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Sir Ilpalazzo posted:To be fair, their options were to rush the games they already have in development or delay the system for a while, leaving them with pretty much no home console on the market period. I'm no financial analyst but it seems to me that they picked the best choice out of two terrible ones. They honestly should have delayed because we're going on a year and the system really doesn't have anything out. The last game for the Wii was Pandora's Tower in America. Pandora's Tower probably lasts longer and is a bigger game than most of the Wii-U exclusives. Not only that but PS3 and Xbox 360 are still chugging along and still are having big games and exclusives being pushed out on them. Tales of Xillia is coming out this Tuesday, Project Diva comes in another month, Disgaea D2 is coming, and Saints Row 4 is hitting both systems. The Taint Reaper fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 09:13
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Lizard Wizard posted:Who are the new Nintendo characters people can point to as only being on the Wii? The Wii didn't need that, it had the casual market eating out of its hand. The Wii U needs to appeal to gamers.
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Aug 4, 2013 09:15
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Fulchrum posted:You know, I would have expected a time traveler from the future to bring us new technology, or warn us of a disaster to come. Maybe save someone from dying tragically. Or, if they were more selfish, play the lottery. I'm just jealous of your ability to go back in time and retroactively add a time limit to your requirement that Wii U has a game with exclusive characters.
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Aug 4, 2013 09:23
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The best thing about the WiiU, almost a year in, is still the Nintendoland main plaza music. That's a hell of a catchy tune.
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Aug 4, 2013 09:27
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AngryCaterpillar posted:I'm just jealous of your ability to go back in time and retroactively add a time limit to your requirement that Wii U has a game with exclusive characters. Well they honestly haven't revealed anything, both Sony and Microsoft revealed brand new IPs like Destiny well in advance. Like we're already getting X but that's supposedly late 2014. everything else they showed has been pre-existing Nintendo properties.
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Aug 4, 2013 09:27
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WendigoJohnson posted:They honestly should have delayed because we're going on a year and the system really doesn't have anything out. The last game for the Wii was Pandora's Tower in America. Pandora's Tower probably lasts longer and is a bigger game than most of the Wii-U exclusives. Not only that but PS3 and Xbox 360 are still chugging along and still are having big games and exclusives being pushed out on them. The Wii-U is going to have a few of the big games this year like Watch_Dogs, COD:Ghosts and AC4:Black Flag. Problem is, all of those games have PS4/Xbone editions as well and that's going to overshadow the Wii-U editions. I do agree that it needs a price cut along with all these games to manage some sales this holiday what with it likely to get overshadowed by the new consoles.
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Aug 4, 2013 10:18
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AngryCaterpillar posted:I'm just jealous of your ability to go back in time and retroactively add a time limit to your requirement that Wii U has a game with exclusive characters. I didn't think I had to add the qualifier "now".
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Aug 4, 2013 10:31
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Ineffiable posted:The Wii-U is going to have a few of the big games this year like Watch_Dogs, COD:Ghosts and AC4:Black Flag. Problem is, all of those games have PS4/Xbone editions as well and that's going to overshadow the Wii-U editions. How are they handling the online component to Watch Dogs and COD Ghosts? Those are two games with a lot of integrated online features.
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Aug 4, 2013 10:32
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WendigoJohnson posted:X doesn't count, Monolith made the game Nintendo is just going to publish it. Monolith is second-party, and owned by Nintendo though? That's like saying Jak & Daxter aren't Sony characters, as they were made by Naughty Dog.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:05
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Conclusions posted:Monolith is second-party, and owned by Nintendo though? But that's true, Jak and Daxter aren't Sony Characters, Naughty Dog Created them. Look at Crash bandicoot, created by Naughty Dog and it now belongs to Universal. I've yet to see second party characters featured along other first party Nintendo guys with the sole exception being guest appearances(i.e. Solid Snake in Smash bros.).
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Aug 4, 2013 11:07
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Conclusions posted:Monolith is second-party, and owned by Nintendo though? MonolithSoft is an excellent company that has nothing to do with Nintendo's in-house abilities. Even though Jak and Daxter were in Playstation Allstars whatthefuckever, you're not expecting Shulk and Reyn to appear in Smash Bros. Hopefully. Because those hopes will be dashed.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:14
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:MonolithSoft is an excellent company that has nothing to do with Nintendo's in-house abilities. Even though Jak and Daxter were in Playstation Allstars whatthefuckever, you're not expecting Shulk and Reyn to appear in Smash Bros. Hopefully. Because those hopes will be dashed. Lots of characters were in Playstation All-Stars who wouldn't have been if that game's roster was decided the same way Smash Bros's is. You're right that those characters are probably never going to be in the next Smash Bros. game, but that doesn't mean Monolith Soft doesn't count as a Nintendo studio.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:16
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Nintendo owns MonolithSoft. They're not even second party. They are a first-party Nintendo developer at this point. Game Freak is a second party developer. Monolith Soft is flat-out Nintendo.Pyroxene Stigma posted:MonolithSoft is an excellent company that has nothing to do with Nintendo's in-house abilities. Even though Jak and Daxter were in Playstation Allstars whatthefuckever, you're not expecting Shulk and Reyn to appear in Smash Bros. Hopefully. Because those hopes will be dashed. Again, this is incorrect. Nintendo owns Monolith Software and Monolith Software is one of their first-party development teams. Their Kyoto studio helped with Pikmin 3, Skyward Sword and Animal Crossing. Their Tokyo studio is working on X. WendigoJohnson posted:Really the only new series we've gotten that isn't a Mario spinoff is Pikmin and that was on the Gamecube and just recently Wii-Sports. Metroid Zelda, Donkey Kong, Mario have all been going since the mid 80's, F Zero Showed up on the SNES as did Fire Emblem. This is hilariously incorrect. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 11:20
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WendigoJohnson posted:But that's true, Jak and Daxter aren't Sony Characters, Naughty Dog Created them. Look at Crash bandicoot, created by Naughty Dog and it now belongs to Universal. True, but you'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't identify with them as Sony characters. And I misspoke - Monolithsoft is actually FIRST-party, as they are 100% owned by Nintendo. Prominent second-party characters? GameFreak (Pokemon) is the biggest, with I'd say Professor Layton (Level-5) coming close lately.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:21
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WendigoJohnson posted:I've yet to see second party characters featured along other first party Nintendo guys with the sole exception being guest appearances(i.e. Solid Snake in Smash bros.). First party characters from different franchises don't feature in games together outside SSB either. What are you talking about.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:22
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:MonolithSoft is an excellent company that has nothing to do with Nintendo's in-house abilities. Even though Jak and Daxter were in Playstation Allstars whatthefuckever, you're not expecting Shulk and Reyn to appear in Smash Bros. Hopefully. Because those hopes will be dashed. I don't know the characters as I've never played Xenoblade. However, I hadn't heard of Roy/Marth before SSBM, and Monolithsoft helped with making Brawl. Anything is possible with this game (Hell, we got the drat Wii Fit Trainer. I think it's safe to say all bets are off when it comes to character selection.)
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Aug 4, 2013 11:26
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WendigoJohnson posted:How are they handling the online component to Watch Dogs and COD Ghosts? Those are two games with a lot of integrated online features. At worst, the Watch_Dogs one won't be online. Didn't the last several CODs have online on the Wii/Wii-U? I can't imagine why that would be different for Ghosts.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:27
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They're so first party Nintendo won't publish their games in the US. I'm not saying anyone here is wrong, just that they're looking at the situation in the wrong light.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:28
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WendigoJohnson posted:But that's true, Jak and Daxter aren't Sony Characters, Naughty Dog Created them. Look at Crash bandicoot, created by Naughty Dog and it now belongs to Universal. ImpAtom posted:Nintendo owns MonolithSoft. They're not even second party. They are a first-party Nintendo developer at this point. Game Freak is a second party developer. Monolith Soft is flat-out Nintendo.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:31
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:They're so first party Nintendo won't publish their games in the US. I'm not saying anyone here is wrong, just that they're looking at the situation in the wrong light. Shockingly Nintendo has chosen not to publish quite a few of their games in the US, including spinoffs from bigger-name franchises. (The Tingle games for example.) Going "Well, they don't count as first person because Nintendo of America didn't put them out" doesn't mean they're not actually the literal definition of a Nintendo first party company. Fulchrum posted:Doesn't Namco Bandai retain a portion of the company? The situation is more like Rare, right? Where Nintendo own a majority, but not all of the company. No. Namco-Bandai sold their share to Nintendo a while ago. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 11:32
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ImpAtom posted:
I don't know I really can't think of any of the original console game franchises they've introduced and don't use pre-existing characters other than those. I'm grouping all of the Mario spinoffs together just because they're Mario despite things like Mario kart and paper Mario being two different types of gameplay. Smash brothers is it's own thing but it uses pre-existing Nintendo characters. Handhelds are a different thing entirely so I was just counting stuff on the consoles. I guess if Xenoblade is counts since it's first Party and it's getting a sequel of some sort. The Taint Reaper fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 11:33
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:They're so first party Nintendo won't publish their games in the US. I'm not saying anyone here is wrong, just that they're looking at the situation in the wrong light. That's an odd stipulation. We didn't get Kirby's Mega Collection in Australia - does that mean HAL isn't really a first-party? Or Earthbound vs Creatures Inc in Europe?
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Aug 4, 2013 11:35
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WendigoJohnson posted:I don't know I really can't think of any of the original console game franchises they've introduced and don't use pre-existing characters other than those. I'm grouping all of the Mario spinoffs together just because they're Mario despite things like Mario kart and paper Mario being two different types of gameplay. Smash brothers is it's own thing but it uses pre-existing Nintendo characters. In all of five seconds: Chibi-Robo ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 11:36
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ImpAtom posted:In all of five seconds: Chibi-Robo. We haven't gotten a new game in 6 years. And the second one was released on the DS. They didn't even allow the New Play Control version to be localized for the west.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:39
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WendigoJohnson posted:We haven't gotten a new game in 6 years. And the second one was released on the DS. Endless Ocean then, since you're willing to keep moving the goalposts.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:40
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ImpAtom posted:Endless Ocean then, since you're willing to keep moving the goalposts. Endless ocean 1 and 2 were exclusive to the Wii, but Arika has done stuff for Namco and Capcom. I didn't think they counted as a first party thing. I'd love an Endless Ocean 3 though.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:42
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ImpAtom posted:Endless Ocean then, since you're willing to keep moving the goalposts. No lie, a new Endless Ocean would get me closer to buying a Wii-U.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:42
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WendigoJohnson posted:Endless ocean 1 and 2 were exclusive to the Wii, but Arika has done stuff for Namco and Capcom. I didn't think they counted as a first party thing. At this point you're narrowing the goalposts even further though. Nintendo owns the IP and published the game. If you're arguing "well, it wasn't a first-party developer who made the game" then god damned Pokemon doesn't count as a Nintendo title and that's laughable. Nintendo frequently hires second party developers to work on their in-house projects, including their Mario or Zelda titles. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 11:45
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Lizard Wizard posted:Who are the new Nintendo characters people can point to as only being on the Wii? Anthony Higgins from Metroid Other M.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:46
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ImpAtom posted:At this point you're narrowing the goalposts even further though. Nintendo owns the IP and published the game. If you're arguing "well, it wasn't a first-party developer who made the game" then god damned Pokemon doesn't count as a Nintendo title and that's laughable. Nintendo frequently hires second party developers to work on their in-house projects, including their Mario or Zelda titles. Well my understanding of it was that the original question was first party characters that stand among the established Nintendo characters. Like they introduce new guys to the regular Nintendo Lineup, sort of like how Pikachu, Wario or Waluigi was introduced. Like game franchises made by Shiggy first party Nintendo games that then get merchandised and franchised to here and back embedding themselves into Nintendo lore. Those types of games I thought he was asking about. I'm not moving goalposts I was asking for clarification.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:51
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WendigoJohnson posted:Well my understanding of it was that the original question was first party characters that stand among the established Nintendo characters. Like they introduce new guys to the regular Nintendo Lineup, sort of like how Wario or Waluigi was introduced. Waluigi was introduced in Mario Tennis which was made by Camelot. Camelot is not a first-party developer. Do you get what I mean when I say that narrowing it down that far is silly? I don't mean to jump down your throat, it's just the whole "Nintendo never makes anything new" argument always seems to need a boatload of caveats to justify itself. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 11:54
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ImpAtom posted:Wario was introduced in Mario Tennis which was made by Camelot. Camelot is not a first-party developer. Do you get what I mean when I say that narrowing it down that far is silly? Wait I thought Wario was introduced on the Gameboy? He served as the bad dude for Super Mario Land 2. I would honestly love if the Xenoblade/X guys became Nintendo staples. If they included more anime dudes and giant robots among everything else, that would be fine.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:58
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WendigoJohnson posted:Wait I thought Wario was introduced on the Gameboy? Yeah, I typoed Waluigi. Sorry.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:58
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ImpAtom posted:Waluigi was introduced in Mario Tennis which was made by Camelot. Camelot is not a first-party developer. Do you get what I mean when I say that narrowing it down that far is silly? Camelot has mostly made Mario and Golden Sun games in recent memory, they're pretty firmly in Nintendo's camp. Unlike Monolith, who had a PS2 series before being Nintendo exclusive. It's kind of a fine distinction, sure, but it exists. WendigoJohnson posted:If they included more anime dudes and giant robots among everything else, that would be fine. Can't refute this.
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Aug 4, 2013 11:59
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Camelot has mostly made Mario and Golden Sun games in recent memory, they're pretty firmly in Nintendo's camp. Unlike Monolith, who had a PS2 series before being Nintendo exclusive. It's kind of a fine distinction, sure, but it exists. See, this is what I mean by ridiculous narrowing. "Camelot mostly made Nintendo games so they count, meanwhile the company literally owned by Nintendo doesn't count." Despite the fact that Camelot's best-known franchise (Shining Force) is one Sega is still milking to this day.
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Aug 4, 2013 12:01
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ImpAtom posted:See, this is what I mean by ridiculous narrowing. "Camelot mostly made Nintendo games so they count, meanwhile the company literally owned by Nintendo doesn't count." Despite the fact that Camelot's best-known franchise (Shining Force) is one Sega is still milking to this day. A series shopped around to at least four developers?
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Aug 4, 2013 12:08
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:A series shopped around to at least four developers? I'm honestly unsure of the point you're trying to make here.
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Aug 4, 2013 12:11
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ImpAtom posted:I'm honestly unsure of the point you're trying to make here. People are talking about franchises that created Nintendo Mascot characters.
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Aug 4, 2013 12:14
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WendigoJohnson posted:People are talking about franchises that created Nintendo Mascot characters. Yes, I'm aware of that. I don't understand what exactly the point he is trying to make with that comment was. Look, the Wii U unarguably needs to do things to attract people, and new IPs are potentially a good way to do that, but the "Nintendo never makes anything new, it's just Mario and Mario" argument is extremely hollow unless you attach a boatload of caveats to it to the point where you'd exclude big-name Nintendo franchises like Pokemon or even Mario or Zelda games if you followed through on them. What Nintendo needs to figure out is how to make their system something people will buy. A new original IP might help that, but only if bolstered by the presence of existing IPs. Someone who buys the PS4 is probably going to buy Knack but they're buying the PS4 for Battlefield 4 or Call of Duty or Final Fantasy. Nintendo has some of the strongest IPs on the market and a new IP probably won't do much for the Wii U as far as drawing new customers if Zelda or Mario or whatever isn't already doing it. They either need to put out the software in ridiculous quantities or figure out how to make third party publishers want to invest in their system. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Aug 4, 2013 |
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Aug 4, 2013 12:14
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I probably count as a 'casual gamer', so my opinion is from that point of view: not someone with a lot of understanding about Nintendo's position, just what I see and hear and think as a player. I think Nintendo should pull out of the TV console market altogether and just produce handheld consoles. The DS went absolutely gangbusters and had a very long life, and they still have handheld supremacy with the 3DS over the Vita (although there's little they can do about smartphones unless they start licensing to Apple and Android-- not happening). If they won't invest the money into building a really amazing tech-forward and online-social TV console, there's not really much point in my opinion. The Wii got away with it because it was released during a good time and was appealing to casual gamers in an innovative way, but did those casuals really become core consumers who'll move on to the Wii U? Most people's Wiis are gathering dust. I really want to play Pikmin 3, but it's not worth putting down the money for what the Wii U has now, or what I see it having in the near future. I'll probably hop on the train in 3 or 4 years when the library is bigger and the console is cheaper, but that's not what Nintendo wants or what will keep them afloat. I want to game on the go or around the house, not in front of my TV, and I'm not alone. If Nintendo concentrated on producing fantastic handheld consoles and games, I would be along for the ride. I play my DS nearly every single day and am buying a 3DS as soon as I can afford it. I would love them to develop handheld tech to have really lovely games in a portable form. I can't really say why I believe Nintendo should stop making TV consoles, except that I feel like they're becoming more and more about integrated social and multimedia experiences, and Nintendo is refusing to keep up. If they can't do that, they might as well focus on differentiating in a more significant way than 'we have a motion control' or 'our console is white; theirs are black'. Of course, that would bring them into more direct competition with smartphone and tablet gaming rather than Sony/Microsoft.
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