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Is there a list of what judo throws should be known at what belt level? Even if not "official"? This is me being waaaaaay to much of a worrywart this early in the process, but I had recently read about the 2013 IJF rule changes, like a complete ban on leg throws, as well as plenty of fire and brimstone chanting of the end of the art, and it got me feeling anxious (enough that I'm wondering if I chose the right style at all, but like I said way way too early to be making judgements like that). I want to learn the banned throws and techniques too, but I realize that I'd probably make a complete rear end of myself asking about them this early, as I'm probably making a complete rear end of myself worrying this early, so a benchmark of "when should I know this" might help.
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Jul 30, 2013 22:05
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The 19th Person posted:Is there a list of what judo throws should be known at what belt level? Even if not "official"? https://www.usjf.com/public/rank_requirement.pdf, skip to page 8.
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Jul 30, 2013 22:58
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Got my next fight lined up, K1 again, at the end of September. It's a mixed tournament again, with a lot of long pants kickboxers as well as us Muay Thai guys, so this time I'm going to prepare for this kind of opponent. Spinning back kicks, spinning heel kicks, I'm going to have to defend better against that poo poo, close the distance, stay mobile. The K1 referees also don't detract points for clinching if you don't overdo it. Then I'll knee the gently caress out of them, worked last time :-)
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Jul 31, 2013 09:32
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spinning poo poo is the easiest to defend against. I'd work on counters to that poo poo if I were you, and to for points. Teach those goddamn morons that a fight is a fight and not a dance
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Jul 31, 2013 10:47
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Guilty posted:Teach those goddamn morons that a fight is a fight and not a dance Are you physically incapable of making a single post in this thread without being an abrasive child? 
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Jul 31, 2013 12:23
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Bohemian Nights posted:Are you physically incapable of making a single post in this thread without being an abrasive child? I suppose if you're the type who confuses a ring/cage with a film set, you would be offended... But most of the fighters in this thread don't have too much of a problem
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Jul 31, 2013 12:28
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More annoying than offensive I would say.
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Jul 31, 2013 14:06
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Guilty posted:I suppose if you're the type who confuses a ring/cage with a film set, you would be offended... But most of the fighters in this thread don't have too much of a problem I'll take that as a "yes", then.
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Jul 31, 2013 15:20
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The 19th Person posted:Is there a list of what judo throws should be known at what belt level? Even if not "official"? This is me being waaaaaay to much of a worrywart this early in the process, but I had recently read about the 2013 IJF rule changes, like a complete ban on leg throws, as well as plenty of fire and brimstone chanting of the end of the art, and it got me feeling anxious (enough that I'm wondering if I chose the right style at all, but like I said way way too early to be making judgements like that). I want to learn the banned throws and techniques too, but I realize that I'd probably make a complete rear end of myself asking about them this early, as I'm probably making a complete rear end of myself worrying this early, so a benchmark of "when should I know this" might help. If your club has any kind of open mat times just ask somebody about them then. Some of the stuff that is banned due to safety like Kami Basami or flying arm bars are really fun to practice. As far as what you need to know for what belt level, I wouldn't stress too much. It'll be covered in class. Tests, especially for the lower kyu ranks, are just formalities that are done as much for the testee to get a sense of accomplishment as anything else. If the instructor is letting you test for something that means he's already decided you are going to pass as long as you don't blow it off and show up unprepared. Thoguh fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Jul 31, 2013 |
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Jul 31, 2013 16:13
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Speaking of abrasive children my gym started a 3 to 5 years Tiny Tigers program that loads out as Muay Thai is loading in. OK actually the kids are super chill. But they get to break boards and I am extremely loving jealous.
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Jul 31, 2013 19:35
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Decades posted:Speaking of abrasive children my gym started a 3 to 5 years Tiny Tigers program that loads out as Muay Thai is loading in. OK actually the kids are super chill. But they get to break boards and I am extremely loving jealous. In college we would often do joint demonstrations with the Taekwondo club. By the end of the day we'd always be stealing their boards and attempting to break boards out of throws and other random stuff. It was super fun.
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Jul 31, 2013 19:37
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eine dose socken posted:Got my next fight lined up, K1 again, at the end of September. Muay Thai is a bitch because they hit hard and take hits without batting an eye. I don't know how your knees or elbows are, but I've found those are pretty good against a flying kicks. Had a black belt that kept low striking me in the bladder, just under the protective gear. So I watched for it and lifted my knee at the right moment. She was limping the rest of the day.  The other thing is to check if they allow grapples. Otherwise, get your high blocks down. If you can knock a high kick away at the right moment, it can send them off balance. Then you can get in a kidney shot or roundhouse. I think the hardest part for me is getting that retaliation hit in. My instinct is the block and flinch when it really should be block and punch/kick. (I only made it to Taekwondo greenbelt before I quit because of time constraints. I really need to get back in on this)
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Jul 31, 2013 20:01
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Guilty posted:I suppose if you're the type who confuses a ring/cage with a film set, you would be offended... But most of the fighters in this thread don't have too much of a problem Says the guy who bitches for five paragraphs if someone dares to suggest a martial art that doesn't spar might not be very good.
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Aug 1, 2013 00:40
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fatherdog posted:Says the guy who bitches for five paragraphs if someone dares to suggest a martial art that doesn't spar might not be very good. Personally, I like sparing for the simple fact of utilizing the moves on a real opponent, which makes a difference if want to use it for defense in real life situations. I had a great sparing partner who was about my size and we both were pretty in tune with each other. Then he moved and I got stuck with either kids or teenagers who didn't know how to pull punches or kicks. The trainers were good, getting hits in without killing me but they weren't always available since it was a large class. One guy in his late teens was specifically training for tournament and he beat the living crap out of me. Bruised my sternum through the protective padding by doing multiple quick punches without reprieve so I couldn't counter. Which sucked because I was only greenbelt and he was black/red. It wasn't like I stood a real chance against him. I'm just lucky they didn't allow grapple in that fight or I would been laid out for a week. That's right around when I started question going anymore. I'm going to learn a defensive style that is also helping me to be active, flexible, and overall healthy. I don't do it for ego. But hey, I learned some good balance control and moves that I can keep practicing on my own time. And when I'm ready, I'll give it another shot.
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Aug 1, 2013 01:15
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fatherdog posted:Says the guy who bitches for five paragraphs if someone dares to suggest a martial art that doesn't spar might not be very good. I think you've got me confused because I'm an active capoeira practitioner, and a high enough level to earn a bit of cash doing demos and film work, and come from a strong wushu background. I'm just not deluded enough to think that a rasteira has any place in a high level fight. Edit: Also I would never bitch for five paragraphs about that topic because real world experience would tell you more than I could ever write if that was the only thing I wrote about for five life times.
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Aug 1, 2013 01:26
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Are we arguing about using Capoeira in real life? Because everyone knows Capoeira is legit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6oiADjOdFg
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Aug 1, 2013 01:43
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Guilty posted:I think you've got me confused Nah.
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Aug 1, 2013 02:47
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Guilty posted:I think you've got me confused because I'm an active capoeira practitioner, and a high enough level to earn a bit of cash doing demos and film work, and come from a strong wushu background. I'm just not deluded enough to think that a rasteira has any place in a high level fight. I don't mind people being abrasive, I consider being a dick my god given right, what I can't abide is being wrong. Spinning poo poo when thrown by someone who has sparred and knows what the gently caress they're doing is effective there's been like 5 or 6 high pro file fights this year ended with spinning poo poo. I agree most amatuers can't throw it well enough to be doing it in an actual fight, but not respecting an opponent because he throws a spinning hook kick is a good way to get your poo poo wrecked.
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Aug 1, 2013 03:33
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BlindSite posted:there's been like 5 or 6 high pro file fights this year ended with spinning poo poo. Man, someone should tell those goddamn morons that Guilty posted:a fight is a fight and not a dance  In two weeks time, I'm gonna be a mat judge at a submission only submission wrestling tournement. Looking forwards to seeing at least half the competitors lose to draws. Bohemian Nights fucked around with this message at 10:32 on Aug 1, 2013 |
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Aug 1, 2013 10:25
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Someone post a video of Genki Sudo dancefighting the poo poo of everyone
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Aug 1, 2013 11:54
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BlindSite posted:I don't mind people being abrasive, I consider being a dick my god given right, what I can't abide is being wrong. Spinning poo poo when thrown by someone who has sparred and knows what the gently caress they're doing is effective there's been like 5 or 6 high pro file fights this year ended with spinning poo poo. I agree most amatuers can't throw it well enough to be doing it in an actual fight, but not respecting an opponent because he throws a spinning hook kick is a good way to get your poo poo wrecked. Link please. Keeping in mind how many high profile fights there are per year world wide and how many people are trying to use tkd or whatever to prove it's 'legit'. Oh yeah that argument where you refused to read what I wrote and put words in my mouth. Whatever, if I'm avatar to your insecurity, go for it
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Aug 1, 2013 12:05
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Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the Martial Arts thread!
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Aug 1, 2013 13:25
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Amusing timing, hosed up and overextended my right knee while drilling a spinning back kick last night! Walking is an exercise in pain.
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Aug 1, 2013 13:55
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Bohemian Nights posted:In two weeks time, I'm gonna be a mat judge at a submission only submission wrestling tournement. Is it an ISWA tournament?
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Aug 1, 2013 14:02
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Guilty posted:Link please. Keeping in mind how many high profile fights there are per year world wide and how many people are trying to use tkd or whatever to prove it's 'legit'. lol, trying to say stuff like this to save face doesn't work when people can just go back and read what you wrote. I just find it amusing that me saying that martial arts that don't spar suck got you into a tizzy, and then you come right back and act contemptuous of people that throw spinning techniques.
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Aug 1, 2013 15:43
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So, I'm getting close to my blue belt and wondered a few things. I'm 5'8 and 155 pounds, so as you'd expect my game is all off my back. I have some pretty nice back control, but my top game has little offense. Is this right for my level and size or should I take it back to the drawing board? I find myself falling prey to bump sweeps from bigger guys and am not really sure what method I could use to stop it. Any advice?
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Aug 1, 2013 16:52
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TheKingslayer posted:So, I'm getting close to my blue belt and wondered a few things. If/when you compete you're going to be going up against guys who are same size as you. There's no right or wrong way to develop your game, but keep that in mind. If you ever cross-compete in something like sambo or catch wrestling, not having takedowns and only being able to fight off of your back will be an enormous disadvantage. Against bigger guys, be ready to transition to another position or a sub when they bump or attempt a sweep. You're not going to hold one position forever against a much bigger guy.
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Aug 1, 2013 17:19
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^ Good answerTheKingslayer posted:So, I'm getting close to my blue belt and wondered a few things. As a fellow lightweight, I'd suggest using arm drags from seated guard (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItgLxy0M1sA) to get you off your rear end and generate some momentum for your offense, and I generally stand up and break closed guard as soon as I get caught in it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=032wIsVv0hY), since it might as well just be called 'upside-down mount' when you're up against a size disadvantage CivilDisobedience fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Aug 1, 2013 |
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Aug 1, 2013 19:26
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This has to be one of the coolest things I've seen in a long while. It's a sumo wrestling compilation video of a 90-something-kg western dude sweeping the floor with huge opponents. I've been doing judo for six years, but to my eyes this is WAY more judo than judo itself is: using momentum and circular motion to defeat aggressive, big and strong opponents. Sumo has a lot of things than a lot of combat sports have kinda lost: all martial arts were a way to practice breaking and killing the other guy, but because you can't do that in training, all drills and forms of practice got some sort of safety flaw designed into them in order to keep everyone in one piece. In sparring, that meant a bunch of rules, like forbidding fingerlocks or hitting the back of the head. Some of the techniques had the training version, which would simulate the technique without crippling the training partner and the rules would support that: if, for example, you grab only the head when doing gator roll and not the head and arm, opponent's neck can twist really badly. Same goes for when opponent is on the ground and you grab only one of his ankles instead of both and do gator roll to that leg, his knee will get badly damaged. If the rules give you points for turning him on the ground though, grabbing both of his legs and trying to roll him like that makes sense: it's safe and you are doing almost the same motion as you would do in a real violent encounter. Sparring was a drill that was part of the combat training. The drills eventually became competitions and sports and they became their own worlds, where the goal was to "win" the drill, not learn to fight: judo is now pretty irritating, because you can't grab the opponents legs and you are not allowed to grip with both of your hands on the same side of the opponent's gi for more than three seconds. Both rules are completely artificial, which is true for a lot of older judo rules too: winning the match by getting the opponent on his back or pinning him on his back make sense only as a sports event, because it gives the guy in the pin a possibilty to use all his limbs and giving him a fair chance, pinning him face down takes that away. For example cops want to put the perp face down so that they could put the cuffs on. Another thing that changes is the mindset: in order to win, you've got to trick the other guy to play your game by feinting and things like rhythm and distancing gain a lot more importance. Aggressive assault becomes more of an chess match or a card game and when the rules emphasize certain kinds of sportsmanlike goals (i.e. turning the opponent on his back) you kinda are playing with cards. Sumo doesn't have that: you lose by having any other part than the bottoms of your feet touch the ground or by getting pushed out of the ring. The logic with you losing because you are either kneeling, on your fours or on the ground basically is that you are gonna get kicked and stomped on if you end up there. With ringout, I guess the idea is the same as getting pushed down a cliff or a set of stairs. Besides wrestling, you can actually do palm strikes as much you want, and with guys that big going that hard forward, they must have a lot of power. There's no distancing, no rhythm, just aggression and intent and the whole thing is over in a few seconds. It's more of an assault than a fight. You also don't rely on one or two of your favorite techniques and try to set them up, you go with what you can get: if there's a place for an uchimata, you take it, it it's something else, you better grab that, too. To me, sumo is much more of an "real" fight than any of the UFCs out there, no matter what the marketing says: give me a thong and a hundred pounds of goonfat over a rash guard any day 
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Aug 1, 2013 20:53
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ManOfTheYear posted:To me, sumo is much more of an "real" fight than any of the UFCs out there, no matter what the marketing says: give me a thong and a hundred pounds of goonfat over a rash guard any day Sumo owns but I don't know if I'd go that far.
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Aug 1, 2013 20:56
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Thoguh posted:Sumo owns but I don't know if I'd go that far. Well the westerner wasn't too chubby and and the thong looked actually kinda good on him. 
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Aug 1, 2013 21:04
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ManOfTheYear posted:Sumo doesn't have that: you lose by having any other part than the bottoms of your feet touch the ground or by getting pushed out of the ring. The logic with you losing because you are either kneeling, on your fours or on the ground basically is that you are gonna get kicked and stomped on if you end up there. Except that we have hours upon hours of matches from early UFC and PRIDE and IVC where kicks and stomps to a kneeling or on-all-fours opponent were perfectly legal and Surprise! Often they don't actually end the match at all! quote:To me, sumo is much more of an "real" fight than any of the UFCs out there, no matter what the marketing says: give me a thong and a hundred pounds of goonfat over a rash guard any day 
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Aug 1, 2013 21:06
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fatherdog posted:Except that we have hours upon hours of matches from early UFC and PRIDE and IVC where kicks and stomps to a kneeling or on-all-fours opponent were perfectly legal and Surprise! Often they don't actually end the match at all! Also literally the first fight in the first UFC ever is a sumo wrestler blindly charging forward, running into a wall and falling down as his opponent steps to the side, and then getting his teeth kicked out all within like 10 seconds. Sumo is indeed awesome but it's about as relevant to "real" fighting as any other martial art with very rigid rules. Schlitzkrieg Bop fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Aug 1, 2013 |
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Aug 1, 2013 22:16
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TheKingslayer posted:So, I'm getting close to my blue belt and wondered a few things. Keep what you've got and just add more stuff in. There's nothing stopping you from taking the back when you're on top. Have a look at Ryan Hall's "Back Attacks" DVD series. Everything that I've tried to incorporate from those DVDs has so far been a raging success. Even if you just take the fundamental motions from the start of the first disc, like the chair sit and the spin behind, those will blow your mind pretty quickly.
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Aug 1, 2013 22:39
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I'm going to pretend you posted that awesome sumo video and then stopped talking. Good post! EDIT: ya that Ryan hall video is great, I don't remember much past the beginning of the 2nd disc but I do that stuff every day.
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Aug 1, 2013 22:52
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Guilty posted:Link please. Keeping in mind how many high profile fights there are per year world wide and how many people are trying to use tkd or whatever to prove it's 'legit'. Not links because there are rules about that sort of thing but just off the top of my head when it comes to spinning poo poo and TKDesque absurdity I'm coming up with: GSP v Serra 1 Pettis v pretty much anyone ever Uriah Hall v Adam Cella (amateur bout) JDS v Mark Hunt Belfort v Bisping It's not as common as the other stuff but there is a clear precedent, even in high level fight sports, that spinning poo poo can work when it's properly applied. My list isn't even close to comprehensive either, it's just what springs to mind immediately. Those fights were definitively finished with spinning poo poo (except my Pettis shout out but that's a different scenario) and if I just started listing successful fighters who regularly incorporate flashier moves like that then the list would balloon into something I wouldn't even have the endurance to post.
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Aug 1, 2013 23:37
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Guilty posted:Link please. Keeping in mind how many high profile fights there are per year world wide and how many people are trying to use tkd or whatever to prove it's 'legit'. Vitor Belfort Junior Dos Santos Edson Barboza Cub Swanson Dennis Siver Urijah Hall George St Pierre Shonie Carter Stephen Thompson Have all used spinning poo poo in their career to either finish or lead to a finish of their opponents and that's just thirty seconds off the top of my head. Spinning kicks and TKD are not the same thing in any way shape or form. I'm not going to argue that there's not a lot to be concerned if you're going against a TKD dude, but there are plenty of guys who throw the more free flowing Karate, MT and Hapkido style spinning back, side and wheel kicks who'll knock people the gently caress out if they're not wary. They're not the highest percentage techniques but to discount them as "easiest poo poo to defend" is ridiculous when there's so much to say otherwise. Most people who throw them well don't alter their stance outside of their normal movement as a set up and it happens fast enough that their opponents never see them coming. I've had people walking into spinning back kicks before and I've caught one in the hip. When they're thrown right they loving hurt. Just because you've never learned to throw them effectively and trained with people who can't doesn't mean they're not dangerous techniques.
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Aug 2, 2013 01:55
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Novum posted:Not links because there are rules about that sort of thing but just off the top of my head when it comes to spinning poo poo and TKDesque absurdity I'm coming up with: Also, really really recently, Belfort / Rockhold. If the dude can come back and argue as to why these aren't high profile fights or why this isn't spinning poo poo it would be much appreciated because lol.
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Aug 2, 2013 08:20
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Also Etim vs Barboza. Goddamn that was a beautiful KO.
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Aug 2, 2013 09:24
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Condit vs GSP. He still lost, but he had more success once he switched to the spinning poo poo.
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Aug 2, 2013 10:50
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