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BenRGamer posted:Quick question about rigging. Yes. But you don't get any of the VCR bonuses, you still need vehicle control skills, you still need to pay attention to it, and I think you're more vulnerable to counter-hacking. StringOfLetters fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Aug 14, 2013 |
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Aug 14, 2013 21:43
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I'm going to ask here since I can't find a thread for Shadowrun Returns, and I know all you guys probably play it: I accidentally turned on some feature that means I have to double-click every time I have to make a move or shoot order, and it makes the game a horrible drag to play. How did I do it, and how do I turn it off again?
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Aug 14, 2013 22:03
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Tias posted:I'm going to ask here since I can't find a thread for Shadowrun Returns, and I know all you guys probably play it: You go back into your options, which is in the menu you get to by clicking the floppy-disk button at the bottom of your menu-PDA thing. Also, here is the Shadowrun Returns thread.
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Aug 14, 2013 22:58
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StringOfLetters posted:Yes. Awesome. One of the characters I'm cooking up is a Street Samurai who uses drones for recon. You don't really need to do anything fancy for that other than the ability to fly a tiny drone. Who needs clairvoyance/clairaudience when you have an MCT Fly-Spy and a Commlink?
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Aug 14, 2013 23:59
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You could probably also pick up an autosoft for it (so it can fly itself), and just use the comlink to designate where it needs to go, and let the little dude do it's thing. This uses the Send Message matrix action. Can't find the exact rule for it, but a similar thing can be found under "Drone Gunnery" on page 183. Might be helpful if you aren't looking to spend points on a Pilot Aircraft skill.
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Aug 15, 2013 00:43
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OB_Juan posted:You could probably also pick up an autosoft for it (so it can fly itself), and just use the comlink to designate where it needs to go, and let the little dude do it's thing. This uses the Send Message matrix action. Can't find the exact rule for it, but a similar thing can be found under "Drone Gunnery" on page 183. Might be helpful if you aren't looking to spend points on a Pilot Aircraft skill. I... actually can't find autosofts. In the pricing tables, I mean. I even looked in the index, it lists autosofts where it explains them, but nothing about where they're priced.
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Aug 15, 2013 02:28
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Autosofts have a price listed in this errata here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12034805/SRM5%20Hot%20Patch%20Errata%20v1.0.pdf Rating times 500 nuyen, availability is Rating times 2.
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Aug 15, 2013 02:52
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Vavrek posted:Autosofts have a price listed in this errata here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12034805/SRM5%20Hot%20Patch%20Errata%20v1.0.pdf Thanks.
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Aug 15, 2013 03:01
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With Technomancers, isn't the ability to have Charisma rating of registered spirits that cost zero money to bind a factor? A lot of their abilities are supposed to be impossible, and are super not common knowledge too. Powers like Gremlins, Cookie, or Electron Storm don't cause OS. Nor do they give warnings to the user. It just happens as pure out of the blue WTF? Resonance Veil also seems pretty good, since you can Resonance Veil a spider to think that everything is normal even though you are sitting there rifling through all the files in the place. Get two hits on Puppeteer and you dumpshock someone. No OS, no notification, just dumpshocked out of nowhere. Transcendent Grid and Resonance Channel, using sprites, then Resonance Veil the spider to see another boring day at the office. Send a sprite in to Gremlin the environmental controls. Intercept the maintenance request and ride into the facility through the front doors. Do the job and leave. If they are not looking for a technomancer (and why would they? Technomancers are super rare. Even if they did suspect, odds are they don't even have a technomancer on tap to investigate), there is no evidence outside of the aura. All they've got is an electronic device that legitimately malfunctioned. It wasn't hacked or bricked, it just malfunctioned. Resonance Veil a gang's hacker, then hack them and puppeteer them into doing something illegal. Sit there and sip soykaf as you wait for the Lonestar paddy wagons to come for them, as they've got no idea they are running an OS and wouldn't think to reboot. Move on the gang after you've taken a nap and their decker is still in the pokey. Someone in a Resonance Veil getting electron stormed by a swarm of sprites seems like they would be pretty much boned too. The ability to hack without a deck also seems like it would be pretty useful. There is zero evidence that the hacker is a hacker. Nor can they stop the hacker from hacking short of putting them in a faraday cage, and who randomly does that? If Vader was standing there gloating to Leia, and she cocked her head and dumpshocked the rigger right out of the interrigation drone, hopped inside it, and gave him the business, I guess that would seem pretty good? I dunno, they sort of look like Wizards done right. Not better, and maybe a bit worse by the numbers, but they have a mystical X-Factor that a non-rear end in a top hat GM will let them use to their advantage. Especially in a game of Shadowrun where it isn't supposed to be a Home Invasion Robbery Simulator with cyberware.
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Aug 15, 2013 03:18
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Cyclomatic posted:With Technomancers, isn't the ability to have Charisma rating of registered spirits that cost zero money to bind a factor? A lot of their abilities are supposed to be impossible, and are super not common knowledge too. 1. Sprites are a factor in technomancer's favor, but they still cost both in-game and table time. Time is not free or infinite. 2. The book is utterly silent on how noticeable Resonance powers are except that you can spot sprites so you may want to keep them on standby (which costs a service). If it works like magic, Resonance powers are extremely noticeable and 90% of your suggested uses ("no notification") will not work at all. 3. A rating 6 jammer is very affordable and unless a technomancer has the Noise-reducing complex form or submerged at least once, it is an automatic no-save stop to a technomancer's ability to hack even if there's no other ambient source of Noise.
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Aug 15, 2013 04:43
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Cyclomatic posted:The ability to hack without a deck also seems like it would be pretty useful. There is zero evidence that the hacker is a hacker. Nor can they stop the hacker from hacking short of putting them in a faraday cage, and who randomly does that? If Vader was standing there gloating to Leia, and she cocked her head and dumpshocked the rigger right out of the interrigation drone, hopped inside it, and gave him the business, I guess that would seem pretty good? Just a few days ago, out in the Real World, I went through an airport security check that involved taking my shoes off, walking through a full-body imaging scanner and, the officers not satisfied with merely that, a pat-down search. All in the name of the achingly small chance I, out of millions of travelers, might be The Guy That Tries Something Stupid. In the crime-happy dystopia of tomorrow, everything like that is jacked to 11. I can totally see obtrusive security measures being used to ward against even the possibility that someone is a Technomancer in a high-security area. Especially since the fluff continues to bang home the point that Technomancers aren't just mysterious, they're scary mysterious.
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Aug 15, 2013 05:15
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I notice the Medkit and Autodoc section (pg208) is the only place that mention you can default first aid using intuition -1 + rating. I'm not sure if this is a relic of old rule that the editors forgot to delete because it would mean a player with 5 intuition with a R6 medkit can roll 10 dice in place of the first aid skill.
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Aug 15, 2013 05:41
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Conskill posted:Just a few days ago, out in the Real World, I went through an airport security check that involved taking my shoes off, walking through a full-body imaging scanner and, the officers not satisfied with merely that, a pat-down search. All in the name of the achingly small chance I, out of millions of travelers, might be The Guy That Tries Something Stupid. Actually, I'm pretty sure that's why technomancers are seen as so terrifying, or at least one of the big reasons: There IS no way to spot them. I'd have to read through the book again but, last I checked, there's no way to pick a technomancer out from a crowd. No way, at all. Corps like MCT have such a high bounty on technomancers because they have no way of easily filtering them out and need to rely on bounty hunters.
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Aug 15, 2013 06:26
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ProfessorCirno posted:Actually, I'm pretty sure that's why technomancers are seen as so terrifying, or at least one of the big reasons: There IS no way to spot them. I'd have to read through the book again but, last I checked, there's no way to pick a technomancer out from a crowd. No way, at all. Corps like MCT have such a high bounty on technomancers because they have no way of easily filtering them out and need to rely on bounty hunters. 5 hits on an assensing test.
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Aug 15, 2013 07:21
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Gobbeldygook posted:5 hits on an assensing test. Which would require an average of between 15-18 in your dice pool
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Aug 15, 2013 07:25
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ProfessorCirno posted:Which would require an average of between 15-18 in your dice pool Nope, much lower. Yes, the expected number of hits on 15 dice is 5, but chances that someone, over the course of time, roles sufficient assensing hits with less dice are a lot higher than you make them out (I'm too lazy to go over the binomial distrubtion atm). And, this person now has valuable information regarding you. Is that something you are ok with?
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Aug 15, 2013 08:54
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If the GM is letting random mages get 5 hits on you, they are being a complete rear end in a top hat. Also, IF a corp mage gets 5 hits, the technomancer is going to kill them ASAP. So if the GM is letting them get 5 hits on you and not doing it in a circumstance that is a 'complication' then they are also being a complete rear end in a top hat. Mages also can't read Resonance Signatures, only Auras. It takes a Technomancer to find evidence of a Technomancer's activity, and Technomancers are the mages of mages. Corps just won't have one on tap for random investigations unless the GM is being an rear end in a top hat. Since they are likely a test subject instead of a mere wage slave, it is even more unlikely that they'd let the Technomancer out of their hole to investigate since that invites escape (or worse, extraction by the Shadowrunners who already have one Technomancer and have successfully breached the corp before). In a game about stealth, Technomancers are basically the hardest character to detect, giving them the most license to use their abilities. An rear end in a top hat GM can make Shadowrun unplayable for any character ever. Which isn't a system problem, but a GM problem. edit: also, mages generally don't man checkpoints in Shadowrun. They are too rare for that. You are dealing with a situation where a secure facility might have a mage and a spider somewhere on the premise, and they will come investigate IF the runners give them a reason to. If you take a plane trip, a mage isn't going to be at every metal detector in a TSA outfit. Cyclomatic fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Aug 15, 2013 |
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Aug 15, 2013 09:51
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There would probably be wards at major security checkpoints and one mage doing astral security for the entire airport. That mage would also be one of the highest paid people working there.
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Aug 15, 2013 11:32
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Bigass Moth posted:There would probably be wards at major security checkpoints and one mage doing astral security for the entire airport. That mage would also be one of the highest paid people working there. Not to mention a bevy of watcher spirits and bound spirits performing security services. A major security outfit isn't going to have a strict combat mage on staff. 'Runners are likely going to encounter a detection magic specialist who can give them some serious trouble, especially working in concert with gun-toting guards.
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Aug 15, 2013 13:23
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Gobbeldygook posted:1. Sprites are a factor in technomancer's favor, but they still cost both in-game and table time. Time is not free or infinite. 1. I like to compile/register sprites in the background while other people(mostly the mage) are doing their legwork(whatever wiz-biz he's into) pre-run. Usually ends up with plenty of time to sleep off 2. Probably depends on GM/situation. Puppeteer is drat good, visible or not. 3. Jammers are good, and bone hackers generally. They may inconvenience your own people too, however, and are probably not on all the time. Jammers are the anti-vehicular planters of the matrix world.
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Aug 15, 2013 13:56
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Nyaa posted:I notice the Medkit and Autodoc section (pg208) is the only place that mention you can default first aid using intuition -1 + rating. I'm not sure if this is a relic of old rule that the editors forgot to delete because it would mean a player with 5 intuition with a R6 medkit can roll 10 dice in place of the first aid skill. If you simply turn on that rating 6 medkit next to a person who needs it (complex action) and walk away, the medkit makes first aid checks with 12 dice (Rating x 2). So why would you use up actions in your combat turn, when the medkit will just do it for you?
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Aug 15, 2013 14:15
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Very much like how even the most basic commlink has incredibly advanced functionality, a medkit has Robert Picardo telling you how and what to suture, etc. A Rating 6 medkit is professional grade emergency equipment and a character with decent wherewithal (Intuition) can figure out how to use it effectively. Bear in mind a character with strong Intuition and a First Aid skill will perform much better with the supplies a strong medkit will offer and will out-perform the emergency system working on its own. A new ex-Doc Wagon character, for example, could easily achieve a dice pool somewhere in the range of 14-18+ using a Rating 6 medkit.
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Aug 15, 2013 14:28
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ProfessorCirno posted:Actually, I'm pretty sure that's why technomancers are seen as so terrifying, or at least one of the big reasons: There IS no way to spot them. I'd have to read through the book again but, last I checked, there's no way to pick a technomancer out from a crowd. No way, at all. Corps like MCT have such a high bounty on technomancers because they have no way of easily filtering them out and need to rely on bounty hunters. Why do you assume that'd make the corporations less paranoid about them? They're so easy to miss that anyone could be a Technomancer, just like in the real-life example anyone could be the terrorist. The only way to be sure is to treat everyone as a threat, hence obtrusive security measures today that would be at least mirrored, though probably greatly expanded, in the Evil Capitalist Dystopia of Tomorrow. Cyclomatic posted:edit: also, mages generally don't man checkpoints in Shadowrun. They are too rare for that. You are dealing with a situation where a secure facility might have a mage and a spider somewhere on the premise, and they will come investigate IF the runners give them a reason to. If you take a plane trip, a mage isn't going to be at every metal detector in a TSA outfit. There'd probably be an astrally perceiving something at every checkpoint, bolstered by two things: 1) Checkpoints are probably even more hellish and slow than today to allow for added security (see previous Dystopia of Tomorrow comment). If magical somethingsomething is a threat, checkpoints would be rolled back until security can be achieved. 2) 1% of the population, the percentage routinely cited, is a lot of people to be Awakened. My parents' sleepy little town of 1,400 people would have over a dozen on hand. If you live in a major city you probably walk by one every few minutes. Being Awakened is a rare physical trait, but there are more than enough people in the world that it's still tens of millions of people who can astrally perceive.
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Aug 15, 2013 15:53
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Gobbeldygook posted:2. The book is utterly silent on how noticeable Resonance powers are except that you can spot sprites so you may want to keep them on standby (which costs a service). If it works like magic, Resonance powers are extremely noticeable and 90% of your suggested uses ("no notification") will not work at all. Things that you can notice have rules that explain how they are noticed. i.e. spell casting or matrix actions. Since it isn't an attack or sleaze action, if you just take the rules as presented, it seems pretty obvious that it is the best of both worlds from Attack and Sleaze, in that an Attack action specifically states that on success the target becomes aware that they were hacked, and on a failed sleaze they get a mark on you and alerts the owner. Either Technomancers are completely awful because everything they do is blatantly obvious which is objectively worse than matrix actions and completely inconsistent with matrix actions, or they are different but mostly equal to Deckers because they are somewhat disadvantaged by the numbers but they can be more subtle in performing those actions. I think an expanded list of Complex forms would help them separate themselves from deckers though. Resonance Veil is a game changer. Even something like Static veil is a big deal because it lets you snoop and trace someone, and then stay connected and wait for as long as you want while a normal decker would have to reboot and lose the snoop and trace. Or you can cookie someone with a sprite. They can do things that deckers just can't. It just seems like people are hell bent on declaring Technomancers as awful. If you watch an infomercial, you can see that if someone tries hard enough they can make a screwdriver seem like the most useless and impractical tool to ever exist.
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Aug 15, 2013 16:36
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Conskill posted:Why do you assume that'd make the corporations less paranoid about them? They're so easy to miss that anyone could be a Technomancer, just like in the real-life example anyone could be the terrorist. The only way to be sure is to treat everyone as a threat, hence obtrusive security measures today that would be at least mirrored, though probably greatly expanded, in the Evil Capitalist Dystopia of Tomorrow. Players might as well just shoot themselves in the head, because it is literally making it impossible for them to do anything. The technomancer isn't boned by what you describe, everyone is boned and boned harder. The Decker will get arrested because their illegal deck is found by the omnipresent oppressive searches. The Street Samurai will get arrested because of their illegal cyberware, the mage will get arrested for their illegal charms and spells, the face will get arrested because they have a pistol. Security measures good enough to easily catch a technomancer are security measures that completely gently caress players over beyond anything that is reasonable. Unless the GM is specifically persecuting technomancers, which is possible if the GM is acting like this in the first place. If everyone is being hyper vigilant, completely competent, and sparing no expense, you are not playing Shadowrun. Nor are you playing a game that has *anything* to do with human nature.
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Aug 15, 2013 16:47
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The thing to remember about Shadowrun is it's the Capitalist dystopia future. 99% of the time the security to thwart stuff like technomancers isn't going to be cost effective to implement so they'll just cough up the money to deal with the damages instead of spending twice as much money to prevent the problem. Now obviously that doesn't apply if we're talking something like Corp HQ or an international airport, but that's the kind of thing that should feel impossible to do a run on.
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Aug 15, 2013 16:56
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Conskill posted:Why do you assume that'd make the corporations less paranoid about them? They're so easy to miss that anyone could be a Technomancer, just like in the real-life example anyone could be the terrorist. The only way to be sure is to treat everyone as a threat, hence obtrusive security measures today that would be at least mirrored, though probably greatly expanded, in the Evil Capitalist Dystopia of Tomorrow. I didn't say it'd make the corporations less paranoid. I said that's WHY people are so scared of them. Misandu posted:The thing to remember about Shadowrun is it's the Capitalist dystopia future. 99% of the time the security to thwart stuff like technomancers isn't going to be cost effective to implement so they'll just cough up the money to deal with the damages instead of spending twice as much money to prevent the problem. Now obviously that doesn't apply if we're talking something like Corp HQ or an international airport, but that's the kind of thing that should feel impossible to do a run on. I think the real thing people are forgetting is this: The thing to remember about Shadowrun is that Shadowrunners exist. If you make your game set in such a way that Shadowrunners cannot exist you are very literally and objectively playing the game incorrectly.
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Aug 15, 2013 17:10
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ProfessorCirno posted:If you make your game set in such a way that Shadowrunners cannot exist you are very literally and objectively playing the game incorrectly. A friend of mine, who shall go nameless unless he wants to take credit for this one, had an argument with me awhile ago. He argued that the Hacker should always have an intrinsically important role in the group, even if the group has been dropped off in the African brush. My position was that a good GM doesn't drop a Hacker into the African brush unless making him useless is exactly where the story is supposed to go. Airports and bigger fish (like Zero Zones) should be immensely unfriendly to Shadowrunners, but the thing is that it doesn't necessarily follow in theme that Shadowrunners should be waltzing through a commercial flight or taking on a Zero Zone without serious, game-altering advantages. If being SINless and loaded to the gills with illegal and unregistered cyberware is easy, there's no game to be had.
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Aug 15, 2013 17:25
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I'm fine with "hard." It's when "impossible" is laid out that there's a problem. I mean there's threads elswhere that people make the argument that Shadowrun would be fine if it didn't have Runners at all because it hurts their verisimilitude.
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Aug 15, 2013 17:27
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Basically gently caress the mirrorshades approach, if I want a troll that dual-wields Krime Cannons that's my right.
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Aug 15, 2013 17:45
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I'm not sure why corps would be scared of technomancers if practical, cost-effective security measures to detect them exist.
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Aug 15, 2013 18:20
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So, has anyone tried to make a new version of Mr Lucky - a human focused first and foremost on Edge, and probably with high attributes and skills, but no magic and little to no 'ware? I remember it being a very niche thing in SR4, but with Edge being better, I'm wondering how it works now.
ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Aug 15, 2013 |
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Aug 15, 2013 18:53
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ProfessorCirno posted:So, has anyone tried to make a new version of Mr Lucky - a human focused first and foremost on Edge, and probably with high attributes and skills, but no magic and little to no edge? I remember it being a very niche thing in SR4, but with Edge being better, I'm wondering how it works now. Did you mean skills here?
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Aug 15, 2013 18:56
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Er, meant 'ware. Edited! The whole point is a dude who's otherwise very mundane save for the massive amount of Edge that would more or less translate to this one completely normal dude in a group of wizards and robots who somehow manages to pull off the craziest poo poo.
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Aug 15, 2013 18:57
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Not hard, Attributes A, Skills B race C, Resources D.
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Aug 15, 2013 20:08
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ProfessorCirno posted:Er, meant 'ware. Edited! The whole point is a dude who's otherwise very mundane save for the massive amount of Edge that would more or less translate to this one completely normal dude in a group of wizards and robots who somehow manages to pull off the craziest poo poo. Yeah, DirtyCajun did, named him "Mr. Clean" - the guy is basically a superspy with crazy edge, dresses up as a janitor to get into places. Here is what you can do: Skills A Attributes B Metatype C (Human) Resources D Magic E Edge is 7/7, Skills are 46 + 1 group at 6 and 1 group at 4. 20 Attribute points Body: 3/6 Agi: 6/6 Rea: 4/6 str: 1/6 Wil: 3/6 Log: 4/6 Int: 4/6 Cha: 3/6 Edge: 7/7 Magic: 0 Stealth Group 6 X Group 4 Monowhip 6 Archery 6 Etiquette 6 Negotiation 6 First Aid 6 Gymnastics 6 10 skill points left. Light Crossbow with Injection Bolts, Narcojet/Gamma-Scopolamine (can't start with Gamma, but you should buy it!) Qualities: Flavor to Taste 8 to 10 times per session (remember, you get Edge back where in SR5 fairly frequently) you can add 7 dice to a task and remove its limit. You can spend some of your starting karma buying a bunch of skills at rank 1, add 3 or 4 (5 dice total) and then add edge (12 dice total) to reliably (75% chance) hit a TN of 4 (hard check). In the things you are GOOD at, you can throw 6+6+7, or 19 dice, at them, and this is before specializations etc. Amusingly 19 dice with exploding 6s should give you about a 79% chance of getting a TN of 6 (V.Hard). You can get this pool higher and start to hit really absurd TNs, but after a while it is pointless; the thing you are attacking is dead. Case in point, 6 successes on a monowhip attack results in 16P if you beat them by 4. They are probably not going to live through that. The Gamma-Scopolamine injection bolt automatically renders the target paralyzed unless they have a gigantic reaction (9+ and they score 3+ hits on the toxin resistance test). Even if they are not paralyzed, they just took 9 boxes of stun from it alone. Nacrojet does not paralyze, but with a Power 15(!) stun it instantly knocks unconscious every threat in the game. The only defense is natural Dwarven resistance, the Immunity quality (for 1 dose per 6 hours) and Toxin Extractors which add their rating. Plus the actual bolt itself does damage, 5P/-1AP for a light crossbow up to 10P/-3AP for a heavy.
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Aug 15, 2013 20:14
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As a side note, the injection arrow has to deal at least 1 box of damage (P or S) after the damage resistance test to go off. A heavily armored and bodied Street Sam (a player at my table has a combined total of 37 on resistance tests) is getting like 12 hits on that, so they have a good chance to just soak the entire arrow and not get stuck. But if even a box of damage gets through, its 15 stun from a nacrojet and it is significantly harder to resist that with just augmented body. Edit: I believe they are getting the armor through the silliness of having 2 cyber feet and 1 cyber hand with armor rating 3, and 1 real cyberarm for shooting guns/monowhipping people. Then orthoskin or dermal + bone lacing + actual armor and whatever else. Point is its silly how armored up 'ware characters can get - you can shrug off stupidly high damage, and almost always turn it into Stun instead of Physical. Laphroaig fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Aug 15, 2013 |
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Aug 15, 2013 20:19
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Laphroaig posted:As a side note, the injection arrow has to deal at least 1 box of damage (P or S) after the damage resistance test to go off. A heavily armored and bodied Street Sam (a player at my table has a combined total of 37 on resistance tests) is getting like 12 hits on that, so they have a good chance to just soak the entire arrow and not get stuck. But if even a box of damage gets through, its 15 stun from a nacrojet and it is significantly harder to resist that with just augmented body. Or you could just use an injection round (p.434) in a dart pistol (p.429) and achieve the same effect by scoring three net hits against a target using your heavy pistol skill, which means you can stun-out someone with 37+ dice pretty easily. It seems like such an oversight, but apparently so long as you get a decent number of hits you can get that needle in a weak joint or something.
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Aug 15, 2013 21:00
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PierreTheMime posted:Or you could just use an injection round (p.434) in a dart pistol (p.429) and achieve the same effect by scoring three net hits against a target using your heavy pistol skill, which means you can stun-out someone with 37+ dice pretty easily. It seems like such an oversight, but apparently so long as you get a decent number of hits you can get that needle in a weak joint or something. Sadly (and stupidly) the dart guns require Exotic Ranged Weapon skills. But tasers don't? They really should eliminate the exotic skills.
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Aug 15, 2013 21:23
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Bigass Moth posted:Sadly (and stupidly) the dart guns require Exotic Ranged Weapon skills. But tasers don't? They really should eliminate the exotic skills. Ah, I misread it. It uses Heavy Pistol for its range, not the skill. Still, negating all armor for the cost of a special skill seems pretty potent.
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Aug 15, 2013 21:38
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