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greatn posted:Offline co op seems like the one thing that would actually work best on WiiU. Depends. If they don't think its worth the monetary investment why add a feature that will require extra work versus the other consoles due to the asymetric nature of play? I mean, yeah, you could totally do awesome and unique things with it the other consoles can't match but that requires more money for a system that at the current rate will start getting compared to the Nuon as failures go.
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Aug 5, 2013 22:41
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I can't stop laughing.
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Aug 5, 2013 22:42
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Handsome Ralph posted:Then again, I guess that begs the question what the definition of a totally failed system is, and at what point you can safely declare a system a failure? Probably early next year when Ubisoft announces they're dropping support for Wii U due to poor sales.
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Aug 5, 2013 22:43
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Barudak posted:Depends. If they don't think its worth the monetary investment why add a feature that will require extra work versus the other consoles due to the asymetric nature of play? I mean, yeah, you could totally do awesome and unique things with it the other consoles can't match but that requires more money for a system that at the current rate will start getting compared to the Nuon as failures go. Splinter Cell co-op doesn't require any asymmetry, you would just each literally have your own screen. Personally, I think it's wise to drop these features. But I think it's unwise as gently caress that they are probably going to charge the full $60. If they dropped it to $40 on release I guarantee the sales would be solid, at least as far as a console with 3 million units can have solid. If developers said "You know what, we are going to drop features, but also it won't cost as much" I think that would be pretty fair. greatn fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 22:43
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AdmiralViscen posted:They can partner with the publisher and dip into the warchest to pay for feature parity, that's what. Wont do much good if the sales can't back it up. It would be like Re4 all over again.
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Aug 5, 2013 22:45
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I also think Nintendo could have done a better job of having titles lined up for 2013. Their two big holiday titles are (1) an up-sampled expansion pack to a 3DS game, and (2) an HD version of a 10 year old game. ....tada???? That gonna sell anything? I don't think so. I'm sure the attach rate will be pretty high to existing owners. But the system is going to have an absolutely dismal fiscal year from start to finish, and at that point heads would have to start rolling at corporate. Not that I think that's a bad thing, since the direction Nintendo has gone with their Wii U games has been a very dull and lifeless direction compared to their experimentation on the Wii that gave us games like Kirby's Epic Yarn, Mario Strikers Charged, and Endless Ocean. Now they're just retreating to their safe formulas instead of trying new things. We'll do Wii Play again but put Wario in it. We'll do Epic Yarn again but put Yoshi in it. We'll do New Super Mario Bros Wii again but we'll put a bigger world map in it. Even Super Paper Mario is a more interesting and unique title than anything I've seen pitched by Nintendo for Wii U. It at least tried something different, even if it didn't resonate with people. They have to start taking some risks with their software, instead of playing it as safe as possible. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 22:58
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greatn posted:If developers said "You know what, we are going to drop features, but also it won't cost as much" I think that would be pretty fair.
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Aug 5, 2013 23:04
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I think one of the high ups decided to cut online play but somewhere along the memo line the word online became offline and the programming grunts just ran with it.
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Aug 5, 2013 23:11
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OatmealRaisin posted:I think one of the high ups decided to cut online play but somewhere along the memo line the word online became offline and the programming grunts just ran with it. Or it could be that doing offline multiplayer while taking into account any demands of the gamepad might lead to an unstable framerate/game, so rather than trying to work around it or find a way to fix it, they just said "gently caress it, 'no one' is gonna buy it on Wii U anyway." Quest For Glory II posted:They have to start taking some risks with their software, instead of playing it as safe as possible. I'm not sure the problem is that they aren't "taking risks". Just producing software of any kind for a console is a pretty large risk by itself. It costs millions just to get a game made, not to mention how much more money goes into marketing one. The Wii U itself is an enormous risk, one that doesn't look like a good decision to have made so far. I think they believed that the software will follow the hardware in terms of creativity. The thing is, everyone is playing it safe with their software, not just Nintendo, because for the most part it works. Simply being different for the sake of being different isn't something that works for just any game or IP, and even Nintendo has been stumbling with that as of late. LAST EDIT: Miyamoto has said he doesn't know what to do with F-Zero. Fuckssake, Mr Mario, it's a racing game where the whole point is literally "to go ludicrously fast and win." It does not need to be more or less than this. If we got a new F-Zero in the same line of GX/AX, with all new tracks, and the ability to unlock classic cups from both X and GX, I would buy this poo poo so fast it would make heads spin. It doesn't need 'something extra' added to the gameplay. It doesn't need extra gamepad features. It doesn't need random tripping that causes by cars to just fly off the track for no discernible reason (I do that plenty on my own thanks). It just needs to be a damned fun racing game. Hell, make another seventy cars and turn this poo poo into space NASCAR/F1, make the races last longer if you must, but the core gameplay is fine and does not need any real additions. And yet they're sitting on the IP because they can't think of anything to do. I'm starting to wonder exactly what is going on at a creative level in Nintendo. At some point, you have to stop taking unique 'risks' and just get some good games out there that people want to play. fivegears4reverse fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 23:25
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MARKET THE GAMES Infact, market the loving console. I want to see stuff like this on the TV to actually show the console: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e3qaPg_keg While you're at it Nintendo put out the E3 game trailers or something, anything! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e3qaPg_keg
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Aug 6, 2013 00:01
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Well all of that "We don't know what else to do with F-zero" stuff is PR speak for "The games don't sell and aren't worth the effort." F-zero GX was one of the best games of the cube/ps2/box generation but only sold a handful of copies. I would pay full price for just an up-rezzed version with online play but I don't see it happening.
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Aug 6, 2013 00:12
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Wait, the PS2 was 300$ when it was released? 
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Aug 6, 2013 00:30
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Call Now posted:Wait, the PS2 was 300$ when it was released? NES launched at $250. In 1980s dollars. And games were around $30 up to $50 for big releases. Also in 1980s dollars. Consoles are expensive, son.
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Aug 6, 2013 00:33
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Games were more expensive, then, too. I remember paying $80 for Kirby 64.
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Aug 6, 2013 00:34
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Schubalts posted:Games were more expensive, then, too. I remember paying $80 for Kirby 64. Yeah big N64 releases were nuts because of the whole cartridge thing. Big SNES releases routinely hit $60, which is over $100 in today dollars. Honestly this is why I was all  when raising prices to $60 was such a huge scandal this gen. Flat $50 games across the board in the PS2/GCN/Xbox generation was an anomaly.
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Aug 6, 2013 00:38
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I believe I paid $55 USED for Banjo-Kazooie
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Aug 6, 2013 00:42
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OatmealRaisin posted:Yeah big N64 releases were nuts because of the whole cartridge thing. Big SNES releases routinely hit $60, which is over $100 in today dollars.
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Aug 6, 2013 00:47
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I remember buying Phantasy Star 4 for... what $100? Worth every penny.
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Aug 6, 2013 00:50
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Midee posted:Towards the end a lot of the 24 and 32 megabit games were upwards of $70, especially the Squaresoft games. The original Phantasy Star was $70+ in the USA when it was released in 1988. It still pales in comparison to Time Zone, which was released for the Apple II in 1981 for $99. ^^^ Oh yeah, I remember seeing Phantasy Star 4 at Toys R Us for over $100.
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Aug 6, 2013 00:54
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ImpAtom posted:I remember buying Phantasy Star 4 for... what $100? Yeah, I was about to post I remember my dad paying $80 for Phantasy Star 2 in 1989 or 1990, which included a whopping 6 MEGA MEMORY.
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Aug 6, 2013 00:54
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What if this lackluster sales of the WiiU is more of an indication that the home console industry as a whole is in a dire situation given the economic conditions. Or consoles and the economics supporting them just isn't a workable model anymore.
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Aug 6, 2013 01:09
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Joink posted:What if this lackluster sales of the WiiU is more of an indication that the home console industry as a whole is in a dire situation given the economic conditions. Or consoles and the economics supporting them just isn't a workable model anymore. This is ironically why I picked up a Wii U, because it's the only thing still offering a unique experience or anything resembling what I came to consoles for in the first place. I would never dream of selecting it as my only gaming device though. It's been that way with every Nintendo consoles after the SNES. I didn't buy this thing to play something I could play on my PC, I bought it to play Mario and Zelda. Nintendo being set in their ways and frustratingly behind the times used to seem like a curse, but now it's more of a blessing than anything, the way the industry is progressing. MarioTeachesWiping fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Aug 6, 2013 |
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Aug 6, 2013 01:12
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Joink posted:What if this lackluster sales of the WiiU is more of an indication that the home console industry as a whole is in a dire situation given the economic conditions. Or consoles and the economics supporting them just isn't a workable model anymore. If this is true then we'll see it with the PS4 and One. It's not impossible but the pre-order numbers don't seem to back it up. If the PS4 and One end up doing remotely Wii U numbers then the industry is seriously hosed for the foreseeable future but that is fairly unlikely.
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Aug 6, 2013 01:19
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fivegears4reverse posted:
This is the point where I felt like Miyamoto either needs to retire or take a different role within the company, I can understand not wanting to do anything with F-zero right now, but flat out saying, I have no ideas for it is insane.
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Aug 6, 2013 01:29
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Quest For Glory II posted:I also think Nintendo could have done a better job of having titles lined up for 2013. Their two big holiday titles are (1) an up-sampled expansion pack to a 3DS game, and (2) an HD version of a 10 year old game. ....tada???? That gonna sell anything? I don't think so. I'm sure the attach rate will be pretty high to existing owners. But the system is going to have an absolutely dismal fiscal year from start to finish, and at that point heads would have to start rolling at corporate. For a comparison Windwaker is being released at the normal Wii-U game price with no other games or real extras. Where as Kingdom hearts HD is being released at 40 bucks, comes with two games, has the added content from the original and a bunch of added cut scenes from the 358/2 Days game and ontop of all of that it has an art book. These games are both from the same era and are around the same size too. It's like I don't get why they couldn't just attach the NES, Gameboy, and SNES Zeldas onto the disc as well. Windwaker doesn't require the full amount of room on the Wii-U discs they could have certainly tacked way more stuff on to a full price game to at least make it worth it. Do another Zelda Anthology like Kirby's and give people loads of extras and the entire series or something. Windwaker HD would have been a fine headliner to a collection like that instead of it just being the entire content itself. The Taint Reaper fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Aug 6, 2013 |
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Aug 6, 2013 01:30
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Joink posted:What if this lackluster sales of the WiiU is more of an indication that the home console industry as a whole is in a dire situation given the economic conditions. Or consoles and the economics supporting them just isn't a workable model anymore. I doubt it. There are many things that you can point out and say, "Nintendo is loving this up." If there were a steady stream of masterful games coming out for the WiiU and not selling at all, it would be an indication something's amiss. As is, though, the simplest explanation is that there's very few reasons to buy a WiiU right now.
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Aug 6, 2013 01:31
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WendigoJohnson posted:For a comparison Windwaker is being released at the normal Wii-U game price with no other games or real extras. Where as Kingdom hearts HD is being released at 40 bucks, comes with two games, has the added content from the original and a bunch of added cut scenes from the 358/2 Days game and ontop of all of that it has an art book. These games are both from the same era and are around the same size too. I honestly cannot recall a single other HD remake that offered so little value for money. Closest is Halo Combat Evolved HD, where it was just the one game. But at least that was only $40.
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Aug 6, 2013 01:40
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greatn posted:If developers said "You know what, we are going to drop features, but also it won't cost as much" I think that would be pretty fair.
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Aug 6, 2013 02:05
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Joink posted:What if this lackluster sales of the WiiU is more of an indication that the home console industry as a whole is in a dire situation given the economic conditions. Or consoles and the economics supporting them just isn't a workable model anymore. People are still buying PS3s and 360s in the hundreds of thousands per month, though. Nintendo not knowing what customers want isn't proof that there aren't any customers. Given the trajectory of consumer electronics over the past few years, there is some argument to be made that the upcoming generation may be the last generation for console hardware as it exists today, but core gamers as a whole aren't going to decide they only want to play stuff like Candy Crush Saga from now on.
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Aug 6, 2013 02:30
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I wonder how much of an issue it is to now have to account for a Wii U port after so many years of just 360, PS3, and sometimes maybe PC.
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Aug 6, 2013 02:43
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fivegears4reverse posted:LAST EDIT: Miyamoto has said he doesn't know what to do with F-Zero. Fuckssake, Mr Mario, it's a racing game where the whole point is literally "to go ludicrously fast and win." It does not need to be more or less than this. If we got a new F-Zero in the same line of GX/AX, with all new tracks, and the ability to unlock classic cups from both X and GX, I would buy this poo poo so fast it would make heads spin. It doesn't need 'something extra' added to the gameplay. It doesn't need extra gamepad features. It doesn't need random tripping that causes by cars to just fly off the track for no discernible reason (I do that plenty on my own thanks). It just needs to be a damned fun racing game. Hell, make another seventy cars and turn this poo poo into space NASCAR/F1, make the races last longer if you must, but the core gameplay is fine and does not need any real additions. I always thought that an F-Zero game with the motion controls of ExciteTrucks/ExciteBots with leveling your car out for max speed/distance on jumps could really work... F-Zero doesn't really have any memorable tracks like Mario Kart does. They could probably rerelease the same tracks from GX and I wouldn't know any better.
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Aug 6, 2013 03:09
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WendigoJohnson posted:For a comparison Windwaker is being released at the normal Wii-U game price with no other games or real extras. Where as Kingdom hearts HD is being released at 40 bucks, comes with two games, has the added content from the original and a bunch of added cut scenes from the 358/2 Days game and ontop of all of that it has an art book. These games are both from the same era and are around the same size too. Have they announced a Wind Waker price yet?
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Aug 6, 2013 04:11
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So the Wii U is not only getting inferior ports of next-gen titles (assuming it lives that long), but also stripped down and interior ports of current gen titles too? Yeesh. Can I assume that once said titles understandably sell like poo poo, that will be all the justification their producers need to abandon the system entirely?
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Aug 6, 2013 04:14
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WendigoJohnson posted:It's like I don't get why they couldn't just attach the NES, Gameboy, and SNES Zeldas onto the disc as well. Windwaker doesn't require the full amount of room on the Wii-U discs they could have certainly tacked way more stuff on to a full price game to at least make it worth it. Do another Zelda Anthology like Kirby's and give people loads of extras and the entire series or something. Windwaker HD would have been a fine headliner to a collection like that instead of it just being the entire content itself. When Windwaker itself came out, they released a disc for Gamecube that had Zelda I, Zelda II, Ocarina of Time, and Majora's Mask on it. Why not bundle that (and throw Link to the Past in while you're at it) with Windwaker now? They already have the package! If they're worried about cannibalizing sales for Ocarina of Time 3D and a possible Majora's Mask 3D, how about making the package Zelda I, Zelda II, Link to the Past, Link's Awakening DX, and the Oracle games? That way, Windwaker HD edition becomes a Trojan Horse for bringing the Zelda franchise into a new generation's living room while not compromising the sales of the 3DS remake of OOT and the likely 3DS remake of MM? Patter Song fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Aug 6, 2013 |
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Aug 6, 2013 04:19
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Patter Song posted:When Windwaker itself came out, they released a disc for Gamecube that had Zelda I, Zelda II, Ocarina of Time, and Majora's Mask on it. Why not bundle that (and throw Link to the Past in while you're at it) with Windwaker now? They already have the package! You had to submit codes from other Gamecube games to get that disc. I went through the trouble of doing it, got it, and eventually a year ir so later let my cousin borrow it and never saw it again 
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Aug 6, 2013 04:21
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greatn posted:Have they announced a Wind Waker price yet? Yeah, 60 bucks. Not really interested in getting it at that price.
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Aug 6, 2013 04:24
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AlmightyBob posted:You had to submit codes from other Gamecube games to get that disc. I went through the trouble of doing it, got it, and eventually a year ir so later let my cousin borrow it and never saw it again I got that disc for free when I pre-ordered the game, no codes required.
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Aug 6, 2013 04:25
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Almost Smart posted:So the Wii U is not only getting inferior ports of next-gen titles (assuming it lives that long), but also stripped down and interior ports of current gen titles too? Yeesh. Can I assume that once said titles understandably sell like poo poo, that will be all the justification their producers need to abandon the system entirely? I doubt they actively are planning it that way (After all, there's absolutely no danger in a publisher just publicly badmouthing a console, then coming back when it looks better. Just look at Valve and the Ps3). I think this is just a natural death. A console does little to get interest from gamers. Gamers don't buy games in the same quantities as on other consoles. Developers see the numbers, decide to scale back their effort so they're only putting as much into the port as they'll get back. Gamers buy the games in even less quantity as they're clearly inferior, dev just abandons the console altogether as they're not even recouping costs. I mean, whats the alternative? Developers need to make a struggling consoles versions of the game special just, what, out of the goodness of their hearts? greatn posted:Have they announced a Wind Waker price yet?
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Aug 6, 2013 04:26
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The_Franz posted:I got that disc for free when I pre-ordered the game, no codes required. No you didn't, the preorder disc didn't have Zelda 1, 2, or Majora's Mask.
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Aug 6, 2013 04:29
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The preorder disc was Ocarina of Time and Master Quest. It was a later promotion that had Zelda 1, 2, Ocarina, and Majora
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Aug 6, 2013 04:31
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