classes were that you can drop the bikes without a big deal. One of the trainers got pretty pissed at the last one and threw a cone. The only exercise I had trouble with was weaving the cones, I was doing it in first gear, but I was told later that 2nd would have been easier.
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Aug 15, 2013 02:41
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Ninjajebus posted:Day 2 just finished. The weaving exercises are significantly easier if you shift up into second. Throttle is way less twitchy and you can maintain/increase speed as you go through them.
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Aug 15, 2013 02:55
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Ninjajebus posted:Day 2 just finished. If it's an MSF course the won't have to pay for damages. The papers signed was probably an incident report. Any time anyone drops a bike, even if they don't get hurt we're supposed to fill out an incident report, much like an accident report for insurance. Was anyone hurt? what time of day was it: What exercise were you performing at the time? Where was instructor #1, where was instructor #2? Did anyone see it happen? What does the instructor think happened? What does the student think happened? Was an ambulance called? etc... I would make mention of the pissed instructor and say something to whoever runs the program. Most of the folks that we instruct are pretty nervous and have never been on a bike. If we get anxious or upset, the students will pick up on that and things won't go well if the instructor can't step up and calm things down. 2nd gear is smoother, especially on the single cylinder thumpers. You might need to use the friction zone more or keep the engine speed (revs) up a bitwhile in second, but the bike won't pitch front to back as much as you get on and off the throttle. I use second gear for the double u-turn box as well. Most of the classes they'll ask me to go through the double u-turn box a number of times. The first time through I use the "correct" technique, big head turn, getting my weight shifted way over to one side, and cranking the bars around. The second time I go through I'll do it at idle, get the head turn in and crank the bars while remaining stationary in the seat. The last time through I run the whole thing with "all the tricks", drag the rear break, shift the weight, keep the RPMs up while in second gear. It's noisy as hell from the revving but it's smooth as butter. After all that I explain that it's a drat nice skill to have, but not a life saving one. Make the u-turn in the space provided. Use the correct technique and it works, but the taught technique is not the "end all". I find most students can do the double u-turn while in second gear, getting their head turn in and cranking the bars to lock. The counter balance helps, more so with bugger folks, but isn't always necessary. Skreemer fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Aug 15, 2013 |
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Aug 15, 2013 03:19
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Skreemer posted:
I have 10k miles and just under a year of riding under my belt. I have to make a u turn every time I ride to work. I still suck at u turns and would probably fail that part of the test if I had to take it today. Really slow maneuvers like that throw me off. Get me over 10mph or enough room to goose it for a tighter turn and I'm good to go. Make me turn around in a box at 5MPH and laugh at my comical lack of balance/coordination. Whatever, chicks don't care how well you can u turn.
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Aug 15, 2013 06:32
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It's less "never having to make a u-turn" and more you will never make two consecutive u-turns in a 12ft wide space basically ever. I did the box in first gear at idle just counterweighting and jacking the bars to lock. Works fine, accumulates zero points, and sets you up for a nice speedy shift into second to do the swerve after (assuming that all courses do both those exercises at once for the eval, mine did.) E: The rebels they had for my course had so little room in the friction zone that bothering to rev up and control speed with the clutch in second was drat near useless. Digital_Jesus fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Aug 16, 2013 |
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Aug 16, 2013 01:24
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Stugazi posted:I have 10k miles and just under a year of riding under my belt. On the other hand, the more confident I am in my maneuvers the more I find myself in situations that require them.
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Aug 16, 2013 02:15
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Day 3 is complete. I passed! I blew the box, going out of bounds, but not putting my feet down. The swerve wasn't an issue. The emergency stop went ok, but after was told I should work on it. Lastly the turns, I accidentally went wide on the first turn, luckily it wasn't graded, and after I slowed down, I ended up going much faster than in practice. The coach said I had a pretty good score. But I was nervous while waiting for the grade, thinking it would be close. Two or three people didn't pass, from what I could tell and from what they told me, they weren't going fast enough in the evaluation. Now to get a bike!
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Aug 16, 2013 03:03
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I did my basic handling test today, I guess it's the New Zealand equivalent of the MSF. Stuff like figure eights, staying within the lines, etc. We (by which I mean I, as I was the only one there that day until the actual test) got to practice for an hour or so doing stuff like throttle control, weaving between cones, riding around a course, stuff like that. The instructor was a nice dude so that was cool, positive encouragement helped a lot. I stalled a fair bit on launching... I'm really not very good at that. I was either letting off the clutch too fast and stalling or giving it gas and then letting off the clutch too fast, jerking me forward a bit. Between the two I preferred the latter, but the instructor wanted me to try without gas. No falls and no clutch-dumping into 40 km/h starts, so that's nice. Also it was pissing with rain which sucked but wasn't really relevant to the low speed stuff. Overall it was pretty fun and I'm keen to get a bike and start learning more stuff. Oh, we were riding 2011 Suzuki GT125s.
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Aug 17, 2013 08:43
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Wife and I completed our first day of MSF yesterday. Overall, it went pretty well. No rain, no major dumps, etc. We did have a woman decked out in Harley gear that hadn't even gotten close to familiarize herself with the friction zone by the end of the day, which also ended up being a fun experiment running first gear the entire exercise where we were to be shifting into 2nd and 3rd. Not sure she upshifted once when she was supposed to, and she was oblivious at the CROSSING pause and goes---going so far as to even enter the wrong ones, and leave the wrong ones, but somehow enter the proper staging lane for quick braking. The thing that really highlighted this lady was when we tried to reschedule the hours for the next day. Eight out of nine people agreed on starting earlier in order to a) finish earlier b) try and miss as much rain as possible (70% today starting around 11am). After we all agreed on 7:15 (vs. 8am standard start time), she chimes in saying even 8 am is pushing it on her end. You could hear the room deflate. Wife and I are thinking there's a 80% chance she doesn't even show up today....which would really be great. All in all, really great course. Very well worth the money. Day two lunch update... Bad woman much better... Pouring rain for all exercises... Ugh does that suck... Day two update two... Riding test passed for both my wife and I, awaiting test score... Here's to hoping haha :-) Dead Pressed fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Aug 18, 2013 |
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Aug 18, 2013 11:25
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Dead Pressed posted:Day two lunch update... Bad woman much better... Pouring rain for all exercises... Ugh does that suck... While it does kind of suck, at least you got some braking and turning in on a wet range.
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Aug 19, 2013 18:46
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With the info in this thread, I entered the MSF with a good bit more preparation. Thank you all. While I was worn out and sloppy by the end of the second day of the class on the finals, I passed. The only thing I botched was the "maintain speed through corner" test, oddly enough. I was certain I had that, but ended up adding speed too late to correct for what the test required. Then I got choppy in the corner, leaned to far in, and drove through the boundary. While my main worry was the emergency stop, I nailed that with no points lost. The box was a breeze and the most fun part of the course. You just slip the clutch a bit and it's easy. Friction control was never and issue for me because of this thread. Reading "don't worry about slipping the clutch" multiple times got it out of my head how bad I thought it would be. The course was taken at Alpharetta MSF at the Honda Complex. I cannot recommend this location enough. The bikes and gear were all in very good condition and the instructors easy to work with, enthusiastic, and patient.
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Oct 7, 2013 06:09
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So I guess there's this new online MSF course? http://online2.msf-usa.org/msf/eCourse.aspx My question is is there any benefit to actually spending twenty bucks on this. Does it count as the classroom portion of the MSF? Does it give you a discount? Or is it literally just tossing twenty bucks away for something you're going to have to do again anyway once you go take the actual course? I guess I just don't get the point.
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Oct 11, 2013 00:26
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spixxor posted:So I guess there's this new online MSF course? Right now it's not worth it. They are in the middle of trying to change the curriculum from informing you about the how's and whys and good tips, to making you mull over life decisions. Truly if the preview I got last year is what they are going forward with instead of asking, "What is the three part turning process?" The questions will be, "are you easily swayed by your friends to do things you normally wouldn't?" What will supposedly happen is that the course itself will be online (very similar to this eCourse) and the classroom portion is to be gutted to the bare minimum. For right now, enroll in the regular course, pay attention a little and 48 of the 50 questions on the test at the end are here: http://msf-usa.org/CourseReview/Questionframe.htm?pagename=RiderCourse%20Info
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Oct 11, 2013 02:48
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Skreemer posted:For right now, enroll in the regular course, pay attention a little and 48 of the 50 questions on the test at the end are here: http://msf-usa.org/CourseReview/Questionframe.htm?pagename=RiderCourse%20Info Thanks for all the links and information--this is a great thread! I'm scheduled to take the MSF with my girlfriend next week, but I've been taking my bike out around the neighborhood in the meantime, and all the information I can soak up about safe riding in the meantime is greatly appreciated.
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Oct 12, 2013 18:22
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OSU_Matthew posted:Thanks for all the links and information--this is a great thread! I'm scheduled to take the MSF with my girlfriend next week, but I've been taking my bike out around the neighborhood in the meantime, and all the information I can soak up about safe riding in the meantime is greatly appreciated. I did it with my wife and we both had a lot of fun with it. Good for you in getting her to join you in it.
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Oct 13, 2013 02:36
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