Paradox Grand Strategy: From the Carnival of Lust to the Enlightened Times

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Paradox Grand Strategy: From the Carnival of Lust to the Enlightened Times

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Wiz: May 16, 2004; Nap Ghost

Morholt posted:

Hopefully with the AI selling provinces we won't have Spanish exclaves in Anatolia and the like. Pretty borders!

Mostly the AI just won't take useless provinces in the first place.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 12:01

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# ? May 31, 2024 15:49

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

GuyDudeBroMan posted:

Is it good now? I heard review saying it kinda went the Master of Orion 3 route where the AI just does everything for you and there is no real fun to it. Is that still true? I know historically with Paradox games they always suck total poo poo at release and don't actually get really good until like 2, 3, or hell, even 6+ years later.

Is that true with HOI3? Is it better than part 2 yet? Or is officially a "lost cause" and we are waiting for part 4?

It's not 'good', but grab the expansions next time they're all 75% off and you'll can play through a game or two and not get bored.

Aside from the occasional interesting conversation with Darkrenown in this thread about HOI3, I'm really not sure what I'd do to correct all those errors for HOI4. I guess it helps that there's literally no competition for this sort of game.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 12:05

Pooned: Dec 28, 2005; Eye contact counters everything

I read somewhere that out of sync issues had been completely fixed in Eu4, was that correct? If so, does that mean that people with not as good internet connections can host MP games now? In eu3 if anyone under 1mb upload speed hosted it would increase the OOS rate by a lot.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 12:25

Kiwillian: Mar 13, 2004; Poor Sheepy :(

So if you pre-order EUIV (deluxe?) on Steam, you can gift a free copy of CK2 to someone if you already own the game?

I was just watching the stream they did about the CK2 importer and Johan said this multiple times, but it is pretty rare on Steam to get a giftable copy of a game you already own.

Any pdox dudes want to clarify? I'd love to dump a copy on a friend of mine.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 12:35

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Wiz posted:

Mostly the AI just won't take useless provinces in the first place.

Can you reveal what form the demo will take? Do we get to play a limited number of countries for a limited time period? Or a single country throughout the whole game? Or all countries for a limited period?

# ? Aug 1, 2013 12:35

Wiz: May 16, 2004; Nap Ghost

Orange Devil posted:

Can you reveal what form the demo will take? Do we get to play a limited number of countries for a limited time period? Or a single country throughout the whole game? Or all countries for a limited period?

Can't comment on this, not my department.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 12:46

axeil: Feb 14, 2006

Those new AI options look awesome. I really like how EU is moving away from the randomness of EU3 and more towards the CK2 system where you know exactly what's going on and can plan around it. Coalitions look like a great way to stop player blobbing that isn't the entire world dogpiling you because of high infamy. And the handicapping and difficulty options are tempting me to try a game at a higher difficulty level since it's not just giving the AI tons of bonuses and crippling the player.

Nice work Wiz!

# ? Aug 1, 2013 12:49

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

Wiz posted:

Mostly the AI just won't take useless provinces in the first place.

On the topic of provinces and the like, is a province's culture one of the things that the AI will take into account when evaluating peace deals?

PS In case it hasn't been said enough, Wiz you're doing God's work.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 12:50

Wiz: May 16, 2004; Nap Ghost

BBJoey posted:

On the topic of provinces and the like, is a province's culture one of the things that the AI will take into account when evaluating peace deals?

PS In case it hasn't been said enough, Wiz you're doing God's work.

Culture is one factor among many. All the existing factors for peace deal constructions are also exported to defines.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 12:58

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

I didn't think I could look forward to a game as much as I am to EU4, but here we are. Thanks, Wiz.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 13:04

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

Wiz, will you be retrofitting CK2 with your AI improvements? So that the CK2 AI will cut down on erratic expansion and consolidate their holdings better instead of the patchwork hell that CK2 games can end up as (especially the 866 start, good god)?

# ? Aug 1, 2013 13:15

Friend Commuter: Nov 3, 2009; SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.; Smellrose

toasterwarrior posted:

Wiz, will you be retrofitting CK2 with your AI improvements? So that the CK2 AI will cut down on erratic expansion and consolidate their holdings better instead of the patchwork hell that CK2 games can end up as (especially the 866 start, good god)?

A lot of the horrible mess of CK2 borders is because of inheritance, and changing that would mean gutting the marriage politics just so some chucklefuck count in Scotland can't inherit Tuscany or whatever. And that sort of thing is pretty historically accurate (see the horrible mess that was the HRE's internal borders basically at any point in its existence).

# ? Aug 1, 2013 13:50

Dibujante: Jul 27, 2004

ThePutty posted:

New EUIV Dev Diary: Wiz Edition

In short: this game is going to be so perfect oh my god

Pre-order vindicated.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 14:01

Dibujante: Jul 27, 2004

toasterwarrior posted:

Wiz, will you be retrofitting CK2 with your AI improvements? So that the CK2 AI will cut down on erratic expansion and consolidate their holdings better instead of the patchwork hell that CK2 games can end up as (especially the 866 start, good god)?

# ? Aug 1, 2013 14:04

Beamed: Nov 26, 2010; Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.

toasterwarrior posted:

Wiz, will you be retrofitting CK2 with your AI improvements? So that the CK2 AI will cut down on erratic expansion and consolidate their holdings better instead of the patchwork hell that CK2 games can end up as (especially the 866 start, good god)?

Wiz has worked on the CK2 AI in the past for patches.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 14:04

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

ThePutty posted:

New EUIV Dev Diary: Wiz Edition

In short: this game is going to be so perfect oh my god

Ironman Mode :rock:

# ? Aug 1, 2013 14:15

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Wiz posted:

Culture is one factor among many. All the existing factors for peace deal constructions are also exported to defines.

Nice. I'm assuming the factors are not (potentially) complex AND/OR statements like in event files, just simple stuff like core = factor 10 ? The former would be really cool, really allowing modders to gently caress around with things, but not the usual stuff you see in the defines.txt. . Well, it's really cool on its own, but you know how we are, give an inch and all that.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 14:19

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

Friend Commuter posted:

A lot of the horrible mess of CK2 borders is because of inheritance, and changing that would mean gutting the marriage politics just so some chucklefuck count in Scotland can't inherit Tuscany or whatever. And that sort of thing is pretty historically accurate (see the horrible mess that was the HRE's internal borders basically at any point in its existence).

True enough. I'd like it better though if the AI tended to push de jure claims from their titles though; a lot of times you'd find Orleans free from France or whatever and the French King deciding to push into Spain instead of going for the easy kill. I mean, the HRE is really a patchwork of duchies and poo poo, but it never really fractured apart into independent states (apart from the Italians) during that time since all the German Dukes knew that being part of it kept them safe.

Dibujante posted:

Spanish Netherlands is such a weird concept for me, especially since it actually happened.

Beamed posted:

Wiz has worked on the CK2 AI in the past for patches.

Man, I can't wait to see what he's got planned after EU4 then.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 14:20

Punished Chuck: Dec 27, 2010

I'm glad to see EU's AI getting an overhaul, it was a pretty big clusterfuck in 3. I think my favorite example was when I was playing a game as the Sultanate of Delhi and working on uniting all of India. I had mostly achieved this goal, with Bengal, Khandesh, and the Vijayanagars being the only surviving Indian kingdoms other than myself. I had recently defeated Khandesh in a war and taken everything but their capital, leaving them a single province literally surrounded on all sides by my own land. When the truce was up, I went in for the kill. I called in my ally Bengal, who was also allied with Khandesh.

Guess which side Bengal joined on, between the massive powerhouse in charge of 80% of India, or the OPM that started the war completely surrounded and only went downhill from there. :shepface:

I was trying to keep them independent as a buffer between me and the Burmese states but gently caress 'em, I absorbed them too as punishment for their bewildering stupidity.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 14:46

Dibujante: Jul 27, 2004

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Nice. I'm assuming the factors are not (potentially) complex AND/OR statements like in event files, just simple stuff like core = factor 10 ? The former would be really cool, really allowing modders to gently caress around with things, but not the usual stuff you see in the defines.txt. . Well, it's really cool on its own, but you know how we are, give an inch and all that.

I'd like to see those stored as a JSON object with a limited JavaScript parser and a set of environmental variables that could be used. That would allow people to do things like this:

code:

peace_values {
	province = {
		is_core = function (province) {
			if (_.any(province.Neighbours, function (neighbour) { return neighbour.owner == this; })) return 10;
			else return 5;
		}
	}
}

Then you can do things like (in the aforementioned example) have it not assign a static value to is_core, but have a function generate one based on whether or not you own a neighbouring province. If you do, then it's 10. If you don't, then it's 5. Or you could do whatever else you want, basically. I mean, you're still restricted by the caller of this function - it expects an int. If you don't return an int, it will probably exception you and set it to a default of 0 or something, so you can't have it, say, immediately end the war or make your dynasty into martians or whatever. Sort of.

But it would be really neat to be able to customize to this extent!

# ? Aug 1, 2013 15:29

uPen: Jan 25, 2010; Zu Rodina!

ThePutty posted:

New EUIV Dev Diary: Wiz Edition

In short: this game is going to be so perfect oh my god

This looks incredible Wiz, I cannot wait for that demo.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 15:30

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Dibujante posted:

Then you can do things like (in the aforementioned example) have it not assign a static value to is_core, but have a function generate one based on whether or not you own a neighbouring province. If you do, then it's 10. If you don't, then it's 5. Or you could do whatever else you want, basically. I mean, you're still restricted by the caller of this function - it expects an int. If you don't return an int, it will probably exception you and set it to a default of 0 or something, so you can't have it, say, immediately end the war or make your dynasty into martians or whatever. Sort of.

But it would be really neat to be able to customize to this extent!

Something that would be helped a lot by having non-static values would be the factor from bordering your owned provinces. Basically, have the factor be a multiple based on how many of your own provinces the province borders. That should encourage relatively pretty borders, by effectively making shorter "frontage" a priority. Though for all we know, Wiz has already done this. I'm just really excited because the game looks fantastic so far.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 15:57

Antinumeric: Nov 27, 2010; BoxGiraffe

Did anyone read the article at the bottom of that?

I can't wait to play Jomsvikings in EU4 with unique ideas.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 16:07

grancheater: May 1, 2013; Wine'em, dine'em, 69'em

Man, I really need to get me one of those fancy credit-card thingos and get EUIV.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 16:17

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

God drat I vow not to pre-order games, and it's a paradox game so it will probably take an expansion or two and a modding scene before it becomes "perfect", but gently caress I want to pre-order this poo poo. I want that converter. The idea of playing CK2+ till the end then picking up in eu4 gives me the biggest paradox-boner ever. If only there was an eu4 to v2 converter...

Hell the converter will probably be some $4.99 DLC but I still can't not pre-order.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 16:20

Leb: Jan 15, 2004; Change came to America on November the 4th, 2008, in the form of an unassuming Senator from the state of Illinois.

Sweet, those changes seem to squarely address many of the AI shortcomings that plagued EU3 and (to a lesser extent) CK2.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 16:24

RagnarokAngel: Oct 5, 2006; Black Magic Extraordinaire

Baronjutter posted:

God drat I vow not to pre-order games, and it's a paradox game so it will probably take an expansion or two and a modding scene before it becomes "perfect", but gently caress I want to pre-order this poo poo. I want that converter. The idea of playing CK2+ till the end then picking up in eu4 gives me the biggest paradox-boner ever. If only there was an eu4 to v2 converter...

Hell the converter will probably be some $4.99 DLC but I still can't not pre-order.

It'll be $10. Plus you get the Purple Phoenix, 100 years war and a free copy of CK2 to give to a friend. I think it evens out.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 16:31

James The 1st: Feb 23, 2013

Baronjutter posted:

God drat I vow not to pre-order games, and it's a paradox game so it will probably take an expansion or two and a modding scene before it becomes "perfect", but gently caress I want to pre-order this poo poo. I want that converter. The idea of playing CK2+ till the end then picking up in eu4 gives me the biggest paradox-boner ever. If only there was an eu4 to v2 converter...

Hell the converter will probably be some $4.99 DLC but I still can't not pre-order.

You might as well pre-order because at worst, EU4 is just as good as EU3. It's not like they heavily redesigned the game like was done with EU2 to EU3.

I can't wait for the expansions for this game, it's going to be awesome.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 16:46

TinTower: Apr 21, 2010; You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.

Nuuvem's Digital Extreme Edition page has all the tie-ins for pre-orders except for Purple Phoenix. I assume that any Steam serials for pre-orders aren't differentiated no matter where you get it from, and they've just not added it on yet?

# ? Aug 1, 2013 16:49

Pewdiepie: Oct 31, 2010

Morholt posted:

Hopefully with the AI selling provinces we won't have Spanish exclaves in Anatolia and the like. Pretty borders!

I'll be honest here. I think there's a historical justification for Spanish (particularly Aragonese) exclaves in Asia Minor considering the actual, historical exclaves the actual, historical Mediterranean powers (Venice, Genoa) had in Asia Minor during the era.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 16:52

BillBear: Mar 13, 2013; Ask me about running my country straight into the ground every time I play EU4 multiplayer.

Antinumeric posted:

Did anyone read the article at the bottom of that?

I can't wait to play Jomsvikings in EU4 with unique ideas.

I thought the Jomsvikings were some holy order you couldn't play as in CK2? How will that work out. Hell they never even came around for me.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 16:53

Ghetto Prince: Sep 11, 2010; got to be mellow, y'all

Purple Phoenix?

Anyway, I'm hoping for an overhaul of the stupid EU3 pirates, and Viking raids were the best new mechanic of the old gods; is there any chance of playing a rogue state again in EU 4? Maybe the Barbary states ? Pirate strongholds in the Caribbean? Wokou raiders off the coast of Japan?

# ? Aug 1, 2013 17:02

Antinumeric: Nov 27, 2010; BoxGiraffe

BillBear posted:

I thought the Jomsvikings were some holy order you couldn't play as in CK2? How will that work out. Hell they never even came around for me.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/07/31/crusader-kings-ii-to-europa-universalis-iv-save-converter-interview/

They are an unplayable holy order in CK2. They appear in 940 if the Norse own some provinces in Pomerania (Stettin for me). Apparently if they exist when you use the EUVI converter they become a country with unique national ideas. Mine only own a couple of provinces in hostile Tengri Pomerania but it should be a good laugh.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 17:06

CharlieFoxtrot: Mar 27, 2007; organize digital employees

Welp, this last marketing push has thrown me over to the pre-order column when I was originally planning to wait until the Steam Holiday Sale. Seeing how much effort has been put into the converter, all the new AI changes...

But I'll be honest, what probably did it was seeing you could zoom all the way out to see the whole world.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 17:12

RagnarokAngel: Oct 5, 2006; Black Magic Extraordinaire

Ghetto Prince posted:

Purple Phoenix?

Events and such for Byzantium.

# ? Aug 1, 2013 17:17

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

Wiz posted:

Mostly the AI just won't take useless provinces in the first place.

I'd assume not because it'd be tricky to get right, but will the AI sometimes go for provinces they have little use for but their enemy really likes, specifically to sell them back for a tidy profit?

# ? Aug 1, 2013 17:40

Dj Vulvio: Mar 1, 2007; Good morning Mrs. Bates

Just 12 days to ironman Scotland :fap:

# ? Aug 1, 2013 17:52

NEED TOILET PAPER: Mar 22, 2013; by XyloJW

RagnarokAngel posted:

Events and such for Byzantium.

I don't quite get why they did this, though. Isn't Constantinople pretty much guaranteed to fall in the first 20 minutes or so of gameplay? Even historically, the Byzantine capital only managed to hold out until 1453, 9 years after the game begins. Unless of course there's some event in Purple Phoenix that helps them be more than just a punching bag for the Ottomans.

Dj Vulvio posted:

Just 12 days to ironman ~~Scotland~~ Castile

Fixed

# ? Aug 1, 2013 18:09

Jean Pony: Nov 27, 2007

That's the best DD I've seen so far, better AI and more transparency WRT diplomacy were really high on my personal list of things I wanted in EU4.

:gizz:

Jean Pony fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Aug 1, 2013

# ? Aug 1, 2013 18:10

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# ? May 31, 2024 15:49

RagnarokAngel: Oct 5, 2006; Black Magic Extraordinaire

NEED TOILET PAPER posted:

I don't quite get why they did this, though. Isn't Constantinople pretty much guaranteed to fall in the first 20 minutes or so of gameplay? Even historically, the Byzantine capital only managed to hold out until 1453, 9 years after the game begins. Unless of course there's some event in Purple Phoenix that helps them be more than just a punching bag for the Ottomans.

You clearly have never been to the paradox forums (They love Byzantium. Like a lot. Like its unhealthy.)

# ? Aug 1, 2013 18:23

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