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TinTower posted:I know Quill's playing style has been a subject of discussion, and I think the Pomerania succession game is pretty entertaining. Starts with shenryyr2 and arumba07 doing their min-max expansionism, followed by Quill's more seat-of-the-pants style that ends up with him going elective, and then Kailvin just staring at the map in his first video, going "what the gently caress?", and purging the entire nobility and keeping a firm hand on a theocratic electoral empire. I enjoy watching quill play games I'm not very familiar with, but his contribution to this CK2 game was horrible to watch. They all make mistakes, but at least the other 3 are doing their mistakes mostly because they're playing quickly, quill looks around and ponders and looks around some more and thinks some more and then does a stupid thing. Quill takes half an hour to do what Arumba does in 1-2 minutes, I skipped the rest of his videos half-way into the second video because it made me irrationally angry. Watching Kailvin deal with the steaming pile of vassal poo poo the others left him is fantastic though so it was totally worth it.
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Aug 5, 2013 20:01
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cheesetriangles posted:Decided to get a Roman Empire CK2 game ready to convert and ended up taking over almost every county on the map and have over a million levy's. There is still around 200 years of game left. I don't think that will be very fun to play in EU4. Will probably convert it anyway just to see what it is like. Wonder if Byzantium DLC will work for Rome too. What you need to do is convert it and then play as any other country. Japan vs. Ultra-Rome.
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Aug 5, 2013 20:03
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cheesetriangles posted:Decided to get a Roman Empire CK2 game ready to convert and ended up taking over almost every county on the map and have over a million levy's. There is still around 200 years of game left. I don't think that will be very fun to play in EU4. Will probably convert it anyway just to see what it is like. Wonder if Byzantium DLC will work for Rome too. Yeah, that is one thing that makes me a bit uneasy about the save converter. By the time you hit the mid-1400's, you could very well have the sort of unbeatable empire that you can get mid-game in past EU games that make you just give up and say "alright, I've won already. Not much point pushing this further." Case in point is one of my EU3 games where I played as the Ottomans:
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Aug 5, 2013 20:03
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Yureina posted:Yeah, that is one thing that makes me a bit uneasy about the save converter. By the time you hit the mid-1400's, you could very well have the sort of unbeatable empire that you can get mid-game in past EU games that make you just give up and say "alright, I've won already. Not much point pushing this further." Case in point is one of my EU3 games where I played as the Ottomans: Why would you convert a game that would obviously be no fun? Spend the last decade of CK2 passing out all your kingdoms to your brothers.
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Aug 5, 2013 20:12
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Yureina posted:Yeah, that is one thing that makes me a bit uneasy about the save converter. By the time you hit the mid-1400's, you could very well have the sort of unbeatable empire that you can get mid-game in past EU games that make you just give up and say "alright, I've won already. Not much point pushing this further." Case in point is one of my EU3 games where I played as the Ottomans: The entire point is to tear down the monster kingdom you've made. You're just swatting flies. To make it interesting you play as Spain or France in that scenario.
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Aug 5, 2013 20:17
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I think I like the idea of converting it and then playing as someone else.  I kinda gave up on conquering people after bitch slapping the Mongols with just my retinue. Will be fun to see if I can beat them as some Asian power. East Vs. West.
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Aug 5, 2013 20:20
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All in all, CK2 is really easy game and I found it to be a lot more fun if you 'roleplay' a little and only do stuff that suits your ruler while trying to ignore your own knowledge of future events and the game mechanics. Otherwise it is ridiculously easy to be basically unbeatable after the first 200 years. And even than you can easily end up as the strongest power. In my Saxony game, I left the HRE and formed the titular Kingdom of Saxony and conquered nothing but the Northern German provinces and I still ended up with the second largest army after the Mongols. e X fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 20:22
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It really is the easiest Paradox game. Probably one it is the most popular one. EU3 was more my thing but I haven't been able to play it for a long time since they announced EU4. I just want to move into the future with all the improvements it brings.
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Aug 5, 2013 20:24
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cheesetriangles posted:Decided to get a Roman Empire CK2 game ready to convert and ended up taking over almost every county on the map and have over a million levy's. There is still around 200 years of game left. I don't think that will be very fun to play in EU4. Will probably convert it anyway just to see what it is like. Wonder if Byzantium DLC will work for Rome too. Play a Asian country in EU4 and try to stop the behemoth made by your hand. Oh, i see you already think about doing that, it will be glorious to see my Irish Britain duke it out with my Japan over who rules the New World.  Please give me this loving game. BillBear fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 20:42
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BillBear posted:Play a Asian country in EU4 and try to stop the behemoth made by your hand. Even though that can be kinda fun, it's also very trivial, since the AI usually collapses Well Enough on its own.
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Aug 5, 2013 20:43
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Beamed posted:Even though that can be kinda fun, it's also very trivial, since the AI usually collapses Well Enough on its own. This is why you should make most of Europe client states while the AI still rules over a decent sized part of Europe. Like what would of happened if WW2 was won the the Germans, no way they can hold it all on their own so why not have some puppets/family rule it for you.
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Aug 5, 2013 20:47
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cheesetriangles posted:Decided to get a Roman Empire CK2 game ready to convert and ended up taking over almost every county on the map and have over a million levy's. There is still around 200 years of game left. I don't think that will be very fun to play in EU4. Will probably convert it anyway just to see what it is like. Wonder if Byzantium DLC will work for Rome too.
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Aug 5, 2013 20:56
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Still reading through the EU4 vs EU3 booklet.quote:Supply Limits & Attrition Boooooo quote:Manpower Yaaaaaay quote:Religious Unity I... had no idea this mechanic existed. That's old-school paradox for you, all right.
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Aug 5, 2013 21:33
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PleasingFungus posted:I... had no idea this mechanic existed. It was kind-of hidden, alright: Basically, all it controlled was that Religious Civil War event that happened around the Reformation. Annnd.. I'm pretty sure that's all.
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Aug 5, 2013 21:39
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The drastically reduced manpower was actually finally implemented (about 4 years too late) in EU3 with the final patches. It made things a lot more realistic, albeit much more difficult as a small state.
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Aug 5, 2013 21:41
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BillBear posted:This is why you should make most of Europe client states while the AI still rules over a decent sized part of Europe. Like what would of happened if WW2 was won the the Germans, no way they can hold it all on their own so why not have some puppets/family rule it for you.
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Aug 5, 2013 21:42
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cheesetriangles posted:Decided to get a Roman Empire CK2 game ready to convert and ended up taking over almost every county on the map and have over a million levy's. There is still around 200 years of game left. I don't think that will be very fun to play in EU4. Will probably convert it anyway just to see what it is like. Wonder if Byzantium DLC will work for Rome too. Indeed, definitely convert and play as someone else. Someone in India or the Far East would be fun, or even a New Worlder, and you can try and Sunset Invasion your old empire, although that last would will likely require a lot of effort. The EU3 Iroquois e: Well, that was easy. Searching "EU3 Iroquois AAR" brought it up as the very first result. I give you The Audacity of Hope. e2: Seems all the images are on photobucket and not available. How lovely. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 21:47
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Important Question: Will my obscure Balkan duchy be given the ample bonuses and unique features it deserves to accurately reflect how important they were in world history? If not no sale. 
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Aug 5, 2013 22:38
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Fintilgin posted:When EUIII was new there was an EUII crew who felt like that. Although, in fairness, EUIII has come a long, long way, and some of the release complaints were pretty fair. If I remember correctly EU2 was very strict about historic events in that country X got event Y every game on date Z no matter what. I think original EUIII had no historic events at all and no missions. I like where it ended up, the missions guide countries towards history, but there is still enough randomness to keep things interesting.
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Aug 5, 2013 22:43
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Ofaloaf posted:I'd love to see someone mod a Germans-win-WWII mod where the first thing that happens is that all the Reichskommissariats become petty warlordships that barely acknowledge Berlin and anti-German partisans keep popping up goddamned everywhere, rather than just having a Big Grey Blob and leaving it to the US and maybe Britain to fight in some rather bland WWIII scenario. Oh my lord, that's goddamn brilliant. I'd love to play a scenario like that. Take things back to the Holy Roman Empire, cept with even weaker central control. Then all of the individual pieces start aligning with other ideological blocs. That could be seriously fun.
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Aug 5, 2013 22:44
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Sadly I dont think HOI2 really has the capability to give a scenario like that what it deserves, and the politics system from HOI3 would gently caress it up even more probably. Maybe HOI4 will have an updated but actualy good political system and it would be possible, we can dream at least.
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Aug 5, 2013 23:03
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I was thinking it would be nice to see implemented in East vs West. It sounds like it could be loads of fun to play out though, since there are so many possible outcomes from a starting scenario like that.
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Aug 5, 2013 23:10
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cheesetriangles posted:It really is the easiest Paradox game. Probably one it is the most popular one. EU3 was more my thing but I haven't been able to play it for a long time since they announced EU4. I just want to move into the future with all the improvements it brings. Agreed. Besides I sunk over 500 hours into EU3. I don't think I can stomach doing another playthrough of that. 
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Aug 5, 2013 23:13
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BodineWilson posted:I was thinking it would be nice to see implemented in East vs West. It sounds like it could be loads of fun to play out though, since there are so many possible outcomes from a starting scenario like that. Nothing will be nice to see implemented in East vs West. I give that game 2 interesting features that are implemented well at the most, and I'm being very generous.
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Aug 6, 2013 00:23
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Orange Devil posted:Nothing will be nice to see implemented in East vs West. I give that game 2 interesting features that are implemented well at the most, and I'm being very generous. That's unfair. The combat system, while not what Anyone Here wanted, looks like it was pretty well developed.
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Aug 6, 2013 00:24
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eggsovereasy posted:If I remember correctly EU2 was very strict about historic events in that country X got event Y every game on date Z no matter what. I think original EUIII had no historic events at all and no missions. I like where it ended up, the missions guide countries towards history, but there is still enough randomness to keep things interesting. There used to be a ton of people that preferred the old EU/HOI event progression-style of game. Those games would always break if you went too far off the rails though. If Germany failed an event check for the Danzig event it would just sit there forever, and the USSR would take it's historical share of Europe when the peace event fired even if they hadn't pushed Germany out of their country yet. I used to switch to the USA and USSR in my HOI2 games after Germany fell to give them nukes and nuclear plants to make it interesting because the AI would never build them. The CK2 AI is the most adaptable they've made so far, and I think it makes every game more enjoyable, even if getting everythimg to turn out like history isn't possible.
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Aug 6, 2013 00:29
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I can't speak for anyone else, but I love the way the games go ahistorical after a while. If I wanted history, I would (and do) read a book. I want to see how much I can break history, thank you very much.
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Aug 6, 2013 00:35
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eggsovereasy posted:If I remember correctly EU2 was very strict about historic events in that country X got event Y every game on date Z no matter what. I think original EUIII had no historic events at all and no missions. I like where it ended up, the missions guide countries towards history, but there is still enough randomness to keep things interesting. EU2 was railroaded. They didn't have MTTH until Victoria I think?
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Aug 6, 2013 00:55
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Many of the old Paradox games barely even had AI, just a lot of scripting telling them which event options to take and then some military AI that takes over once the game declares war for them as part of an event. When I was watching the Idle Thumbs' CK2 streams (which are pretty great, they're totally clueless about the game and just roll with it) one of the AI characters actually assassinated someone out of spite. It made me realize how far their AI and general gameplay as come. The game reacted to an absurd situation in an almost perfect manner. (the situation in question) I'm glad they shifted to a more organic system where the AI has full agency of their actions and acts on their own motives. There were some speed bumps with EU3 where it was pretty much pure chaotic sandbox at first with no guidelines or anything. The really basic CB system (either you had one or didn't, no specific types for specific goals), the lack of missions, and the lack of decisions made for a really chaotic environment that only resembled history barely more than a Civilization game. I think they've found a really great compromise in the expansions and seemingly EU4 as well.Luigi Thirty posted:EU2 was railroaded. They didn't have MTTH until Victoria I think? Victoria had hard dates for the events (with some random elements, some events could randomly fire beyond a set date), CK1 was the game that introduced MTTH I believe, with EU3 being the next game to use it. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Aug 6, 2013 |
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Aug 6, 2013 01:03
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:I can't speak for anyone else, but I love the way the games go ahistorical after a while. I like alt history but I like to at least make sense in the context of events that happened prior to the point of divergence.
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Aug 6, 2013 01:05
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I'm getting started in Victoria 2, transitioning from having played a lot of EU3, and hating the zoom-to-cursor default. Is anyone aware of a way to change it to the more familiar zoom-to-center?
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Aug 6, 2013 01:14
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Luigi Thirty posted:EU2 was railroaded. They didn't have MTTH until Victoria I think? MTTH was Crusader Kings, Victoria had the same system as EU2 essentially. EU2 was definitely railroaded, but that was a part of the game's philosophy and it led the modding community for the game in a fun direction, which was essentially a railway network. You might only have a limited number of railway lines to follow, but at the start of the game you were in your country's central station and could go a lot of places and see some interesting sights on the way. With the major mod of that game, the AGCEEP, many countries got an event every couple of years dealing with an event in the country's history, or the alt-history outcomes of previous events. Nowadays that sort of stuff is generally handled dynamically by the existing systems, which is better on most levels, but I confess I rather miss the events of EU2 in a certain way--EU3 can represent the Hussite wars as a religious war that you either win or lose and maybe put Jan Hus in Bohemia as a theologian at the ruler's court, (modded) EU2 represented it as a war with something like 40 events each with a three or four paragraph history lesson about (for example) the difference between the Utraquist and Taborite factions within the Hussites and why they were on the verge of coming to blows. So while you could pick up as Bohemia and EU3 and just play a game, EU2 came with a free history lesson on the nation you were playing as while you played, with some choose-your-own-adventure elements mixed in. The Events of EU2 gave each nation character, a uniqueness you literally would never get playing another nation, and EU3 lost that hard to begin with. Now I don't want to oversell my point, I'd never go back to EU2 and I think EU4 is hitting a happy balance, but EU3 really was terrible at release compared to modded EU2--every nation was functionally identical except for shape and colour and they had nothing interesting about them, there was no decision system so everything had to be done by events, but the events were imprecise by design to make creation of those long and extraordinarily complex chains of events we'd had from EU2 impossible, and it all was a giant mass of boring. Napoleon's aambition helped, but EU3 wasn't really a better game than EU2 (for all its faults) until In Nomine came out.
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Aug 6, 2013 01:32
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:I can't speak for anyone else, but I love the way the games go ahistorical after a while. Additionally, it's also fun to try to break history in very specific ways or in specific regions, and then throw those divergent parts against the ones that haven't. For example (spitballing a scenario), perhaps I want to play a game where China westernizes by the late 1700s, dominates the Far East and winds up having to compete with the French and British colonial forces for India. Were this EU3, that would never happen because GB and France would probably have not so much as touched India. The status in Europe would have fallen off the rails far before then and the 300 years of gameplay creating this hypothetical fantasy would have been for naught. So, basically, it would be nice to keep some parts of the world on rails, at least until the player discovers them.
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Aug 6, 2013 02:08
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BodineWilson posted:I'm not familiar with the Drama behind this. Why did the reasonable people criticize it?  etc.It was also a pretty weak DLC in general since it basically consisted of an invasion (which is very easy to mod in) a set of portraits and a bunch of flavor events which is pretty drat sparse for a 5 dollar DLC. DivineCoffeeBinge posted:I can't speak for anyone else, but I love the way the games go ahistorical after a while. Ideally so would the games go ahistorical in the second way and not in a 'welp, Great Britain conquers Norway every game and the Bohemian/Austrian snake stops somewhere between the Urals and the Yellow Sea'-way. And it should at least be *possible* for the world at the end of the game to look somewhat reminiscent of how it looked in real life at that point in time.
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Aug 6, 2013 02:50
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Well, now that we have the east and west invasions, the only things left are the north and south invasions. South is easy: the hordes of Great Zimbabwe or something. North, though, will have to be the dreaded Father Christmas, a theocratic ruler whose dreaded elf infantry and reindeer cavalry wreak havoc throughout the Northlands.
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Aug 6, 2013 03:05
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Patter Song posted:Well, now that we have the east and west invasions, the only things left are the north and south invasions. South is easy: the hordes of Great Zimbabwe or something. North, though, will have to be the dreaded Father Christmas, a theocratic ruler whose dreaded elf infantry and reindeer cavalry wreak havoc throughout the Northlands. This reminds me of my favorite line from any LP, even though it was made sarcastically: Knud Knytling posted:And that's when the Zulu came over the hill on Hang-gliders.
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Aug 6, 2013 03:08
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Less Father Christmas and more Elder Things.
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Aug 6, 2013 03:09
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Flython posted:Less Father Christmas and more Elder Things. The Invader Comes From the Bottom of The Sea!
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Aug 6, 2013 03:13
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Flython posted:Less Father Christmas and more Elder Things. Come on? You don't see the potential? quote:The fat man claims to be St. Nicholas, the 4th century bishop of Myre in Lycia. That can't be right, though, Nicholas died...or did he? The fat man has no time for the questions, his campaign to bring joy to every child on Earth unfortunately sees your domains as an obstacle to their happiness. We must brace ourselves. quote:Claiming universal protection over the children of Christendom, this self-styled Father Christmas has claimed political dominion over every land containing Christian children, obviously including our own. We may submit to vassaldom to him, but he has been known to give away the titles of his vassals to particularly needy children come Christmas Day. Do we take the risk? quote:The industriousness of the elves is fascinating and horrifying. Slowly, every blacksmith, tanner, carpenter, stonemason, and other craftsman in our capital town has found himself outbid by efficient and low-paid elvish competition. We could put restrictions on elvish labor in our capital, but to do so would anger our jolly fat overlord.
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Aug 6, 2013 03:19
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Kainser posted:I personally disliked it because it's really low effort, nonsensical alternate history. 'Aztecs invade Europe in 1200' makes no sense if you think about it for more than 10 seconds. Which would have been fine if it was marketed as a Fantasy DLC, but it wasn't. "For the first time ever, Paradox Development Studio is introducing a fantasy scenario in their strategy games with the Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion DLC for the critically praised strategy/RPG Crusader Kings II. It is a fantasy scenario where the blood drenched Aztec Civilization arose early and spread like a virulent plague, learning of Europe from exploring Northmen. Prepare to defend all you hold dear against the Sunset Invasion!" "Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion is the third DLC expansion for the critically praised strategy/RPG Crusader Kings II. This fantasy scenario marks Paradox Development Studios first departure from history."
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Aug 6, 2013 03:21
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