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KildarX posted:What is Darth Accountant and what book do I have to buy to read of his many glorious adventures of him making sure the Empires W2s are all in order? He's mentioned in passing in the first LOTF book. His story is that he was a Sith Lord who was never evil, never sought power for himself, had no designs on the galaxy at large and eventually died of old age surrounded by friends and family.
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Aug 9, 2013 01:48
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Metal Loaf posted:Isn't there a bit in Traviss's Order 66 book that tries to vindicate the Jedi purge, and then Scout (from Yoda: Dark Rendezvous) joins up with the Mandalorians because the Jedi hated her for having weak Force abilities? I remember there was a part where some clone troopers are about to shoot some Jedi younglings, the Jedi pull out their lightsabers to kill the clones, and Etain jumps in front of them to sacrifice herself so the precious clones will be able to live and kill the evil Jedi kids, because she knows the value of clone lives. I mean, if there's a passage that should convince anyone of what Traviss was up to, that should be it.
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Aug 9, 2013 01:53
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The thing is, other authors had made allusions to some of the issues concerning the clones without turning the Jedi into a bunch of lunatics. For example, there's the scene where the surgeon meets a despondent clone who's just lost a squadmate he thought of as his brother in MedStar, or the way Ostrander wrote it in the last Republic story arc, contrasting Quinlan Vos's distrust of the clones (because they were created for the sole purpose of killing and waging war) against another Jedi's optimism that they'll be able to help the clones integrate into peaceful society and realise their value as individuals once the war is done.
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Aug 9, 2013 01:58
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I can't stop laughing at the concept of Darth Accountant. God why do I find that so funny.
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Aug 9, 2013 03:44
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Conquistador posted:I can't stop laughing at the concept of Darth Accountant. Note that the story told of him dying surrounded by loved ones and friends... and his house is in the middle of a dark side haunted asteroid mine. That's sure a place I'd willingly visit. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Aug 9, 2013 |
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Aug 9, 2013 03:50
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Chairman Capone posted:^^^ The thing that confuses me about Traviss' Jedi-hating is that she hates the Jedi Order for using the clones to fight the Clone Wars (understandable in itself), but not Emperor Palpatine, who commissioned the clones and started the war in the first place. It's like getting mad at the overseers on a slave plantation for beating and terrorizing the slaves, but being cool with the plantation owner who's making the overseers beat and terrorize his slaves. 
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Aug 9, 2013 04:06
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I think part of that is her conception that the Jedi and the Sith are exactly the same. There's a scene in one of her books where one of her mouthpiece soldier characters says that to Luke and Luke's response is, "Yes, that's a good point." Actually thinking back on it now I think the military character who's talking says something like "The Mandalorians don't even have a separate word for Jedi and Sith," because everyone in her books uses the Mandalorians as a standard, no matter the context. It could also be because she's admitted she didn't really pay attention to the movies so she completely missed/forgot that part. She did make sure to let everyone know she stood up in the theater and cheered when she saw the Order 66 scene in ROTS, of course.
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Aug 9, 2013 04:20
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Conquistador posted:I can't stop laughing at the concept of Darth Accountant. If you want to read up, Darth Accountant's actual name is Darth Vectivus.
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Aug 9, 2013 07:55
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Powered Descent posted:If you want to read up, Darth Accountant's actual name is Darth Vectivus. This is unfair, this is the one character I really want to read the adventures of and yet all he does is get a few token mentions.  This continuity.
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Aug 9, 2013 16:00
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I admit despite the slight insanity of it, I'd totally read about a Sith who actually gets the whole 'covert evil' thing who doesn't eventually gently caress up/go insane.
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Aug 9, 2013 16:35
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SeanBeansShako posted:I admit despite the slight insanity of it, I'd totally read about a Sith who actually gets the whole 'covert evil' thing who doesn't eventually gently caress up/go insane. One of the many points Stover and Zahn very succinctly and insightfully make (Stover through Vergere, Zahn in Specter/Vision) is that it is simply impossible for that to be a thing. And if a Sith (Lumiya) talks about it, they're loving lying. And anybody who actually pushes that viewpoint simply does not get it. Like, for all the early talk about Jacen Solo being a new just Sith ruler or whatever, he descended remarkably quickly into full-on fear, hate, suffering, insanity and chaos and destruction. It's almost like Allston/Denning are trying to tell us something (Traviss be damned). VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Aug 9, 2013 |
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Aug 9, 2013 17:32
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I really liked what they were trying to do with Jacen. I would have liked a Sith Lord that ruled with an iron fist, trying to remake things in his image, using his law-that-can-change-law and whatnot that didn't go all mustache-twirlingly evil and killing indiscriminately at the drop of a hat.
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Aug 9, 2013 21:11
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I never really got farther than halfwayish through NJO (working on it now), but I really can't stand Jacen. At all. Kinda not surprised at all by what ends up happening to him. Does he eventually get better or will I pretty much always hate the character?
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Aug 9, 2013 21:14
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jivjov posted:I really liked what they were trying to do with Jacen. I would have liked a Sith Lord that ruled with an iron fist, trying to remake things in his image, using his law-that-can-change-law and whatnot that didn't go all mustache-twirlingly evil and killing indiscriminately at the drop of a hat. The point being that was never in the cards. There is no such thing as a Sith that's not ultimately a murderous batshit megalomaniac.
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Aug 9, 2013 21:16
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api call girl posted:The point being that was never in the cards. There is no such thing as a Sith that's not ultimately a murderous batshit megalomaniac. Was it ever actually confirmed that Vectivus wasn't actually a pretty decent guy as far as Sith go? I know "Lumiya and Vergere were liars" is the new canon, but I don't think the story of Vectivus himself was ever discounted.
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Aug 9, 2013 21:27
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jivjov posted:Was it ever actually confirmed that Vectivus wasn't actually a pretty decent guy as far as Sith go? I know "Lumiya and Vergere were liars" is the new canon, but I don't think the story of Vectivus himself was ever discounted. Re: Vergere. A pretty hearty laffo if you think you're going to get any generation of the Sith ever depicted to kill themselves just on the off chance they might potentially make somebody else a stronger Sith. Re: Vectivus. Look at the context. He puts his house in the bottom of an abandoned mining shaft in the middle of an abandoned asteroid mining facility. Said abandoned mining shaft infested with the power of the dark side much like the cave on Dagobah. This is supposedly where he lived and died, warmly, amidst family and friends. Yeah, family and friends he put in jars or stuffed and mounted on the loving wall. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Aug 9, 2013 |
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Aug 9, 2013 21:54
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jivjov posted:I really liked what they were trying to do with Jacen. I would have liked a Sith Lord that ruled with an iron fist, trying to remake things in his image, using his law-that-can-change-law and whatnot that didn't go all mustache-twirlingly evil and killing indiscriminately at the drop of a hat. So... Palpatine?
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Aug 9, 2013 22:12
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api call girl posted:Like, for all the early talk about Jacen Solo being a new just Sith ruler or whatever, he descended remarkably quickly into full-on fear, hate, suffering, insanity and chaos and destruction. It's almost like Allston/Denning are trying to tell us something (Traviss be damned). Way too fast for my taste. It would have been more ideal if they explored his relationship with Tenal Ka a bit more. I am finding that in recent star wars books there is not enough exploration of the human aspects of the sith. "Oh hey, I am a sith because I have no choice, here is my logic, rationale, ethics and morals behind my position." Something more on the lines of "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" should be a future theme in Star Wars books down the line.
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Aug 9, 2013 23:15
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Drone posted:I never really got farther than halfwayish through NJO (working on it now), but I really can't stand Jacen. At all. Kinda not surprised at all by what ends up happening to him. He is completely insufferable throughout the NJO up until Traitor and then goes back to being the same immediately afterward.
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Aug 9, 2013 23:37
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I think they had a workable character through the entire NJO, high point in Traitor, then pulled a 180 because editorial fiat and Troy Denning. Basically it was equivalent of comic book "twists" like Hal Jordan/Parallax or whatever the latest crap with Spider-Man is goons keep complaining about. I don't see how Denning or Allston are excused from their roles in that cluster.
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Aug 11, 2013 22:32
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Drone posted:I never really got farther than halfwayish through NJO (working on it now), but I really can't stand Jacen. At all. Kinda not surprised at all by what ends up happening to him. Let us know what your opinion of Jacen is once you've finished Traitor. Immediately after, mind you; before the other authors gently caress with him again,
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Aug 11, 2013 23:10
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Ursine Asylum posted:Let us know what your opinion of Jacen is once you've finished Traitor. I'm only on Balance Point right now (getting distracted by other, better reading), so it'll probably be awhile. Gotta say that so far, the best praise I can lump on any of the NJO books is for James Luceno's Agents of Chaos duology, which I would describe as "competent."
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Aug 11, 2013 23:13
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Balance Point was the one I struggled on the most, it was just so loving boring.
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Aug 12, 2013 04:19
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I've been reading the (bizarre) early drafts of ANH and I just had a thought. Do you think that when the Falcon got to Yavin that they remember to take the stripped stormtrooper corpses out of the floor panels? Probably not with the attack going on. It's about time one of these fan edits put some jangly bone SFX in the ship during the Empire asteroid chase. edit: The Star Wars - 3rd Draft posted:Han stops before cell 2187 and yells something to Chewbacca, who covers his face as the young pirate blasts the door away with his laser pistol. When the smoke clears, Han looks in the cell and an expression of horror crosses his face. 
Ingmar terdman fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Aug 12, 2013 |
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Aug 12, 2013 09:38
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The hell is wrong with George Lucas, REALLY!
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Aug 12, 2013 12:48
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Metal Loaf posted:Isn't there a bit in Traviss's Order 66 book that tries to vindicate the Jedi purge, and then Scout (from Yoda: Dark Rendezvous) joins up with the Mandalorians because the Jedi hated her for having weak Force abilities? Just so i'm clear, thinking that the group of warrior monks might not be totally poo poo == 'Nazi-think', justifying genocide == good?
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Aug 12, 2013 14:14
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I think I played that Doom 3 level. But in all seriousness, what the gently caress. ANH succeeded in spite of having this guy doing the directing for it. Jesus christ. Drone posted:I'm only on Balance Point right now (getting distracted by other, better reading), so it'll probably be awhile. Gotta say that so far, the best praise I can lump on any of the NJO books is for James Luceno's Agents of Chaos duology, which I would describe as "competent." I honestly don't think you'll miss anything either important or not easily grokked by implication if you skip ahead to Star By Star. And that one, for all it's asinine girth, could probably be summed up fairly adroitly in a paragraph or less. Alliterate Addict fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Aug 12, 2013 |
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Aug 12, 2013 16:00
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I liked Star by Star  . But I think I've been so desensitized to the EU now that the only scale I use is "better or worse than the Dark Nest trilogy."
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Aug 12, 2013 16:47
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I need to post just a couple more snippets:Third Draft posted:(trench run, in this draft Red Squadron is Blue) Fourth Draft posted:(the Falcon has just been pulled into the Death Star and Vader is having it scanned)
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Aug 12, 2013 16:49
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I haven't read any EU stuff ever that has left me with a feeling of, "wow, I am -really- glad I read that." Except maybe Wraith Squadron.Silver Brushes posted:I need to post just a couple more snippets: And George Lucas's skills with writing dialogue haven't gotten any better in the last 40 years, either. "I HATE THEM." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBhR4QcBtE
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Aug 12, 2013 16:51
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Drone posted:I haven't read any EU stuff ever that has left me with a feeling of, "wow, I am -really- glad I read that." Except maybe Wraith Squadron. I think the only time I've felt was when I read the 20th anniversary edition of Heir to the Empire. They really need to let Zahn do the same thing for the rest of the Thrawn trilogy.
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Aug 12, 2013 16:55
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Drone posted:I haven't read any EU stuff ever that has left me with a feeling of, "wow, I am -really- glad I read that." Except maybe Wraith Squadron. I think you have to have a certain bent to enjoy some of the EU.
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Aug 12, 2013 18:47
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I finished the Thrawn trilogy last night, I have some squabbles but it was mostly pretty good stuff. I really liked Jade, Karrde and Thrawn. How do Specter of the Past and Visions of the Future compare to the trilogy? And the prequels? I look forward to reading them but I'm going to read some other random Star Wars stuff first. I just started the Agent of the Empire which is cool so far. Funny coincidence that it starts at Wayland. I've been on a real Star Wars tear lately and have moved on to the books. I read a handful when I was in elementary school so it's been a nice bit of nostalgia. I recently went to all of the used book stores in my area of MPLS, including the great and cluttered Uncle Hugo's Science Fiction Bookstore, and bought most of the Star Wars books that I'll have any interest in reading any time soon. The Courtship of Princess Leia, which was strangely the first thing that I read because I'm going to be running West End Games Star Wars RPG games and one of the players made a Dathomir witch character. I really enjoyed this book, loved all the witchy action. Dark Forces 1 and 3, Soldier for the Empire and Jedi Knight. I'm a huge fan of the games so I really enjoyed Soldier for the Empire, but I'm holding off on reading Jedi Knight until I get the second book. Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, The Last Command, Specter of the Past, Visions of the Future and Choices of One. I need to get Zahn's books between Future and Choices. The first eight X-Wing books, I'm going to start these soon once I get some fast reads out of the way. I, Jedi. I read this and reread Shadows of the Empire when I was in high school (25 now). I thought that Shadows of the Empire was poo poo but was really impressed by I, Jedi. I'm looking forward to reading this more than anything else. I plan on reading it after book 5 of the X-Wing series, going by order of release rather than in-universe chronology. Splinter of the Mind's Eye, this will be the next novel I read after some comics. Looks like a quick read after that Thrawn trilogy, whether it's any good or not. Han Solo at Star's End, Revenge and the Lost Legacy and Lando Calrissian and the Mindharp of Sharu. I think these should be some fun pulpy sci-fi candy. Volume One of Agent of the Empire and Dawn of the Jedi and Volumes One and Two of the At War with the Empire omnibuses. The five Tales books, Mos Eisley Cantina, Bounty Hunters, Jabba's Palace, Empire and New Republic. Looking forward to getting around to these short stories. Ambush at Corellia, Assault At Selonia and Shadowdown at Centerpoint, how are these? I don't have high hopes. Should I read them before Specter of the Past? I also got The Essential Atlas book which is super nice and comprehensive. It's more of a guide to the galaxy than just a map book. So, what am I missing? I'm mostly interested in the Rise of the Empire, Rebellion and New Republic eras. Minnesota Manatee fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Aug 12, 2013 |
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Aug 12, 2013 19:00
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Minnesota Manatee posted:So, what am I missing? The first Republic Commando book is kinda neat, I enjoyed the Han Solo trilogy a lot. I also enjoyed The Bounty Hunter Wars, but some people here think it sucked. The Young Adult Boba Fett novels aren't badly written and are even enjoyable if Boba Fett is a character you're into.
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Aug 12, 2013 19:08
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Chairman Capone posted:I mean, if there's a passage that should convince anyone of what Traviss was up to, that should be it. The classic one for me is her novelization of the Clone Wars 'movie'. If you've watched it, they have a droid that turns out to be a Confederacy spy. When he realises he is busted, the droid has his bodyguards open fire on Anakin and Ahsoka, who dispatch them before decapitating the droid. In the novel she changes it to a hot-blooded murder of an unarmed, surrendered opponent who had the gall to question the moral superiority of the Jedi and their cause. Her narrative is to shine a light on the hypocrisy of the Jedi and does so by attacking a straw man, i.e. behaviour that only happens in her novels. Other authors actually tackle the moral ambiguity of the Jedi much, much better than she does, and the EU is better off without her. It'd be bad enough if she had just wrote peripheral novels, but she also shat on the main continuity line too.
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Aug 12, 2013 19:18
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astr0man posted:I liked Star by Star That would do it. Star by Star was a lot of teenaged angsting the likes of which I haven't seen since Harry Potter Book 5. And also they were all sent to a planet in the middle of Yuzzhan Vong territory because nobody over the age of 20 was available, I guess? I feel like it was an attempt to get the narrative kicked over to the next generation of protaganists (and flubbed it, obviously, given every book after that point up through Crucible, which had to explicitly state it in an attempt to have someone canonically say "gently caress this we're out"), and then killed half of them off because it's NJO, and NJO kills people because how else would you get dramatic shock value? To be frank, thinking over this, I'm actually looking forward to the Disney retcon-- good or bad, Disney's pretty good about enforcing consistency in their IP. And as long they don't bring Travis and Denning back in it can only be better.
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Aug 12, 2013 19:28
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Minnesota Manatee posted:So, what am I missing? I'm mostly interested in the Rise of the Empire, Rebellion and New Republic eras. Seconding Crispin's Han Solo trilogy. Good fun. It seems you aren't interested in the Clone Wars, which is fair enough, but there are some good novels set in that period: Shatterpoint by Stover (Apocalypse Now with Mace Windu), the Cestus Deception by Steven Barnes (my favourite clone-realises-there's-more-to-life story), Yoda: Dark Rendezvous by Sean Stewart (Yoda warm and wise reaches out to Dooku to bring him home), Labyrinth of Evil by James Luceno (immediately before ROTS) and then the ROTS novelisation by Stover is IMO one of the best SW novels there is. Rise of the Empire: Dark Lord; The Rise of Darth Vader takes whiney-bitch Vader from the end of ROTS and turns him into the badass we love. Labyrinth of Evil, ROTS, and Dark Lord make a pretty good informal trilogy. Rebellion era: you might enjoy Death Star by Steve Perry. A bunch of normal people wind up in jobs on the station and slowly learn that it's a big evil genocide machine. New Republic: Matthew Stover's Luke Skywalker and the Shadown of Mindor is a cool "and that's why I resigned from the military" story. With Shatterpoint and ROTS it's a pretty cool very loose thematic trilogy about why Luke is more awesome than his dad ever was. quote:The five Tales books, Mos Eisley Cantina, Bounty Hunters, Jabba's Palace, Empire and New Republic. Looking forward to getting around to these short stories. Let us know what you make of IG-88's story. quote:Ambush at Corellia, Assault At Selonia and Shadowdown at Centerpoint, how are these? I don't have high hopes. Should I read them before Specter of the Past? They're bad and you don't miss anything by not reading them at all. quote:Splinter of the Mind's Eye, this will be the next novel I read after some comics. Looks like a quick read after that Thrawn trilogy, whether it's any good or not. I enjoyed it. Bear in mind it's from 1978 (and written by the guy who ghost-wrote the ANH novelisation). quote:I, Jedi. I read this and reread Shadows of the Empire when I was in high school (25 now). I thought that Shadows of the Empire was poo poo but was really impressed by I, Jedi. I'm looking forward to reading this more than anything else. I plan on reading it after book 5 of the X-Wing series, going by order of release rather than in-universe chronology. You might enjoy Shadows more now IMO. I, Jedi I loved at the time because it was partly a fix of the KJA novels, but also suffered a bit from Stackpole being a weird author who loves monologues and dramatic chapter endings too much. You should also read Darth Plagueis by James Luceno. It's a love letter to both Palpatine as a character and the EU as a whole (just crammed full of refereces). Also I notice you mention lots of Zahn books but not Outbound Flight - that's one of my favourites of his. Specter/Vision are up there with his original trilogy too IMO.
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Aug 12, 2013 19:41
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Ursine Asylum posted:To be frank, thinking over this, I'm actually looking forward to the Disney retcon-- good or bad, Disney's pretty good about enforcing consistency in their IP. And as long they don't bring Travis and Denning back in it can only be better. I agree with this but also find it sad because I used to be a huge fan of the EU. I have every novel and comic book arranged in continuity order on my bookshelves. But everything has just been so horrible since they gave Denning the keys to the ongoing series projects. My ideal world would be to see Disney apply the scalple at the end of TUF, because I personally loved the NJO. But I would take peeling it back to the end of the GCW (i.e. Vision of the Future) if it meant we could assign LOTF and FOTJ to apocrypha. The latter I see as a realistic possibility because a) their possible wanting to use original cast members for cameos puts any such sequels after the events of the GCW and b) none of the events of the NR-era novels rock the boat in any way: the Empire eventually surrenders, Han & Leia marry and have kids, Luke rebuilds the Jedi. The only issue would be his marriage to Mara, which clashes with the prequels' celibate-monk picture of the Jedi. Hopefull they will ignore GL or else GL, now that he's re-married, will be happy to return to the love-conquers-evil theme of the OT, rather than the love-destroys-the-galaxy theme of the prequels.
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Aug 12, 2013 19:49
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DougieFFC posted:You should also read Darth Plagueis by James Luceno. It's a love letter to both Palpatine as a character and the EU as a whole (just crammed full of refereces). Oh man, yes. Read Darth Plagueis after you've read a lot of the others on your list, if only to get the neat effect of all the little callbacks and references.
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Aug 12, 2013 21:27
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I actually hated that about James Luceno's writing (so far) in NJO. I don't mind referencing previous events in the EU occasionally, but the way he was doing it in Agents of Chaos just rubbed me in totally the wrong way. The references served absolutely no point, and at several stages they went no farther than, "hey, this reminds me of that one time we <did obscure thing in Star Wars novel from the 1980s>. Good times."
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Aug 12, 2013 21:32
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