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Che Delilas posted:The only reason you are unsure is because you're aware of how obscenely much you don't know compared to what you do know. http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/s/socrates101212.html Cicero posted:more tips Thanks guys, that's good advice. I also found some related threads on the programmers stackexchange. A lot of the advice boils down to asking questions and taking good notes. http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/83288/my-first-job-in-a-dev-team-what-should-my-priorities-be/ http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/58908/integrating-into-a-new-team
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Aug 16, 2013 16:47
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Chosen posted:Well, I've been extended an offer for a Software Engineer job for a demanding company in Chicago. This will be my first full-time pure development job -- I've developed tons of small internal tools as a SysAdmin and Automation/QA Engineer, but nothing I've had to maintain for more than a few months, and certainly nothing I've ever collaborated on. I've basically been a one-man shop for almost everything I've ever worked on, so I've never had to go through a painful merge, for example. I'm mostly spending my spare time trying to get my head around Android as much as I can so that when I start there I can focus more on integrating with the team and their processes rather than the language and framework. Though there's still going to be a lot of that too. I know that the company I'm starting with has hired fresh graduates in the past so I don't really have any concerns about them helping me get up to speed. Most companies should know how to help you get to where you need to be.
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Aug 16, 2013 18:21
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Anyone have experience working in a traditional PM role and feel like sharing some advice? I'm headed to Redmond for a final round interview and I'd appreciate any info on what the job is like compared to a traditional dev role, pros/cons, etc.
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Aug 16, 2013 19:13
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bonds0097 posted:Anyone have experience working in a traditional PM role and feel like sharing some advice? I'm headed to Redmond for a final round interview and I'd appreciate any info on what the job is like compared to a traditional dev role, pros/cons, etc. does the P stand for project or product
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Aug 16, 2013 23:25
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rotor posted:does the P stand for project or product Project Manager, sorry.
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Aug 16, 2013 23:44
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bonds0097 posted:Anyone have experience working in a traditional PM role and feel like sharing some advice? I'm headed to Redmond for a final round interview and I'd appreciate any info on what the job is like compared to a traditional dev role, pros/cons, etc. Honestly, those are probably good things to ask to your interviewers about. Many of them may be former dev or test, so they could tell you why they switched roles and whatnot. I'm not a PM, but of the "traditional PMs" that I work with, their role seems to vary greatly from team to team and even person to person. I assume this has to do both with circumstance and what you make of the job. Standard interview tips: Get sleep the night before (as much as possible) and eat breakfast. tk fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Aug 17, 2013 |
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Aug 17, 2013 00:28
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bonds0097 posted:Anyone have experience working in a traditional PM role and feel like sharing some advice? I'm headed to Redmond for a final round interview and I'd appreciate any info on what the job is like compared to a traditional dev role, pros/cons, etc. at places I've worked (not microsoft) PMs are completely nontechnical and are there to wrangle schedules and dependencies and set milestones, find out why milestones were missed and basically just be calendar nags. but as tk says, the job description for project managers varies wildly from company to company.
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Aug 17, 2013 07:01
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I've delivered pizza at Papa John's for... almost 5 years now. I haven't been listing this on my resume because it's quite clearly unrelated to programming. But nothing I have actually relates to programming directly. Would the Papa John's job be good just to show that I can stay in one place for five years?
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Aug 17, 2013 13:12
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Zero The Hero posted:I've delivered pizza at Papa John's for... almost 5 years now. I haven't been listing this on my resume because it's quite clearly unrelated to programming. But nothing I have actually relates to programming directly. Would the Papa John's job be good just to show that I can stay in one place for five years? No
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Aug 17, 2013 15:53
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Zero The Hero posted:nothing I have actually relates to programming directly Then you'll never get a job as a programmer. You really have to have experience before you can get experience. But this is the one industry where you don't have to be hired by a programming company to get programming experience. Spend a weekend to build something simple and useful software project.
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Aug 17, 2013 20:28
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Even having personal projects that you can talk about in-depth helps a lot. I usually list whatever toy personal projects I have going on my resume, even if they're half baked and never likely to see the light of day. At least it gives you *something* to show that you have some knowledge of software development, however small.
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Aug 17, 2013 22:23
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Zero The Hero posted:I've delivered pizza at Papa John's for... almost 5 years now. I haven't been listing this on my resume because it's quite clearly unrelated to programming. But nothing I have actually relates to programming directly. Would the Papa John's job be good just to show that I can stay in one place for five years?
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Aug 17, 2013 22:45
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A PM at Microsoft is not a dev role, period. If you're Interviewing on the belief that it is then there's been a serious miscommunication. PMs are responsible for the product considered as a set of end-user features. They decide what those features will be, how they rank in business value, and how to modify them as needed to meet the schedule. There are also certain "czar" type roles in each product group tasked with company wide initiatives (e.g. attack threat modeling) and a PM might also be assigned to these in addition to the main role. Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Aug 17, 2013 |
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Aug 17, 2013 23:33
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Pilsner posted:What have you done then, hobby development? Very little, but I also have a degree.
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Aug 18, 2013 01:25
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Zero The Hero posted:Very little, but I also have a degree. And so does nearly every other person who will be applying for the jobs you want. Even if you're fresh out of school, it sounds like you've made a pretty huge mistake. Surely you have a semi-cool capstone project to list on your resume or something, right?
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Aug 18, 2013 02:26
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Why have you been delivering pizzas instead of software development if you have a degree?
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Aug 18, 2013 03:08
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Work can be hard to find in this economy.
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Aug 18, 2013 03:11
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Strong Sauce posted:Why have you been delivering pizzas instead of software development if you have a degree? Trust me, I'll switch jobs as soon as I can.
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Aug 18, 2013 03:12
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Have you kept up with any of your college classmates? Asked them to represent you for job openings where they work? Asked them to pass on your name when they get certain types of recruiter cold calls?
Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Aug 18, 2013 |
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Aug 18, 2013 03:51
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while (!makeit) fakeit();
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Aug 18, 2013 04:34
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Zero The Hero posted:Trust me, I'll switch jobs as soon as I can. I guess I should ask, "did you graduate and then worked at Papa Johns for 5 years?" Because that is probably a dealbreaker. Also leave Tennessee. Strong Sauce fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Aug 18, 2013 |
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Aug 18, 2013 06:12
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Have you been applying in the Oak Ridge tech corridor? There are many small equipment engineering firms there that need programmers. It's niche work but beats Papa John's. vvvv Suspicious Dish is not the job seeker in question. Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Aug 18, 2013 |
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Aug 18, 2013 06:58
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Suspicious Dish posted:Work can be hard to find in this economy. actually its dead simple easy to find right now but you have to (now bear with me here) you have to go to where the jobs are. your profile says you're in boston. there should be plenty of jobs available. if this is not the case, consider moving to the bay area, where all the technology is. the market for programmers - even ones fresh out of school, assuming they're not brain dead - is super hot. If you have a CS degree and you're making pizzas, then something has gone seriously loving wrong vis a vis your career plans. Step One: write a loving code. either something cool on your own or fix some irritating bug(s) in a high-vis open sores project. Step Two: put that poo poo on your resume in place of papa fuckin johns. I dont know how long you've been out of school but if you've been makin pizzas for like years after you graduated, then its time to get creative and explain what you've been doing with yourself in that time. Maybe you've done some contracting, maybe you tried to start your own business and failed (we all have). But do not let on that you've been makin' fuckin pizzas. Step Three: Go where the jobs are and get one.
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Aug 18, 2013 07:09
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Strong Sauce posted:I guess I should ask, "did you graduate and then worked at Papa Johns for 5 years?" Because that is probably a dealbreaker. No, I worked to pay my way through college, but it has been a couple years since I graduated. I didn't stay there by choice though. Same for staying in TN, I don't have the resources to get out. rotor posted:your profile says you're in boston. there should be plenty of jobs available. if this is not the case, consider moving to the bay area, where all the technology is. the market for programmers - even ones fresh out of school, assuming they're not brain dead - is super hot. If you have a CS degree and you're making pizzas, then something has gone seriously loving wrong vis a vis your career plans. Actually, I'm the one who delivered pizza. But your advice... it's terrible. I struggle where I am in Tennessee, I definitely can't just pack up and move to the other side of the country where the rent is ridiculous and I don't have a job.
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Aug 18, 2013 09:31
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Zero The Hero posted:No, I worked to pay my way through college, but it has been a couple years since I graduated. I didn't stay there by choice though. Same for staying in TN, I don't have the resources to get out. First off, good on you for paying college by yourself. I think the problem is you are not confident enough in your own ability to get things done and you're worried about your inexperience. The problem as I see it is you are not doing anything to erase that inexperience. Are you working on your own code, taking courses through a MOOC, or posting some code to GitHub and/or committing source code to open source projects? Having a degree is nice and all but you need more than that. Finding a job is always difficult and is usually stressful for most people, but the only way to find one is to actually just grind it out and start applying for jobs you think you'd be qualified for, and when you get an interview, don't stop applying to other jobs. If any company wants you to fly out, they should be paying for pretty much everything (unless you stay longer than 1 day/1 night to visit friends) except for maybe food expenses but even then you'll probably get a free meal out of the interview. I read some of your older posts and you're thinking about accepting 40k offers. I don't know what the CoL is for where you're living but even bad "Enterprise" jobs pay more than that in the tech cities. You don't have to move out to the Bay Area for a tech job. There is Seattle, Portland, Austin that are pretty affordable. Hell living in Southern California (LA/OC) the prices are not "insane" (unless I guess if you settle for a 40k salary there). Even if you cannot move out of Tennessee for some reason, there are still people programming (in Nashville at least). Just looking for Nashville Ruby Meetup landed me this: http://www.meetup.com/nashvillerails/. What you need to do is find what you want to do in terms of software development, look for meetups about that subject and just go to them and start networking. Talk to people for 5 minutes, then ask them if their company has any openings. I don't know what your financial situation is that you have to continue to deliver pizza, but you need to start doing something else that will make yourself more appealing to companies as a programmer. Either that is getting a job, writing up some code, whatever, you just need to start doing it.
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Aug 18, 2013 10:14
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Little known tech city: Victoria, Canada. Over 2300 tech companies, and counting(in a city with far less than half a million people.)
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Aug 18, 2013 10:24
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rotor posted:actually its dead simple easy to find right now but you have to (now bear with me here) you have to go to where the jobs are. Yes, I'm lucky to live in such a thriving city, and have such an amazing job. Others are less fortunate. But yeah, if you apply to pretty much any tech company, they'll fly you out, and if you're finding trouble getting lodging, they'll put you up in a hotel for a few months while you hunt, or with a lot of SF startups, they'll let you stay at the owner's house for a bit.
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Aug 18, 2013 12:39
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I got my first job out of college by a friend who was interning at a place. He was leaving to go back to school, and they wanted someone to replace him full-time, so he gave me a call. Networking is important. Find a local user group for your language of choice. Start showing up and talking to people. Maybe sign up to do a talk yourself. I've presented at user groups a grand total of twice, and I ended up at an interview recently where the interviewer told me he had been at one of the two talks I did, and decided to call me because of it. New Yorp New Yorp fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Aug 18, 2013 |
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Aug 18, 2013 14:53
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Gazpacho posted:A PM at Microsoft is not a dev role, period. If you're Interviewing on the belief that it is then there's been a serious miscommunication. PMs are responsible for the product considered as a set of end-user features. They decide what those features will be, how they rank in business value, and how to modify them as needed to meet the schedule. I didn't mean to imply that I thought a PM and Dev did similar things. I'm just trying to get a better sense of what being a PM is like, at MS. I expressed specific interest in working on high-level security architecture stuff for Windows 8 Mobile so your second paragraph makes sense in that respect. I recognize that I will learn most by asking questions during my interview(s) but it doesn't hurt to try and learn more beforehand.
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Aug 18, 2013 16:21
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Sitting Bull posted:Little known tech city: Victoria, Canada. Over 2300 tech companies, and counting(in a city with far less than half a million people.) And 90% of them are servicing the provincial government!
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Aug 18, 2013 17:25
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Zero The Hero posted:. But your advice... it's terrible. I struggle where I am in Tennessee you struggle where you are in Tennessee because you have a degree in computer science and you live in Tennessee. There are no computer jobs there. figure out a way to get to the Big City and go there. Find a company willing to fly you out, stay on couches, go there in a van and live in the van, whatever you gotta do. That's my advice. Or you can keep being the guy with a computer science degree who delivers pizzas. You're stuck somewhere that your degree does you no good. You have my sympathies, I was too once upon a time. But you can change that. Stop complaining about "the economy" because the economy is only poo poo where you are. Move.
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Aug 18, 2013 18:42
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rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:And 90% of them are servicing the provincial government!  Seriously though, I'll probably be considering Victoria in a few years... good to hear there's at least something of a tech community.
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Aug 18, 2013 19:15
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rotor posted:you struggle where you are in Tennessee because you have a degree in computer science and you live in Tennessee. There are no computer jobs there. rotor is spot on. i basically just listed school and personal projects on my resume and got a lot of interviews and a decent amount of offers in the west coast. also, many bigger companies will at least let you phone screen or fly you out if you don't have the money to move out yet. so don't just apply locally.
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Aug 18, 2013 20:43
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rotor posted:There are no computer jobs there. Yes, Tennessee sucks, but there are some jobs here.
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Aug 18, 2013 20:48
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Krenzo posted:Yes, Tennessee sucks, but there are some jobs here. Some, yes. Lots, no. Take a look at careers.stackoverflow.com... California: 406 jobs. New York: 250. Washington (state): 130 Tennessee. 11 Of course, Maine has 0 jobs on SO.
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Aug 18, 2013 21:00
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There has got to be some businesses in even the redneckiest states that require some internal development, like an intranet, homebrew CRM, etc? SO job postings are probably mostly hip software companies, eh?
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Aug 18, 2013 22:12
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I checked SO careers where I live and there are a whopping 3 listings from companies I've never heard of, in spite of the fact that there certainly appear to be plenty of jobs here. At least here, if you go the post-presentation beer hour at any JS/Ruby/Mobile developer hipster meetup, you're doing something wrong if someone doesn't tell you about at least one opening at a company you might actually want to work for. I imagine these companies are not posting on SO Careers or anywhere else because they don't really have to.
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Aug 18, 2013 22:36
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Ithaqua posted:Some, yes. Lots, no. http://www.dice.com/job/results/tn/us?caller=advanced&src=19&x=all&p=sw Search results: 1 - 30 of 786
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Aug 18, 2013 22:36
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Sitting Bull posted:http://www.dice.com/job/results/tn/us?caller=advanced&src=19&x=all&p=sw
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Aug 18, 2013 22:38
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genki posted:Ooooh, that sounds exciting and cutting edge. Yep. Many of the apps I support still run on a Java 1.4 stack. That said, I still get to do some reasonably modern (if not interesting) projects. Some branches of the government are more modern than others. I'm probably painting things as more dire than they actually are. There are probably plenty of interesting jobs here, I just haven't really looked since I got here.
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Aug 18, 2013 22:43
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