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Junkie Disease posted:I already stated that why they went with the screen type they did is due to familiarity of design, stylus, and the area I don't know well at all manufacturing costs. Thanks for your out of context quotes though. Do you know what context means? Because I picked those quotes within the context of you repeatedly and vehemently stressing that you're not an expert, you are making guesses, you are not familiar with the technology, and you have no understanding of how manufacturing, supply, and/or demand work.
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Aug 12, 2013 00:03
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KittyEmpress posted:The biggest thing to note about the screens is that apparently only a single factory knew how to make them and is now closing down. While that could be bullshit about them being the only ones able to make them, I do not doubt they were chosen for being the cheapest. That means the price per unit of the controller is likely to go up, if they do not redesign it somehow. It was for the eDRAM, and they've already found another supplier. edit: at least, according to this NeoGAF post, which links to a Japanese site that I can't read Midee fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Aug 12, 2013 |
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Aug 12, 2013 00:05
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Junkie Disease posted:I already stated that why they went with the screen type they did is due to familiarity of design, stylus, and the area I don't know well at all manufacturing costs. Thanks for your out of context quotes though. You seem to think the statement that "Nintendo had reasons" is a major refutal of the the entire thread, but I don't recall anyone claiming that Nintendo didn't have reasons for their decisions. Just that they turned out to be bad or misguided in many cases.
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Aug 12, 2013 00:07
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The whole reason for the Wii U tablet in the first place was to play games while someone else watches TV, which sounded good on paper to Nintendo I guess. In reality though you can just buy a cheap 32" Insignia at Best Buy for 2/3 the price of a Wii U and put in the kids room to play their Wii so you can have the main TV all to yourself.
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Aug 12, 2013 00:14
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Cowcaster posted:Do you know what context means? Because I picked those quotes within the context of you repeatedly and vehemently stressing that you're not an expert, you are making guesses, you are not familiar with the technology, and you have no understanding of how manufacturing, supply, and/or demand work. Um yeah you might have picked those quotes within that context but then you took them out of context and listed them all in a row. Not really adding much to the discussion since this is a place where even laymen who aren't experts can weigh in.
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Aug 12, 2013 00:14
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Midee posted:The whole reason for the Wii U tablet in the first place was to play games while someone else watches TV, which sounded good on paper to Nintendo I guess. In reality though you can just buy a cheap 32" Insignia at Best Buy for 2/3 the price of a Wii U and put in the kids room to play their Wii so you can have the main TV all to yourself. I live in a one bedroom apartment with one main TV with an Xbox and a Wii U hooked up to it, as well as a Chromecasted bedroom TV. If my girlfriend wants to play on the Xbox, off TV play is pretty rad. Not everyone has places to put TVs everywhere.
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Aug 12, 2013 00:20
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Wandle Cax posted:Um yeah you might have picked those quotes within that context but then you took them out of context and listed them all in a row. Not really adding much to the discussion since this is a place where even laymen who aren't experts can weigh in. Allow me to weigh in with my theory that Nintendo picked a resistive touchscreen because they're made from delicious rock candy and they not only don't have to pay extra for the privilege of using an outdated, dying technology, but in fact are paid by the resistive touchscreen manufacturers in piles of filthy lucre fished from Blackbeard's own treasure trove. Hey man, I'm just a layman I'm not an expert alright. I don't know anything about why Nintendo designed their system the way they did, but I'd like to make the guess that the three-headed hound guardian of Hades, Cerberus, appeared in a winged chariot in one of their board meetings and told them to make one of the controllers a tablet. I wasn't there though, so I'm not sure if that's true, it's just a guess. I'm also no industrial engineer, but it seems to me like the main advantage of a resistive touchscreen over a capacitive one is the fact that it releases a pink lavender-scented gas when you rub a stylus on it. Also when you use a stylus on a capacitive touchscreen it shouts at you to stop playing videogames and go outside. That seems like a highly beneficial advantage to using a stylus/resistive touchscreen pair and it was well worth Nintendo's consideration when they decided to use it. Some people might say that's ludicrous and untrue, and maybe they know more about them than I do. I'm just reporting my experience having read about the differences between the two types of touchscreen on wikipedia, not having used them or having ever been within 50 feet of one. This doesn't make my opinions any more or less valid than yours and I have the right to post them in this thread. Cowcaster fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Aug 12, 2013 |
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Aug 12, 2013 00:21
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deadwing posted:I live in a one bedroom apartment with one main TV with an Xbox and a Wii U hooked up to it, as well as a Chromecasted bedroom TV. If my girlfriend wants to play on the Xbox, off TV play is pretty rad. Not everyone has places to put TVs everywhere.
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Aug 12, 2013 00:23
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Midee posted:Likewise not everyone has $350 to blow on a half-assed Nintendo console with no games, which is why if they even needed that "second screen" in the first place they're more likely to just buy another TV. I bought the Wii U primarily because Nintendo makes my favorite games by miles. Since the Wii U launch I've bought eight retail games for it, compared to a grand total of none for my 360, so my definition and your definition of no games might vary slightly. The second screen was something I was iffy about until I actually had the system. Actually having it, asymmetric multiplayer is ridiculously fun and I've used off screen play way more than I imagined.
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Aug 12, 2013 00:56
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Are there even 8 games on the WiiU?
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Aug 12, 2013 00:59
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deadwing posted:I bought the Wii U primarily because Nintendo makes my favorite games by miles. Since the Wii U launch I've bought eight retail games for it, compared to a grand total of none for my 360 Perhaps you have a broken brain if you can't think of a single amazing 360 game to buy over it's lifecycle.
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Aug 12, 2013 00:59
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The Wii U needs a Henry Hatsworth sequel. That game's practically made for the system. Second screen action you don't need to actively watch, or even interact with until everything on the primary screen is taken care of.
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Aug 12, 2013 01:04
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Midee posted:The whole reason for the Wii U tablet in the first place was to play games while someone else watches TV... The whole reason for the Wii U tablet in the first place was that Nintendo was terrified of Apple and was desperate to compete with the iPad in any way. From May 2010 (Apple released the iPad in April 2010), Nintendo began to repeatedly state that Apple was their biggest threat. And then exactly a year later they announced the Wii U, which has a tablet! They basically made the exact same mistake Microsoft made - tried to compete with the iPad, except with hardware not as good as the iPad's. http://www.forbes.com/sites/briancaulfield/2010/10/21/apple-bigger-near-term-threat-than-microsoft-nintendo-of-america-president-says/ http://www.destructoid.com/nintendo-apple-is-the-enemy-of-the-future--173159.phtml http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-10-25-nintendo-apple-is-our-greatest-threat Polo-Rican fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Aug 12, 2013 |
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Aug 12, 2013 01:06
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OatmealRaisin posted:Are there even 8 games on the WiiU? Nintendo Land New Super Mario Bros. U Sonic Transformed ZombiU Monster Hunter 3 U Lego City Undercover Game & Wario Pikmin 3 So, yes. Also got five eShop games and a solid VC library. Almost every time I've wanted to play video games for the past nine months, I've turned to my Wii U besides some spurts in Dark Souls, Battlefield 3, FTL, and Hotline Miami. OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:Perhaps you have a broken brain if you can't think of a single amazing 360 game to buy over it's lifecycle. Maybe your brain is broken since you can't comprehend that I said since the Wii U launched, not over the 360's lifecycle. I have a solid fifty or so retail 360 games. deadwing fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Aug 12, 2013 |
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Aug 12, 2013 01:14
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Basically every Nintendo decision since 1993 has been about having total control over everything forever. They cheated on Sony with Phillips because Phillips offered a contract with nicer terms. They didn't adopt CDs because they couldn't control the format to make it [strike]impossible[/strike]as hard as possible to copy; cartridges meant they controlled the interface between game and system. When they did start using discs with the Gamecube, it was a funky format rather than widely-available DVDs. They went with resistive screens nobody makes because then they have more control over the company that makes the screens than if they went with some random company in Shenzhen making capacitive screens for everyone under the sun. Same deal with the processor architecture of the Wii U. There's your "one reason" for Nintendo's weird, inefficient, expensive decisions over the past few years. Now you can stop blaming Satoru Iwata, because the control-freak attitude significantly predates him. Polo-Rican posted:The whole reason for the Wii U tablet in the first place was that Nintendo was terrified of Apple and was desperate to compete with the iPad in any way.
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Aug 12, 2013 01:59
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I'm not sure where the evidence of capacative screens being less expensive than resistive screens came from. I just did a quick search on Alibaba because everything is sold there, and there's a hell of a lot more companies selling resistive touch screens than capacitive touch screens. I guess people are mixed up with the whole RAM situation or something. I always assumed the cost was mostly due to the custom wireless system that eliminates wireless lag, as well as other additions that primarily exist to enhance the user experience and stability such as the geomagnetic sensor. If anyone actually has a link that says that capacitive touch screens are cheaper to make, go ahead and prove me wrong, but otherwise I'm going to assume this whole line of thinking is full of poo poo.
deadwing fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Aug 12, 2013 |
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Aug 12, 2013 02:39
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I just find it so weird that Nintendo turned anything that could've been an asset for the WiiU into a liability. It's based on older technology, so it should be cheaper - Nope, it's got a tablet controller driving up the price. It's got a tablet controller, so it must be portable in some way - Nope, it's tethered to the system. It was released after an HD generation, so they must've worked the kinks out - Nope, many titles have been delayed because of problems with HD development. Third party developers know how to develop HD games, so they'll support the system - Nope, horrid sales and Nintendo's rather rocky relations with developers means half-assed ports and little else.
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Aug 12, 2013 03:55
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deadwing posted:I'm not sure where the evidence of capacative screens being less expensive than resistive screens came from. I just did a quick search on Alibaba because everything is sold there, and there's a hell of a lot more companies selling resistive touch screens than capacitive touch screens. I guess people are mixed up with the whole RAM situation or something. I always assumed the cost was mostly due to the custom wireless system that eliminates wireless lag, as well as other additions that primarily exist to enhance the user experience and stability such as the geomagnetic sensor. If anyone actually has a link that says that capacitive touch screens are cheaper to make, go ahead and prove me wrong, but otherwise I'm going to assume this whole line of thinking is full of poo poo. I don't know the answer to this question, but I would think that sales price wouldn't necessarily be reflective of manufacturing costs. For example, low prices could indicate a desire to clear less popular stock.
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Aug 12, 2013 04:00
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I don't know anything about modern video gaming or video games in general, but I am desperately trying to keep my youngest brother from getting one of these for Christmas this year. It just seems...so unnecessarily complicated.
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Aug 12, 2013 04:03
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Toady posted:I don't know the answer to this question, but I would think that sales price wouldn't necessarily be reflective of manufacturing costs. For example, low prices could indicate a desire to clear less popular stock. There is also a R&D cost that Nintendo associates with each console it produces, so even if the components themselves are cheaper than retail the overall manufacturing cost is higher
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Aug 12, 2013 04:04
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crankdatbatman posted:I don't know anything about modern video gaming or video games in general, but I am desperately trying to keep my youngest brother from getting one of these for Christmas this year. It just seems...so unnecessarily complicated. Dang ol' technology taking over, I don't associate myself with no robots I sure don't!
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Aug 12, 2013 04:04
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crankdatbatman posted:I don't know anything about modern video gaming or video games in general, but I am desperately trying to keep my youngest brother from getting one of these for Christmas this year. It just seems...so unnecessarily complicated. He does know about the PS4/Xbone/PC, right? Hell if he wants nintendo stuff, a 3DS, that's actually a good thing.
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Aug 12, 2013 04:09
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OatmealRaisin posted:Are there even 8 games on the WiiU? There was like 20 at launch. The problem was it was Nintendo and third party publishers blowing their load because between December and August there has been maybe around 8 games released. Quite a few months with nothing released.
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Aug 12, 2013 04:14
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:There was like 20 at launch. And the same thing will happen to PS4/XBox One  Also the off-screen play does have some use, I've enjoyed it and it's also nice to be playing, someone wants to talk so you just throw the game on the gamepad and go into the other room to hang out. One thing I find pretty impressive with the gamepad honestly is that you can do this with it:  Even without a TV you can use wiimotes on a game which kind of amazes me. You can see my pointer to the right of the 3 in Pikmin 3. There has been plenty of repeated bitching about how useless the remote play is on PS3 even with a Vita so there are people that want such a thing.
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Aug 12, 2013 04:24
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Well the PS4's remote play is supposed to be a lot better, every PS4 game requires compatibility with Vita's remote play unless it has something that would make it not work (i.e. require the Playstation Eye). And that'll work over the internet so the Wii U will have competition on that front.
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Aug 12, 2013 06:41
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:There was like 20 at launch. A lot of releases are non-exclusives, too, running against consoles that already have the whole market cornered, too. The WiiU is in some sort of weird limbo where there's too many ports, percentage wise, but not enough ports to get its library up to size. The fact it's bleeding third party support is going to be interesting to me- I want to see how the ratio of exclusive games ends up compared to Sony and Microsoft's offerings.
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Aug 12, 2013 06:46
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RagnarokAngel posted:Well the PS4's remote play is supposed to be a lot better, every PS4 game requires compatibility with Vita's remote play unless it has something that would make it not work (i.e. require the Playstation Eye). Being internet-based means it probably won't be lag-free, though. I'm still of the position that the Gamepad is a really nice thing to have around (I can chill out in bed and play a classic SNES game or a full-fledged console game like Pikmin, which is an absolute pleasure to be able to do), but it clearly required a lot of expenses and compromises to implement. I think harping on things like the resistive touch screen is still a bit tangential. If you look at the people who bought a Wii and not a Wii U, it's not because of the type of screen they built into the Gamepad. Almost none of them KNOW what kind of touchscreen it has. It kind of comes down to whether you think the very concept is unworkable in the market regardless of execution, or you think that the system is just dying a death of a thousand compromises. Me, I can picture a world where the Gamepad has a capacitive screen and the sales are no different. Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Aug 12, 2013 |
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Aug 12, 2013 06:52
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Oh sure it won't be lag free over the internet, but it can still directly connect to the console like the Wii U's gamepad does as well at local range.
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Aug 12, 2013 06:54
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Supercar Gautier posted:If you look at the people who bought a Wii and not a Wii U, it's not because of the type of screen they built into the Gamepad. Almost none of them KNOW what kind of touchscreen it has. People know its a bad touch screen when they try and use it like their phone, or tablet, or heaven forbid a touchscreen all-in-one PC and it doesn't work like those do. That's all people need to know.
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Aug 12, 2013 07:14
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You're still presuming that it's making its way into these people's hands in the first place. The far, far larger issue is that it's not making it that far.
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Aug 12, 2013 07:21
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Supercar Gautier posted:You're still presuming that it's making its way into these people's hands in the first place. The far, far larger issue is that it's not making it that far. Well yeah, why would anyone buy a tablet when they already have an iPad? What do you mean the wiiu isn't a tablet?
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Aug 12, 2013 07:23
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That's kind of a deflection from the fact that there's been a whole lot of noise in this thread about issues that are well below the surface of the actual larger problem. While things like touch-screen type obviously don't help, they don't have the opportunity to do much damage either. It's deck-chair level business. If you ask the average person why they don't own a Wii U, their answer isn't going to be "Oh yeah I tried it out but the screen wasn't really responsive in the way I expected", or "They aren't releasing Virtual Console games very quickly", or "The graphics aren't a big step above the current generation". People don't have a chance to make those complaints because Nintendo's marketing has not familiarized them with the console, and sales therefore wouldn't be doing much better if any of those things were different.
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Aug 12, 2013 07:31
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Supercar Gautier posted:If you ask the average person why they don't own a Wii U, their answer isn't going to be "Oh yeah I tried it out but the screen wasn't really responsive in the way I expected", or "They aren't releasing Virtual Console games very quickly", or "The graphics aren't a big step above the current generation". People don't have a chance to make those complaints because Nintendo's marketing has not familiarized them with the console, and sales therefore wouldn't be doing much better if any of those things were different. This guy knows what is what. The main problem is that Nintendo has failed to create an idea in the consumer's head of what the Wii U is and what the benefits of the new system are. It's not that the system itself is inherently terrible like some of you seem to think.
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Aug 12, 2013 07:39
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Wandle Cax posted:This guy knows what is what. The main problem is that Nintendo has failed to create an idea in the consumer's head of what the Wii U is and what the benefits of the new system are. It's not that the system itself is inherently terrible like some of you seem to think. I feel like they may have figured that, with the Wii's success, the brand would be able to do a lot of the marketing. It's worked for them before! Look at Mario! Look at Zelda! They succeed more on the brand than advertising. But I don't think there's really any enthusiasm for the Wii in the marketplace. Even for the people I know who own one (and aren't just using it as a paperweight or dust trap, which seems to be the most common use), it's kinda just there. They play Super Smash or break out the Wii Fit sometimes, but they aren't exactly clamoring for a sequel.
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Aug 12, 2013 07:45
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:People know its a bad touch screen when they try and use it like their phone, or tablet, or heaven forbid a touchscreen all-in-one PC and it doesn't work like those do. That's all people need to know. Exactly, because the vast majority of people don't know or care what resistive means in connection with a touchscreen because they've only encountered capacitive ones. To them it'll just be a poor experience, not one that's been compromised deliberately to save money. I had a smartphone with a resistive touchscreen, it sucked. And I do think it's to save money: the iPad mini's screen is estimated to cost $80 by itself. Similar is the Kindle Fire HD at $64, and the Nexus 7 is around the same mark. They did the same on the battery: the capacity of the GamePad battery is 1500mAh, iPad mini and Kindle Fire HD are 4400mAh. If the Gamepad is being made for $80 total in components, even accounting for the lack of real rendering hardware, you can guess at how many corners have been cut. On the other hand those parts probably aren't going to get much cheaper, so the console won't get meaningfully cheaper to manufacture as it ages.
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Aug 12, 2013 13:58
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Maybe batteries and capacitive screens will be cheaper by the time Nintendo makes the WiiW.
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Aug 12, 2013 14:09
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greatn posted:Maybe batteries and capacitive screens will be cheaper by the time Nintendo makes the WiiW. Nah if sales keep up it'll be the WiiP.
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Aug 12, 2013 14:50
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RagnarokAngel posted:Oh sure it won't be lag free over the internet, but it can still directly connect to the console like the Wii U's gamepad does as well at local range. Gonna be so cool to be able to play PS4 RPGs and tactics games while I'm travelling for work.
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Aug 12, 2013 14:53
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Yesterday I saw a bunch of people in Boston walking around with shirts that said to ask them about the Wii U. The backs of the shirts said Wii U Guru. From what I saw, no one was talking to them. Never seen that sort of thing for a console before. I wonder if there's a certification process for being a Guru.
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Aug 12, 2013 14:55
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Well, basically, Nintendo had cut their marketing budget to basically nothing, so their marketing department is doing whatever the gently caress they can do for no money. Hiring glorified sign twirlers is basically in their wheelhouse right now.
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Aug 12, 2013 14:59
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