|
Miss-Bomarc posted:Alternate view: We don't want to give up a big chunk of public park for free so that some one-percenter can have a fancy display barn for all his possessions. "Look at ALL MY STUFF, you peons! Look at how your city BEGS me to show it to you! Look, and despair that YOU aren't as awesome as I am!" A large percentage of the items on display at the DeYoung and the Legion are on loan from their wealthy owners. It's like, a thing that art collectors do a lot. And the dude was old and dying and wanted to share his artwork with the public, which is something we should encourage. I get that there's some good reasons why we might not want a specific museum in a specific place: Papercut posted:San Francisco doesn't need another huge museum, the permanent collections at their current museums are already pretty lackluster. Donating it to the MoMA or DeYoung Museum makes a lot more sense than paving over open space and knocking down historic buildings. Although the MoMA, DeYoung, and Legion all have far more artwork in storage than they can display at once, and I'd have to really take issue with the idea that the DeYoung (and the Asian Art Museum)'s collection is "lackluster"; but the argument that a rich person was being too snooty what with his deigning to share his artwork instead of keeping it locked up and private and so we don't want his museum is pretty crap. Maybe it doesn't belong in the Presidio. But SF basically turned down an offer to donate a whole museum to the city, and that's kind of loving nuts. Apparently it was too boxy and white? I'm glad the guy still felt generous enough to give his collection to SF's museums after being snubbed, and this is kind of a derail, but it really does underline my point: if a public museum project was a no-go, paving over the Presidio to build high-rise apartments is smoking crack.
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 18:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 04:19 |
|
|
Miss-Bomarc posted:Alternate view: We don't want to give up a big chunk of public park for free so that some one-percenter can have a fancy display barn for all his possessions. "Look at ALL MY STUFF, you peons! Look at how your city BEGS me to show it to you! Look, and despair that YOU aren't as awesome as I am!" Also, locating it a one-hour (one-way) bus ride from downtown was a terrible idea. And the proposed design for the building looked 100% out-of-place in the Presidio, even after they tried to shrink it and move a bunch of it underground.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 18:56
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:I'm glad the guy still felt generous enough to give his collection to SF's museums after being snubbed, and this is kind of a derail, but it really does underline my point: if a public museum project was a no-go, paving over the Presidio to build high-rise apartments is smoking crack. Oh I completely agree. Building housing over parks or knocking down painted ladies and other Victorian and Edwardian architecture to build high-rise housing is such a joke of an idea that I have to think anyone suggesting it knows nothing about SF. The city's current direction of redeveloping old industrial districts makes a LOT more sense than getting angry about the 2- and 3-unit Edwardians that dominate the western portions of the city and are synonymous with the aesthetic of the city.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 19:03
|
|
|
The Presidio is as old as our nation, maybe we should preserve it. There are tons of places in SF he could have sited that museum, like Mission Bay. SF has 700+ acres of brownfields. If the guy was being generous, maybe he should have cited it there. My guess is, he wanted his museum near Walt's.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 19:04
|
|
|
To be honest, if you want the supply of housing in San Francisco to dramatically increase, something is eventually has got to go. That or you work on the current system of sprawling out with a few new super-expensive condo towers, which seems to be the route of least resistance.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 19:52
|
|
|
Ardennes posted:To be honest, if you want the supply of housing in San Francisco to dramatically increase, something is eventually has got to go. That or you work on the current system of sprawling out with a few new super-expensive condo towers, which seems to be the route of least resistance. The best solution would be to force Google and other tech companies to build Judge Dredd megablock to house their employees. They could even have blocks wars time to time as a more interesting version of competition.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 20:01
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:The Presidio is as old as our nation, maybe we should preserve it. There are tons of places in SF he could have sited that museum, like Mission Bay. SF has 700+ acres of brownfields. If the guy was being generous, maybe he should have cited it there. Most of the Presidio is basically a superfund site with the old Nike site or dilapidated army barracks. There is actually a decent amount of space open to tastefully develop.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 21:11
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:
It was too near the rich people in Presidio and Pacific Heights. They view the Presidio as their own private playground, and don't want a bunch of plebes getting in the way when they are trying to take their poodles down to Crissy Field for a jaunt.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 21:11
|
|
|
etalian posted:The best solution would be to force Google and other tech companies to build Judge Dredd megablock to house their employees. I thought those micro-apartments were pretty dystopian, but there needs to be more neon.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 21:29
|
|
|
Dusseldorf posted:Most of the Presidio is basically a superfund site with the old Nike site or dilapidated army barracks. There is actually a decent amount of space open to tastefully develop. Oh come on, the Nike sites are barely worse than a gas station. The park service actually has tenants in a surprising number of those building. If you want to talk about contamition in the Bay Area I'd look to Treasure Island, Hunter's Point, Richmond, the South Bay, anywhere in Bayview, etc. The presidio is a secret jewel of the nation, and the longer we can preserve it, the richer our heritage will be because of it. Few places outside of the 13 colonies can you see examples of every phase of American history within a few miles. Plus, as long as we have massive undeveloped land on the bayside there's no need to remove green space for anything. Or just stabilized Treasure Island and build big stuff there (so long as we leave the Berlin Airport from Indiana Jones).
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 21:57
|
|
|
Papercut posted:Oh I completely agree. Building housing over parks or knocking down painted ladies and other Victorian and Edwardian architecture to build high-rise housing is such a joke of an idea that I have to think anyone suggesting it knows nothing about SF. The city's current direction of redeveloping old industrial districts makes a LOT more sense than getting angry about the 2- and 3-unit Edwardians that dominate the western portions of the city and are synonymous with the aesthetic of the city.  In all seriousness, SF is an old city with a lot of old things - if you want to build new things, something has got to go. Of course, this is also the city in which the entire NW section (everything above the park) has no rail transport because BART and MUNI don't get along.Trabisnikof posted:Oh come on, the Nike sites are barely worse than a gas station. The park service actually has tenants in a surprising number of those building. If you want to talk about contamition in the Bay Area I'd look to Treasure Island, Hunter's Point, Richmond, the South Bay, anywhere in Bayview, etc. The presidio is a secret jewel of the nation, and the longer we can preserve it, the richer our heritage will be because of it. Few places outside of the 13 colonies can you see examples of every phase of American history within a few miles. cheese fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Aug 16, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 22:00
|
|
|
cheese posted:What do Treasure Island and Richmond have to do with anything? One is a small island in the middle of the bay and another is one of the worst ghettos around. They both have histories of heavy contamination? Treasure Island by the Navy and Richmond by the shipyards and refineries. The extremely limited amount of contamination in the Presidio pales in comparison to the contamination in any of the other BRAC sites (Skragg island excluded).
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 22:21
|
|
|
predicto posted:It was too near the rich people in Presidio and Pacific Heights. They view the Presidio as their own private playground, and don't want a bunch of plebes getting in the way when they are trying to take their poodles down to Crissy Field for a jaunt. This is absolutely ridiculous. I go through the Presidio to Crissy Field at least 3 or 4 times per week and there are FAR more tourists there on bikes, the Presidio shuttle, MUNI buses, any of the multitude of tour buses that go there (double-deckers, open top, the old fire engine, etc), those stupid go-cart things, or just driving than there are locals. To make it out as if it's some gated off area that only rich people frequent is just straight up wrong.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 22:25
|
|
|
Papercut posted:Building housing over parks or knocking down painted ladies and other Victorian and Edwardian architecture to build high-rise housing is such a joke of an idea that I have to think anyone suggesting it knows nothing about SF. I wasn't aware this was Victorian architecture worth keeping:  CrazyLittle fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Aug 16, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 22:34
|
|
|
The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > San Francisco Megathread: There Are Other Parts of California?
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 22:36
|
|
|
CrazyLittle posted:I wasn't aware this was Victorian architecture worth keeping: That comment was in reference to all the people complaining about development city-wide, not just the in the Presidio. And those buildings pictured are of a contemporary era to Victorian and Edwardian buildings in the city so I don't even know what your point is.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 22:38
|
|
|
CrazyLittle posted:I wasn't aware this was Victorian architecture worth keeping: Why is that crass? There's just not much space to develop, since people don't want communal bathrooms offices make sense. I just don't understand the urge to develop one of the largest greenspaces in a modern city when there are huge areas of industrial blight (that are closer to the transportation core too).
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 22:42
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:There Are Other Parts of California? Nope  Papercut posted:That comment was in reference to all the people complaining about development city-wide, not just the in the Presidio. And those buildings pictured are of a contemporary era to Victorian and Edwardian buildings in the city so I don't even know what your point is. The thing that gets me the most about the presidio is the lack of development toward any kind of reasonable residential space. Everyone I've know who rented out there hated it because even simple grocery shopping involved leaving the presidio. The photo of the barracks I posted above are buildings that have all been converted into boutique loft offices. It's pretty crass. Trabisnikof posted:Why is that crass? There's just not much space to develop, since people don't want communal bathrooms offices make sense. I just don't understand the urge to develop one of the largest greenspaces in a modern city when there are huge areas of industrial blight (that are closer to the transportation core too). Because it's essentially public use property being sliced up to serve a market that's already over served in San Francisco.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 22:42
|
|
|
CrazyLittle posted:Nope But it really isn't crass. The Presidio rents 2BRs for $2,700 well below the city wide average. Also often those buildings are no longer suitable for residential use, since they were built for soldiers like 50+ years ago. Right, the land isn't that good for any sort of development. Maybe they should rent the existing buildings to support the costs of maintaining a huge public greenspace instead? \/ Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Aug 16, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 22:45
|
|
|
It's also ill-served for office space because there's little to no telecommunications infrastructure in that area.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 22:46
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:They both have histories of heavy contamination? Treasure Island by the Navy and Richmond by the shipyards and refineries. The extremely limited amount of contamination in the Presidio pales in comparison to the contamination in any of the other BRAC sites (Skragg island excluded).
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 22:52
|
|
|
cheese posted:What is your point? That we should develop Richmond instead of the Presidio because it has more contamination? I'm confused. Dusseldorf posted:Most of the Presidio is basically a superfund site with the old Nike site or dilapidated army barracks. There is actually a decent amount of space open to tastefully develop. I was responding to that post. My point is that actually the Presidio is not really contaminated for the Bay Area. That if the idea is to convert land that is unusable because of industrial misuse, there are better options that don't impact a core cultural heritage of the nation. Besides development will pretty much never happen since its a National Landmark Area and part of a National Recreation Area.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 23:03
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > San Francisco Megathread: There Are Other Parts of California? I'd bring up some interesting tidbits about my area around San Bernardino and Riverside county but it's all terrible and depressing anyways.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 23:28
|
|
|
FCKGW posted:I'd bring up some interesting tidbits about my area around San Bernardino and Riverside county but it's all terrible and depressing anyways. I'd talk more about LA but I've only been here 2.5 years and don't feel like enough of an authority to discuss anything other than the Metro is cool and we should expand the gently caress out of it. LA's problems are depressing, too.  
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 23:33
|
|
|
FCKGW posted:I'd bring up some interesting tidbits about my area around San Bernardino and Riverside county but it's all terrible and depressing anyways. The past few weeks the weather was unusually great for this time of the year, but I think that has passed and we're all in for the usual poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 23:39
|
|
|
I'll leave OC discussion to the people who live there (since I'm only there for school anyway). I just...refrain from talking about politics with anyone at school who actually came from Orange County. And it's finally started to heat up here in the Silicon Valley too, after about two weeks of pretty mild weather (around the 70s). Jerry Manderbilt fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Aug 16, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 23:40
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:I'd talk more about LA but I've only been here 2.5 years and don't feel like enough of an authority to discuss anything other than the Metro is cool and we should expand the gently caress out of it. LA's not bad when it comes to museums though since the MOCA and LACMA are like 7 miles apart, and you can spend a day between the two of them and go to the Griffin Observatory in the evening. Plus there's the Pantages, Ahmanson, Disney Concert hall, or seeing a show being taped at WB studios and all of them being really fun but cheep / mid range (ok concert hall is expensive) things to do if you have a free day there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 23:44
|
|
|
Papercut posted:This is absolutely ridiculous. I go through the Presidio to Crissy Field at least 3 or 4 times per week and there are FAR more tourists there on bikes, the Presidio shuttle, MUNI buses, any of the multitude of tour buses that go there (double-deckers, open top, the old fire engine, etc), those stupid go-cart things, or just driving than there are locals. To make it out as if it's some gated off area that only rich people frequent is just straight up wrong. That's not what I said. What I said was that the OPPOSITION to the Fisher museum on the Main Post came from the rich people who border the Presidio, who oppose everything that might happen in the Presidio. It took almost two decades to get them to allow reuse of the abandoned dilapidated hospital at 15th street to be used for anything. They are the ultimate NIMBYs.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2013 23:59
|
|
|
Congress mandated that The Presidio support itself financially by 2013. They managed it way early (2006 I think) but the point is, renovating and renting out the existing structures has allowed the park to be run without costing taxpayers anything, while also preserving the green space.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 00:20
|
|
|
A Winner is Jew posted:LA's not bad when it comes to museums though since the MOCA and LACMA are like 7 miles apart, and you can spend a day between the two of them and go to the Griffin Observatory in the evening. Plus there's the Pantages, Ahmanson, Disney Concert hall, or seeing a show being taped at WB studios and all of them being really fun but cheep / mid range (ok concert hall is expensive) things to do if you have a free day there. The Getty is a pretty awesome museum(s) as well.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 02:59
|
|
|
FCKGW posted:I'd bring up some interesting tidbits about my area around San Bernardino and Riverside county but it's all terrible and depressing anyways. No, go ahead. I've been out there only a few times and around here (Orange County) people talk about that part of the world like it's Satan's own rear end in a top hat. On the one hand I've never come across anything to disprove that on the other hand I feel like I don't actually know what is going on there and what the issues are.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 03:18
|
|
|
The landscape around Riverside is one of the most depressing places I can think of. The first time I drove through there some scrapyard had caught fire and there was a plume of inky black tire smoke floating up near the freeway. It didn't seem out of place in the slightest.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 03:29
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > San Francisco Megathread: There Are Other Parts of California? I have had relatives call me and ask if I was in any danger from the wildfires burning outside Los Angeles. "No grandmom, those are actually four hundred fifty miles away."
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 03:32
|
|
|
Kenning posted:The landscape around Riverside is one of the most depressing places I can think of. The first time I drove through there some scrapyard had caught fire and there was a plume of inky black tire smoke floating up near the freeway. It didn't seem out of place in the slightest. It is a cultural and environmental wasteland. It's air quality is the worst in the nation, it's tap water among the most polluted aside from living next to a loving fracking operation, and it features some of the most egregious examples of suburban sprawl you can conceive with nothing but miles of lovely poorly constructed tract housing stacked on top of one another, never too far from some strip mall. It's not Satan's rear end in a top hat, it's the giant oozing carbuncle right next to it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 03:42
|
|
|
It mystifies me that Riverside is one of the fastest growing counties in CA.(including me and my wife, who are moving from OC to Corona)
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 03:44
|
|
|
Illumination posted:It is a cultural and environmental wasteland. It's air quality is the worst in the nation, it's tap water among the most polluted aside from living next to a loving fracking operation, and it features some of the most egregious examples of suburban sprawl you can conceive with nothing but miles of lovely poorly constructed tract housing stacked on top of one another, never too far from some strip mall. It's not Satan's rear end in a top hat, it's the giant oozing carbuncle right next to it. Sort of the California version of Mordor? 
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 03:44
|
|
|
Yeah, the impression I got of the area was a series of housing tracts and large chain stores on loop for many miles, but since I was mostly just passing through, I felt like I had a one-sided perspective. I guess it's cheaper to live in than lots of other places, but I figure you lose at least a portion of that advantage once you factor in commute time and costs.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 03:51
|
|
|
etalian posted:Sort of the California version of Mordor? You joke, but yes, the Inland Empire is surrounded by the Santa Ana and the Santa Rosa mountains and they do a fantastic job of keeping in all the pollution produced by the LA basin.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 04:04
|
|
|
Illumination posted:You joke, but yes, the Inland Empire is surrounded by the Santa Ana and the Santa Rosa mountains and they do a fantastic job of keeping in all the pollution produced by the LA basin. And then you get to the temperature Inversions and literally die from smog.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 04:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 04:19 |
|
|
A Winner is Jew posted:LA's not bad when it comes to museums though since the MOCA and LACMA are like 7 miles apart, and you can spend a day between the two of them and go to the Griffin Observatory in the evening. Plus there's the Pantages, Ahmanson, Disney Concert hall, or seeing a show being taped at WB studios and all of them being really fun but cheep / mid range (ok concert hall is expensive) things to do if you have a free day there. The Getty, Chinatown, and hiking the Santa Monica mountain range are all cheap or free, and fun to do. Beaches are free, and so's freakwatching or -being in Venice. Visitors love walking around the canals; start or end the trip at Baja Cantina at the southern end on Washington. Visit dead movie star graves. Watch Shakespeare in the wild. Check out the coolest retro furniture warehouse ever, or the resale stores. (I saw a beautiful carved 4-poster bed at a Sal Army in the valley that had been Oscar de la Hoya's.) UCLA has cheap shows a lot, and the Geffin Playhouse often has last-minute cheapo rush tix available through goldstar.com. Also: Harvelle's in Santa Monica for jazz 7 days a week, and the free music at the pier on Thursday nights.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 04:18
|
|
