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Phlegmish posted:Is this correlationequalscausation.jpg? One chart that's always absent is percentage of African Americans in a county, naturally of course because then people couldn't pretend that Mississippi is just filled with fat Confederates.
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Jul 31, 2013 18:12
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Why would you expect African Americans could change the statewide policy decisions or be insulated from their effects
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Jul 31, 2013 18:14
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computer parts posted:One chart that's always absent is percentage of African Americans in a county, naturally of course because then people couldn't pretend that Mississippi is just filled with fat Confederates. You mean this one?  Edit: Actually, what are all those "others" in the Boston metro area?
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Jul 31, 2013 18:16
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wikipe tama posted:Why would you expect African Americans could change the statewide policy decisions or be insulated from their effects I'm not, I'm saying that when people say "lol Mississippi is the worst state in the union" they're (unintentionally) saying "lol Mississippi is the worst because of black people. " If there were metrics of just the white population they would undoubtedly be orders of magnitude better than the current statistics (although probably far worse than Vermont et all).
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Jul 31, 2013 18:21
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KernelSlanders posted:You mean this one? Irish that refuse to call themselves white?
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Jul 31, 2013 18:52
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Regarde Aduck posted:Protestantism possibly causes a lifestyle outlook that leads to diabetes. It's not impossible when you frame it logically. Considering the type of people who got kicked out of Europe and forced to flee to the Americas, religion probably is important when considering some of the ills of American history. Puritans, for example, were unforgivable scum and their legacy is still felt today. lol what is the horrible legacy of Puritanism? Besides New England's status as the least religious region of America. Like I'm just skeptical you can assign much blame for anything to a movement that effectively ceased to exist in the 1730s.
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Jul 31, 2013 19:02
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fermun posted:The Incan empire was in a civil war due to smallpox having killed the emperor and his heir. Well, there you have it. The Incas were hosed before Pizarro even arrived in Cuzco.
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Jul 31, 2013 19:06
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wikipe tama posted:Posted yet? After the south lost the war, the north has institutionally hosed them over making it the worst part of the country.jpg? The south being poor is a new development in american history, after all. [please don't take this post seriously]
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Jul 31, 2013 19:09
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Squalid posted:lol what is the horrible legacy of Puritanism? Besides New England's status as the least religious region of America. Like I'm just skeptical you can assign much blame for anything to a movement that effectively ceased to exist in the 1730s. Actually, it did have a very large impact on the subsequent development of American culture. Just not on its diabetes rates.
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Jul 31, 2013 19:10
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Phlegmish posted:Actually, it did have a very large impact on the subsequent development of American culture. Just not on its diabetes rates. Oh I have no doubt, but I've never really seen any evidence that most ills attributed to Puritanism, for example Victorian prudery, are actually derived from our colonial friends in buckled hats. I admittedly know very little about the theological origins of evangelicalism, is it Calvinist? Personally I suspect low church attendance among New England protestants is attributable to their Puritan history, but I've never seen evidence of that theory, so it's just as much bullshit as the other crap they get credit for. To stay on topic here are some religious maps  Anybody know what's up w/ that shinto-buddhist slice of cambodia? Weird. Europe on the verge of the 30 years war, or possibly right after, not sure. 
Squalid fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jul 31, 2013 |
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Jul 31, 2013 20:33
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Tony Jowns posted:
MMP is pretty lovely as a PR system, as it allows political parties to put yes-men in the list and you can't vote against them but for others in that party.
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Jul 31, 2013 21:11
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Regarde Aduck posted:Protestantism possibly causes a lifestyle outlook that leads to diabetes. It's not impossible when you frame it logically. Considering the type of people who got kicked out of Europe and forced to flee to the Americas, religion probably is important when considering some of the ills of American history. Puritans, for example, were unforgivable scum and their legacy is still felt today. But the vast majority of European settlement in America had nothing to do with religion. This holds true for New England, and certainly holds true for the South. Hell, religion was honestly pretty unimportant to white southerners until the early 19th century, having far fewer churches and far fewer religious laws than the North. Even then, Puritans were always much smaller in number and more complex in theology than people realize. Hawthorne's writing, not historical fact, is why we view the Puritans in such a way. I don't have much interest in the Puritans, but they get an unfair rap. As for ills of American history, religion formed the basis of progressive social causes such as welfare, abolitionism, civil rights, women's suffrage, and prohibition. As a side note, prohibition was very much a movement with a strong feminist background.
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Jul 31, 2013 21:41
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Regarde Aduck posted:Protestantism possibly causes a lifestyle outlook that leads to diabetes. It's not impossible when you frame it logically. Considering the type of people who got kicked out of Europe and forced to flee to the Americas, religion probably is important when considering some of the ills of American history. Puritans, for example, were unforgivable scum and their legacy is still felt today. Alternately, "poverty_sucks.jpg"
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Jul 31, 2013 21:48
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It also had a ton to do with the development of democracy. The religious background of the early New Englanders is vital and I'm not prepared to say a net negative at all.
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Jul 31, 2013 21:49
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Squalid posted:To stay on topic here are some religious maps Can't say. But the situation in China is a bit more complex; the Muslim Uighurs and Hui seem to not be depicted at all. Squalid posted:Europe on the verge of the 30 years war, or possibly right after, not sure. Before. Hussites were the proximate cause of the war and effectively no longer existed by its end.
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Jul 31, 2013 21:57
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Hussites were the proximate cause of the [Thirty Years] war... Say what?
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Jul 31, 2013 22:57
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:Say what? Ah you are right. I was confusing the first defenestration of Prague with the second. Even so, Catholicism was reestablished in Bohemia after the Battle of White Mountain, so it's still pre-Thirty-Years-War. ComradeCosmobot fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Jul 31, 2013 |
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Jul 31, 2013 23:00
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wikipe tama posted:Posted yet?  (Red: Krystal, Blue: White Castle, Green: Both)
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Jul 31, 2013 23:01
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Squalid posted:
Your example is among the more grievous but drat there's all kinds of mistakes here. Sri Lankan, but not Indian, Tamils are tribal religionists? Taiwanese are Christian? No Christian presence in Korea? No Islam in Xinjiang? No mention of Judaism in Israel? Tibet and Mongolia as Mahayana instead of Vajrayana Buddhist? It's not just way off, it's way off in bizarre ways.
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Jul 31, 2013 23:03
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stereobreadsticks posted:Your example is among the more grievous but drat there's all kinds of mistakes here. Sri Lankan, but not Indian, Tamils are tribal religionists? Taiwanese are Christian? No Christian presence in Korea? No Islam in Xinjiang? No mention of Judaism in Israel? Tibet and Mongolia as Mahayana instead of Vajrayana Buddhist? It's not just way off, it's way off in bizarre ways. I personally like how the edge of "Christianity" in Russia slices into China, revealing a small concentration of Buddhists in Manchuria for no readily apparent reason. EDIT: And Armenia is Muslim.
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Jul 31, 2013 23:05
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Jul 31, 2013 23:06
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Has anyone ever read Europe by Norman Davies? Lot of fun maps in there. 
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Jul 31, 2013 23:19
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Bugs Bunny over Eastern Libya? 
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Jul 31, 2013 23:25
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cheerfullydrab posted:Has anyone ever read Europe by Norman Davies? Lot of fun maps in there. Serbia is on the wrong side of the Catholic/Orthodox line. E: Also arguably on the wrong side of the Ottoman line. Only a small part of the circle is on the Ottoman side despite the fact that all of Serbia was under Ottoman control at one time or another. And if the West-East scale (left to right) is geographical why is Macedonia so much more to the east, the easternmost points of Serbia and Macedonia roughly line up? SaltyJesus fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jul 31, 2013 |
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Jul 31, 2013 23:31
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Gen. Ripper posted:Bugs Bunny over Eastern Libya? He should have taken an left turn at Albaquarky.
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Jul 31, 2013 23:36
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cheerfullydrab posted:Has anyone ever read Europe by Norman Davies? Lot of fun maps in there. It was an entertaining read and I got to look smart by reading a 1300-page book, but the frustrating part (not Davies' fault, really) was that the themes of history were only painted very broadly in the book, with a lot of the specifics not necessarily contributing to the overall narrative. I guess that's the downside of such an ambitious history, rather than just a history of European religion or politics, for instance.
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Jul 31, 2013 23:54
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Regarde Aduck posted:Protestantism possibly causes a lifestyle outlook that leads to diabetes. It's not impossible when you frame it logically. Considering the type of people who got kicked out of Europe and forced to flee to the Americas, religion probably is important when considering some of the ills of American history. Puritans, for example, were unforgivable scum and their legacy is still felt today. Their legacy isn't felt in the South. The puritans settled New England. The South was settled by Royalist cavaliers and planters from the Caribbean in the lowlands, and Scotch-Irish in the backcountry hills. The regions settled by Puritans were the first to start the progressive movement. Their pietistic descendents thought they could make God's Kingdom on Earth by using the government to eliminate social ills like poverty and drunkenness.
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Aug 1, 2013 00:32
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Squalid posted:
Aren't the portions of India over Bangladesh Christian Majority? 
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Aug 1, 2013 00:44
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I don't think I've ever seen a map of religious cross multiple countries that didn't gently caress it up somehow. They always make simplifications like in Xinjiang, or with religious categories like "Shinto Buddhism" and "Confucianism-Taoism-Buddhism". Even if they fixed that, do you deal with Han areas in Dzungaria? Occasional Seveners? The way every urban area has different demographics from rural areas? It's not really something to map that lends itself to broad flat colors, I think.
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Aug 1, 2013 01:06
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Syritta posted:I don't think I've ever seen a map of religious cross multiple countries that didn't gently caress it up somehow. They always make simplifications like in Xinjiang, or with religious categories like "Shinto Buddhism" and "Confucianism-Taoism-Buddhism". Even if they fixed that, do you deal with Han areas in Dzungaria? Occasional Seveners? The way every urban area has different demographics from rural areas? It's not really something to map that lends itself to broad flat colors, I think. I would imagine the best way to map it would be dot matrix like NYT Mapping America does. You could blend the colors if you really wanted to. The big thing about the map would be cite the source for all the data because the map is really just a snapshot of a particular moment and with religion I think it would very subject to change.
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Aug 1, 2013 02:38
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It's also calling Confucianism a religion when in fact it is a philosophy. Taoism is also a philosophy, albeit one with religious elements. Neither of them are 'religions' in the same sense that, say, Hinduism and Islam are (although Taoism is closer to that than Confucianism). The map-maker probably confused them with Chinese folk religion, which is, in fact, one of the major world religious traditions.
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Aug 1, 2013 02:41
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platedlizard posted:It's also calling Confucianism a religion when in fact it is a philosophy. Taoism is also a philosophy, albeit one with religious elements. Neither of them are 'religions' in the same sense that, say, Hinduism and Islam are (although Taoism is closer to that than Confucianism). The map-maker probably confused them with Chinese folk religion, which is, in fact, one of the major world religious traditions. That's a very big statement to make, and not one which most sociologists working in the field would be prepared to agree with. There are Confucian priests, rituals, sacred places, myths, and so on. (Though they certainly aren't religions in the same sense as Hinduism given that the idea of a coherent monolithic religion called Hinduism is a colonial invention.) e: Though it's kind of a moot point anyway since the idea of religion is by and large a fairly recent Western invention as well (e.g. the Chinese word is a back-formation meant to encompass the Western concept). Zohar fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Aug 1, 2013 |
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Aug 1, 2013 02:44
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Zohar posted:That's a very big statement to make, and not one which most sociologists working in the field would be prepared to agree with. There are Confucian priests, rituals, sacred places, myths, and so on. (Though they certainly aren't religions in the same sense as Hinduism given that the idea of a coherent monolithic religion called Hinduism is a colonial invention.) Well that's what my Chinese teacher told me, I figured she's from China, she would know. e. still, the map leaves out Chinese folk religion, which was my main point I guess platedlizard fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Aug 1, 2013 |
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Aug 1, 2013 02:47
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platedlizard posted:Well that's what my Chinese teacher told me, I figured she's from China, she would know. I always got the impression that it's a gray line and their terms don't match our terms, thus it's possible to think it's one or the other, both, neither, or anything. Zohar posted:(Though they certainly aren't religions in the same sense as Hinduism given that the idea of a coherent monolithic religion called Hinduism is a colonial invention.) This is a good question I've never got a clear answer on. Do Hindus consider all other Hindus and themselves a part of Hinduism? I grew up nominally Christian and consider all protestants, catholics, orthodox, etc to be a part of Christianity. But Hinduism is pretty alien to me and supposedly has a few million gods, who happen to be one god and you can also be an atheist in Hinduism if you like. Should Hindus be classified together?
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Aug 1, 2013 02:53
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It depends on how you define these things, but generally saying they're 'not religions' tends to imply a dismissal of all the ritual aspects which is basically objectively unfounded given Confucius' own continual insistence on the importance of rites. Anyway, it's worth bearing in mind the "philosophy not a religion" thing is also the result of a major historical controversy that rolled on for the better part of three centuries so I wouldn't trust any blanket statements on the issue. On Hinduism someone else can probably give a better answer than me, but my understanding is that nowadays the Western concept of Hinduism has largely been assimilated/reappropriated because of the spread of Hindu nationalism and various Western concepts and liberal viewpoints in India.
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Aug 1, 2013 02:57
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I've been told that Islam, Buddhist, Taoism are all religions but Christianity isn't a religion, it's a personal relationship with christ.
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Aug 1, 2013 02:58
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Baronjutter posted:I've been told that Islam, Buddhist, Taoism are all religions but Christianity isn't a religion, it's a personal relationship with christ. I will guarantee that no Muslim, Buddhist or Taoist told you that.
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Aug 1, 2013 03:23
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I read a book called Why I Am Not A Hindu by an Indian dude and the entire thesis was that Hinduism was the religion of Brahmins and was used as a sort of imperialist tool against the lower castes. The title was intentionally controversial and the author was obviously sympathetic to Marxian concepts of hegemony and class warfare but it was an interesting glimpse at the diversity of opinion on Hinduism by Hindus. He claimed never to have even heard of Brahma and Shiva until he entered a school taught by Brahmins, and that his own family exclusively worshipped a different set of deities I'd never heard of. He was basically advocating for the murder of all Brahmins and Kshatriyas, so it made for a nice contrast to the other books on Hinduism I was reading at the same time which tended to minimize any complaints made against the caste system.
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Aug 1, 2013 03:24
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The "everything is a religion except for Jesus" thing is part of Lutheran dogma I think, I remember there's a part in (I think) the Augsburg confession specifically decrying 'religio', and more recently Karl Barth also made arguments to that effect.Squalid posted:I read a book called Why I Am Not A Hindu by an Indian dude and the entire thesis was that Hinduism was the religion of Brahmins and was used as a sort of imperialist tool against the lower castes. ... Interestingly enough I have an 'encyclopedia of philosophy' from communist Hungary which says pretty much this, and that Buddhism emerged as a class reaction of the lower castes.
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Aug 1, 2013 03:31
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Squalid posted:I read a book called Why I Am Not A Hindu by an Indian dude and the entire thesis was that Hinduism was the religion of Brahmins and was used as a sort of imperialist tool against the lower castes. The title was intentionally controversial and the author was obviously sympathetic to Marxian concepts of hegemony and class warfare but it was an interesting glimpse at the diversity of opinion on Hinduism by Hindus. He claimed never to have even heard of Brahma and Shiva until he entered a school taught by Brahmins, and that his own family exclusively worshipped a different set of deities I'd never heard of. He was basically advocating for the murder of all Brahmins and Kshatriyas, so it made for a nice contrast to the other books on Hinduism I was reading at the same time which tended to minimize any complaints made against the caste system. Just be a shakta and throw the whole drat caste thing out the window while maintaining that you're a member of the third largest Hindu sect! Hinduism has just about enough of an organized pantheon structure that you can squint and squash in all the smaller variations and unusual quirks pretty easily. Also, the overwhelming majority of Hindus are Vaishnavite-ish or Shaivite-ish.
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Aug 1, 2013 04:03
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