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colonel_korn posted:The Forever War by Joe Haldeman and Steel Beach by John Varley might be up your alley. eh, I don't know about The Forever War, it very much plays up "homosexuality is a choice! They do it out of lack of anything else!" For 1974 it was a big step forward, but overall not that great.
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Aug 6, 2013 18:20
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Cardiac posted:I've been enjoying Paul McAuley and his Quiet War series as well as his other books. I read the first of these, and besides a couple of slow parts with a ton of description, it was very good. Are the sequels just as good as the first one?
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Aug 6, 2013 18:30
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I can't remember if I read about it here or in BSS, but does anyone remember a recommendation for a book written by a western author that took Chinese mythology seriously and respectfully? I forget everything else about it!
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Aug 6, 2013 19:16
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VanSandman posted:I can't remember if I read about it here or in BSS, but does anyone remember a recommendation for a book written by a western author that took Chinese mythology seriously and respectfully? I forget everything else about it! Bridge of Birds? It's pretty comical, but a lot of the old Chinese myths have that sense of irony and humor as well.
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Aug 6, 2013 19:18
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Yes! Thank you!
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Aug 6, 2013 20:28
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SUPERFINE CONCUBINE posted:Hey guys, I love me some good hard SF (Alastair Reynolds is a particular go-to of mine). Lately I've been thinking that I'd really like to read some SF that is a bit more various in its depictions of relationships, because I just can't see a future populated entirely by heterosexual people and couples. I'm really not interested in gay/poly/interspecies/whatever relationships being the main focus, but was wondering whether there were any good stories you'd recommend where it's part of the fabric of the universe. I'm specifically interested in the normalisation of homosexual relationships in scifi. I guess if there are any stories with a gay focus you would recommend anyway, I'd still like to hear about them! The Quantam Thief?
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Aug 6, 2013 23:44
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One month before the semester begins and I need one more read to round it off. Recently read Manifold:Space and loved it. Thinking about reading Timelike Infinity but I've been finding mixed reviews so I figured I'd ask the opinion of goons.
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Aug 7, 2013 00:15
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Dean of Swing posted:One month before the semester begins and I need one more read to round it off. Recently read Manifold:Space and loved it. Thinking about reading Timelike Infinity but I've been finding mixed reviews so I figured I'd ask the opinion of goons. In my option Stephen Baxter's writing got significantly worse as time went on. It's been a long while since I read it, but I preferred Timelike Infinity over any of the Manifold:Something books.
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Aug 7, 2013 03:26
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Hobnob posted:In my option Stephen Baxter's writing got significantly worse as time went on. It's been a long while since I read it, but I preferred Timelike Infinity over any of the Manifold:Something books. I can't recall if I read Timelike Infinity, but the Manifold books dropped in quality like a rock. I remember Manifold:Space was fine, :Time was noticibly worse, and :Origin was awful. :Origin and Titan are the two books that seriously soured me on Baxter. I don't think I even read Vacuum Diagrams even though I loved Ring.
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Aug 7, 2013 04:00
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savinhill posted:I read the first of these, and besides a couple of slow parts with a ton of description, it was very good. Are the sequels just as good as the first one? Well, the 2nd is and some of his other books. Book 3 and 4 are not as good, but still better than most other things out there. Apparently he had a case of the big C, which I guess had its impact on his writing. I like Mcauley's mix of no FTL, space warfare, gene modified humans and cyberpunk.
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Aug 7, 2013 10:12
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Fried Chicken posted:eh, I don't know about The Forever War, it very much plays up "homosexuality is a choice! They do it out of lack of anything else!" For 1974 it was a big step forward, but overall not that great. Homosexuality is so outdated in normal sci-fi. Banging a dude is not shocking when you can have sex with aliens, group-minds looking at you Hamilton and genetically modified humans. Considering that the average scifi/fantasy author have problems writing about women in a realistic way, I guess homosexual relationships are gonna be hard to find. Fantasy is slightly better, both Richard Morgan "The Steel Remains", China Mieville "Iron Council" and Robin Hobb "Rainwild Chronicles" have had reasonable homosexual protagonists. They are good books in any case and highly recommended.
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Aug 7, 2013 10:23
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Cardiac posted:Homosexuality is so outdated in normal sci-fi. Joe Abercrombie has prominent LBGT characters! But it doesn't go well for them... 
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Aug 7, 2013 19:03
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Pyroclastic posted:I can't recall if I read Timelike Infinity, but the Manifold books dropped in quality like a rock. I remember Manifold:Space was fine, :Time was noticibly worse, and :Origin was awful. :Origin and Titan are the two books that seriously soured me on Baxter. I don't think I even read Vacuum Diagrams even though I loved Ring. I thought Titan was by ben bova.
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Aug 7, 2013 19:07
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andrew smash posted:I thought Titan was by ben bova. Both Baxter and Bova have books titled Titan.
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Aug 7, 2013 19:41
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There's definitely a Baxter book called Titan, about a voyage to some moon or other, can't remember which. Vacuum Diagrams is a collection, so you can't really say that it's all of a piece, but I don't remember being that excited by it. Old-fashioned hard sf. You'll like it if you like Larry Niven. (E: Whoops, wrong discussion - I haven't read Timelike Infinity.) SUPERFINE CONCUBINE posted:Hey guys, I love me some good hard SF (Alastair Reynolds is a particular go-to of mine). Lately I've been thinking that I'd really like to read some SF that is a bit more various in its depictions of relationships, because I just can't see a future populated entirely by heterosexual people and couples. I'm really not interested in gay/poly/interspecies/whatever relationships being the main focus, but was wondering whether there were any good stories you'd recommend where it's part of the fabric of the universe. I'm specifically interested in the normalisation of homosexual relationships in scifi. I guess if there are any stories with a gay focus you would recommend anyway, I'd still like to hear about them! Look up the Tiptree and Spectrum Awards in the Sf Awards Database (links in the OP) - they're for sf questioning gender and positive portrayals of queer protagonists (iirc) respectively, so you should find something to suit. And don't forget Ursula le Guin - The Left Hand of Darkness probably isn't what you're looking for, but The Dispossessed might be. Maybe Crowley's The Deep too. Also that would not be a derail at all, it's completely in keeping with the thread's purpose of discussing sf, so go for it if you have anything to say. Lex Talionis posted:Finally, and this may be a reach for you but more people should read them so I'm saying it here anyway, there's Dorothy Dunnett's Lymond and Niccolo series. They're historical fiction, not F&SF (though they've influenced many F&SF writers) Dammit, now you mention her I wish I'd put her in the OP, although I only know her by reputation. One of those writers like O'Brian who aren't sf but are catnip to sf readers. Oh yes, and the August book of the month is Stations of the Tide by Michael Swanwick - a great short Nebula-winning novel, and very chewy and interesting. Plus, Tantric sex! Come and talk about it!
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Aug 7, 2013 19:54
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Anyone read Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay? I got it for my birthday and I really don't like it so far. For one, its incredibly boring. Nothing cool has happened in over two hundred pages. The omniscient viewpoint is jarring, with the narrator dropping in at climactic points to say stuff like, "But if he only knew what lay in store for him he would not have followed her..." The plot is unrelatable to me. So what a fictional fantasy country lost its name? It's not worth dying for. Just move somewhere else you tools.
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Aug 7, 2013 22:55
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BananaNutkins posted:Anyone read Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay? I got it for my birthday and I really don't like it so far. For one, its incredibly boring. Nothing cool has happened in over two hundred pages. The omniscient viewpoint is jarring, with the narrator dropping in at climactic points to say stuff like, "But if he only knew what lay in store for him he would not have followed her..." But not to you. If you're two hundred pages in and feel this way, I don't think you're going to change your mind by gutting out the book. Nor are you likely to appreciate Kay's other work, which is very much of the same kind.
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Aug 8, 2013 00:16
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BananaNutkins posted:The plot is unrelatable to me. So what a fictional fantasy country lost its name? It's not worth dying for. Just move somewhere else you tools. So national identity is not worth dying for? Not according to at least the last 500 years of human history, but who gives a poo poo about that? Bring on the "cool scenes." To me, GGK represents the promise of fantasy as a genre--to use the fantastic as means of bringing a new perspective on fundamental human issues. The idea of an entire group of people not being able to even say the name of their former country is IMO, an elegant way of talking about issues like genocide and ethnic cleansing, without have to write the grimmest of the grimdark novels. I though Tignana was quite good.
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Aug 8, 2013 02:22
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BananaNutkins posted:Anyone read Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay? I got it for my birthday and I really don't like it so far. For one, its incredibly boring. Nothing cool has happened in over two hundred pages. The omniscient viewpoint is jarring, with the narrator dropping in at climactic points to say stuff like, "But if he only knew what lay in store for him he would not have followed her..." It gets better. I also had trouble pushing through some of it, but I thought it was worth it in the end and really enjoyed it overall.
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Aug 8, 2013 02:25
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I read Lauren Beukes's Moxyland this week. I'm not sure all the pieces clicked for me in that novel like, what exactly was the point of having Kendra get nanomachine sponsorship? It doesn't really integrate into the story that much aside from making Toby immune to Marburg at the end. It just seemed kind of out there compared to the rest of the novel. That being said, I'm intrigued enough to check out some of her other work. Is Zoo City as good or better?
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Aug 8, 2013 07:43
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Seldom Posts posted:So national identity is not worth dying for? Not according to at least the last 500 years of human history, but who gives a poo poo about that? Bring on the "cool scenes." As I recall, there was a fair chunk of genocide and ethnic cleansing as well - sure, there were a few survivors, but they were heavily stigmatised and mostly served as an example for others. Also, it's discovered later that the magical fallout from the spell was slowly poisoning the entire Peninsula, which is probably a metaphor for the lingering trauma of an entire country being annihilated but also kinda sucks on a literal level as well. Basically, you do not piss Brandin off.
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Aug 8, 2013 11:47
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Finished The Robots of Dawn last night, and now Robots and Empire is nowhere to be found locally. I should have thought ahead to order from Amazon.
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Aug 8, 2013 14:36
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Darth Walrus posted:As I recall, there was a fair chunk of genocide and ethnic cleansing as well - sure, there were a few survivors, but they were heavily stigmatised and mostly served as an example for others. Also, it's discovered later that the magical fallout from the spell was slowly poisoning the entire Peninsula, which is probably a metaphor for the lingering trauma of an entire country being annihilated but also kinda sucks on a literal level as well. Basically, you do not piss Brandin off. It's been a while since I read it, but my recollection was that the literal genocide is only talked about in the past tense, and not foregrounded the way the name thing is. Good point about what you spoilered--I had forgotten that and it is also a nice elaboration of the metaphor.
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Aug 8, 2013 17:19
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Thanks for all your responses! There're definitely a few there I'd like to have a look at-- Ethan of Athos has an interesting premise, McAuley and Stross look hard SF enough for me so they might have some great stories even if I don't find exactly what I'm after in them. The Dispossessed seems to come up a lot in discussions of good novels, so I definitely want to get around to reading that one and might put it on the to-read list. 
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Aug 9, 2013 06:41
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I don't think the depiction of sexuality in science fiction would even qualify as a derail for this thread - it's been one of the central questions of the genre since, what, the New Wave? Before?
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Aug 9, 2013 06:44
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That's fair. I think discussions about the depiction of sexuality, and also of women, are open questions in scifi and should absolutely be discussed/criticised/analysed. I just wasn't sure whether the first volume of the thread had already covered it and it would be a dog whistle for stupid arguments. Maybe TBB is better about that stuff than the threads I usually read. I also haven't read a lot of sci fi lately and have a crap memory, so I didn't want to start something without being able to participate!
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Aug 9, 2013 07:06
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Fried Chicken posted:Joe Abercrombie has prominent LBGT characters! But it doesn't go well for them... Admittedly nothing goes really well for anyone in Joe Abercrombie's books, except maybe one certain person. Edit: Hal Duncan's Book of All Hours (1/2) also features well done homosexual characters prominently. However the story is really, really weird and hard to follow in my opinion. Decius fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Aug 9, 2013 |
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Aug 9, 2013 08:15
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General Battuta posted:I don't think the depiction of sexuality in science fiction would even qualify as a derail for this thread - it's been one of the central questions of the genre since, what, the New Wave? Before? When I want progressive SF, it seems like the only stuff I could find was from the 60s and 70s. I got the impression sci-fi has kind of pulled back from it since, as the publishing industry has taken less risks over the past three decades. It's due for a revival, especially with the huge disruption in publishing. I still don't know what to do with my LGBT romantic space opera about matriarchal trees and androgynous humanoid mimicks that have spent so long adapting to human imperialism and gender roles that it's hosed with their identities. For years I thought the big imprints were taking nothing but heteronormative cyberpunk and military SF anymore, but now I realize gently caress 'em.
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Aug 9, 2013 09:35
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Just a quick note letting people know that today's Kindle Daily Deal is Surface Detail by Iain M. Banks. for $1.99.
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Aug 9, 2013 10:30
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Stuporstar posted:When I want progressive SF, it seems like the only stuff I could find was from the 60s and 70s. I got the impression sci-fi has kind of pulled back from it since, as the publishing industry has taken less risks over the past three decades. It's due for a revival, especially with the huge disruption in publishing. I still don't know what to do with my LGBT romantic space opera about matriarchal trees and androgynous humanoid mimicks that have spent so long adapting to human imperialism and gender roles that it's hosed with their identities. For years I thought the big imprints were taking nothing but heteronormative cyberpunk and military SF anymore, but now I realize gently caress 'em. Ironically, scifi is a product of its time. Progressive scifi from the 60-70s was a reflection of its time, where everything seemed to go better and better. It is interesting to compare Banks, that started writing in the 80s to Asher, that started publishing in 2000. They have similar universes with sentient AIs ruling humanity/Culture. The difference is in attitude, Banks is more of an idealist, while Asher is more cynical.
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Aug 9, 2013 11:12
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Cardiac posted:It is interesting to compare Banks, that started writing in the 80s to Asher, that started publishing in 2000. You think being a socialist in Britain in the eighties makes you an starry-eyed idealist? 
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Aug 9, 2013 11:19
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Besides, wasn't the main focus in the Culture books the often-horrifying impact that the perfect AI-run utopia had on those nations and species they deemed less perfect?
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Aug 9, 2013 11:22
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Fart of Presto posted:Just a quick note letting people know that today's Kindle Daily Deal is Surface Detail by Iain M. Banks. for $1.99. I was just coming to post this! I'm about halfway through Player of Games and I'm loving it. Surface Detail appears to be much further along in the series, but how important is it to read the culture books in order?
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Aug 9, 2013 15:04
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Bruxism posted:I was just coming to post this! I'm about halfway through Player of Games and I'm loving it. Surface Detail appears to be much further along in the series, but how important is it to read the culture books in order? Almost not at all, just read Use of Weapons before Surface Detail.
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Aug 9, 2013 15:19
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Darth Walrus posted:Besides, wasn't the main focus in the Culture books the often-horrifying impact that the perfect AI-run utopia had on those nations and species they deemed less perfect? Short and Midterm they might be horrible, but usually long-term (which means thousands of years) they usually were positive, at least were Contact and SC was involved. The hobby social architect AIs were more clumsy.
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Aug 9, 2013 16:43
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Cardiac posted:Ironically, scifi is a product of its time. Isn't Asher also a fascist? I mean, I didn't get that so much from the books - sure, there are elements of it, but he could just be a big believer in strongly superhuman AIs and their potential for bettering humanity - but he may have made some statements elsewhere.
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Aug 9, 2013 16:46
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http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/ref=pe_170810_31764420?ASIN=B0046A9NLC Iain M Banks's Surface Detail is the Kindle Daily Deal today 
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Aug 9, 2013 17:54
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Ferret posted:Rachel Aaron is today's Kindle Daily Deal, and I really enjoyed the Eli Monpress stories - they're a bit similar to the Gentlemen Bastards in that the main character is a charming thief. I gave these a shot and the first three at least are fun little books. They remind me a lot of the early Asprin MYTH books -- fun enough that you don't mind they're a little formulaic. Definitely in the popcorn fantasy category but original enough to be interesting, quick-paced, relatively lighthearted. You can tell the author probably wrote a lot of fan fiction at some point, there are brief flurries of Mary Sue-ism and power creep here and there, but she does a good job of keeping that kind of thing under control and maintaining narrative tension. Sort of thing where you think you're reading pure pulp then every fifty pages or so there's a flash that surprises and reminds you "Hey! This is actually a pretty good book!"
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Aug 9, 2013 19:44
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Neurosis posted:Isn't Asher also a fascist? I mean, I didn't get that so much from the books - sure, there are elements of it, but he could just be a big believer in strongly superhuman AIs and their potential for bettering humanity - but he may have made some statements elsewhere. Not exactly fascist but fairly right-wing authoritarian. It really only shows up explicitly in his later books, though. Another person to compare is Ken MacLeod, who is considerably further left than Banks and has a take on AIs that is completely different.
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Aug 9, 2013 20:17
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Stuporstar posted:When I want progressive SF, it seems like the only stuff I could find was from the 60s and 70s. I got the impression sci-fi has kind of pulled back from it since, as the publishing industry has taken less risks over the past three decades. It's due for a revival, especially with the huge disruption in publishing. I still don't know what to do with my LGBT romantic space opera about matriarchal trees and androgynous humanoid mimicks that have spent so long adapting to human imperialism and gender roles that it's hosed with their identities. For years I thought the big imprints were taking nothing but heteronormative cyberpunk and military SF anymore, but now I realize gently caress 'em.  Please can I read this?
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Aug 10, 2013 03:25
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