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Jason Aaron's Hulk also had the issue with the all-Doombot scene where they started questioning their programming and shutting each other down for it, so, I mean, that run definitely wasn't without its high points. Also, Jefte Palo's art was bomb.
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Aug 2, 2013 04:06
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:It bugs me that there is apparently not a single Unitarian superhero. Hey, a fellow cultist spotted. I feel a need to stick up for the clone saga, there's some really good Spider-Stories buried under the heap. Ben Reilly was a fun character, and it seemed like Marvel was trying to do with him what DC had done with Kyle Rayner and Wally West, then they said gently caress-it, and had him melt. Also, Aunt May's death in that is so incredible, it's an amazing issue.
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Aug 2, 2013 04:29
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Skwirl posted:Hey, a fellow cultist spotted. If it wasn't for the Clone Saga we never would have gotten Scarlet Spider and I do not want to live in that world.
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Aug 2, 2013 04:30
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Nipponophile posted:How about Chris Claremont's run on Exiles in Vol. 2? Didn't just about every arc of that series involve an Evil Sue Storm (except when it didn't and involved an alternate universe Sue Storm)? And then he threw in Psylocke and Sage and alt versions of Kitty and Rogue and ugh. Note too that the run was so bad that its awfulness permeated outwards like nuclear fallout giving Jeff Parker's run terminal cancer before it ever had a chance. This was also the worst run in a series that also included a Chuck Austen run (which, iirc, was actually fairly readable for ol' Chuck outside of being a dick and killing Sunfire).
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Aug 2, 2013 04:50
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Suben posted:Didn't just about every arc of that series involve an Evil Sue Storm (except when it didn't and involved an alternate universe Sue Storm)? And then he threw in Psylocke and Sage and alt versions of Kitty and Rogue and ugh. Nope Judd Winick killed her. He may have had some sub-par runs but his exiles was amazing and I am willing to forgive a lot due to it. However, I have not read his 52 stuff since I know it will kill all good will.
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Aug 2, 2013 04:54
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bobkatt013 posted:If it wasn't for the Clone Saga we never would have gotten Scarlet Spider and I do not want to live in that world. I read about eighteen of the thirty-five parts of the Life of Reilly before I just got sick of it and stopped. The thing is, up to about the end of part 5, which correlates to ASM #400? I was hooked. It didn't really slow down until I got past the part correlating to SSM 226, either. That was some good poo poo, I can't imagine how that must have felt to read fresh and new back in the day. If Marvel had either had the stones to go through with it or the self-control to stop when the stoppin' was good, I think we could have gotten something really amazing out of it. Instead, by all accounts Marketing and Sales decided to wring the cow until all the blood was gone, let alone milk. What a goddamned shame.
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Aug 2, 2013 08:01
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The Clone Wars has the distinction of being so bad an episode of the animated series was actually called "I Really Really Hate Clones".
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Aug 2, 2013 09:14
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bobkatt013 posted:Do not bother as nothing of importance happens other than Colossus turning into the Juggernaut, but that has been retconed. Everything else that happened was quickly reversed.
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Aug 2, 2013 18:03
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WickedHate posted:The Clone Wars has the distinction of being so bad an episode of the animated series was actually called "I Really Really Hate Clones". Also in the animated series finale, a squad of dimension-hopping Spider-Men (long story) meet one clearly meant to be the Spider-Man of the comics and he tells the series's version about his insane Clone Saga-hosed life, and "our" Spidey's like "wow and I thought MY troubles were bad, good luck with all that!"
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Aug 3, 2013 06:51
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Skwirl posted:Also, Aunt May's death in that is so incredible, it's an amazing issue. That sure was a beautiful scene between Peter and that hired actress. 
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Aug 3, 2013 08:09
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Jerusalem posted:That sure was a beautiful scene between Peter and that hired actress. The way they brought her back was dog poo poo, but I think it was a good move, if Peter was gonna be Spider-man again. Also I think the whole "I knew all along" thing was dumb, simply for all the grief Peter had to go through keeping his identity a secret from her. Makes her look like an rear end in a top hat.
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Aug 3, 2013 08:16
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Or is it Sputnik posted:Yeah but the thing is, that's nothing like how the clone saga actually was meant to be told. Depending whose account you go by, it was supposed to end in Amazing #400 from April 1996 (as per Glenn Greenwald) or some six months later (as per Tom Defalco - who apparently never told anyone else this so make of it what you will), not the year-and-a-half-to-two-years it dragged on after that point. Wait, is this a typo, or did Glenn Greenwald really report on Spider-Man at some point? Does Spider-Man have the ability to go through all my emails on only the flimsiest of legal pretexts?? Damnit I KNEW Jameson was right about that creep!
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Aug 3, 2013 09:00
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McSpanky posted:Also in the animated series finale, a squad of dimension-hopping Spider-Men (long story) meet one clearly meant to be the Spider-Man of the comics and he tells the series's version about his insane Clone Saga-hosed life, and "our" Spidey's like "wow and I thought MY troubles were bad, good luck with all that!" "I don't think I want to hear YOUR story!" -"Our" Spidy to the Ben Reily version. The animated series was really really great for a lot of reasons.
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Aug 3, 2013 11:03
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WickedHate posted:"I don't think I want to hear YOUR story!" It was also really weird because Spider-Man wasn't allowed to punch anyone, and no one could die, but they kept using characters whose whole thing was killing. I tried watching it again on Netflix, and the "fight" scenes were, um, odd, and they'd do poo poo like have Punisher, Morbius and loving Carnage show up, but no one could die, so they'd do stupid poo poo like give Carnage "soul-sucking" powers that could be reversed by the end of the two-parter, or give Morbius suckers on his hands, so he wouldn't bite anyone. (I completely understand not wanting huge body counts in your Saturday morning cartoon, but maybe you shouldn't give Punisher and Carnage multiple episodes if that's the case.)
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Aug 3, 2013 11:11
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Those hand leech things were way creepier to me as a kid than just a regular vampire biting people would have been.
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Aug 3, 2013 11:39
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thebardyspoon posted:Those hand leech things were way creepier to me as a kid than just a regular vampire biting people would have been. Moebius also went around draining people's "plasma" instead of their blood. Pro-tip, draining people's plasma but not their blood would be way worse for them, since he's filtering off part of the blood and leaving other stuff behind. I also loved how they portrayed the Punisher in that one. Particularly the scene where he's in his Battle Van,  , talking to Microchip, , and decides to hunt down Spider-Man. And as soon as he picks up a Stinger missle launcher, this alarm goes off saying LETHAL WEAPON and Microchip says "Frank, don't do it." That just cracks me up. Edit: Found a clip of it here at the 1.30 mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wppFZis3PgQ Man, the Punisher in that cartoon was really well done.
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Aug 3, 2013 12:34
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The Question IRL posted:Man, the Punisher in that cartoon was really well done. I was slightly distracted by the fact that he sounded like Fat Tony from The Simpsons.
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Aug 3, 2013 14:25
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The Question IRL posted:Moebius also went around draining people's "plasma" instead of their blood. Pro-tip, draining people's plasma but not their blood would be way worse for them, since he's filtering off part of the blood and leaving other stuff behind. The best part of that clip is how he uses a fin on the side of the missile to cut Spidey's web and they act like that's fine. Except for the fact that now there's an armed missile flying across the city.
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Aug 3, 2013 14:30
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thebardyspoon posted:Those hand leech things were way creepier to me as a kid than just a regular vampire biting people would have been. I thought it essentially made Morbius a non-threat. Whenever the ambulance would find his victims, they would be sure to yell in the camera, "HE'S UNCONCIOUS BUT HE'LL BE FINE IN A FEW HOURS." Did Spidey need to go after a guy who induced naps?
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Aug 3, 2013 16:36
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Well that's just a problem with that cartoon in general, Carnage just "drained peoples energy". As for the non threat thing, Spidey goes after burglars and petty thieves like Spot as well. I didn't really find Morbius threatening, I just find the idea of a hand with a load of lampray eel mouths on it pretty gross and figure they may as well have gone with a regular biting vampire.
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Aug 3, 2013 16:55
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Best moment from the Spider-Man cartoon.
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Aug 3, 2013 17:48
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I'll take that challenge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyZh_xg22Qk
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Aug 3, 2013 17:59
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I think one of the cool things they did in the 90s Cartoon was the Spider-Slayer bots, though. They were just huge rear end spider and scorpion robots who could combine and stuff, and 8-year old me thought it was rad as hell. Also their Clone Saga having the Clones being made of loving Water of all things.
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Aug 3, 2013 18:31
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I do think this is funny. The Badass Thread got derailed by people arguing about really bad comics. So we go and create a bad comics thread to deal with that. And then people spend their time talking about awesome cartoons in the bad comics thread. Okay, to get this thing back on track. There are two kind of bad comics. The Objectively bad ones, and subjectively bad ones. This is one of the later, a comic that made me unbelievably angry when I read it. So a little backstory. Deadpool was a comic that had been running for years, but it needed to be rebooted alongside Cable and X-Force. Rumour has it that due to a lawsuit with Rob Leifield, Marvel cancelled those three titles and rebranded them just on the off chance they lost the lawsuit. (Spoiler Warning: If there was a lawsuit, Marvel won it.) So Deadpool ends and is replaced with Agent X. Basically this scared guy with amnesia calling himself Alex Hayden with a badass healing factor shows up. Is he Deadpool with amnesia, or someone else, it's not clear. But for some reason he really, REALLY wants to be a Merc, so he ends up finding a woman called Sandi. Sandi was a woman that Taskmaster had basically botched a job to save because he was in love with her. In the end Sandi, Taskmaster, Outlaw and Alex decide to form a merc group called Agency X. They have some whacky adventures, but as it goes along there's a group dynamic. Sandi is basically a bit of a crazy, pixie girl but she runs the team. She is a pacifist. Alex is in love with Outlaw, but he keeps screwing things up. Taskmaster is in love with Sandi and super over protective of her. Got that? Good. All goes fine, until Gail Simone left the comic after issue 8 (which if you included her Deadpool issues, is about a 20 or so issue run.) We get two fill in issues by a Comic Message Board moderator, then a two parter by a guy called Evan Dorkin. The issue opens with Alex coming back from killing a cult where he runs into Taskmaster. You know the way Taskmaster is a badass super competent, martial arts/trainer guy? Nope not here. He's just getting drunk, watching wrestling and acting all passive aggressive towards Alex.  So yeah the super protective boyfriend has sent his untrained/ pacifist girlfriend to go kill someone. He then gets into a truley lame fight with Alex which only gets interrupted when Sandi calls base asking for help. Only Taskmaster can't help, since he easily gets his rear end kicked by Alex (which is the first time this has happened in the series), and he decides to stay at home and mope while Alex helps out his girlfriend. Alex goes to meet Sandi expecting to see her in mortal peril. Instead, he finds out she's just crying because this whole killing people thing is hard and she wants his help. Then this happens.   So dear viewer, you might be wondering what happens after two of the main characters just randomly hook up in a completely Out of Character manner and destroy the title's inter personal dynamic. Honestly I'm not sure, as my eyes went green like the Incredible Hulk and I walk up later in the middle of New Mexico. As far as I could remember the rest of the storyline was about Alex trying to kill a Superman pastiche called Fite Man. And his version of Lois Lane really hated him and wanted to get his super powers. I don't know, I just found the whole thing dumb. Now I can accept that I viewed this as one of the worst comic story lines ever, but that's just my opinion. It's also probably because I really just loved Agent X and it's cast of characters. I can accept that SOME people find this a good story. For my next entry though, I'm going to select something that genuinely could not be described by anyone as being a good story.
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Aug 3, 2013 18:49
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Realism posted:Steve Englehart's run of Silver Surfer issues 1-35. Are you saying a comic where a guy gets into a fistfight with motherfucking Galactus isn't metal as hell? This rules.
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Aug 3, 2013 19:28
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Lurdiak posted:I'll take that challenge: I can't find it now, but I remember some incredibly overwrought line from Mary Jane about "I may be a clone, but I love Peter and want to marry him". It was so perfectly soap-opera-ey. The episode has her end up fighting hydroman and they both dissolve, if that helps any
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Aug 3, 2013 21:27
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Despite being Marvel's flagship title, Fantastic Four has a lot of terrible runs. The worst of them, and that's a tight race, has to be Steve Engleharts. Roy Thomas and Marv Wolfman were just bland. JMS, De Falco, and Millar were terrible enough to be put in this thread on their own, but it's Englehart that hits the bottom. His run starts in #304. The series had been drifting a bit since Byrne had left a year earlier to go do his thing on Superman. Englehart was the first regular writer since him. The very first thing he does is introduce the FF's new villain: Quicksilver.  Anyway, step two is at the end of the issue. He does the thing that everyone with a long run on the FF does: change up the team. Of course, Englehart does it in his first issue. It's Reed and Sue's turn to quit this time. Crystal the Inhuman stands in for one of them (and thus gets to keep Quicksilver around as a villain), while the other replacement member is the second Ms. Marvel. She's literally a manhater whose back story is that she got gang raped by supervillains. This being 1987 they couldn't actually say it, but take a look:  She gets to join after Diablo's diabolical plan to appear in the middle of the street in front of the assembled Fantastic Four and kill them nearly works. The plot is foiled when Ms. Marvel walks up behind him and punches him while screaming about hating all men.  That's good enough for Ben so she gets to join the team. Of course, having two super strong, invulnerable characters on the team wouldn't do. So a few issues later while they're fighting their new villain the Evil Television Arab:  And Ms. Marvel is alternating crying about being a helpless woman with angrily denouncing all men, she and Ben get launched into space. After joining the 150 mile high club, they get hit by a radiation storm and the result is that Ms. Marvel is now also rocky and orange. Since that doesn't really help differentiate the characters, Ben Grim becomes spiky like a pineapple.  With the new team set up, Englehart gets into things like revisiting Secret Wars II so that he can retcon in more information about the Beyonder. He also continues the eternal story of his pet character Mantis, the hot female asian martial artist who wore almost nothing as a costume before wearing almost nothing as a costume was cool. Bringing Mantis in to continue the story about how she's so awesome is something Englehart has done in pretty much every series he's written, including ones for other companies. So, jumping ahead to issue 326, a new writer is on board! A Mr. John Harkness. Suddenly the previous story about Mantis being awesome and Kang doing cool stuff and the Fantastic Four hanging around and noticing how awesome they were ends and we get a series of completely disjointed, one issue stories that make absolutely no sense. Of course Harkness is actually Englehart throwing a fit about editorial interference (though editorial should have definitely interfered more). For example, in one of these the PC that Reed was building turns out to be Ultron. Guess he should have gone with Linux. All of these stories are the dreams that the FF are having after being placed in pods by an evil Watcher. He's making them live out all of the storylines that Englehart had been planning for his run, only compressed down to single issues. The storyline ends with the team breaking out and the evil Watcher going, "Well, that was cool to watch. Catch you guys later!" and then teleports them home. Here's the ultimate capper, though. Once they escape and defeat  Fortunately, the next issue starts the Walt Simonson run and so there was a happy ending. Random Stranger fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 21:56
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Let's go back to the wonderful days of the JLA comic book. It was one of the first series I started collecting, because a friend told me about the Tower of Babel story arc, which sounded totally bad rear end (spoiler alert: it is.) I started picking up the old trades, while borrowing new issues from a friend. Morrison, Waid, even the Joe Kelly run...good times. And then...Extinction. Extinction was a three-issue story written by Denny O'Neil and drawn by Tan Eng Huat. It had something to do with aliens and monkeys, or space monkeys, or some poo poo. I don't remember that much specifically, as I think I only ever read those issues once. Here's what you need to know. 1) As far as I know, every issue of JLA is available in TPB format, except these three. (At the very least, it's the only multi-issue story arc that wasn't put into trades.) Which means it's worse than Tenth Circle and Pain of the Gods. 2) One of my great failings as a comic book reader is that most of the time, I only notice artists if they're bad. Nine years later, I can still recall the name "Tan Eng Huat." Also, what the gently caress is going on with these faces. 
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Aug 3, 2013 22:03
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The Question IRL posted:I do think this is funny. Thank you for this, when I read the thread title these issues were the first thing that sprang to mind. Except I couldnt write them up because that would have meant rereading them to remind myself what happened in them and I frankly, gently caress that noise. If I remember right they got Simone back to fix the mess as best she could before cancelling agent X and moving deadpool to Cable/Deadpool
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Aug 3, 2013 22:17
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Random Stranger posted:And Ms. Marvel is alternating crying about being a helpless woman with angrily denouncing all men, she and Ben get launched into space. After joining the 150 mile high club, they get hit by a radiation storm and the result is that Ms. Marvel is now also rocky and orange. Since that doesn't really help differentiate the characters, Ben Grim becomes spiky like a pineapple. Didn't they get rid of her character by having her get depressed about her appearance and commit suicide by throwing herself onto the third rail of the subway? That was one of the first comics I read as a kid, and I had absolutely no idea what was going on or who this character was.
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Aug 3, 2013 22:21
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It has occurred to me that I could do another post just on the Claremont FF run that would just be "Spot the fetish". It combines all the worst aspects of 90's comics with all of Claremont's worst excesses and a guest appearance by real-life NPR reporters who become victims of those excesses.Bobulus posted:Didn't they get rid of her character by having her get depressed about her appearance and commit suicide by throwing herself onto the third rail of the subway? That was one of the first comics I read as a kid, and I had absolutely no idea what was going on or who this character was. She tried to, but it didn't kill her. That was in the terrible De Falco run. You see, Dr. Doom cured her of being a thing during the Simonson run which was a way to write her out of the book and bring back the original team (it also part of the single greatest issue of Fantastic Four ever). But when De Falco took over, Dr. Doom turned her into an even worse thing:  As a coincidence, that was the issue that made me give up on the Fantastic Four for a long time. Technically 375 was where I said, "Screw this," but I forgot to pull my pre-order for that issue. Since then I have gone on to read literally every single issue of FF. Do you want to know about how the counter-earth Johnny got turned into an evil space hockey goalie? I can tell you that. Random Stranger fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 22:24
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The Question IRL posted:a guy called Evan Dorkin. Man, what
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Aug 3, 2013 22:47
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I was about to say, I hope that's sarcastic because who the gently caress doesn't know who Evan Dorkin is, even if you don't like him. everybody hates fight-man
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Aug 3, 2013 22:52
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Thinking about all the comics I read, the Threeboot Legion of Super Heroes leaves a really bad taste in my mouth every time I think about it. The dialogue was terrible, the art was mediocre and kind of generic, and it replaced a much better version. However, my love for the Zeroboot Legion may mean this is just fanboyism. I'm not really sure what the standard opinion is.
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Aug 3, 2013 23:00
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WickedHate posted:Thinking about all the comics I read, the Threeboot Legion of Super Heroes leaves a really bad taste in my mouth every time I think about it. The dialogue was terrible, the art was mediocre and kind of generic, and it replaced a much better version. However, my love for the Zeroboot Legion may mean this is just fanboyism. I'm not really sure what the standard opinion is. That you are wrong. Mark Waid and Barry Kitson are awesome, and they did some great things with the Legion.
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Aug 3, 2013 23:08
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Waid being awesome I can agree on, if hit and miss for me personally, but Kitson's stuff just looks like your average modern comic book art to me. Nothing about it really stands out, but it's not really bad.
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Aug 3, 2013 23:20
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Random Stranger posted:Despite being Marvel's flagship title, Fantastic Four has a lot of terrible runs. It's like the dude just read Animal Man and said "gently caress it". Also I agree, FF has a disproportionately high amount of terrible runs.
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Aug 4, 2013 00:54
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Quantum of Phallus posted:Also I agree, FF has a disproportionately high amount of terrible runs. Who was responsible for this monstrosity of a costume? 
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Aug 4, 2013 03:09
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I can't tell if that's a costume or if she's selectively making parts invisible.
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Aug 4, 2013 03:13
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It was a costume and it was terrible.
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Aug 4, 2013 03:25
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