|
crankdatbatman posted:Yeah, his character has a lot of depth. I've been reading Under the Dome recently, and while it's a great read, many of the main characters are just too one dimensional. There is literally nothing to like about Jim Rennie as a person, to the point where I don't see how the townfolk put up with him. Even before the community's world comes crashing down, he's an unbelievable rear end in a top hat. Oh, and he killed his wife. Meanwhile Barbara is just the classic golden boy. Rusty's about the same way. Many of the other characters, like Sammy Bushey, Andy Sanders, and Pete Randolph have much more depth, so it's not everyone. Just really the tip top main characters.
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 01:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 22:03 |
|
|
syscall girl posted:Also I'd highly recommend reading Jerusalem's Lot. It's a short in the form of a series of letters which is a pretty weird format but it gave me the ole goosebumps so I thought it worked. There is another one (also in Night Shift) called One For the Road that's a good prequel to the actual 'Salem's Lot novel. Strange (or alternative rather) formats like that can be really great, they can be super effective for horror because they give a strange sense of disconnect. That sounds really dumb I suppose, but it makes sense to me. Jerusalem's Lot is part of the Night Shift then? I'll have to get it on my kindle, and if I like it I'll get Salem's lot for sure. Thank you very much for the suggestions.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 02:25
|
|
|
crankdatbatman posted:My bad. Admittedly I haven't seen or read either. I'm just going by what I've heard about them. No problem. I've heard the same thing before. Those people are dumb and have no comprehension of what they see. Basically, in the short story of the Mist, either the mist itself was: a) A temporary thing b) a limited area thing c) would basically cover the world and make things hopeless. The ending was ambiguous and didn't say either. Because of that, it gave the idea that the characters would either: a) give up hope and kill themselves eventually b) be killed by the monsters in the mist c) find a place with no mist, or "hope" Darabont didn't want to end the movie ambiguously to allow for a sequel or DTV sequel not done by him to continue the story, so he picked a definitive ending. He chose (a) from the first group combined with (a) from the second group as a kind of gut punch. The story was about covering how different people react to horrible situations - refusing to believe, turning to God, turning to superstition, bravado, suicide, etc. The movie took those philosophies slightly further and provided a reason for the final choice (in the movie, he's more likely to give up hope because he found out his wife was dead, in the book, he never could get close enough to find out, so could still keep up a veneer of false hope for her) as well. And seemed to be making a statement on maintaining hope or not. The army didn't do anything in the movie. The Mist was temporary and moved on, and they just burned whatever they saw that was left over, out of the Mist.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 03:56
|
|
|
EmmyOk posted:Strange (or alternative rather) formats like that can be really great, they can be super effective for horror because they give a strange sense of disconnect. That sounds really dumb I suppose, but it makes sense to me. Jerusalem's Lot is part of the Night Shift then? I'll have to get it on my kindle, and if I like it I'll get Salem's lot for sure. Thank you very much for the suggestions. Jerusalem's Lot is a kind of Lovecraftian story and not about vampires - the other is a vampire story. Or vice versa. I kind of get them mixed up. But they both tie into Salem's Lot in a way. I like the Night Flier and Popsy pairing for vampire short stories as well.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 03:58
|
|
|
Jerusalem's Lot has vampires in it for one scene but yeah, its mostly about a creature from outside of time and space.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 04:05
|
|
|
muscles like this? posted:Jerusalem's Lot has vampires in it for one scene but yeah, its mostly about a creature from outside of time and space. Maybe I'm just stupid, but I didn't really see any connection to Salem's Lot to Jerusalem's Lot outside of location and a vague 'something is historically wrong about this area' thing. Was there more to it? I read the short story last year while reading Salem's Lot years ago, so I may have missed out on a reference or two. Also that was a great explanation of the Mist's ending Darko. I'm convinced.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 04:48
|
|
|
crankdatbatman posted:Maybe I'm just stupid, but I didn't really see any connection to Salem's Lot to Jerusalem's Lot outside of location and a vague 'something is historically wrong about this area' thing. Was there more to it? I read the short story last year while reading Salem's Lot years ago, so I may have missed out on a reference or two. He wrote the short story, then decided to write the story of how the town came to be deserted. Then he decided he wanted to set it in the modern day.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 04:53
|
|
|
Jerusalem's Lot, iirc, really made an impression on me because it managed to make the evil seem so old and tenacious. Old letters talking about old people who discover something horrendous from long before their own time, and the impression that it might still be out there now. (spoilering it because some posters haven't read it yet and i want them to be as freaked out as I was).
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 04:53
|
|
|
Pheeets posted:Jerusalem's Lot, iirc, really made an impression on me because it managed to make the evil seem so old and tenacious. Old letters talking about old people who discover something horrendous from long before their own time, and the impression that it might still be out there now. Stephen King's earlier works made a lot more sense once I absorbed Lovecraft.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 05:11
|
|
|
crankdatbatman posted:Maybe I'm just stupid, but I didn't really see any connection to Salem's Lot to Jerusalem's Lot outside of location and a vague 'something is historically wrong about this area' thing. Was there more to it? I read the short story last year while reading Salem's Lot years ago, so I may have missed out on a reference or two. The town, Jerusalem's Lot, has been connected to evil for a long time. The reason the master vampire decided to move to the town in the events of Salem's Lot was due to that evil already being around, as described in the story Jerusalem's Lot. The evil cult who's church was involved seemed to have a habit of trying to get in contact with other evil cultists, presumably how the vampire came to know about it. There is something of an implication that locations in the story would later become the locations of prominent things in the novel.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 05:16
|
|
|
rypakal posted:He wrote the short story, then decided to write the story of how the town came to be deserted. Then he decided he wanted to set it in the modern day. If I remember correctly he did write Jerusalem's Lot in college (wasn't published until Night Shift), but that is not why he wrote 'salem's Lot. His original idea for the book was 'what if Dracula came to modern NYC', but his wife said just make it small town in Maine. The book was original called Second Coming and the town wasn't even called 'salem's Lot, it was something that starts with a 'M' (I can't remember right now). When he originally wrote the short story of Jerusalem's Lot it was in Vermont not Maine. For some reason (I think because it made a better title) he changed the name of the town (and book) to 'salem's Lot. The original town name that started with a 'M' is mentioned in 'salem's Lot (by Ben or Matt) as a town that was abandoned in Vermont. So basically he just switched the names, and moved the short story (when it was released in Night Shift) to Maine also. I hope I got that right.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 15:27
|
|
|
Another interesting connection I just learned reading Danse Macabre are the rats in Salem's Lot and in the titular story of Night Shift; King felt a bit self-conscious about the self-plagiarism thing. Also, there was a rats scene he wrote but cut, on the convincing advice of his editor. So as it stands, the rats in Salem's Lot are introduced but just end up being a kind of unfired Chekhov's gun.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 15:32
|
|
|
Anyone who wants to read any of the Lot stories or 'salem's lot get the Illustrated Edition (it only has a few photos in it). It has a preface and afterward from King, cut pages, and both of the short stories. I found it for $6 on eBay from a Goodwill place. Here found another one for $6.50: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Salems-Lot-Illustrated-Edition-Stephen-King-Good-Book-/400547792825?pt=US_Texbook_Education&hash=item5d428247b9 Well worth it. DirtyRobot posted:Another interesting connection I just learned reading Danse Macabre are the rats in Salem's Lot and in the titular story of Night Shift; King felt a bit self-conscious about the self-plagiarism thing. Also, there was a rats scene he wrote but cut, on the convincing advice of his editor. So as it stands, the rats in Salem's Lot are introduced but just end up being a kind of unfired Chekhov's gun. I just finished the Illustrated Edition of 'salem's Lot, and it has 50 pages of cut stuff. It does include the original rat scene that was cut and it has a different outcome for Father Callahan. Worth reading. Install Windows posted:The town, Jerusalem's Lot, has been connected to evil for a long time. The reason the master vampire decided to move to the town in the events of Salem's Lot was due to that evil already being around, as described in the story Jerusalem's Lot. The evil cult who's church was involved seemed to have a habit of trying to get in contact with other evil cultists, presumably how the vampire came to know about it. Hubert Mastern built the house for a reason in 'salem's Lot. Just like in one of the books that inspired him to write this book, Haunting of Hill House, King never reveals truly what is wrong with the town or the whole story of Mastern. He just gives you enough hints to make you curious and wishing you could research the town. I prefer when King takes that approach (I think it worked best for him in The Shining). If anyone has seen the awful remake of The Haunting (which is based on Haunting of Hill House) they know how revealing things can ruin a story. Watch Robert Wise's 1963 version where he reveals hardly anything (like in the book he never tells what is truly behind the door) and how much better it is. Edit: That said the book does tell you the Constable finds out Barlow's real name is Breichen. Later in book (one of the Lot chapters) it talks about how no one saw the smile on Marsten's face when he was burning correspondences from a man named Breichen right before he killed himself. He knew that Barlow was coming to the Lot. The child murders that are hinted on in the book could of been to help make the house evil enough to house Barlow or it was just for Marsten's own rites. One more thing it is curious how easy Barlow gives up the house in the book (I guess he had no choice). I think that points to the town being almost just as evil as the house. nate fisher fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Aug 14, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 15:44
|
|
|
I remember reading someone had an idea that at the end of the Mist film, the military was actually driving away from the mist because they had gone in and rescued who they could but 90% of the force had been almost totally destroyed by the monsters. So they were basically getting the hell out of Dodge. I'm sure it doesn't make any sense if I bothered to really consider it but I thought the idea was interesting at least.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 16:01
|
|
|
drat, you guys are really making me want to dust off Salem's Lot and give it a re-read. It really is one of the better King books, and his second to boot! Quite impressive. While we're all talking about Jerusalem's Lot, what's the consensus on the other Salem's Lot-related story in Night Shift, One For The Road? I remember liking it. Vampires in a blizzard. Creepy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 16:12
|
|
|
FreezingInferno posted:drat, you guys are really making me want to dust off Salem's Lot and give it a re-read. It really is one of the better King books, and his second to boot! Quite impressive. Is that the one with the little girl vampire who walked on top of the snow? Because that one freaked me the hell out.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 17:50
|
|
|
Your Gay Uncle posted:Is that the one with the little girl vampire who walked on top of the snow? Because that one freaked me the hell out. Yes it is. I would love to see a non-vampire focus sequel to 'salem's Lot. Maybe over the last 30 years people have moved back into town, and we get to see a new evil grow in the town.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2013 18:52
|
|
|
Your Gay Uncle posted:Is that the one with the little girl vampire who walked on top of the snow? Because that one freaked me the hell out. Nope. That was one of his short stories... "One for the Road." it was set in Jerusalem's Lot after the events of the book.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2013 00:40
|
|
|
FreezingInferno posted:what's the consensus on the other Salem's Lot-related story in Night Shift, One For The Road? I remember liking it. Vampires in a blizzard. Creepy. Your Gay Uncle posted:Is that the one with the little girl vampire who walked on top of the snow? Because that one freaked me the hell out. Edwardian posted:Nope. That was one of his short stories... "One for the Road." it was set in Jerusalem's Lot after the events of the book. Edwardian is confused. I've started reading NOS4A2 and I'm really digging it, it reminds me of goofy but scary King, old King.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2013 01:25
|
|
|
nate fisher posted:His original idea for the book was 'what if Dracula came to modern NYC', but his wife said just make it small town in Maine. I think I've finally solved the riddle. It isn't "write what you know" it's that Tabitha is keeping Steve in Maine for dark, eerie, possibly squamous purposes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2013 03:33
|
|
|
The Berzerker posted:Edwardian is confused. You're right. That's what I get for skimming the thread. I'm pondering picking up NOS4A2 on iBooks. Broken leg and corrective knee surgery coming up, so I'm going to have a lot of time to read. I'm re-reading "Black House," and finding that I really like it a bit more than I did the first time. King can certainly make you care for certain characters. Interestingly, I cared more for Henry than for Jack.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2013 03:42
|
|
|
syscall girl posted:I think I've finally solved the riddle. It isn't "write what you know" it's that Tabitha is keeping Steve in Maine for dark, eerie, possibly squamous purposes. His first book, The Long Walk, had a protagonist from Maine and started in Maine. So there.  Also, learning that he wrote that book as a freshman in college was a big  moment for me. I was happy to write a ten page paper when I was a freshman.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2013 05:20
|
|
|
Ugly In The Morning posted:His first book, The Long Walk, had a protagonist from Maine and started in Maine. So there. Stop that. This is a comedy forum. "Why did the dead baby cross the road, bitch?" On a more dreary note I had a lot of trouble padding out 50 page papers on poo poo I mostly didn't know much about by the time finals came around on 300 level courses. I could fill the hell out of a blue book somehow though. I guess I worked better under pressure.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2013 06:25
|
|
|
The Berzerker posted:I've started reading NOS4A2 and I'm really digging it, it reminds me of goofy but scary King, old King. I read it and I liked it. Joe Hill is a lot like reading just-before-Tommyknockers-era King. My favorite thing he's done, though, was probably the short story In The Tall Grass (with his father) as it would have fit right in Night Shift or something.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2013 15:37
|
|
|
Darko posted:I read it and I liked it. Joe Hill is a lot like reading just-before-Tommyknockers-era King. Are you saying that Joe is hooked on cocaine?
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2013 17:24
|
|
|
rypakal posted:Are you saying that Joe is hooked on cocaine? No, but...was King on coke while Joe was conceived?
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2013 20:26
|
|
|
Darko posted:No, but...was King on coke while Joe was conceived? Wikipedia says he was born in 1972, not sure when the big coke boom happened but I think it was quite a bit later than that and also SK would have been working as a poorly paid school teacher or in some kind of Lovecraftian rat factory.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2013 20:39
|
|
|
rypakal posted:Are you saying that Joe is hooked on cocaine? Obviously introduced to and enabled by his dad in the name of making sure his kid is the best writer he can be 
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2013 21:35
|
|
|
Bought Salem's lot on my kindle last night. I started reading it while on the bus to town this afternoon. I really liked his foreword (his 'on being 19' one is also sublime) about 'his' vampire story. It got me quite excited for the book. The bus journey was relatively short though, so I only reached the part where Ben first meets Susan.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 03:57
|
|
|
About all The Mist discussion. I posted two quotes a while ago which I think says just about everything about the ending. quote:I looked out the window to make sure it was gone and then opened the door. “What are you doing?” Amanda screamed, but I knew what I was doing. I like to think Ollie would have done exactly the same thing. I half-stepped, half-leaned out, and got the gun. Something came rapidly toward me, but I never saw it. I pulled back in and slammed the door shut. Amanda began to sob. Mrs. Reppler put an arm around her and comforted her briskly. Billy said, “Are we going home, Daddy?” “Big Bill, we're gonna try.” “Okay,” he said quietly. I checked the gun and then put it into the glove compartment. Ollie had reloaded it after the expedition to the drugstore. The rest of the shells had disappeared with him, but that was all right. He had fired at Mrs. Carmody, he had fired once at the clawed thing, and the gun had discharged once when it hit the ground. There were four of us in the Scout, but if push came right down to shove, I'd find some other way out for myself. quote:The Scout has enough gas to take us maybe another ninety miles. The alternative is to try to gas up here; there is an Exxon out on the service island, and although the power is off, I believe I could siphon some up from the tank. But Teriyaki Hairpiece fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Aug 16, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 16:28
|
|
|
cheerfullydrab posted:About all The Mist discussion. I posted two quotes a while ago which I think says just about everything about the ending. You left out a couple of important passages, including the "one final thing" that he ends the story with. First, there's this direct quote from the ending section: "It is, I suppose, what my father always frowningly called 'an Alfred Hitchcock ending,' by which he meant a conclusion in ambiguity that allowed the reader or viewer to make up his own mind about how things ended" After the last bit you quoted, he goes on to talk about the "one final thing": finding the radio in the Hojos and hearing a word on it. Then he says he's going to leave his journal in the HoJos, then the very last lines: "I'm really going to bed now. But first I'm going to kiss my son and whisper two words in his ear. Against the dreams that may come, you know Two words that sound quite a bit alike. One of them is Hartford. The other is hope" He doesn't really say he's going to do anything, he just thinks about the possibility as a back-up plan, and it's left up in the air. King very clearly tells us that the ending is ambiguous. If anything, the last lines show that the narrator is going to do his best to make it, even though he fears greatly that he won't. Pheeets fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Aug 16, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 20:01
|
|
|
So I recently finished reading Misery and had this weird moment while I was reading. During the scene where Paul was reading Annie's clipbook of all the obituary clippings I was overcome with this weird idea that the sequence of long and short illnesses described were actually morse code and there had to be a hidden message somewhere in there. I had to stop reading because it was on my mind and tried to decode the hidden message. Turns out it was nothing, or at least nothing I could make any sense of. Anyone else have a similar experience reading a King novel or have I just begun my decent into madness?
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 20:19
|
|
|
Pheeets posted:If anything, the last lines show that the narrator is going to do his best to make it, even though he fears greatly that he won't.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 21:30
|
|
|
In Under the Dome, did any of you catch the Desperation reference? Carolyn thinks about her potential future and dreams about riding across the country on a motorcycle. Thought that was kind of cool.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 05:18
|
|
|
Pheeets posted:After the last bit you quoted, he goes on to talk about the "one final thing": finding the radio in the Hojos and hearing a word on it. Then he says he's going to leave his journal in the HoJos, then the very last lines: I'm saying I really thought the ending was ambiguous and I really enjoyed that last line especially. But if you think about it, it isn't at all. I was wrong then and you are now. There's no way to get gas into that car without getting killed by the monsters. The first time I watched the movie I was upset at what I thought was a total bullshit ending. The more I've thought about it over the years the more I realize how true to the book it is.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 08:19
|
|
|
cheerfullydrab posted:See, I always enjoyed this, too. Also I thought it was ambiguous as well. But after like 20 years of reading this story, I realized that it actually isn't. There is simply no way he is going to be able to get gas in the car. He knows it. And he is planning to shoot everyone, then himself, when the car runs out of gas. He risks his own life when he doesn't have to solely to get the gun so that he has that out in the future. The movie just shows what is going to happen, happening.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 08:49
|
|
|
tliil posted:Bullshit, there's always hope. Like the hope that you die right away and aren't alive when the monsters start to eat you.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 09:05
|
|
|
tliil posted:Bullshit, there's always hope. Said by someone who doesn't understand real suffering.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 13:54
|
|
|
cheerfullydrab posted:See, I always enjoyed this, too. Also I thought it was ambiguous as well. But after like 20 years of reading this story, I realized that it actually isn't. There is simply no way he is going to be able to get gas in the car. He knows it. And he is planning to shoot everyone, then himself, when the car runs out of gas. He risks his own life when he doesn't have to solely to get the gun so that he has that out in the future. The movie just shows what is going to happen, happening. Nothing in what you quoted proves it is not ambiguous, just that their chances are very, very poor, because, well, it's a horror story about an evil mist filled with monsters, and that's how it goes. That's how stories work: for the first two acts, the deck gets increasingly stacked against the hero, before the climax where finally things get reversed. The ending of the Mist doesn't even the odds before fading to black, it just leaves things as pretty bad, then fades away. Things are looking pretty grim for our hero, but it's not a sure thing that he's toast. I mean, yeah, in "real life" he pretty much is, but that's true of most people in most stories. But you don't read the first two acts of a novel, going, "boy, this hero's really hosed! Geez, I'm like 80% through and things have just kept getting worse!" and then toss the novel out the window, because often things will get reversed in that final bit.* Doing the practical, strictly-by-the-odds thing is ignoring what the story is telling you. Yes, they're *probably* screwed. But it's not specifically a sure thing. The people in The Birds are *probably* screwed, too, but that ending is still ambiguous. Hitchcock could have filmed a few more scenes showing that humanity is actually totally screwed now because we can't go outside, but he very specifically didn't. That was an aesthetic choice. There's both more horror in the unknown but also more hope, a very slight "yeah, surely they'll die, but... what if they don't?" So if this were real life, should you bet on them? No. Of course not. But it's fiction. * Often, but not always. On one end of the spectrum, let's put, say, George R.R. Martin subverting things. Things look bleak for Robb. But things will turn out okay, right? No, they won't. If your put yourself in that situation, you're gonna get got. Because there's a certain realism in that subverts the traditional trope of the hero overcoming the odds. On the other end of the spectrum we'll put, I dunno, those old Adam West Batman cliffhangers. rypakal posted:Said by someone who doesn't understand real suffering. Okay, but hope in spite of impossible odds is still a thing in fiction. Literally every bad, horrific thing in the world that you could possibly imagine comes out of Pandora's box... but then hope comes last.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 14:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 22:03 |
|
|
Still working through NOS4A2 and I've noticed a bunch of King references. I'm only 3/4 through the book so I might be missing some, but I've noticed (spoilers for NOS4A2 and some King books): - Bing says "My life! For you!" to Manx, a reference to The Stand - Manx mentions the different doors his Wraith can find, including a door to Mid-World (reference to the Dark Tower) - When they try to locate Wayne's phone with GPS, there's a point on the map near Derry called "Pennywise Circus" (a reference to It) Have I missed any?
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 17:08
|
|