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Also for the types of devices where MIPS is (was?) used you might have an interesting aside as to what comprises stdout
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Aug 8, 2013 18:27
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Good Will Hrunting posted:So I had an interview today. It went really well and I like the culture, size, etc. I'm just a little concerned with the technology they use. They're using some Java technology (EJB/JBoss/JSP) that others have told me is "outdated" and while it fits the product they make, this was a little disconcerting to hear. This will really be my "first" dev job, so I'm not sure what to make of it. How much is it going to impact my career by starting off working with these things that may soon die? I'm biased, but if I had to choose again, I wouldn't have taken my first programming job. It set me back, and I'm heavily paying for it. However you are working with Java, so you at least have the possibility to easily start using a newer language/framework at work or in your free time.
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Aug 8, 2013 18:50
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Good Will Hrunting posted:So I had an interview today. It went really well and I like the culture, size, etc. I'm just a little concerned with the technology they use. They're using some Java technology (EJB/JBoss/JSP) that others have told me is "outdated" and while it fits the product they make, this was a little disconcerting to hear. This will really be my "first" dev job, so I'm not sure what to make of it. How much is it going to impact my career by starting off working with these things that may soon die? There are two sides to this: 1) Individual technology isn't all that important in a technological career. You can have knowledge in an area, work for just a few years in another, and come back to see that exactly 0% of your knowledge is still relevant. That's just life as a programmer. The odds that your next job uses exactly the same technology stack as your current one is...not so good. 2) While it's perfectly possible for a company to be stuck with a legacy technology stack because their selling products are based on it [1], I would certainly pay attention and try to see if they are keeping up with everything else. Ideally, they have a mix of older and newer technologies in use, things being replaced as clearly better alternatives become available and reach stability, and they are anticipating when things become old enough that support may eventually be problematic. Maybe an example says it better: if their flagship product is written in C/assembler and runs on 8051, this may not mean anything. But when they check their code in via CVS, run for the door. If everything is written in Ruby/Clojure/Dart/Go/language of the month, I would run for the door, too. You want to know if management, key architects and the majority of your future colleagues are people who're still keeping track of developments. If they are not, this job may end up being a mistake. [1] "Legacy": insult used by programmers. Meaning: it works.
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Aug 8, 2013 20:35
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Hello everybody. I have some questions about pursuing a degree in computer science. My plan is to take all of the classes that will transfer to a four year university at a community college, and then transfer into the computer science program. Does anybody have any experience doing this, and will a future interviewer have less respect for classes that were taken at a community college as opposed to a four year university? Also, the only thing I know is that I want a degree in computer science, but I'm having trouble narrowing it down further. Is this something that will be a problem, or do most figure narrow down what they want to do as they move along through their time at the university? Another problem that I'm afraid I may run into is that I will not be able to take very many CS related classes at the community college I am attending, and I feel that this will put me in a place where I'm ahead in other studies (I plan on going through calculus, the required lab sciences, and writing and public speaking classes that are required at the community college), but behind in CS classes. I feel that this is a concern because I'm hoping that this will not stifle my ability to get an internship while I am at the university. I appreciate all responses, and if this is the wrong thread, then I apologize. Thank you for your time.
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Aug 8, 2013 23:11
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quote:My plan is to take all of the classes that will transfer to a four year university at a community college, and then transfer into the computer science program. Does anybody have any experience doing this, and will a future interviewer have less respect for classes that were taken at a community college as opposed to a four year university? Also I took off the CC from my resume when I graduated because it's not like I got a degree there so who cares? quote:Also, the only thing I know is that I want a degree in computer science, but I'm having trouble narrowing it down further. Is this something that will be a problem, or do most figure narrow down what they want to do as they move along through their time at the university? quote:Another problem that I'm afraid I may run into is that I will not be able to take very many CS related classes at the community college I am attending, and I feel that this will put me in a place where I'm ahead in other studies (I plan on going through calculus, the required lab sciences, and writing and public speaking classes that are required at the community college), but behind in CS classes. I feel that this is a concern because I'm hoping that this will not stifle my ability to get an internship while I am at the university.
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Aug 8, 2013 23:49
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Cicero posted:Well then I would recommend transferring earlier. Having all your CS classes towards the end would be awkward for internships and professional development. What I should have mentioned is that my grades were poor in high school, and that I need certain classes in order to fulfill requirements for a transfer degree. If it weren't for that, I'd be more than happy to transfer early. I'll try to talk to my councilor and see if he has anything to say, even though I'm not too optimistic about it, haha. Thank you for your time.
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Aug 9, 2013 00:16
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I know a lot of people who picked up their AA at community college, then transferred to a university for more specialized courses. I don't think it ever hurt any of them.
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Aug 9, 2013 00:20
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Bognar posted:I know a lot of people who picked up their AA at community college, then transferred to a university for more specialized courses. I don't think it ever hurt any of them.
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Aug 9, 2013 00:32
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Cicero posted:Maybe I'm just paranoid and weird, but I wouldn't get a degree at a community college. Then I'd feel obligated to list it on my resume, and (this is where the paranoia comes in) I have a sneaking suspicion it'd make your resume look worse to have a community college listed on there + university, than just having the university. I think it depends, but I'd bet on people not caring. Different field (still STEM) but I went to a really lovely might as well be CC university for my Freshman year, but then transferred to a top 25 college. I got into a top 5 PhD program fine with a mediocre overall GPA but high major GPA including some graduate level courses I took in my last 2 years. My impression is, if people care about your performance in college, usually they really only care about the last 2 years. Unless you did all of your major courses in the first 2 years, it really shouldn't matter. There are CC's that are feeder schools to places like Berkeley, and if you did well your last 2 years at Berkeley, no one's going to give a drat your where your first two years were. Rurutia fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Aug 9, 2013 |
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Aug 9, 2013 00:41
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Rurutia posted:I think it depends, but I'd bet on people not caring. Different field (still STEM) but I went to a really lovely might as well be CC university for my Freshman year, but then transferred to a top 25 college. I got into a top 5 PhD program fine with a mediocre overall GPA but high major GPA including some graduate level courses I took in my last 2 years.
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Aug 9, 2013 01:00
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Skuto posted:stuff Interesting comment about Ruby. The language has been around for two decades and Rails is basically a standard in non-enterprise web frameworks, so I wouldn't quite claim that if you see a 99% ruby shop you should run away. If you run into something like a Haskell shop and you're really interested in the paradigm / getting your hands dirty in the area while surrounded by experts, it might be actually a good opportunity.
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Aug 9, 2013 01:50
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Last Wednesday I had a phone screen that ended in "Let us know when you can take off to come into our office!". I talked to my boss Thursday, and emailed the company my availability on Friday. I still haven't heard back from them. They stressed on the phone that they were "in no rush" to hire as the office was expanding and they were waiting on construction to finish. The position I was applying for was in the end of year plan, but there wasn't really any rush to fill it (they want to double in staff, though). Should I follow up with them, or just wait? The phone screen was really short and there was nothing I did wrong that I can recall. I just went through my resume basically, no technical questions. They probably don't really want me but I could have another offer as soon as tomorrow and this place is my number 1 so I'm a bit perplexed.
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Aug 9, 2013 01:54
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I would just hit them up once a week or so.
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Aug 9, 2013 03:45
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Cicero posted:Maybe I'm just paranoid and weird, but I wouldn't get a degree at a community college. Then I'd feel obligated to list it on my resume, and (this is where the paranoia comes in) I have a sneaking suspicion it'd make your resume look worse to have a community college listed on there + university, than just having the university. This is possibly the worst piece of reasoning I've ever heard.
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Aug 9, 2013 04:15
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if you didn't go to stanford or berkeley or something like that then literally no one cares where you went to college, just that you did so. List where you got the degree from and any especially relevant coursework and nothing else.
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Aug 9, 2013 04:37
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Just don't go to a community college. Problem solved.
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Aug 9, 2013 06:00
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Even if you went to somewhere brand name if all you did was coursework it doesn't really make a difference. The only people who think it matters are academics.
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Aug 9, 2013 06:06
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I went to a small no-name private school. My resume says I have a BS from University of ABC...but I also have listed under work experience the UABC Department of X and UABC Office of Y and UABC Z Services Department, and those still get noticed because I had several solid years of reasonably relevant experience there. Nobody's ever commented on the CS degree other than noticing that it exists.
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Aug 9, 2013 06:38
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unixbeard posted:Even if you went to somewhere brand name if all you did was coursework it doesn't really make a difference. The only people who think it matters are academics. some people are impressed by degrees from ivy league schools. its an open question for the reader whether or not they'd want to work for someone that's impressed by a degree from an ivy league school.
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Aug 9, 2013 06:45
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Strong Sauce posted:Just don't go to a community college. Problem solved. Getting your generals finished up at a cheaper school that'll transfer to the university you're planning on is a solid choice if you want to save cash, and probably people don't give a poo poo if you're just doing generals anyways.
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Aug 9, 2013 07:11
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Strong Sauce posted:Just don't go to a community college. Problem solved. First year science and math classes are almost identical anywhere you go, be it community college or an ivy school. I used to watch MIT OpenCourseWare videos to review for my chemistry classes because the videos were exactly the same material we'd go over in class.
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Aug 9, 2013 07:37
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rotor posted:some people are impressed by degrees from ivy league schools. One of my girlfriend's friends has a BS in computer science from Princeton. She is useless as a developer and teaches math to inner city kids. One of the best developers I know has almost no computer science background and had to have algorithm complexity explained to him. Poorly. By me. Because I'm a competent developer but I've largely forgotten everything I learned in school. The bottom line is that your degree matters under the following circumstances:
Anecdotal: I've never met a developer with a masters degree who was even remotely competent. I'm sure there are tons out there, but I haven't run into any.
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Aug 9, 2013 07:37
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Nippashish posted:This is possibly the worst piece of reasoning I've ever heard.
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Aug 9, 2013 07:49
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Cicero posted:Why? oRenj9 posted:First year science and math classes are almost identical anywhere you go, be it community college or an ivy school. I used to watch MIT OpenCourseWare videos to review for my chemistry classes because the videos were exactly the same material we'd go over in class.
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Aug 9, 2013 07:57
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Ithaqua posted:The bottom line is that your degree matters under the following circumstances: I agree with this in general, except maybe the second one once some experience has been gained (say > 2 years). If its for an experienced role, I think in most cases companies would go with whoever had the most relevant experience vs someone with an ivy league degree but only somewhat related experience. There are exceptions, like more speculative hires with more open ended roles/responsibilities, but those positions are relatively rare. That said having an top tier name on your CV might help get an interview, especially if its the same school as the interviewer.
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Aug 9, 2013 07:58
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Like it looks good on your CV for sure, but doing intro to databases at Stanford is not going to make a giant difference in terms of knowledge/abilities vs doing it at most other institutions.
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Aug 9, 2013 08:00
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If you look at my further explanation, my reasoning has nothing to do with whether community colleges are actually academically weaker than universities (that was the case for me but of course it varies). But whether or not it's true that community colleges are weaker, I think there's a substantial portion of the population that believes them to be weaker. That perception is what I'm working off of. This is definitely a min-maxing situation and is unlikely to matter, which is why I said I did it out of paranoia. But, even though the odds of it helping are small, the odds of it hurting are smaller still, so I saw no reason not to leave my CC off my resume. Cicero fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Aug 9, 2013 |
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Aug 9, 2013 08:01
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Ithaqua posted:Anecdotal: I've never met a developer with a masters degree who was even remotely competent. I'm sure there are tons out there, but I haven't run into any. Personally I'm always open to people no matter if they have a degree or not, although my experience says that on average, those with an education are better. I admit I've met very few master devs though. Perhaps they think it's boring to do development and go into other fields?
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Aug 9, 2013 09:18
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DreadCthulhu posted:Interesting comment about Ruby. The language has been around for two decades and Rails is basically a standard in non-enterprise web frameworks, so I wouldn't quite claim that if you see a 99% ruby shop you should run away. If you run into something like a Haskell shop and you're really interested in the paradigm / getting your hands dirty in the area while surrounded by experts, it might be actually a good opportunity. The comment was about "hyped language of the month", not any specific language in particular. (And I was actually more thinking about the Ruby on Rails hype a few years back rather than Ruby as a language.) The point was that you want to make sure they're keeping up with developments. The presence of one outdated technology isn't necessarily a red flag there, even if it's in a flagship product. Jumping into every new fad also doesn't qualify as "keeping up with developments". Personally I would avoid the "99% Ruby/99% Haskell shop" if this means everything, including things that really shouldn't, are coded in it.
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Aug 9, 2013 09:30
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Cicero posted:Why? Your whole line of reasoning is based off a hunch about some hypothetical person's subconscious reaction, and any possibility of the scenario you describe ever happening is completely avoided by not listing the community collage on your resume if you're actually afraid of it. Except that's for some reason not okay, because you'd feel obligated to list it anyway for some reason I can't possibly fathom.
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Aug 9, 2013 12:55
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Ithaqua posted:Anecdotal: I've never met a developer with a masters degree who was even remotely competent. I'm sure there are tons out there, but I haven't run into any. I certainly wouldn't actively dock people for having a Masters, but it is basically just an extra year of CS undergrad in terms of learning potential.
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Aug 9, 2013 14:12
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Skuto posted:Personally I would avoid the "99% Ruby/99% Haskell shop" if this means everything, including things that really shouldn't, are coded in it. This is really objectively false on the Ruby side of things. "99% Ruby" typically means that the shop specializes in Rails applications (assuming you're referring to consultancies of sorts), of which there are bountiful amounts out there. Rails is over eight years old at this point and it's not going anywhere any time soon. You could even argue that it's not even that cool any more because of the FOTM JavaScript frameworks, almost all of which are still very immature. Ruby's not a perfect language by any means, but there's no reason to consider it to be in the same domain as Haskell given that there are plenty of opportunities out there for using it.
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Aug 9, 2013 14:46
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quote:
How can it be "objectively false" if the statement you are replying to is explicitly worded as a personal preference? Are you saying it is demonstrably wrong for me not to want to work somewhere where there is a programming language monoculture? Are you saying that Ruby is such a supreme language that there isn't any situation in which choosing it simply because your programmers are more familiar with it would be wrong? If you like quote:"99% Ruby" typically means that the shop specializes in Rails applications (assuming you're referring to consultancies of sorts), I'm not referring to anything, the "99% ruby shop" idea comes from the poster I replied to. But it does seem likely to me that a large amount of Ruby deployment in the world is due to Rails. quote:<Rest of the post spewing outrage at Ruby being compared to Haskell> Please reread the first paragraph of my post, notably where I point out that I gave Ruby (on Rails) as an example of something that was the hype of the month...8 or so years ago.
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Aug 9, 2013 15:54
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Ithaqua posted:Anecdotal: I've never met a developer with a masters degree who was even remotely competent. I'm sure there are tons out there, but I haven't run into any. At least half of the new hires my team has had that, uh, didn't really impress me, left and went to grad school, so...
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Aug 9, 2013 16:02
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Nippashish posted:Your whole line of reasoning is based off a hunch about some hypothetical person's subconscious reaction, and any possibility of the scenario you describe ever happening is completely avoided by not listing the community collage on your resume if you're actually afraid of it. Except that's for some reason not okay, because you'd feel obligated to list it anyway for some reason I can't possibly fathom. Pilsner posted:Anecdotal: The best developer I've met was a M.Sc. CS student, and was also involved in academica, such as research. He was super skilled both in theory as well as practical programming. edit: or yeah there's the idea that people who can't hack it in industry when they get their bachelor's in CS go back to academia. I knew one guy from my CS program like that, he was literally the only CS major I knew who seemed...less than bright. Cicero fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Aug 9, 2013 |
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Aug 9, 2013 16:47
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I'd just like to add that the best programmer I know, in person, got a degree at ITT Tech, job hopped like hell (4mo at one job, a bit less than a year on average, 2 years was the longest he ever held a job) and is right now a team lead and a drat good developer in his own right. He also got everyone doing scrum and agile dev while dealing with ever changing requirements and even training nooblets like me into some manner of productive competence. If someone can get that good and get in a leadership role despite going to   ITT,  someone who went to a CC or State University to learn to code is hardly incapable of doing the same.Anyhow, if you have an AA, but didn't finish at a University before you got your first job, would it be best to say "AA at $CC, Studied at $UNI" or just "AA at $CC"?
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Aug 9, 2013 16:55
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Are there any books about computer science algorithms that any of you could recommend for someone coming into programming without any formal CS qualification? Since beginning my course in Python (which teaches the language through simple games), I've become really interested, but Amazon has yielded a lot of books that are all seemingly great. My fear is that the books are for CS majors and not a lowly biochemist. E: I should point out that I'm pretty good at pure maths and stats up to A-level standard (UK). WeezerToon fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Aug 9, 2013 |
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Aug 9, 2013 16:57
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I've been looking to learn some Python myself. Beginner things are too easy, so I came across this. Not sure if it's good but worth a look: http://interactivepython.org/courselib/static/pythonds/ Also this is the algorithms book: http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/introduction-algorithms
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Aug 9, 2013 17:01
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WeezerToon posted:Are there any books about computer science algorithms that any of you could recommend for someone coming into programming without any formal CS qualification? I'm taking an introductory algorithms course right now , and the book we are using "Algorithm Design" by Kleinberg & Tardos. It's pretty good and teaches you the fundamentals (graph algorithms, divide and conquer, randomized, greedy, DP etc.). Pretty expensive though.
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Aug 9, 2013 17:16
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I'm doing a masters part time now while working full time as a software engineer (so it doesn't really cost me anything) and you're all freaking me out that it might actively go against me in the future!
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Aug 9, 2013 17:18
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