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CaptainRat
Apr 18, 2003

It seems the secret to your success is a combination of boundless energy and enthusiastic insolence...
I feel a bit silly asking about this, since my situation isn't terribly desperate. Basically I had a very small hospital bill ($50 bucks or so) that went to collections because I a) very depressed and incapable of handling my poo poo and b) was for some reason sure that it had been covered by insurance, and thus taken care of. I'm a lot better of financially and otherwise and recently ran a credit report. The debt was on the report under two different companies, one, updated in 2010, for $51 and one, updated in 2011, for $50. I'm 99% sure it's the same debt, and that the first company sold it to the second, but there's no other information and no contact info for either company, although I found them on Google pretty easily.

What I would like to know is if it's a bad idea to send a letter to both companies saying hey, it's me, can you send a statement/confirm you sold the debt to someone else so I can get this taken care of? (In nicer language, obviously, and with an indication that as soon as I receive a statement I would send a certified check.) It's pretty small potatoes in a financial sense, but I have no idea if I'm opening myself up to some greater liability. I haven't received any statements or bills or phone calls or anything in at least two years, so I have no idea how to go about paying them, since I presume they don't know where to find me; along those lines, I'd rather not provide my e-mail or phone number. Any ideas about whether this is a good, bad, or indifferent plan? (And apologies for the small scale of the problem.)

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AutoFool
Sep 28, 2004

I am the Power
So I recently decided to grow up and start becoming financially responsible by checking my credit score. While looking at my score I noticed that I still owned money to an old bank who had given me a credit line that I had maxed out and then promptly forgot about. The reason I forgot about it was because I got locked out of being able to log in to the bank to check how much I owed and all that 5 years ago. During that time I moved twice and was not able to update my address because I was locked out so I never received any collection letters or notices, and they never called my phone. I should note that my entire family banks with them and that if they had put an ounce of effort into finding me they could have started sending stuff to my parents house, or called since they had my number. So after remembering that I owned them money I decided to call them to see what the deal was. The credit report showed that I owned $992, and when I called the bank they told me my account was closed and had been charged off to their Consumer Lending and Default Management sector. I then called them and was told that I owed ~$1900, and then they asked if I could pay it in full or start making payments. I said I could start making monthly payments of $100. While talking to them I gave them the address to my parents house and I assume they will send me a notice which has more information in it, and with that notice I could send them debt verification letter.

If the worst comes to pass I will pay off the entire amount but I was wondering what the possibilities of me doing a "pay for delete" are as well as the chance of me reducing how much I need to pay, and how I would get started on that. The main reason I am asking is because I am not sure if I am technically still dealing with the OC or if the Consumer Lending and Default Management is just their own in house Debt collecting agency. Thanks for any advice you can give me as well as for all the information in this thread, it has been extremely helpful. I was also thinking of applying for a credit card so I could start repairing my credit score, should i apply now or wait till I pay off this debt? (Which thread would be most appropriate for asking questions about credit cards and repairing my score?)

Extras:
Next month it will be 5 years from my last activity and in September it will be 5 years since my first 30 days late notice.
I live in CA and was banking with Union Bank of California.
I am currently a student and have no income, although I will be getting a job soon.
My credit score is currently 632.

Let me know if you need any more info or whatever.

the littlest prince
Sep 23, 2006



Is there a reason you want to take care of this; are you buying a house or something? They probably won't sue for $50 so you could just let it fall off your report eventually. If you do pay it off for whatever reason, make sure it gets deleted or it will continue to affect your credit report for a while.

AutoFool posted:

Extras:
Next month it will be 5 years from my last activity and in September it will be 5 years since my first 30 days late notice.
I live in CA

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-state-statute-limitations-1282.php

You're outside the statute of limitations, they no longer have any legal right to that money. They could probably refuse to bank with you in the future though, I would guess.

AutoFool
Sep 28, 2004

I am the Power

the littlest prince posted:

You're outside the statute of limitations, they no longer have any legal right to that money. They could probably refuse to bank with you in the future though, I would guess.

So I just read about "re-aging" debt. Does the fact that told the collection agency that could start paying off the debt mean that I have now re-aged it? Should I call and tell them I will not be able to pay or otherwise cancel the fact I will start paying them next month?

Sorry for splitting hairs over a smallish amount, but I had recently been screwed over by Cap1 and had to pay them a bunch of money. I guess I should just suck it up, get a job and start paying it off... I don't know I feel really dumb about all of this.

Thanks for all the help.

the littlest prince
Sep 23, 2006


I'm pretty sure you have to actually make a payment for that to happen.

ayb
Sep 12, 2003
Kills Drifters for erections

ayb posted:

Here's my situation

I moved out of an apartment in 2011 and apparently owed them $130(didn't require a security deposit). I moved in 2012, forgot all about it. When my wife and I tried to get an apartment after a move, they said I had to take care of that before we could get moved in. I went in November, paid them in full using a money order.

4 weeks ago I checked my credit report and there was a recent account reported in collections. A week later I got a call from a collection agency wanting $140. I called the complex who were surprised since I cleared it in November. They said they would take care of it 3 weeks ago. On Friday I got a call from collector again. I told them I paid it off months ago and they said the apartment would have to contact them. Called the office again who said they were waiting to hear back.


My wife and I want to get a house loan soon and need this gone asap. What are my options? Since I paid it off so long ago and it just appeared on my credit, will this disappear from my credit?

For anyone curious, I happened to ask my current apartment complex if they had a copy of the money order and receipt I faxed them back in November and they did! I got a copy, called up the collector and told them I had proof I paid it well before it went in to collections. Guy on the phone was cool, gave me all the info I needed and I sent them the proof. Today I got a letter from them stating they had deleted my records.

ceebee
Feb 12, 2004
Shameless cross post:

I finally have a job where I can start paying off my debts (missed bills, old credit card debt, insanely high interest rate car payment) and fixing my credit. I almost couldn't rent the apartment I have with my bad credit, and I'd like to one day have a house and a car that doesn't cost me an arm and a leg. I'm paying $380/month for a 2004 Honda Accord with like an 19% interest rate which is insane and makes me sad, I've got about $8000 left on the lean.

Does getting a credit report reveal all the places that have my debt that I could contact to start paying some of it off? I don't know if it's possible to also refinance my car or anything. I also have no idea what to pay off first or what would most positively affect my credit as soon as possible.

My credit is pretty bad at the moment but I don't know who to talk to or go to to get started in trying to fix it. I estimate I only have about $4-5k of "bad" debt (ie not student loans, car payment, etc) but it's scattered all over the place and I have no paperwork to go back and find it. My car was broken into and some boxes were stolen with my "important files" binder in it.

Daemoxx
Oct 20, 2007
[witty comment goes here]
Four years ago I went to see a doctor for a bill that should have been covered by insurance. This would have been in March or April 2009. It was kicked back by insurance (pneumonia is a pre-existing condition!) at which point I referred the doctor back to my insurance agency, and spent a few days on the phone with insurance until I was told they would handle it.

Fast forward to now. I received a 10-day notice from a collection agency saying that I owe $357, in full, or they will seek a judgement. I haven't received any other notice. I called the agency to ask what the hell this was, and was told that it was from a date of service of October 2009. I asked if there was any way they could validate the debt and they offered to send me an itemized statement, but said they had no way to have my signature or anything else. I don't know what the hell this is, why I'm just now hearing about it though the collection agency says they've been calling and leaving messages as well as sending written notices, or what options I have. I do not have the money to throw at it right now.

My credit is pretty bad but is in the process of improving. A lot of stupid things from when I was 18-21 have been slowly aging off, and I really don't want to take the credit or financial hit, plus I don't think this debt is remotely valid. Oregon is apparently not a state in which you can go to court and fight a judgement, what options do I have right now?

ayb
Sep 12, 2003
Kills Drifters for erections

ceebee posted:

Shameless cross post:

I finally have a job where I can start paying off my debts (missed bills, old credit card debt, insanely high interest rate car payment) and fixing my credit. I almost couldn't rent the apartment I have with my bad credit, and I'd like to one day have a house and a car that doesn't cost me an arm and a leg. I'm paying $380/month for a 2004 Honda Accord with like an 19% interest rate which is insane and makes me sad, I've got about $8000 left on the lean.

Does getting a credit report reveal all the places that have my debt that I could contact to start paying some of it off? I don't know if it's possible to also refinance my car or anything. I also have no idea what to pay off first or what would most positively affect my credit as soon as possible.

My credit is pretty bad at the moment but I don't know who to talk to or go to to get started in trying to fix it. I estimate I only have about $4-5k of "bad" debt (ie not student loans, car payment, etc) but it's scattered all over the place and I have no paperwork to go back and find it. My car was broken into and some boxes were stolen with my "important files" binder in it.

Use annualcreditreport.com ONLY to get your reports from all 3 and it will have who you need to contact in it.

Scathach
Apr 4, 2011

You know that thing where you sleep on your arm funny and when you wake up it's all numb? Yeah that's my whole world right now.


Crossposting from the legal megathread: Because I was dumb and poor, I took out more credit cards than I could handle a couple years ago. I ended up defaulting and they went to collections. I got a court summons from one card ($650.63) this morning and I have twenty days to fill out the question form (which costs $122 to file) and send it in. I absolutely owe the money, I have nothing to contest, and I can't afford to be filing things or to fight this. The bill is $650 but I'm more worried about court costs on top of that-- what attorney fees am I going to have to pay for the other guy. Any ballpark range what I'm going to owe? How do they let you pay this stuff? I feel like I'm a little more than screwed. Anyone have any advice?

I'm in Arizona, married, and the only thing we have to our name is a house. We both work full-time. Together we have about $3,000 in collections for three other credit cards we got a couple years ago and I'm sure those are about to come up too.

I know, I'm never getting a credit card again either.

Scathach fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Aug 5, 2013

ohnobugs
Feb 22, 2003


Scathach posted:

Crossposting from the legal megathread: Because I was dumb and poor, I took out more credit cards than I could handle a couple years ago. I ended up defaulting and they went to collections. I got a court summons from one card ($650.63) this morning and I have twenty days to fill out the question form (which costs $122 to file) and send it in. I absolutely owe the money, I have nothing to contest, and I can't afford to be filing things or to fight this. The bill is $650 but I'm more worried about court costs on top of that-- what attorney fees am I going to have to pay for the other guy. Any ballpark range what I'm going to owe? How do they let you pay this stuff? I feel like I'm a little more than screwed. Anyone have any advice?

I'm in Arizona, married, and the only thing we have to our name is a house. We both work full-time. Together we have about $3,000 in collections for three other credit cards we got a couple years ago and I'm sure those are about to come up too.

I know, I'm never getting a credit card again either.

Why does it cost $122 to file a response? I'm just curious; that seems awfully high for just court documents.

Scathach
Apr 4, 2011

You know that thing where you sleep on your arm funny and when you wake up it's all numb? Yeah that's my whole world right now.


AuntBuck posted:

Why does it cost $122 to file a response? I'm just curious; that seems awfully high for just court documents.

No idea, but that's the fee my husband found. I Googled it and everything I'm looking at says $42-62. I'm going to have to see if I can find a concrete answer... if not tonight I'll just call the court in the morning.

This is all new to us, the only thing I've ever gone to court over was a name change. We don't even want to fight the thing, we just want to get it paid off.

g0lbez
Dec 25, 2004

and then you'll beg
I have a friend who got caught up in some fraud and is now negative $2000 in a major bank (Chase). There's no way she can pay it and I certainly can't help her, so what happens if she closes her account at that point? I know she gets put on a bank blacklist for seven years and her credit is shot to hell but will the collection agency sue her for that amount? We're going to police department soon to file a report and I'm hoping Chase will work with us but I'm just looking at worst case scenarios here.

Bojanglesworth
Oct 20, 2006

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:
Look at all these burgers-running me everyday-
I just need some time-some time to get away from-
from all these burgers I can't take it no more

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:

g0lbez posted:

I have a friend who got caught up in some fraud and is now negative $2000 in a major bank (Chase). There's no way she can pay it and I certainly can't help her, so what happens if she closes her account at that point? I know she gets put on a bank blacklist for seven years and her credit is shot to hell but will the collection agency sue her for that amount? We're going to police department soon to file a report and I'm hoping Chase will work with us but I'm just looking at worst case scenarios here.

She basically won't be able to open a bank account anywhere for either a really long time or until she clears it up. This happened to me and I had to get a letter from the bank saying I satisfied the debt before I could open any kind of account at any bank. I had a collection agency hounding me about the money for forever before I could actually do anything about it. The collection agency didn't sue me, but they sure were annoying.

Emmideer
Oct 20, 2011

Lovely night, no?
Grimey Drawer
I sent a letter by certified mail to a debt collector requesting "competent evidence that this debt was legally acquired, what the money is for, a complete detailed account of how the amount was calculated, proof of the original creditor, and proof that you are registered to collect debt in my state."

I just received their letter back in which they only provided an itemized statement from the original creditor. What's my next step?

Corn Nuts
Jul 16, 2003

Pillbug

Scathach posted:

Crossposting from the legal megathread: Because I was dumb and poor, I took out more credit cards than I could handle a couple years ago. I ended up defaulting and they went to collections. I got a court summons from one card ($650.63) this morning and I have twenty days to fill out the question form (which costs $122 to file) and send it in. I absolutely owe the money, I have nothing to contest, and I can't afford to be filing things or to fight this. The bill is $650 but I'm more worried about court costs on top of that-- what attorney fees am I going to have to pay for the other guy. Any ballpark range what I'm going to owe? How do they let you pay this stuff? I feel like I'm a little more than screwed. Anyone have any advice?

I'm in Arizona, married, and the only thing we have to our name is a house. We both work full-time. Together we have about $3,000 in collections for three other credit cards we got a couple years ago and I'm sure those are about to come up too.

I know, I'm never getting a credit card again either.

A court summons is a summons to court; you shouldn't have to pay the filing fee (yet).

Here is what happened to me in Colorado and it could very well relate to you:

I received the summons and showed up to the court room. There were a few attorneys (for various collection agencies) sitting at tables in front of the judge. I got in line in front of a clerk next to the judge. The clerk gave me a number and I was seated in the spectator bench. The attorneys called numbers 1 at a time. When I was called, the attorney asked me what I was going to answer, which I replied "Deny" (At this point, you may be able to settle with the attorney without paying the filing fee). The attorney instructed me to file my answer in the clerk's record office, and that they would send me notification of the pretrial conference. That was it; that was the entire summons.

If you end up having to the pay the filing fee, regardless, you should answer "Deny". Then make absolute sure you show up to the pretrial conference, usually within a month. If you miss the conference, they will receive an automatic judgement against you and they will garnish your wages or bank account or put a lien on your property. And they will tack on as many fees as possible. Also, do not trust the plaintiff's attorney about dates or mailings. Call the court clerk yourself and get the date of the pretrial conference.

The point of the pretrial conference is to try and settle things before bringing it to an actual trial. At this point you may be able negotiate with the plaintiff or they may even drop the case all together if you simply show up. The burden of proof is on them and you can simply show up and say "That's not my debt". They will need to provide accurate receipts, signed contracts, etc.

Corn Nuts fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Aug 16, 2013

Powdered Toast Man
Jan 25, 2005

TOAST-A-RIFIC!!!
I have sort of an odd logistical issue related to bankruptcy, and I figured y'all would be the best people to ask.

So, I'm close to filing for Chapter 7. In the course of this, I plan to NOT reaffirm my car, and essentially turn it in. There's a problem here, though...I still need a car. So, if I save up the money to buy a car with cash that money will be documented as on hand at the time that I file, which means it could possibly be taken. Likewise, if I get the car ahead of time it will be listed among my assets. It's rather unlikely I'll be able to get a car loan right after I file, even though I will have the ability to pay such a loan...I'm current on my car note right now.

I'm trying to figure out a way to dance around this and still have wheels to get to work. Anyone been through something similar?

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

That's a question best answered by your lawyer I would think as BK laws differ from state to state. If I recall you're in Georgia which has it's own set of BK exemptions. You can exempt a vehicle worth up to 3500 dollars in Georgia, and possibly layer other exemptions on top of it up to around 9100 dollars. Now the court might ask how you bought a car but can't pay your creditors, but I don't think there is much they can do about it.

As for car loans, it'll be difficult between the time you file and when your case is discharged, but the day after your BK7 is discharged your going to get so many offers in the mail to buy a car or open a credit card it won't even be funny. You'll get a dozen offers the first 2 weeks. They know you can't file again, and there isn't much risk loaning you money for a car at 17% interest when they can always come get it if you don't make the payments.

If you have family, you can always have them keep a car in their name that they let you 'borrow'.

woozle wuzzle
Mar 10, 2012

Powdered Toast Man posted:

I have sort of an odd logistical issue related to bankruptcy, and I figured y'all would be the best people to ask.

bk attorney, not your attorney, etc...

After you file, you can stop paying for a car and keep driving it for about 2.5 months. You give financing company the middle finger, keep insurance on it, don't make payments, and you have around 2.5 months to drive it before turning it in after filing.

You got a couple options:
1. buy a car before filing: if it's financed, then it doesn't count against you. There's no equity in it. All they care about is equity in your assets. So a financed vehicle is basically a nullity to bankruptcy. If you pay cash and buy it outright, then you've got to protect that equity. Most states let you keep a paid for vehicle.

2. buy a car after filing: it will vary wildly from location and person, but it's often way easier than you'd think to get a car after bankruptcy. Even while a case is pending, in that 2.5 month window, I'm seeing people get financing under 10%. This will vary, but it is not uncommon for people to get better rates after they file.

3. Hybrid wait and see: some financing companies try to cut a great deal with you so you won't surrender a vehicle. You can take the 2.5 months to "decide", while your lawyer negotiates a reaffirmation deal. You can use the 2.5 months to car shop, then compare the deals between your old car and new car. Some companies do not negotiate, so there's no deal to be made. But it's worth taking a look.


After filing, you aren't stuck with in-house shady financing. Many normal dealerships will work with you immediately. You're guaranteed to be debt free, and you can't file bankruptcy for another 8 years. For many companies, that makes you the safest customer on the lot.

woozle wuzzle fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Aug 14, 2013

Bojanglesworth
Oct 20, 2006

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:
Look at all these burgers-running me everyday-
I just need some time-some time to get away from-
from all these burgers I can't take it no more

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:
No reference to the above case, but it does remind me that my bankruptcy is close to dropping off my credit. At least I hope so. I was discharged in 2005 and it still lingers. Wish I had someone to talk some sense into me all those years ago.

mr. nobody
Sep 25, 2004

Net contents 12 fluid oz.

Jon Joe posted:

I sent a letter by certified mail to a debt collector requesting "competent evidence that this debt was legally acquired, what the money is for, a complete detailed account of how the amount was calculated, proof of the original creditor, and proof that you are registered to collect debt in my state."

I just received their letter back in which they only provided an itemized statement from the original creditor. What's my next step?

For me, this has been my experience as well. I'm suing them.

edit: my reply wasn't in full; in my case there have been more violations of the FDCPA than that, but failing to validate by itemizing 'line item' fees is among them

mr. nobody fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Aug 17, 2013

woozle wuzzle
Mar 10, 2012

Bojanglesworth posted:

No reference to the above case, but it does remind me that my bankruptcy is close to dropping off my credit. At least I hope so. I was discharged in 2005 and it still lingers. Wish I had someone to talk some sense into me all those years ago.

The financial world has done a 180 in how it treats bankruptcies since 2005. Credit life after a bankruptcy is totally different, and basically your experiences have very little to do with what people experience now. That doesn't change the reality of the hardships you dealt with, but the calculus of filing is very different now.

The good news and upshot for you is that the bankruptcy lingering on your credit will have very little, if any, effect on your ability to get financing. In 2005 through about 2009, that was not the case.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

woozle wuzzle posted:

bk attorney, not your attorney, etc...

After you file, you can stop paying for a car and keep driving it for about 2.5 months. You give financing company the middle finger, keep insurance on it, don't make payments, and you have around 2.5 months to drive it before turning it in after filing.

You got a couple options:
1. buy a car before filing: if it's financed, then it doesn't count against you. There's no equity in it. All they care about is equity in your assets. So a financed vehicle is basically a nullity to bankruptcy. If you pay cash and buy it outright, then you've got to protect that equity. Most states let you keep a paid for vehicle.

2. buy a car after filing: it will vary wildly from location and person, but it's often way easier than you'd think to get a car after bankruptcy. Even while a case is pending, in that 2.5 month window, I'm seeing people get financing under 10%. This will vary, but it is not uncommon for people to get better rates after they file.

3. Hybrid wait and see: some financing companies try to cut a great deal with you so you won't surrender a vehicle. You can take the 2.5 months to "decide", while your lawyer negotiates a reaffirmation deal. You can use the 2.5 months to car shop, then compare the deals between your old car and new car. Some companies do not negotiate, so there's no deal to be made. But it's worth taking a look.


After filing, you aren't stuck with in-house shady financing. Many normal dealerships will work with you immediately. You're guaranteed to be debt free, and you can't file bankruptcy for another 8 years. For many companies, that makes you the safest customer on the lot.
Isn't it a bit shady to intentionally gently caress people over with bankruptcy? I mean, if you can't afford the car payments but need a car for work, that's one thing. But to intentionally drive around a car you're not planning on making payments on ever even though you can seems a bit unethical.

If you just called up the car company and explained the situation, would they work with you?

KS
Jun 10, 2003
Outrageous Lumpwad

Corn Nuts posted:

A court summons is a summons to court; you shouldn't have to pay the filing fee (yet).

Here is what happened to me in Colorado and it could very well relate to you:

...

The point of the pretrial conference is to try and settle things before bringing it to an actual trial. At this point you may be able negotiate with the plaintiff or they may even drop the case all together if you simply show up. The burden of proof is on them and you can simply show up and say "That's not my debt". They will need to provide accurate receipts, signed contracts, etc.

How many things are wrong in this post? A lot of things. You don't loving plead in a civil case, for starters. And people more competent than you in this thread have specifically recommended against showing up in person (but getting a lawyer to represent you) because if you show up they just chuck you on the stand and ask you if it's your debt. Summary judgement against you or perjury once they prove it's yours.

I think that's about right. I'm not an expert, but after reading this thread your advice stuck out as wrong.

Corn Nuts
Jul 16, 2003

Pillbug

KS posted:

How many things are wrong in this post? A lot of things. You don't loving plead in a civil case, for starters. And people more competent than you in this thread have specifically recommended against showing up in person (but getting a lawyer to represent you) because if you show up they just chuck you on the stand and ask you if it's your debt. Summary judgement against you or perjury once they prove it's yours.

I think that's about right. I'm not an expert, but after reading this thread your advice stuck out as wrong.

Looking at my records, I did indeed put "Deny" on my answer so I will admit my mistake on that part. I barely know anything about law; I just wanted to state how things went for me. I guess I should have prefaced that better.

So it's recommended in this thread to hire an attorney for a $650 complaint? The OP should probably update this part:

quote:

...There's next to no downside to trying to defend yourself in court - the worst that can happen is you pay what you would have if you didn't show up at all...

And is perjury really prosecuted in civil debt cases? I've never heard of it. Then simply reply "I don't recall about that debt" vs "That's not my debt"?

A quick google search tells me there's no difference between a summary judgement and default judgement other than the prerequisite to the judgement. The defendant is hosed for the same amount either way? Might as well waste the plaintiff's time.

woozle wuzzle
Mar 10, 2012

Dik Hz posted:

Isn't it a bit shady to intentionally gently caress people over with bankruptcy? I mean, if you can't afford the car payments but need a car for work, that's one thing. But to intentionally drive around a car you're not planning on making payments on ever even though you can seems a bit unethical.

If you just called up the car company and explained the situation, would they work with you?

Rather than write out a long essay to you, I'll simply say that you don't know what you're talking about. You should not be waxing poetic about ethics in a thread on debt solutions unless you have a good handle on the issues.

And to answer your question: if you called the car company and explained the situation (assuming like top 50 lenders in the US), they would absolutely not work with you. (not a guess...)

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

woozle wuzzle posted:

Rather than write out a long essay to you, I'll simply say that you don't know what you're talking about. You should not be waxing poetic about ethics in a thread on debt solutions unless you have a good handle on the issues.

And to answer your question: if you called the car company and explained the situation (assuming like top 50 lenders in the US), they would absolutely not work with you. (not a guess...)
Dude. You're obviously not an unbiased source. Pardon me if I don't just accept what you say just because you said it.

ibntumart
Mar 18, 2007

Good, bad. I'm the one with the power of Shu, Heru, Amon, Zehuti, Aton, and Mehen.
College Slice

Dik Hz posted:

Dude. You're obviously not an unbiased source. Pardon me if I don't just accept what you say just because you said it.

Woozle Wuzzle is an attorney who does bankruptcy law. You, on the other hand, are someone who has only ever engaged this thread to argue how poor people have a moral obligation to pay landlords and other creditors, despite the hardship, rather than avail themselves of sound bankruptcy filing strategies. While he may have a bias, you certainly appear to have one yourself.

The problem is that unlike Woozle Wuzzle, you don't appear to have any legal background to support your standpoint. So your posts boil down to your preaching to poors to pay their betters instead of offering any actual help or constructive advice.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

ibntumart posted:

Woozle Wuzzle is an attorney who does bankruptcy law. You, on the other hand, are someone who has only ever engaged this thread to argue how poor people have a moral obligation to pay landlords and other creditors, despite the hardship, rather than avail themselves of sound bankruptcy filing strategies. While he may have a bias, you certainly appear to have one yourself.

The problem is that unlike Woozle Wuzzle, you don't appear to have any legal background to support your standpoint. So your posts boil down to your preaching to poors to pay their betters instead of offering any actual help or constructive advice.

Woozle Wuzzle is a person who gets paid to get people to declare bankruptcy. I am some random dude on the internet with an opinion, but no stake in the game. Make your choices however you see fit.

woozle wuzzle
Mar 10, 2012
I thought I recognized you. Yup, you're this dipshit. Unfortunately, not everything in the world can be proven or linked on the internet for your convenient digestion. The bankruptcy code provides for 45 days past the initial 341 meeting for keeping a secured vehicle. We could debate the ethics of invoking a constitutional federal right, "is there really such a thing as victimless crime?", interest earned over the principal owed, dealer practices in financing damaged credit, and the value lost in 2 months of use on a 1998 Dodge Ram. Or I could just say gently caress you.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

woozle wuzzle posted:

I thought I recognized you. Yup, you're this dipshit. Unfortunately, not everything in the world can be proven or linked on the internet for your convenient digestion. The bankruptcy code provides for 45 days past the initial 341 meeting for keeping a secured vehicle. We could debate the ethics of invoking a constitutional federal right, "is there really such a thing as victimless crime?", interest earned over the principal owed, dealer practices in financing damaged credit, and the value lost in 2 months of use on a 1998 Dodge Ram. Or I could just say gently caress you.
Why are you so angry? I bet "You're a dipshit" goes over great in bankruptcy court.

I am seriously curious why you think the lender would be unwilling to work with him on the car. I'm only familiar with the trustee side of things, and from what I understand, lenders will bend over backwards to work with people in lieu of bankruptcy. As long as the creditor is acting in good faith.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

BonerGhost
Mar 9, 2007

Just because you don't have a monetized stake doesn't mean you have no stake in the game. Don't act like you have no bias.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

NancyPants posted:

Just because you don't have a monetized stake doesn't mean you have no stake in the game. Don't act like you have no bias.
What's your bias?

BonerGhost
Mar 9, 2007

Dik Hz posted:

What's your bias?

My bias is gently caress you human being.

E: to elaborate, I'm not sitting here arguing for or against bankruptcy and especially not on any moral grounds, so I'm not sure my bias is relevant. Perhaps you could better defend your position rather than going ad hominem. For you to act as if you don't have an agenda is retarded. human being.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

SilverSliver
Nov 27, 2009

by elpintogrande
Okay that's enough of that.

Powdered Toast Man
Jan 25, 2005

TOAST-A-RIFIC!!!
So I'm sort of...shopping around...

There's a huge "bankruptcy mill" firm in Atlanta, Clark & Washington. On the one hand they offer nice terms like only paying the filing fee up front rather than their total fee. This is nice when you're in a financial situation lovely enough that you need to file bankruptcy, anyway. I just wonder how well they're going to handle my case, which is admittedly pretty simple (no house/mortgage, very little assets or cash on hand, within the means test limit on my income for Chap 7, and only a handful of creditors)...but still, I'm worried about the quality of service I will get. I've considered filing pro se and even got the NOLO book on it but ultimately I just don't trust myself enough to do everything correctly and not get hosed over.

So far, every single individual (not a mill) bankruptcy lawyer has required something like $1500 up front before they'll even touch it, which is a real kick in the nuts for me. I do understand that they have to get paid before the bankruptcy is final for obvious reasons, but drat. Does anyone know anything about Clark & Washington?

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

I don't know that I would worry about it too much with a cut and dry Chapter 7 case. Those guys could do one of those in their sleep. Looking at Atlanta Craigslist the going rate seems to be in the 900 to 1K range for a BK attorney plus filing fees.

woozle wuzzle
Mar 10, 2012
Watch out, cause sometimes the "pay after you file" deals are really Chapter 13's that convert into 7's and that's a raw deal. I don't know that firm, but in general for a straight Chapter 7... a bankruptcy is a bankruptcy is a bankruptcy. The mill firms typically charge a little more but have better customer support systems.

In general, the end results of most cases will be identical no matter who you go with. The firms that take payments can end up costing way more than the up-front prices, so you want to compare real prices. There can be a lot of hidden costs depending on how they charge for incidentals (the 2 required courses, the ~$300 filing fee, credit report, local deed searches, etc). It's fine however they charge that stuff, as long as you know about it so you can compare apples to apples.

Let's say the mill will cost $2000 in total but accepts payments, and a local chump will cost $1500 but requires it up-front. It really depends on your personal finances and how fast you need it done. Sometimes people need it done within 24 hours, other times they have time to save it up on their own.

I know I have evil money-maker bias or whatthefuckever, but I'd advise against filing for yourself. Like if my sister lived in a different state and needed bankruptcy, I'd tell her to get a local attorney rather than walking her through it myself. The system was made by lawyers that ensured people would need a lawyer to file... and they did their job well.

Powdered Toast Man
Jan 25, 2005

TOAST-A-RIFIC!!!

woozle wuzzle posted:

Watch out, cause sometimes the "pay after you file" deals are really Chapter 13's that convert into 7's and that's a raw deal. I don't know that firm, but in general for a straight Chapter 7... a bankruptcy is a bankruptcy is a bankruptcy. The mill firms typically charge a little more but have better customer support systems.

In general, the end results of most cases will be identical no matter who you go with. The firms that take payments can end up costing way more than the up-front prices, so you want to compare real prices. There can be a lot of hidden costs depending on how they charge for incidentals (the 2 required courses, the ~$300 filing fee, credit report, local deed searches, etc). It's fine however they charge that stuff, as long as you know about it so you can compare apples to apples.

Let's say the mill will cost $2000 in total but accepts payments, and a local chump will cost $1500 but requires it up-front. It really depends on your personal finances and how fast you need it done. Sometimes people need it done within 24 hours, other times they have time to save it up on their own.

I know I have evil money-maker bias or whatthefuckever, but I'd advise against filing for yourself. Like if my sister lived in a different state and needed bankruptcy, I'd tell her to get a local attorney rather than walking her through it myself. The system was made by lawyers that ensured people would need a lawyer to file... and they did their job well.

Well, I haven't been sued by any of my creditors, although they're all charged off so I guess that could happen at any time? A couple of them aren't even hassling me via collections any more. I'm not sure if that's good or disturbing, especially considering that the largest creditor, BoA, has me in for over $9,000. So...maybe I have time to save up $1500, and maybe I don't. I'm a bit apprehensive. :stare:

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woozle wuzzle
Mar 10, 2012
The rubber meets the road when BoA sues you (which they eventually will). You get full 100% protection the day you file a bankruptcy, and that protection includes canceling any pending court proceedings and preventing any future ones. Whenever you do get sued, you'll get court paperwork for a hearing that's around a month out. Let's say tomorrow you're unlucky and get served papers for a trial date of 9/30: if you file between now and 9/29 that hearing cannot proceed and is dismissed. So generally you've got time to save up until you get a court summons, which then puts a clock on the situation. You don't want to live in stress for months on end, but you're not on a time crunch either. You're probably fine either way, so you have time to weigh the price versus your comfort level with the firm.

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