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It reads more like a reference to the actual Oregon Trail, not the video game by the same name. (There is an analogy to be made here, like the kids arriving to "settle" the new session.)
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Aug 2, 2013 09:34
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Grimbark Jade is just too drat cute. 
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Aug 2, 2013 09:39
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Line Feed posted:I'm a little disappointed that Dave is the one who is supposed to deal the final blow on English. Spades Slick should be the one to do it.
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Aug 2, 2013 09:48
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There will be a climatic battle, Lord English will be defeated, his head will roll over to Dave, and then Dave will unenthusiastically stab him in the brain.
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Aug 2, 2013 09:49
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Line Feed posted:I'm a little disappointed that Dave is the one who is supposed to deal the final blow on English. Spades Slick should be the one to do it. There's John because he's the protagonist. Karkat and Jane follow in similar veins, being the "main character" so to speak of their group that we first meet and are acquainted with. Dave because he's the pimp slayer. Calliope because he's her brother. Vriska because she's Vriska. Slick because he called dibs before dibs actually became a thing. I don't think we should take any character's word on who gets to take down Lord English.
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Aug 2, 2013 09:50
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There are a lot of prophecies about who'll be the one to kill Lord English. It can be hard to reconcile them, especially given that it seems to be leaving John, the actual protagonist of the comic, in the dust. But think of it this way: John has acquired the (hitherto-unexplained) ability to escape predestination. It's not just that he's the reason why all those prophecies can coexist; he's the hero because he makes them all irrelevant. Lord English isn't the villain in Homestuck; inevitability itself is; Lord English at best represents that concept. John and John alone can attain the greater victory of overcoming inevitability, and in so doing, he will destroy everything we think we know about who will attain the lesser victory of overcoming Lord English.
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Aug 2, 2013 09:58
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lotus circle posted:Eh, lets be honest, how many people are meant to deal the final strike? It will be Gamzee
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Aug 2, 2013 10:14
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Through time travel shenanigans, it'll be Lord English himself.
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Aug 2, 2013 10:22
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The character select is working, which caused the mspaprophet tumblr account to go crazy because I guess Hussie was reuploading the pages over and over while trying to fix it.
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Aug 2, 2013 10:25
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Wow, this is pretty disappointing to see. How does Dave think he can of any use to the party without his Time powers? Hell, how exactly is he going to fight Lord English if he refuses to fight Jade, who's way weaker than Lord English? I guess now we know why Dave didn't do anything in those 3 years on the meteor. At least with Rose its understandable why she's messed up, but I don't get what happened to Dave to turn him into such a raging pussy.
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Aug 2, 2013 11:26
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Nephthys posted:Wow, this is pretty disappointing to see. How does Dave think he can of any use to the party without his Time powers? Hell, how exactly is he going to fight Lord English if he refuses to fight Jade, who's way weaker than Lord English? I don't really think it ever occurred to him that he would have to fight Lord English or anything like that. The reason for both that and his lack of training is his raging inferiority complex. He doesn't think he's "worthy" of being a hero, and he expresses that through apathy.
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Aug 2, 2013 11:35
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I don't care who gets the killing blow on Lord English as long as we get at least a Demonhead Mobster Kingpin-esque fight scene that'll take up a good portion of the Act.
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Aug 2, 2013 12:13
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Thwack! posted:I don't care who gets the killing blow on Lord English as long as we get at least a Demonhead Mobster Kingpin-esque fight scene that'll take up a good portion of the Act. Don't remind me of the time I spent reading Problem Sleuth wondering when Kingpin will die.  I think I'll go visit a tree stump now.
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Aug 2, 2013 12:17
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glowing-fish posted:Is this a reference to Oregon Trail?: "you...trudge listlessly through the one dimensional narrative. Just like the early settlers did, before they had toilets or cures for stuff". For what it's worth, there was an Oregon Trail reference in Problem Sleuth. AD forded. Bathearst drowned.
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Aug 2, 2013 13:14
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Time players as a whole seem to be prone to apathy, probably due to the whole predestination business, which currently only Caliborn and John seem to be able to beat (thanks to that window). Though if Dave learns about John beating predestination, that'll only compound things.
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Aug 2, 2013 13:42
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Nephthys posted:Wow, this is pretty disappointing to see. How does Dave think he can of any use to the party without his Time powers? Hell, how exactly is he going to fight Lord English if he refuses to fight Jade, who's way weaker than Lord English? I guess now we know why Dave didn't do anything in those 3 years on the meteor. At least with Rose its understandable why she's messed up, but I don't get what happened to Dave to turn him into such a raging pussy. I'm interpreting his refusal to use time powers as pent up guilt about how things ended up with Davesprite. I mean we're bound to find out either way eventually but I can't imagine he hasn't spent the last 3 years on the meteor reflecting on the cost of being careless with time travel.
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Aug 2, 2013 13:45
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Nephthys posted:Wow, this is pretty disappointing to see. How does Dave think he can of any use to the party without his Time powers? Hell, how exactly is he going to fight Lord English if he refuses to fight Jade, who's way weaker than Lord English? I guess now we know why Dave didn't do anything in those 3 years on the meteor. At least with Rose its understandable why she's messed up, but I don't get what happened to Dave to turn him into such a raging pussy. I think you're looking at this all wrong. I don't think fear of losing is why Dave is hesitant to fight Jade, it probably has more to do with the fact that she's his very good friend and he doesn't see any point in having a dumb anime mock battle for a change. As for the time travel thing, we already knew he was thinking of cooling it on that. He faced his own mortality and died once, sure, but time travel itself remains dangerous and kind of rooted in depressing predestination BS. Not to mention they're supposedly going up against the master of it, anyway. The battle against their enemies was supposed to be a big "pose as a team" effort for the kids, anyway, and Dave was just going to roll with that, and he probably wasn't going use his time travel unless he really thought he should.
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Aug 2, 2013 13:54
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I'm rather enjoying what being evil is doing for Jade, and consequently Dave in his interactions with her. This whole scene's been pretty good! I'd guess Dave's not doing the time travel thing at the moment because A) he doesn't really like doing it, what with the potential for death and all, and B) he's gotten a bit complacent and doesn't really think Jade's going to attack her. This'll probably be resolved by Jade actually attacking him pretty aggressively and forcing him to fight for real - probably getting his rear end kicked and motivating him to get back in the game instead of moping around.
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Aug 2, 2013 14:27
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I hope Dirk messages him mid fight. Because that wouldn't complicate an already strange conversation.
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Aug 2, 2013 14:39
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I suspect Jade will have to somehow get de-doggified to free her from the Condesce. We know she can control humans and animals, but her powers are doubly strong in dogjade because she's a mix of both. That would also help make her a bit less grossly overpowered. Also quote:DAVE: no! 
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Aug 2, 2013 15:05
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Blackheart posted:I suspect Jade will have to somehow get de-doggified to free her from the Condesce. We know she can control humans and animals, but her powers are doubly strong in dogjade because she's a mix of both. That would also help make her a bit less grossly overpowered. I've mentioned this before, but I'm not sure if the Condesce can control humans with the Scorpio powers. If she could, why would she need the tiaratop for Jane? Why would she need to set up this convoluted plan? She could just take over the mind of all the humans in the incisisphere otherwise, and save herself a bunch of antics. With all of the humans gone god-tier, I don't think the trolls would be any match for them if they chose not to cooperate (and on top of that, the Scorpio powers have worked on trolls before, which makes me wonder why HIC isn't using them on them now). I'm pretty sure Jade's just getting the Taurus communing-power end of things. uranium grass fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Aug 2, 2013 |
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Aug 2, 2013 16:37
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RandomFerret posted:I want Telltale to do the game, but only so we can get Karkat for Poker Night 3. I would pay so much money for this. Like, done well, this would be the best.
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Aug 2, 2013 18:00
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Android Blues posted:I would pay so much money for this. Like, done well, this would be the best. Holy poo poo, yes. I kind of want this to happen really badly now and I'm going to be disappointed when it doesn't.
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Aug 2, 2013 18:02
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Grrl Anachronism posted:I've mentioned this before, but I'm not sure if the Condesce can control humans with the Scorpio powers. If she could, why would she need the tiaratop for Jane? Why would she need to set up this convoluted plan? She could just take over the mind of all the humans in the incisisphere otherwise, and save herself a bunch of antics. With all of the humans gone god-tier, I don't think the trolls would be any match for them if they chose not to cooperate (and on top of that, the Scorpio powers have worked on trolls before, which makes me wonder why HIC isn't using them on them now). I'm pretty sure Jade's just getting the Taurus communing-power end of things. My money's still on non-evil-Jade being 'asleep' thanks to the powers of manipul8tion while the dog half is being controlled via cOMMUNION, which opens up the possibility that Jade can be woken up via dreambubble to reassert her own free will.
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Aug 2, 2013 18:12
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It certainly seemed like Jade fell asleep right before she got controlled, but it's weird that her personality would be intact in that scenario. I'd expect her to behave like Jane currently is. Either way, it should be easier for her to control PM and Bec Noir once they get closer, so the kids seen kinda screwed right now.
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Aug 2, 2013 18:47
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Ariong posted:I don't really think it ever occurred to him that he would have to fight Lord English or anything like that. The reason for both that and his lack of training is his raging inferiority complex. He doesn't think he's "worthy" of being a hero, and he expresses that through apathy. I guess I just thought he was over that by now. I mean, are Roxy and John the only kids who've actually gotten passed their lame personality problems and seem actually capable of doing poo poo? Everyone seems to have turned borderline useless right at the finish post. This no time travel thing stinks of Terezi rejecting her powers and feeling useless. Its understandable with TZ cuz lets face it, she is pretty outclassed at this point, but Dave is a God Tier Time player. If he can't get over himself and man up when he knows what the stakes are, then thats just super lame of him. Midnight Raider posted:I think you're looking at this all wrong. I don't think fear of losing is why Dave is hesitant to fight Jade, it probably has more to do with the fact that she's his very good friend and he doesn't see any point in having a dumb anime mock battle for a change. No, I get that he's probably not afraid, but he's not doing anything. Does he think that LE is just going to roll over and he doesn't have to do anything? This isn't just about this one fight with Jade, I believe its been pretty heavily implied that neither Dave nor anyone else except maybe Jade and John has prepared at all for this day. Dave obviously hasn't climbed any more god tiers no matter what he says and he and Karkat only joke about actually training. The only thing we've seen him do is practice his rap, which obviously is going to be their best weapon against LE, but you need more than that. And without his Time powers, no matter if it is a group thing, he's just a coolkid with a sword. He's not going to do anything against Lord English like that. I guess this isn't just about Dave, but really all of the kids. How screwed up is it when the Condesce and Vriska are the only ones actually trying to do something? I know this is probably the pont, but its still disappointing to see Rose and Dave become total flops.
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Aug 2, 2013 19:13
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I honestly find Dave trying to stop time travelling really interesting. He has shown, if not a mastery, a very tight control over time travel and closing any loops he had created, plus just a general knowledge of time and timey-based things. He charted the useless maps of the furthest rings, and he knew about the consequences of time travel when within them. So a critical game point of his character turns out to be something he doesn't like, and so far seems willing to give up. But does that really matter? I don't think so. Knowledge of concepts has repeatedly been shown to be an important aspect of the game, and Dave does have that. I am not sure Aradia, who has been a godtier Time player for longer, would have as much knowledge of Time as Dave has because of his more active class and general usage of the aspect. Even Caliborn is implied to not have any knowledge of Time, he just brute forces his way through it and makes it work. Knights are supposed to exploit their aspect. Dave doesn't want to USE his aspect, but does that stop him from being useless? I don't think so. If Hussie has him keep this line of thought and continue to (not) act on it, I really look forward to seeing what Dave does to contribute, since it could be more interesting than Dave doing his old small loop creation to have a tactical combat advantage. life_source fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 2, 2013 20:25
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Yeah, it seemed that initially Jade's entire human self had been put to sleep and the Condesce was directly in control of her dog half, but since then it appears to me she's allowed part of Jade's humanity to wake up so Jade can operate autonomously. I'm guessing she's still keeping things like Jade's human morality asleep, though. Her skills with manipul8tion are probably much more precise than Vriska's ever were considering the amount of time she's had to hone it.
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Aug 2, 2013 20:33
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lotus circle posted:Vriska because she's Vriska. End of Act 1.
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Aug 2, 2013 21:05
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It's been pointed out that, should Vriska ever come back to life, that Cutlass of Vrillywhatever would make an ideal weapon for her. It looks very similar to the "ancestor awakening" sword she used in the beta timeline where she faced down Bec Noir.
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Aug 2, 2013 21:08
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Nephthys posted:I guess I just thought he was over that by now. I mean, are Roxy and John the only kids who've actually gotten passed their lame personality problems and seem actually capable of doing poo poo? Everyone seems to have turned borderline useless right at the finish post. This no time travel thing stinks of Terezi rejecting her powers and feeling useless. Its understandable with TZ cuz lets face it, she is pretty outclassed at this point, but Dave is a God Tier Time player. If he can't get over himself and man up when he knows what the stakes are, then thats just super lame of him. Well, you say he's not doing anything, but what in particular has there been for him to do? Training is all well and good, but honestly when it comes to the God Tiers I wonder just how far they have to go, or how much the extra levels even matter. We've already been shown that while the story has had escalating villains and raising stakes, this isn't the kind of thing the kids are just going to DBZ over and beat using their Power Levels. (And Hussie has openly made fun of fans for thinking that's how it works.) As for saying he's not going to use his abilities, it's not as if he's losing them by not using them now. What's he supposed to do at this moment, use his time powers to skip to the end of the story and stick his sword in Lord English? Right now it's probably better for him and the rest of the heroes to try and figure out what to do now that they've been thrown into this giant curveball predicament. If a situation comes up where he really should actually time travel, it's not as if it's been ruled out that he'll do it if it comes to it. But stating his belief that he really shouldn't, and not whipping out the Time Tables just to entertain his evil cackling doggy villain captor's whims, doesn't mean he's literally trying to make himself useless. A lot of the characters still have problems and they may not exactly be rife with excellent plans and powers right now, but it's silly to write them all off as useless, especially since even if they spent three years grinding by slaughting consorts or having anime duels, this is a new situation where they haven't even had time to catch their bearings yet.
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Aug 2, 2013 21:22
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Wonder how long it'll be before Jade busts out the "I will kill you over and over again until you do this thing" gambit on Dave. Wonder if it'd even work.
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Aug 3, 2013 02:50
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Oxxidation posted:Wonder how long it'll be before Jade busts out the "I will kill you over and over again until you do this thing" gambit on Dave. Dave has proven to be quite terrified of his own abstract mortality in the past. Dead daves are the enemy.
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Aug 3, 2013 05:17
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Hm. I guess it would work, since he's a God-tier and getting shanked for specifically refusing to play hero isn't especially heroic or just. So he should revive. And it's probably a sufficiently terrible thing to go through that he'd actually fight back to stop it. I'm a little surprised we haven't seen much abuse of the God-tier revival thing so far. It's hardly even been invoked, and would work really well for something like a training session (you can go all out on each other, safe in the knowledge that "death by training accident" isn't a worthy death).
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Aug 3, 2013 07:24
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It'd devalue death as a thing Hussie pulls out when he wants to gently caress with the audience by making it essentially a hyperbolic time chamber.
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Aug 3, 2013 07:32
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Dolash posted:Hm. I guess it would work, since he's a God-tier and getting shanked for specifically refusing to play hero isn't especially heroic or just. So he should revive. And it's probably a sufficiently terrible thing to go through that he'd actually fight back to stop it.
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Aug 3, 2013 07:36
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Dolash posted:Hm. I guess it would work, since he's a God-tier and getting shanked for specifically refusing to play hero isn't especially heroic or just. So he should revive. And it's probably a sufficiently terrible thing to go through that he'd actually fight back to stop it. "I'd rather die than be your pawn, evil one" is probably the makings of a classical narrative heroic death of some kind, too. As much as Hussie already has devalued death, and despite all the teeth gnashing when people thought God Tier would devalue it even further, it really is pretty nicely limited. John's talk about trying to abuse it to heroic ends and Karkat correcting him comes to mind, as well as someone(probably Doc Scratch, or Hussie) mentioning that it lines up rather neatly with the narrative convention of protagonists/antagonists generally only suffering meaningful deaths. And "Abuses death to save time" definitely isn't a technique I see in most stories. Other than possibly Lord of the Rings.
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Aug 3, 2013 08:57
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life_source posted:Knights are supposed to exploit their aspect. Dave doesn't want to USE his aspect, but does that stop him from being useless? I don't think so. You could argue that he is, in fact, exploiting his aspect by wasting Jade's time, giving the other kids the opportunity to go get stuff done without an omnipotent god watching them.
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Aug 3, 2013 09:54
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Grrl Anachronism posted:I've mentioned this before, but I'm not sure if the Condesce can control humans with the Scorpio powers. If she could, why would she need the tiaratop for Jane? Why would she need to set up this convoluted plan? She could just take over the mind of all the humans in the incisisphere otherwise, and save herself a bunch of antics. With all of the humans gone god-tier, I don't think the trolls would be any match for them if they chose not to cooperate (and on top of that, the Scorpio powers have worked on trolls before, which makes me wonder why HIC isn't using them on them now). I'm pretty sure Jade's just getting the Taurus communing-power end of things. Actually, I think the Condesce is not just using her commune powers on Jade. I'm pretty sure she's using the scorpio powers to put Jade's human mind to sleep, and then controlling the dog part of her mind. I know we've seen Tavros communing with a lot of creatures at once, but I am thinking there has to be some kind of limitation to her power. Like how much she can do at once? Why isn't she just mind controlling the trolls anyway just because? Her urge to dominate would, I think, compel her to do so just because. At least I hope her powers have limitations. Mind control is the most bullshit power when in the hands of a villain.
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Aug 3, 2013 10:41
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Bobulus posted:It's been pointed out that, should Vriska ever come back to life, that Cutlass of Vrillywhatever would make an ideal weapon for her. It looks very similar to the "ancestor awakening" sword she used in the beta timeline where she faced down Bec Noir. Maybe Jade just has it because she's 'inverted' and it's been associated with the Thief class?
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Aug 3, 2013 16:34
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