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You guys I like Hetty and everything but the execution of a crazy, evil, child-murdering doll is pretty kosher as fiction goes. There has not been a single attempt to humanize her. All she has done is talk about murdering children and torturing a little boy who doesn't even know that she exists.
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Jul 30, 2013 00:28
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cafel posted:I suppose it's up in the air unless Tom comes down definitively one way or the other, which is unlikely. However if spirits are more innately good or evil then why are mediums so necessary to manage spiritual matters? Problems would generally result from evil spirits which can apparently just be killed. There's nothing apparent about what's happening. A murderdoll is being set on fire, and that's causing pain and discomfort to the murdershrimp inside it. There's nothing to indicate Hetty is actually in danger of dying. The number of people trying to defend a character who has been nothing but a malevolent and now murderous entity is pretty baffling. Sometimes you just gotta slay the (six inch tall porcelain) monster.
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Jul 30, 2013 00:31
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The main antagonist is no more. I guess we get the wrap up Wednesday, the web comic is over.
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Jul 30, 2013 00:32
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What are you talking about? Boxbot is still alive and
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Jul 30, 2013 00:34
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wrong thread
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Jul 30, 2013 00:36
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cafel posted:You go to the Court authorities who are aware of who you are and that you physically can't lie to your owner when she commands you to tell the truth. You let them know that a rouge forest spirit, something they already frown upon on principle, is actively planning to commit murder. They throw her in a warded cell of the same general type they imprisoned you. C'mon guys, this is not exactly a setting were the phrase 'possessed doll' is out of the ordinary. I don't think Renard would be very eager to jump at throwing someone else into the same kind of prison he was in. Forest dwellers seem like the kind who would rather be dead that imprisoned.
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Jul 30, 2013 00:39
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You are seriously grasping at straws to find a reason why Hetty is some sort of hosed up victim here. She's a psycho murder doll who already killed a child. Renard was manipulated into killing an innocent adult man, almost killed Annie, and he regrets all of it terribly. And we don't even know if he's going to kill Hetty or was just expelling her from her body (thus removing her ability to harm Adam) or what the gently caress.
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Jul 30, 2013 00:53
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Bussamove posted:There's nothing apparent about what's happening. A murderdoll is being set on fire, and that's causing pain and discomfort to the murdershrimp inside it. There's nothing to indicate Hetty is actually in danger of dying. I guess the main point of contention I have about this whole thing is that somehow 'get someone to lock her up' instead of 'murder' is being labeled a defense. And if destroying the shell wasn't a threat to the spirit, why wouldn't it just have escaped it's bondage that way? Even if it was simply an evil spirit, the fact that it was trapped was clearly a major aggravation. Surely it would have had Reynard destroy the shell so it could continue it's evil revenge unimpeded. And again my point is less about which option is more moral in some real-world sense, but that those writing it off as the only decision under the circumstance are wrong and it leads to a wrong reading of the character. For sure in many other series this moment wouldn't stand out very much and would be the natural and unremarkable course, but Gunnerkrigg has so far been rather non-violent, with almost all of the violence so far being limited to about three characters, Eglamore, Ysengrin and Jeanne. And I suppose Jack that one time. This leads to bits of violence being a bit shocking and out of place in a way they wouldn't be in other series and I was just noting that Reynard now stands as one of the more violent characters. It completes the character clarification arc he's been undergoing this chapter. He had other alternatives to violence and the fact that he completely and instinctively ignored them is an important point. GodFish posted:I don't think Renard would be very eager to jump at throwing someone else into the same kind of prison he was in. Forest dwellers seem like the kind who would rather be dead that imprisoned. I could definitely see this, but then perhaps you would expect a choice to be given after you've defeated them, with the expectation that the loser will choose death, not just immediately and unflinchingly going for death. Still it could definitely just be an unspoken presumption that she'd prefer the alternative. edit: Safari Disco Lion posted:You are seriously grasping at straws to find a reason why Hetty is some sort of hosed up victim here. She's a psycho murder doll who already killed a child. Renard was manipulated into killing an innocent adult man, almost killed Annie, and he regrets all of it terribly. And we don't even know if he's going to kill Hetty or was just expelling her from her body (thus removing her ability to harm Adam) or what the gently caress. Cool, noting that people have other options then straight up murder (or possibly only painful immolation) in response to criminal activity is apparently the same as saying that murderers should be allowed to run free in the streets. And I don't really want to go down this rabbit hole, but people who are killed by vigilantes are still victims even if they have committed crimes. It's the reason why you can still get into trouble when you murder the man you know murdered your brother. But again this isn't some type of weird deal were I'm attacking or defending a character. That seems to be several other people in this thread. cafel fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Jul 30, 2013 |
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Jul 30, 2013 00:54
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"That's a cool interpretation, but surely prawns don't have serrated spikes on their heads - oh. huh."
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Jul 30, 2013 00:55
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cafel posted:Cool, noting that people have other options then straight up murder (or possibly only painful immolation) in response to criminal activity is apparently the same as saying that murderers should be allowed to run free in the streets. And I don't really want to go down this rabbit hole, but people who are killed by vigilantes are still victims even if they have committed crimes. It's the reason why you can still get into trouble when you murder the man you know murdered your brother. But again this isn't some type of weird deal were I'm attacking or defending a character. That seems to be several other people in this thread. No, you're just having really stupid opinions and getting called out for them. You are free to continue vocalizing your stupid opinions, but other people will, in turn, continue to call them stupid.
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Jul 30, 2013 01:32
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cafel posted:A Sad Effort Post Look dude, sometimes an evil spirit is just an evil spirit. It's just a webcomic, you really should relax.
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Jul 30, 2013 01:36
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The Red Queen posted:I removed the speech bubble fragment, hope that's okay! I don't mind at all, I was going to do it but I wasn't sure how to do it without it looking weird
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Jul 30, 2013 01:43
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Guys we still don't know what she was going to do with that aresenic, lighter fluid, and pins. Maybe she was just going to make a tiny little barbecue and have a cookout for all her toy pals! I mean let's get all the facts here, Rey acted way too quick.
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Jul 30, 2013 01:47
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One thing for sure, people seem pretty committed to the idea that Hettie was originally from the Forest. I doubt it's the source of all things Etheric (I doubt Lindsey and Bud came from there even before we get into Moon Girl or Zimmy for that matter)
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Jul 30, 2013 01:49
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Yeah, we know that spirits like that come from all over the world. She doesn't necessarily have to be from the forest.Bell_ posted:One thing for sure, people seem pretty committed to the idea that Hettie was originally from the Forest. I doubt it's the source of all things Etheric (I doubt Lindsey and Bud came from there even before we get into Moon Girl or Zimmy for that matter) Wasn't moon girl based on an actual moon spirit? (well not actual as in... real, just... you get the idea) Also I'm not 100% sure but I think it's been stated that Lindsey definitely wasn't from the forest.
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Jul 30, 2013 01:53
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Oxxidation posted:No, you're just having really stupid opinions and getting called out for them. You are free to continue vocalizing your stupid opinions, but other people will, in turn, continue to call them stupid. Could be true, but if you think that this is my opinion: Bussamove posted:Guys we still don't know what she was going to do with that aresenic, lighter fluid, and pins. Maybe she was just going to make a tiny little barbecue and have a cookout for all her toy pals! I mean let's get all the facts here, Rey acted way too quick. Then I'm not the stupid one here.
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Jul 30, 2013 01:54
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cafel posted:Could be true, but if you think that this is my opinion: I was more making a really late joke at the "maybe Hetty isn't evil and crazy" defense that's been rampant this whole chapter, but shine on you crazy diamond. I desperately want tiny-toy-barbeque to be her real motive.
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Jul 30, 2013 01:57
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Blackheart posted:Wasn't moon girl based on an actual moon spirit? (well not actual as in... real, just... you get the idea) Also I'm not 100% sure but I think it's been stated that Lindsey definitely wasn't from the forest. She's most likely based off of Chang'e, the Chinese moon goddess who is associated with rabbits.
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Jul 30, 2013 01:58
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Here's a thought: when Reynardine was in his 'wolf form', he was trying to talk Hetty out of murdering Adam. Whereas now, he's in his toy form, setting her alight. Remember, it was his toy form that smashed up Zimmy's science fair project. Remember too, that he was a wolf when he told Annie how proud he was of her, as she entered the Headmaster's hall to learn who was going to be the new forest medium. I think of it as "Renard when he's in wolf mode, and Reynardine when he's in toy mode."
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Jul 30, 2013 02:04
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Guys, Hettie is obviously just Coyote's prawn.
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Jul 30, 2013 02:31
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Portals posted:She's most likely based off of Chang'e, the Chinese moon goddess who is associated with rabbits.  http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=920
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Jul 30, 2013 02:34
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Safari Disco Lion posted:You are seriously grasping at straws to find a reason why Hetty is some sort of hosed up victim here. She's a psycho murder doll who already killed a child. Renard was manipulated into killing an innocent adult man, almost killed Annie, and he regrets all of it terribly. And we don't even know if he's going to kill Hetty or was just expelling her from her body (thus removing her ability to harm Adam) or what the gently caress. I would think that's part of the intent of the chapter, too--it could easily have been a different scenario. But it serves a purpose to remind people that even though Renard is loyal to Annie that doesn't mean he's tame or anything. I think it's meant to be a little hosed up.
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Jul 30, 2013 09:01
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Bell_ posted:One thing for sure, people seem pretty committed to the idea that Hettie was originally from the Forest. I doubt it's the source of all things Etheric (I doubt Lindsey and Bud came from there even before we get into Moon Girl or Zimmy for that matter) But how could she be Coyote if she isn't from the forest? 
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Jul 30, 2013 10:02
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Haledjian posted:It's maybe a little discomfiting because she (and we, up to a point) thought Renard was her friend for most of this chapter. Even if she deserves it, it's a little more sketchy than just happening upon a murderous killer and killing them instead. They were friend. And then he found out that a) she killed her previous owner, b) she tortured her actual owner, a kid, c) she was gearing up to murder him, and d) said owner wasn't even aware of her existence. Up to that point Renard probably never knew or cared about her background and just hang around with her, until it was revealed how crazy she was.
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Jul 30, 2013 10:16
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First: Hetty! Hetty!  But this might not matter after this week. ("You fool, stop calling me that! My name is Hmztrn'kt'kutvkkxcmky!  ")Second: Why are all parties to that silly flamewar assuming that destroying the doll necessarily kills Hetty (or more precisely, the spirit/creature possessing it)? It's possible that Reynard's rash bit of arson may escalate the situation from "evil doll doing nasty things to some poor kid" to "evil murderous crustacean spirit destroying all in its path" -- yet another addition to Reynard's list of regrets. Even if it doesn't go that far, I doubt that this is the end of either this plot thread or of "Hetty's" shenanigans. Can you imagine what the conversation would be like when Antimony and Reynard turn in for the night? "Hi honey, I'm home! You didn't get into too much trouble today, did you?" "Er...nope! How were your classes?" "Oh, they went fine. Did you hear about the murderous shrimp-thing that suddenly appeared in town and went on a rampage?" "Umumum...gosh, no. (sweating profusely) So what did you do all day?"
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Jul 30, 2013 10:49
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Urban Space Cowboy posted:Second: Why are all parties to that silly flamewar assuming that destroying the doll necessarily kills Hetty (or more precisely, the spirit/creature possessing it)? It's possible that Reynard's rash bit of arson may escalate the situation from "evil doll doing nasty things to some poor kid" to "evil murderous crustacean spirit destroying all in its path" -- yet another addition to Reynard's list of regrets. Or she could go possess Annie and gain both wondrous powers and a slave/revenge. (probably not) mjau fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Jul 30, 2013 |
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Jul 30, 2013 11:38
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Eglamore's dialogue when Renard fails to possess Annie hints that disembodied spirits fizzle out quickly without anything to possess. If the doll goes, Hetty goes.
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Jul 30, 2013 11:58
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Bell_ posted:One thing for sure, people seem pretty committed to the idea that Hettie was originally from the Forest. I doubt it's the source of all things Etheric (I doubt Lindsey and Bud came from there even before we get into Moon Girl or Zimmy for that matter) Yeah one of the things I like about gunnerkrigg is that the forest/court divide is not humanity vs etheric creatures it's those who politically assign themselves with the court vs those who politically assign themselves with the forest. There's etheric creatures on both sides and on neither. And I agree with the seemingly unpopular opinion that it's telling about renard's character that he's just straight up set hetty on fire, in the same way that it was telling that he was willing to help her torture adam purely on her assurance that he deserved it before he knew the truth and it's telling that he has no regrets over killing sivo (which is the equivalent of killing a policeman sent to take you in for murder). Dude is okay with violence. It's hurting non combatants he has a problem with, hence why finding out adam was just a boy changed his mind. (Though I kind of assumed that adam's sister was an adult. An eglamore type figure who had deliberately trapped hetty in a doll and adam was her younger brother who was unaware of this and inherited hetty after she killed his sister.)
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Jul 30, 2013 12:36
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Cestrian posted:(Though I kind of assumed that adam's sister was an adult. An eglamore type figure who had deliberately trapped hetty in a doll and adam was her younger brother who was unaware of this and inherited hetty after she killed his sister.) I think if Adam's sister had been an Eglamore-style adult with knowledge, power, and responsibility, she would definitely not have willed Hetty to her little baby brother in a diary. Instead she would have ordered Hetty into a box in a locked chest in a deep vault or something. Or transferred ownership to the Court at large. Or to someone strong, competent, and invulnerable like Jones.
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Jul 30, 2013 13:29
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Cat Mattress posted:I think if Adam's sister had been an Eglamore-style adult with knowledge, power, and responsibility, she would definitely not have willed Hetty to her little baby brother in a diary. I am now imagining Hetty trying to hurt/maim/kill Jones, and the rage on Hetty's face is priceless as Jones looks on impassively.
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Jul 30, 2013 16:00
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So Adam's sister choked on a shrimp right?
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Jul 30, 2013 18:31
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Yasser Arafatwa posted:So Adam's sister choked on a shrimp right? Maybe she bought a ghost shrimp at the etheric pet store without thinking to specify which kind.
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Jul 30, 2013 18:43
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Good riddance to bad characters.
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Jul 30, 2013 21:22
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Crimson Harvest posted:Good riddance to bad characters. While I haven't exactly hated Hetty as a character, I do hope this ends with some kind of finality to the whole issue. She's good as a temporary foil to Reynard, but not one that I'd like to see show up again because that would just detract from the chapter as a whole. Plus the chapter has raised plenty of other questions that I would like to see answered whose house is that Tom what is behind that door tell me your secrets.
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Jul 30, 2013 21:32
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Bussamove posted:Plus the chapter has raised plenty of other questions that I would like to see answered whose house is that Tom what is behind that door tell me your secrets. It's his house.
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Jul 31, 2013 01:41
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Bussamove posted:There's nothing apparent about what's happening. A murderdoll is being set on fire, and that's causing pain and discomfort to the murdershrimp inside it. There's nothing to indicate Hetty is actually in danger of dying.
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Jul 31, 2013 03:46
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Yeah, and along with Rey's attitude as he flicks the match at her, I wouldn't be too surprised if this is not exactly a "Renard is murdering her by immolating her" but like maybe he is banishing her or something. Or something else, who knows.
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Jul 31, 2013 03:54
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Paracelsus posted:It's interesting that Hetty starts to manifest the murdershrimp before she's actually set on fire. I noticed that, too. I have to wonder if maybe she was never really trapped in the doll to begin with. Hopefully some answers will come with the next update.
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Jul 31, 2013 04:39
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Bussamove posted:Plus the chapter has raised plenty of other questions that I would like to see answered whose house is that Tom what is behind that door tell me your secrets. It's the portal to the Portal-Fox.
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Jul 31, 2013 06:35
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Still very direct.
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Jul 31, 2013 08:01
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