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Lemmi Caution posted:The Nazis did not quietly change the constitution. It happened in an environment of turmoil largely ginned up by the Nazis themselves. Mea culpa for my historical brain-fart. The moment I read this the Reichstag fire flashed to mind. It didn't reading Aso's speech. I'm guessing it's because he's talking about not making a lot of fuss and noise at the same time as talking about learning from the Nazis. It looks like we're just looking at another case of Aso failing at message control and knowing his audience (judging by the media response, not mine alone). He'd have saved himself a lot of trouble if he'd been a bit more blunt about linking the Nazis with being blustery and noisy. It's very clear that he was attempting to convey that to me now, but not everyone is a student of history like Taro Aso, so, like me, they piece it together minus the necessary allusions. A little less relying upon his audience's knowledge of the Nazi's rise to power and a lot of the misunderstanding, both accidental and deliberate, could have been avoided. I withdraw any statements I made impugning Aso's intelligence.
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Aug 3, 2013 04:19
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Mr. Fix It posted:I withdraw any statements I made impugning Aso's intelligence. Well, let's not go too far.
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Aug 3, 2013 04:37
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Well, he never said anything about "quietly", just "quickly, before anyone noticed". Seeing that their party IS trying to make changes to the constitution that go against polls and stuff, one could be forgiven for thinking that was their plan too.
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Aug 3, 2013 05:59
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Weatherman posted:Maybe it's just because I'm a dumb Australian, but I don't understand exactly why one can't take motorway-building lessons from the motorway designers who built the motorways in Nazi Germany. Is there some kind of evil contagion that attaches to engineering knowledge and turns your based-on-Prussian-engineering road into a totalitarian regime or something? Well the Autobahn are interesting. I can't remember if it was Bruning or Von Papen's government that planned and started the Autobahn project as a Keynesian style public works project (although both men were deeply conservative) but it wasn't a Nazi idea really. Indeed it is arguable the economic recovery often credited to the Nazi's massive spending on rearmament had probably begun before Hitler came to power. Further before the start of WW2 they were something of a white elephant, largely unused by a population that owned relatively few cars. The Volkswagen (people's car) subscription programme was meant to change that but the Nazis plundered it's coffers for other things and few if any people actually got a car out of it. It was useful for moving military convoys around the country but that usually isn't what the autobahn are given credit for. While they were an inspiration to Eisenhower creating the Interstate system this was two decades later in a country more technologically, economically and socially ready for mass car culture. Thus while slave labour can't be directly related to it (unless it was used for repairs later in the war) the contagion of militarism and corruption that were endemic to the Nazis did infect a civil engineering project they didn't even conceive of.
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Aug 3, 2013 09:30
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Aso was smeared, but that doesn't mean he's a good guy. Can we end this pointless derail?
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Aug 4, 2013 05:14
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It's not pointless for several reasons. The Aso Nazi quote case is a perfect example of how well Japan's regional rivals understand and control messaging in the foreign press, and how the inward-looking Japanese politicians don't understand how their internal words and actions are viewed and have impact on the world stage. Aso is in the position he is because he is viewed as a feckless yes-man filling a key post to advance economic reforms while not rocking the boat. Everyone in his party acted in accordance with domestic politicking by denying any knowledge of the meaning of his speech and deflecting all questions back onto Aso, completely oblivious to the fact that the whole nation of Japan was being judged through dodgy quotes and carefully hedged reporting in all the foreign press. In their scramble to never upset anything internally they can't even recognize when they need to speak in unison in saying the obvious and dismissing exaggerated and inaccurate reporting of comments by a member of their own party and cabinet. They have no idea how and when to present a united front because they don't have the basic tools to understand how internal and international politics interlock. It is also relevant to this thread, a discussion in English of Japanese politics, because it is so frustrating having to defend the likes of Taro Aso just because the English press can't be bothered to report authoritatively on what was actually said in Japanese rather than rely on what the Korean and Chinese press said he said. Using all the appropriate weasel words of course. If you want to talk about pointless derails, the whole constitutional issue seems to be one. It is not clear what the LDP intends to accomplish with revisions, seeing that under the current restrictions Japan already has arguably the strongest military in the region, discounting even American bases. The LDP has no stated policy provisions that even require constitutional revision to accomplish. So, aside from appealing to a tiny minority base of authoritarian idiots, why is the Japanese government even having this discussion? The Japanese public is skeptical of revision, and even with revisions the prospect of foreign combat missions would remain incredibly controversial. I'd argue that it is yet another example of the government's disregard for international politics, aside from American kowtowing, in pursuit of every last ignorant vote in the nation. You could lay whaling, inability to resolve territorial disputes, and Yasukuni on this same alter. A rash of petty special interest bullshit that keeps wounds open in perpetuity, does not interest the average Japanese voter, but gives the LDP an edge in elections.
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Aug 4, 2013 08:42
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I'm surprised that people in this thread are agreed that Aso was smeared by the press. It seems pretty clear to me from his statement, in which he went from complaining about the press creating a fuss about Yasukuni, to the problematic line, that he meant exactly what he said, even if it was based on a misunderstanding of history.
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Aug 6, 2013 01:56
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Another day, another Fukushima leak. This is what, the third? The fourth? I've lost count.
mystes fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Aug 20, 2013 |
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Aug 20, 2013 15:47
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mystes posted:Another day, another Fukushima leak. This is what, the third? The fourth? I've lost count. It's been leaking for years now. I swear TEPCO is just pulling ideas out of whatever manga they read the week before. When the people with experience dealing with this kind of cleanup said they would help they turned them away. The government should have not allowed TEPCO to run the show and replaced them with a 3rd party international team of experts. Also hearing about the exploits of the decon teams in the exclusion zone is terrible. Half rear end work without proper disposal.
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Aug 20, 2013 22:54
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Madd0g11 posted:It's been leaking for years now. I swear TEPCO is just pulling ideas out of whatever manga they read the week before. When the people with experience dealing with this kind of cleanup said they would help they turned them away. The government should have not allowed TEPCO to run the show and replaced them with a 3rd party international team of experts. Also hearing about the exploits of the decon teams in the exclusion zone is terrible. Half rear end work without proper disposal. "Wait, you mean letting foreigners in to help us fix things? Better save face and let Japanese organizations handle it instead!" is pretty much the exact mentality that created the deadliest single-aircraft disaster in history. quote:United States Air Force controllers at Yokota Air Base situated near the flight path of Flight 123 had been monitoring the distressed aircraft's calls for help. They maintained contact throughout the ordeal with Japanese flight control officials and made their landing strip available to the airplane. After losing track on radar, a U.S. Air Force C-130 from the 345 TAS was asked to search for the missing plane. The C-130 crew was the first to spot the crash site 20 minutes after impact, while it was still daylight. The crew radioed Yokota Air Base to alert them and directed a USAF Huey helicopter from Yokota to the crash site. Rescue teams were assembled in preparation to lower Marines down for rescues by helicopter tow line. The offers by American forces of help to guide Japanese forces immediately to the crash site and of rescue assistance were rejected by Japanese officials. Instead, Japanese government representatives ordered the U.S. crew to keep away from the crash site and return to Yokota Air Base, stating the Japan Self-Defense Forces (JSDF) were going to handle the entire rescue alone.[citation needed] Sheep fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Aug 20, 2013 |
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Aug 20, 2013 23:19
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Wow. Reading that is infuriating.
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Aug 21, 2013 00:51
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Christ, that's horrible.
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Aug 21, 2013 08:14
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So, I assume everyone responsible made a really heartfelt apology and that was the end of it?
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Aug 22, 2013 14:15
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ArchangeI posted:So, I assume everyone responsible made a really heartfelt apology and that was the end of it? The story I've heard is that the PM at the time went absolutely apeshit at his cabinet when he got wind of what happened.
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Aug 22, 2013 19:04
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ArchangeI posted:So, I assume everyone responsible jumped in front of a train and that was the end of it? Fixed that for you. Not kidding either. (at least in the case of the people that caused the crash)
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Aug 22, 2013 19:35
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When the first Fukushima incident happened, Icelands crisis response team offered to help. These are guys that had helped out in half a dozen different places, most recently Jamaica where they'd done a lot of good. The Japanese dithered for so long about it that it became moot, as their speciality was dealing with poo poo when the crisis was at its worst, not the aftermath. Was fun having to explain to people when we were asking for donations why they'd said no to our help~
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Aug 23, 2013 15:26
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Yay for Olympics.
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Sep 8, 2013 06:26
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Womacks-JP-23 posted:Yay for Olympics.  Be on the look out for angry super powered boys.
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Sep 8, 2013 06:29
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Is this why riot cops are swarming all over Shinjuku?
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Sep 8, 2013 06:38
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Stringent posted:Is this why riot cops are swarming all over Shinjuku? Partly. Some Korean guy was going on an insane hate diatribe in the station about Tokyo getting the Olympics, pissed off Japanese who beat the crap out of him and so the riot police were called.
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Sep 8, 2013 12:42
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Reverend Cheddar posted:Partly. Some Korean guy was going on an insane hate diatribe in the station about Tokyo getting the Olympics, pissed off Japanese who beat the crap out of him and so the riot police were called.
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Sep 8, 2013 17:49
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Samurai Sanders posted:Oh, great. I hope they can keep it to themselves during the Olympics itself. They manage to keep it to themselves when Japanese are ranting about massacring all the Koreans in Shin okubo, so I wouldn't worry too much.
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Sep 8, 2013 18:07
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Sheep posted:They manage to keep it to themselves when Japanese are ranting about massacring all the Koreans in Shin okubo, so I wouldn't worry too much.
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Sep 8, 2013 18:09
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The Koreans in Okubo should just spray the haters with honey sauce from those ホットク snacks they sell on the street there. That poo poo ALWAYS gets all over my shirt...really annoying and hard to clean.
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Sep 9, 2013 04:45
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Hey ladies. Back to the kitchen. http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/BL-JRTB-14870
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Sep 9, 2013 05:38
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Madd0g11 posted:Hey ladies. Back to the kitchen.
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Sep 9, 2013 05:45
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Madd0g11 posted:Hey ladies. Back to the kitchen. God someone should slap that woman. The only loving reason why she's on that committee in the first place is because she's echoing all the poo poo the conservative party members are thinking and saying (sometimes). Fake Edit: Finished reading the rest of the dam article. Oh HEY! quote:And her insistence that mothers stay home to raise their young children sounds eerily similar to Mr. Abe’s push for a three-year child care leave-criticized by feminists as backwards By time the 2020 Olympics come to Japan. They'll be a decade away from the real "Oh poo poo we're hosed!" point in their population. When 1/3 of the pop is over 65.
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Sep 9, 2013 10:52
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Kenishi posted:God someone should slap that woman. The only loving reason why she's on that committee in the first place is because she's echoing all the poo poo the conservative party members are thinking and saying (sometimes). I wonder how the political landscape will change between now and then. It seems to be drifting more and more towards hardline conservatism, with the examples of wanting to re-write the post war constitution to remove the universal human rights and the other various public statements like "The Nazis had a good idea" but it seems a lot of those are mistranslated or taken out of context.
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Sep 10, 2013 07:59
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I don't think anyone would argue against the LDP being full of hardline history-whitewashing conservatives, including Abe who is a descendent of, was groomed by, and worshipped a literal WWII war criminal (okay suspect but come on). Still they seem to understand that their mandate is basically limited to the economy. I recall a recent survey showing the majority of regular folks being against amending the constitution for example.
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Sep 10, 2013 08:19
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Consider there is also like no jingoism whatsoever about WWII on TV (which is still a major force over here -- things like Hulu haven't really picked up here, something which I'm sure is similar to the RIAJ years back and selling music online), it's almost always sad memoirs about young boys going off to war who never came back or how getting atomic bombed sucks. They might not know everything they did in the war, but they're well aware that war is terrible and they want none of it.
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Sep 10, 2013 14:15
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Reverend Cheddar posted:Consider there is also like no jingoism whatsoever about WWII on TV (which is still a major force over here -- things like Hulu haven't really picked up here, something which I'm sure is similar to the RIAJ years back and selling music online), it's almost always sad memoirs about young boys going off to war who never came back or how getting atomic bombed sucks. They might not know everything they did in the war, but they're well aware that war is terrible and they want none of it. Do those things mention the fact that japan, you know, started the war? Because painting yourself the victim when you are the aggressor is still whitewashing.
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Sep 10, 2013 16:38
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ArchangeI posted:Do those things mention the fact that japan, you know, started the war? Because painting yourself the victim when you are the aggressor is still whitewashing. I don't think RC was trying to say that Japan doesn't whitewash the war. She was just saying (as I understood it) that the war isn't celebrated and the average Japanese person doesn't view the era as some bygone era of glory that needs to be returned to Japan by amending the constitution
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Sep 10, 2013 18:01
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Historical circumstances started the war and we're all the victims. All of us. Everywhere. This is what (some) Japanese actually believe.
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Sep 10, 2013 18:02
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CronoGamer posted:I don't think RC was trying to say that Japan doesn't whitewash the war. She was just saying (as I understood it) that the war isn't celebrated and the average Japanese person doesn't view the era as some bygone era of glory that needs to be returned to Japan by amending the constitution
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Sep 10, 2013 18:06
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Samurai Sanders posted:That's good, but it seems to be in spite of the government's efforts, not because of them. Right-- I agree with you-- but if we're still relating back to RC's post coming off of Zo's original remark: Zo posted:Still they seem to understand that their mandate is basically limited to the economy. I recall a recent survey showing the majority of regular folks being against amending the constitution for example. The point is that, even if the government is interested in doing things one way, they seem to be aware that the people are not on board with them in that regard. Seem, at least.
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Sep 10, 2013 18:16
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Bloodnose posted:Historical circumstances started the war and we're all the victims. All of us. Everywhere. Literally fight any Japanese who claims this.
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Sep 10, 2013 18:58
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CronoGamer posted:Right-- I agree with you-- but if we're still relating back to RC's post coming off of Zo's original remark: You hit the nail on the head for me  It's not glossed over that Japan started the Asian part of the war. But it's kind of in a light that's like, "we had no choice" because of the US embargo in particular. They whitewash a lot of it. But even though that makes the narrative shift to one of a victim mentality, the underlying emphasis is "war sucks and this is what happened to our country because of it". That's why, I think, there was an uproar recently when a school in rural Japan removed Barefoot Gen from its library. Overwhelmingly people responded in a way that wasn't just "but it's a classic", it was "are they trying to sweep the reality that war sucks under the rug?" Politicians are a different story altogether. I am not sure Abe really realized the opposition to amendment within his coalition partners, like New Komeito, would be a problem, before the election. He doesn't have the supermajority he wanted to just do it, now he has to talk and convince people. Whatever mandate he has is based solely on economics and people made that clear. Although that's a mandate coming from the 32% of the population that actually bothered to vote, so...
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Sep 10, 2013 22:25
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Reverend Cheddar posted:Politicians are a different story altogether. I am not sure Abe really realized the opposition to amendment within his coalition partners, like New Komeito, would be a problem, before the election. He doesn't have the supermajority he wanted to just do it, now he has to talk and convince people. Whatever mandate he has is based solely on economics and people made that clear. Although that's a mandate coming from the 32% of the population that actually bothered to vote, so...
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Sep 11, 2013 00:24
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Nonsense posted:Literally fight any Japanese who claims this. It's true in the sense that the common man is just a pawn of the powers that be, but, yeah, the war was the fault of the Japanese government, military, and imperial household of the time and gently caress anyone who says otherwise.
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Sep 11, 2013 02:07
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I thought one of the reasons he wanted to change parts of the constitution, is to lift the ban on Japanese companies exporting weapons. IHI(Ishikawajima-Harima Heavy Industries) and MHI (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries) are drooling at the prospect of being able to export tanks and poo poo. Also the being a total dickwad parts as well.
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Sep 11, 2013 03:02
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