|
Ah, cool, thanks! Now our party hacker can crash a concrete truck into the scaffolding tower and send the snipers plummeting to their doooooom!
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 06:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 21:14 |
|
|
children overboard posted:Ah, cool, thanks! Now our party hacker can crash a concrete truck into the scaffolding tower and send the snipers plummeting to their doooooom! Why do that when you can hack the rifles and mess with their IFF systems? Have the snipers take out the ground resistance FOR YOU. ...and then doom them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 08:00
|
|
|
Gobbeldygook posted:1. Don't take PierreTheMime's suggestion. This only works with small numbers of weak grunts. After a point, running with every enemy going on one init can result in the entire group being wiped out in one initiative pass. 1. When he mentioned major NPCs separately I figured that meant major threats got their own roll and this was the roll for the chaff. It's all based on the number of threats available--I didn't mean roll every single enemy into a single initiative. Break it up into blocks of initiative if your 'Runners are fighting numerous enemies. If your players are fighting 25 Knight Errant guards I highly doubt most GMs would track each NPC initiative separately. 2. I was assuming these quick rolls were for the GM only, not the players. I've never actually seen a GM roll for all their players, but I guess it might happen somewhere. I'm of the opinion that whatever happens behind the GM screen stays behind it and fudging rolls here and there to streamline the gaming process can be an effective time-saver. Like I said though, I roll all the dice normally. 4. That's a really good suggestion to keep things streamlined using contacts if the GM wants to free up time by not dealing with vending items. Easier for players to keep track of too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 12:40
|
|
|
Piell posted:
This is correct, and it makes me question why I should ever take Longarms or Pistols since Automatics can do it all so easily. For instance, your non-combat Single Action can be Take Aim, which increases your combat DP or adds +1 to Accuracy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 12:48
|
|
|
Because shotguns and heavy pistols are cool. That is the reason.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 14:34
|
|
|
404GoonNotFound posted:Why do that when you can hack the rifles and mess with their IFF systems? Have the snipers take out the ground resistance FOR YOU. No, he was correct in the pink mohawk approach. It was way better his way.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 14:39
|
|
|
Well prior to 4th it was because shotguns and heavy pistols, in the hands of a skilled gunslinger, were significantly more dangerous per shot. Now with this whole HP-but-we're-not calling-it-that-style damage system automatics and longarms have an advantage again in damage output. Now heavy pistols just have the conceal-ability advantage over longarms.... and do shotguns still do spreading? I can't find the shotgun rules in the book.
Kwyndig fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Aug 17, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 14:40
|
|
|
Kwyndig posted:Well prior to 4th it was because shotguns and heavy pistols, in the hands of a skilled gunslinger, were significantly more dangerous per shot. Now with this whole HP-but-we're-not calling-it-that-style damage system automatics and longarms have an advantage again in damage output. Now heavy pistols just have the conceal-ability advantage over longarms.... and do shotguns still do spreading? I can't find the shotgun rules in the book. Yeah, shotguns can give a penalty to dodge (though at penalties to damage at mid and long range), as well as being the only way to hit two enemies at once without splitting your dicepool. With sniper rifles being kings of damage since there aren't narrow bursts anymore, longarms are just as viable as automatics. Pistols have the advantage of being concealable and more etiquette-appropriate - lots more places will let you in carrying a pistol than ones that will let you in carrying an assault rifle.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 14:51
|
|
|
If I had to pick one combat skill for a combat character, I'd still pick automatics. You get machine pistols for when concealability is at a premium and assault rifles when you need to throw down with SMGs occupying an uneasy middle ground. With the way armor is now, carrying around a ballistic shield and using an SMG one-handed is a totally valid choice. Longarms are the kings of damage. Sadly, the only concealable weapon that uses Longarms, the short-barreled T250 shotgun, cannot use a silencer. Longarms used to be the only real choice for a samurai that wanted to pop a high-force spirit, but with the change to weapon power, even Force 8+ spirits can be put down without fuss with ye olde ares alpha.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 15:28
|
|
|
I might like longarms more once the weapon mod rules come out because having only the T-250 as "concealable" really sucks but maybe they will have a pistol grip mod to help it. As it stands, you're carrying around a full-sized shotgun with a shortened barrel and giant shoulder stock. Not exactly discrete. Machine Pistols, specifically the Steyr, are as good as or better than any regular pistol except a few heavy pistols and the only difference there is -1 AP and maybe +1 DMG (ok, the Warhawk is "better" at 9P -2AP but it is also single shot only. The Steyr can fire full auto with APDS at 7P -14AP.) BF/FA is really good if you use it correctly, and there is pretty much zero point in ever firing in SS or SA modes unless it's all you have. BF is a -2 AP on top of whatever the gun already has and is trivially easy to negate with a Gas Vent 3. In fact the Machine Pistols are so good I don't see any reason to ever use SMGs over them - other than occasionally an Ingram with the magical Suppressor/Gas Vent combo, or the Forbidden Praetor, but why use those when ARs are better across the board? MPs only problem is a lack of recoil comp (the best is +4, a Ceska with gas vent 3 and the folding stock) and Accuracy, but Accuracy limit is really easy to get around. I suppose using Light Pistol ranges kind of sucks, but it's not much worse than Heavy Pistol and closing distance is really easy to do if needed. Of course this is all my opinion only but the lack of balance between the weapon categories is really poor. Bigass Moth fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Aug 17, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 15:54
|
|
|
dirtycajun posted:No, he was correct in the pink mohawk approach. It was way better his way. Wait, the concrete truck is full of explosives in this plan, right? That way you can doom the snipers and the mooks all at once! The mirrorshades/pink mowhawk split is pretty funny to me. In our group, we borrowed the Spoon->Fork->Knife system from some old show (movie?) to describe the style we were aiming for with any given run It goes as follows: Spoon: Minimal violence, high stealth. Pretty similar to the mirrorshades approach, the plan is for the target to not know they've been hit until we're gone. Normally, a lot of planning happens. Backup plan involves gel rounds in most cases. Fork: What happens when spoon goes wrong, or when the plan is to shoot a few guards at the objective. Non-lethal if feasible. Sometimes the result of the team not being able to get enough info to pull off spoon, or just not having a solid face character. Most of the planning revolves around the getaway. Plans are often "Okay, so we get in by faking being (whatever), get to (objective), then fight our way out to get to (getaway plan)" Knife: "Alright, so I'm going to rappel down the building, blow out the window, and secure (objective). You guys come in from (place) ahead of time to distract the guards. We meet up at (other place), and escape via (exit strategy). No sweat!" Still trying to avoid civilian casualties, or stand-up fights of any kind. Hammer: A later tack-on, this is where Gauss rifles, Krime Cannons, and trucks full of fertilizer bomb happen. Mostly occurs when maximizing damage in addition to whatever objectives are requested, when damage is the objective, or when the team just doesn't give a gently caress anymore. My favorite instance involved a ritzy costume party, a full-auto grenade launcher, and the group very publicly faking their deaths. One ill-fated instance of this style is responsible for universally installed anti-vehicular planters in front of every building in the Seattle Metroplex. EDIT: Formatting. OB_Juan fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Aug 17, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2013 16:28
|
|
|
I wanted to roll a Techno for a while, but after I read the rules for Adept Powers I want to try rolling a stupidly good Adept/Stealth-decker. It's basically a decker with 16 dice for normal non-edge Hacking rolls. I have a couple questions. -I want to emphasize [Sleaze] over [Attack]. Can I completely disregard attack and just get by with Sleaze actions? Also, can I ignore cybercombat? -This build has B priority resources. Do I need the super-nice deck to be a viable decker, or can I just spring for the 110K Mexican one [5,4,3,2]. -Outside of decking, I want to just take single shots with a powerful gun spending my 8-edge points where necessary. What would happen if I got a really sick attack roll (edge included) with a medium-choke shotgun against several targets? -Does cyberware count as devices? Can i use Spoof Command on an enemies cyberware? Hot Yellow KoolAid fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Aug 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 01:17
|
|
|
You can sort of get by with a low cybercombat skill. You'll end up leaning pretty heavily on the Hack on the Fly action. If you keep winning rolls to place marks, you'll never have to fight an ICE, and the host won't know you're there. That said, get an agent, because the come with a cybercombat skill, and sometimes the fight comes to you. May as well buy a Good Deck at the start, you'll not have the money to buy a replacement any time soon. (or you could go kill some other decker, I guess...) Earlier in the thread, someone was talking about getting a headware one as used cyberware for the discount. [It would be (5000+deck)*0.75] I think that technically works, but an argument could be made that you only get the discount on the 5000. Also, you will lose a matrix run some day, and when your deck blows up, it will be in your head. Ware is devices. You can spoof some 'ware, but it will depend on the type of 'ware and the GM as to how effective that is. You can't wreck someone's bones with there bone lacing, but you might be able to convince the bonelacing to call them an ambulance because their bones are out of whack. As for the shotgun thing, the targets would roll their defense, and probably take damage. Remember though, shot does not do well vs armor, and anyone worth shooting is wearing armor.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 02:38
|
|
|
Hot Yellow KoolAid posted:I wanted to roll a Techno for a while, but after I read the rules for Adept Powers I want to try rolling a stupidly good Adept/Stealth-decker. It's basically a decker with 16 dice for normal non-edge Hacking rolls. I have a couple questions. 1. You might be able to get by but I would really recommend against it. You could still contribute to fights with Format Device & Control Device (especially with the Fork program), but unlike OB_Juan I wouldn't be comfortable with handing over all cybercombat duties to an Agent. If an Attack action fails, you also take one irresistable Matrix damage per hit scored on the defense test. Agents share your health pool. 2. Deck quality is most important for cybercombat. As an alternative, consider resources A/skills B/attributes C/magic D/race E (or reverse skills/attributes). You can start with the best deck around, a rating 2 cerebral enhancer (+2 logic), a datajack (+1 noise reduction), and two points worth of adept powers. If you took Aptitude for a skill (hacking, electronic warfare, etc), you could start off with +4 to that skill. 3. I don't understand your question. The rules are pretty clear on how shotguns work. 4. Yes. Cyberware are devices that you can use Spoof, Control Device, Dataspike, etc on.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 03:04
|
|
|
To rephrase the shotgun question: If I preemptively use edge on a ranged combat roll against a couple of lightly armored targets with a shotgun, and git a really high number of hits (exploding dice, etc), is this going to mitigate their armor and do a ton of damage? Also, can I use Improved Ability to get more than 12 effective points invested in a skill?
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 03:39
|
|
|
Hot Yellow KoolAid posted:To rephrase the shotgun question: If I preemptively use edge on a ranged combat roll against a couple of lightly armored targets with a shotgun, and git a really high number of hits (exploding dice, etc), is this going to mitigate their armor and do a ton of damage? Yes - your net hits over their defense are added to your DV before you take armor into account for soak and stun damage. If your modified DV is higher then their modified armor (remember, when using shot they add +4 to their armor) then you do physical damage - otherwise, you use stun. Of course, keep in mind, even if you do end up just doing stun, you can still potentially do enough stun to come lose to knocking them out, and an unconscious enemy is just as down as a dead one is. To your second question: yes. It's poorly worded but, assuming it works the same as it did in 4e, Improved Ability can add an additional "half" to your skill. So with a skill of 6, it an add +3; ith a skill of 12, it an add +6 (with enough points and enough Magic). For the absolute best expert ever the world has ever seen and will ever seen, and will never be beaten at anything, ever, you can take Aptitude, make your skill 13, and, because everything in Shadowrun but essence rounds up, take Improved Ability +7, and end up with a base skill of 20 before any other modifiers.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 04:09
|
|
|
Did spurs get re-imagined at some point or am I just misremembering them? I'm skimming the 5E pdf and they're described as Wolverine-style back of hand/between knuckles blades, but for the past two decades or so I've been imagining them as longer, single blades that extend out of your forearms. Pretty sure that was even backed up with the 'Hatchetman special' which was just a spur mounted backwards that extended out and back from your forearm (ie past your elbow, not towards your hand). It's also weird that adding a weapon to a cyberlimb costs more essence but 'cyberlimb accessories' don't cost anything but nuyen. I'm not sure there's an appreciable difference between the amount of brain-wiring a cyber holster needs compared to hand razors. And speaking of holsters, they really stood out to me as something that's really trying to push the 'keep your wireless on' thing. Wireless on? Gun is out as a free action. Wireless off? Simple Action. How exactly does that work when cyberlimbs explicitly have a built-in neural interface so the command you send to pop the holster isn'y going to be in any way wireless to begin with?  e: And they got rid of smartgun palm-pads? If you don't want to run it wireless you're expected to have a datajack and plug the gun into it (in the case of an implanted smartgun system)?  VVV: I guess I should clarify that all of my SR experience before now has been with 2E; I've never touched 3E/4E so I guess that's my answer, in one of those editions spurs were re-imagined. WarLocke fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Aug 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 05:15
|
|
|
WarLocke posted:Did spurs get re-imagined at some point or am I just misremembering them? I'm skimming the 5E pdf and they're described as Wolverine-style back of hand/between knuckles blades, but for the past two decades or so I've been imagining them as longer, single blades that extend out of your forearms. Pretty sure that was even backed up with the 'Hatchetman special' which was just a spur mounted backwards that extended out and back from your forearm (ie past your elbow, not towards your hand). In SR4 core, spurs are described as a variable number of blades extending from the wrist or knuckles.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 05:34
|
|
|
WarLocke posted:e: And they got rid of smartgun palm-pads? If you don't want to run it wireless you're expected to have a datajack and plug the gun into it (in the case of an implanted smartgun system)? Everything is wireless these days--a smartlink without an active internet connection isn't better than a laser sight, and a smartlink with an active internet connection but no wireless is basically you plugging your gun into a payphone. I mean, I guess you could...
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 05:43
|
|
|
Mystic Mongol posted:Everything is wireless these days--a smartlink without an active internet connection isn't better than a laser sight, and a smartlink with an active internet connection but no wireless is basically you plugging your gun into a payphone. Right, they removed the palm pads to 'force' you to make it wireless, when there's no real reason why something like a smartlink would need to be wireless in the first place. Argh, blah blah grognardy blah. Also what the gently caress is up with these cyberlimb rules? Jesus, just make it match your normal attributes, and if you want a single-limb boost for some weird reason you pay extra for it, done.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 05:46
|
|
|
WarLocke posted:Right, they removed the palm pads to 'force' you to make it wireless, when there's no real reason why something like a smartlink would need to be wireless in the first place. Alright, real answer: State of the Art Progression means the bonuses you used to get from Smartlinks aren't as big, and if you're using tech from 2nd edition instead of the new stuff you're only going to get a +1 bonus to your die pool. You can run a smartlink through some obsolete piece of crap palm link, but you won't get the +2 bonus from being able to rapidly access dozens of gun registries, psychological predictive programs, government databases of floorplans, and weather humidity updates, process all of that on a bunch of computers too powerful to fit on your person, and then instantly upload that information to your gun in the hundredth of a second before you fire. You can use a smartlink without all of that if you want, but then it's not as good. So there's a trade-off. This is in response to 4E (which you missed) where they tried to give hackers something to do in a firefight, hack the guns of the other side. But there was no reason to ever have wireless on on a gun (because that's dumb) so no one ever did. Now there IS a reason to have the wireless on, so people will and now hackers can hack and protect their team from other hackers instead of what they used to do--nothing. Think of it as incentivizing hackers to come along in combat, instead of hiding in the van. Your gun bunny is just as killy, but now the team poindexter has something to do. Or you can give up a single die from your 17 die pool and live off the grid, man, you don't trust the system, which is also cool. quote:Also what the gently caress is up with these cyberlimb rules? Jesus, just make it match your normal attributes, and if you want a single-limb boost for some weird reason you pay extra for it, done. gently caress, amen. But the 'weird reason' is to put agility 9 on a single arm and use that to shoot people, which no one can figure out if it's working as intended but it's certainly how it's used. e: You could also put a datajack in your hand, I guess? Mystic Mongol fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Aug 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 06:43
|
|
|
Mystic Mongol posted:This is in response to 4E (which you missed) where they tried to give hackers something to do in a firefight, hack the guns of the other side. But there was no reason to ever have wireless on on a gun (because that's dumb) so no one ever did. Now there IS a reason to have the wireless on, so people will and now hackers can hack and protect their team from other hackers instead of what they used to do--nothing. I gotta disagree here. Wireless on a gun is loving dumb, end of story. There is no reason for a wireless gun, ever. So in order to get people to leave their guns' wifi on (in order to 'give deckers something to do' in combat), they decided 'hey, you can leave wifi on and your gun will be just as good as it used to be, or you can turn it off and be penalized'. It is, to borrow a vidya game term, a nerf. All in the name of jamming in the totally unnecessary everything-is-wifi wireless matrix. Why do cybereyes in 2075 need a wifi connection to offsite servers to process images or whatever when 2050s cybereyes did it all themselves? Answer is because they need to be hackable so that the decker has something to do now that he's 'forced' to be there in person. It's a fix looking for a problem. If I ever ran a game (which I won't because I'm horribly out of practice) this is how I would houserule it: - Forget wireless. Everything gets its wireless bonus innately, but cannot be hacked by deckers on the fly. A wireless matrix makes sense, even AR to a certain degree. But a wireless Matrix is virtually identical to a wired one, just without the wires. There's no need to make every piece of equipment everywhere connected to it. - Technomancers are 'cyber-wizards'. They can't jack into the Matrix, but they can hack stuff in LOS using techno-magic powers. A Technomancer can make your gun eject its clip (even though it's not wifi enabled anymore) or crash the security camera in the corner or hack the maglock in front of him. What he can't do is jack into that corp's system and spoof every security camera at once and lock doors all over the building to keep physical security tied up. - Deckers can't do any of that fancy techno-hacking on the spot, instead they do all the actual VR decking, hitting up datastores, crashing systems, all the traditional decker stuff. I suppose it's probably a good thing I'm not a game designer. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 06:59
|
|
|
WarLocke posted:I gotta disagree here. Wireless on a gun is loving dumb, end of story. There is no reason for a wireless gun, ever. So in order to get people to leave their guns' wifi on (in order to 'give deckers something to do' in combat), they decided 'hey, you can leave wifi on and your gun will be just as good as it used to be, Stoppin' ya right there. It's not as good as it used to be, it's way better. A smartlink in offline mode is just as good as a smartlink from twenty years ago. A smartlink in online mode ALSO aggregates more information and procession power than any single device could possibly handle, then disseminates this information to the user in some easy-to-use-format that's compatable with their commlink, which is futuretech if I've ever heard it. It dosn't give as many dice, but we're not even playing the same system so who cares.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 07:07
|
|
|
Mystic Mongol posted:Stoppin' ya right there. It's not as good as it used to be, it's way better. A smartlink in offline mode is just as good as a smartlink from twenty years ago. A smartlink in online mode ALSO aggregates more information and procession power than any single device could possibly handle, then disseminates this information to the user in some easy-to-use-format that's compatable with their commlink, which is futuretech if I've ever heard it. I still don't see how a smartlink (if we're going to use this as an example) needs a constant Matrix connection to do things like measure angle of the barrel, bullet drop/trajectory, etc. I mean yeah, that's some calculation, but it's assumed to be included in the smartlink itself (or headware memory, except I think I read that in newer additions stuff is just assumed to have as much memory as it needs). Like, if you were getting +4 Int from an Encephalon or whatever, okay I can kinda see the 'borrow time from Cal-Tech's servers' thing. But for a gun, or cybereyes? Come on now. Anyway, I'll stop bitching. I'm sure I'm not the only old-timey stubborn rear end to bring it up. Need to read over the concealment/detection rules again to see if my samurai/face/infiltration expert character idea holds up mechanically, anyway. Mystic Mongol posted:gently caress, amen. But the 'weird reason' is to put agility 9 on a single arm and use that to shoot people, which no one can figure out if it's working as intended but it's certainly how it's used. I would never allow that. Gunplay is a full-body activity, and even if you could fire a gun while only using one arm, you'd be standing still and an easy target. And in any case this would trip my rules lawyering/munchkin min-max sense and get shut down if only for that. WarLocke fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Aug 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 07:13
|
|
|
WarLocke posted:I still don't see how a smartlink (if we're going to use this as an example) needs a constant Matrix connection to do things like measure angle of the barrel, bullet drop/trajectory, etc. I mean yeah, that's some calculation, but it's assumed to be included in the smartlink itself (or headware memory, except I think I read that in newer additions stuff is just assumed to have as much memory as it needs). That's what it does in offline mode. In online mode, it also sends photographs of the victim's faces to facial recognition databases, aggregates footage of them from security cameras across the nation, makes predictions based on how they've moved in the past, and adjusts the firing angle by a degree and half in anticipation of how it thinks they're moving and are likely to move in the future. It sends information about the temperature of the air around the gun to MITM servers where experimental programs use the structure of the room, position of air vents, and the shape and color of the furniture (shape and color of parts of furniture not visible retrieved from IKEA catalog) to predict the air temperature, breeze direction, and humidity of every cubic centimeter of the room and the effect this will have on the bullet's path. It reads your skin temperature and blood rate to compare against a history of previous similar shots you've fired to guess how you're going to handle the gun during the shot, making small, corrective electric currents course through the grip to help keep your palm steady. It compares the light sources in the room to the visible image, then feeds all that through a 3d modeling system to look for inconsistencies caused by dust, smoke, or heat mirage effects that may change the shot, and changes the internal view to better reflect the actual situation you're firing into. It does every little thing anyone ever thought might be useful to help aim, simultaneously and instantly, because it can call on machines, systems, and databases around the world. None of them are big, but collectively they help a tiny little bit. What's wrong with that? That's the future, man. It's super connected!
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 07:24
|
|
|
Mystic Mongol posted:What's wrong with that? That's the future, man. It's super connected! What's wrong with it is that it doesn't actually 'fix' the stated 'problem' (forcing deckers to be on-site and then giving them 'something to do') because people will just turn it off. On top of it being dumb in a conceptual sense for most stuff. So it would be simpler to just let those 'bonuses' just be the normal base for the gear and forget the wifi stuff entirely. IMO of course. Kai Tave posted:This got overlooked in your repeated complaining about wireless smartlinks This really wasn't necessary, you know. Thanks for the cyberweapon info, though. WarLocke fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Aug 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 07:36
|
|
|
WarLocke posted:Did spurs get re-imagined at some point or am I just misremembering them? I'm skimming the This got overlooked in your repeated complaining about wireless smartlinks but cyber-implant weapons don't cost essence if you put them in a cyberlimb, the essence costs are for if you put them in a meat limb. If they go in a cyberlimb then they take up capacity but the essence cost is ignored. If it doesn't state this clearly somewhere in the book itself then that's still how it's supposed to work, SR5 has bad editing. Also the description of spurs outright states "one to three blades," just for the record. Your spurs can look like whatever. WarLocke posted:What's wrong with it is that it doesn't actually 'fix' the stated 'problem' (forcing deckers to be on-site and then giving them 'something to do') because people will just turn it off. On top of it being dumb in a conceptual sense for most stuff. So it would be simpler to just let those 'bonuses' just be the normal base for the gear and forget the wifi stuff entirely. IMO of course. Look, you want to know the real answer why they changed it? Because VR-only decking loving sucks. It's a boring, unfun slog of the decker going off for 45 minutes to have a solo dungeon crawl using rarely-remembered fiddly rules while everyone else checks out to eat pizza and play WoW. I too got into Shadowrun around 2E and I remember "the decker problem" being Shadowrun's version of Vancian spellcasting as the number one thing everybody wanted to change, argue how to deal with, or flat-out ignore. So this is how they've attempted to fix it, by giving hackers poo poo to do that doesn't involve plugging your brain into a computer and slumping over like a vegetable. Or I guess we could go back to the good old days of "nobody wants to play a decker, time to hire an NPC." Most people aren't paranoid shadowrunners. If the GM is at all not being an antagonistic dick, he won't have everybody acting like one. Maybe some elite corporate hitsquads run without wireless (or other paranoid shadowrunners or similar types) but probably plenty of people do because it's convenient, because they like it, because they forget, or because they just plain old didn't think to, the same way plenty of people in real life don't always follow the optimal security procedure. Maybe they think having that extra edge is worth the typically minimal risk they'll run up against a hacker good enough to gently caress with their gear. There, that took 10 seconds of effort to justify. Why would they make wireless smartlinks? Because they're megacorporations and they do poo poo like that, gently caress you consumer, suck it up. Seriously, of all the dumb poo poo in Shadowrun people will trip over themselves to justify as verisimilitudinous the sudden obsoleting of old tech in favor of the shiny new (that maybe doesn't work the way you want it to) is maybe the most faithful-to-real-life thing they writers did. How many times has some software company (or hardware company for that matter) updated their poo poo in a way that has less functionality or broke things and it sucks but the old version isn't supported anymore? How many times has Google hosed with their stuff in a way that resulted in something worse without giving you the option of rolling it back? Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Aug 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 07:43
|
|
|
"The Decker Problem" is so much of a thing that I've seen it used in discussions about other games. poo poo, I knew what "The Decker Problem" was before I even played Shadowrun. Like, years before.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 08:29
|
|
|
WarLocke is actually right though, just in a backwards kind of way. Wireless hacking in Shadowrun thus far doesn't completely address the "decker problem" not because everyone will just run wireless off all the time but because the stuff it gives hackers to do often isn't worth the opportunity cost when you could be, y'know, throwing grenades or just shooting people in the face. Like, you could hack a guy's smartgun, that's cool...you could also toss some pepper punch grenades and gently caress a whole bunch of people and then it doesn't matter. That's not to say that wireless decker tricks are totally useless, but they're more situationally useful than you'd expect from something that has such a high buy-in cost to do. It'd be one thing if hackers in 4E and up really were the "computer wizards" people like to try and paint them as because mages also have a high buy-in but in exchange get to do an amazing variety of incredibly useful poo poo, and they don't have to hope that the GM put enough hackable things in the area for them to work with, they can just cast spells and summon spirits whenever and however they want.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 08:41
|
|
|
He's right that wireless guns are pointless. That's why you can buy any gun as a Throwback for no extra cost.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 13:35
|
|
|
Bigass Moth posted:He's right that wireless guns are pointless. That's why you can buy any gun as a Throwback for no extra cost. This stupid paranoia over DECKERS HACKING MY GUNZ is hilarious to me, because in the two or three turns it would take a decker to turn off your gun (once you have a good commlink to slave it to) is not really a threat when he could just be shooting you. A wireless smartgun gives +2 dice to hit and a couple other minor benefits, it is definitely useful.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 13:42
|
|
|
Piell posted:This stupid paranoia over DECKERS HACKING MY GUNZ is hilarious to me, because in the two or three turns it would take a decker to turn off your gun (once you have a good commlink to slave it to) is not really a threat when he could just be shooting you. A wireless smartgun gives +2 dice to hit and a couple other minor benefits, it is definitely useful. Hacking a gun during combat isn't a great idea, but doing it while the enemy doesn't know you're there is the real key to effective hacking.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 13:50
|
|
|
Bigass Moth posted:Hacking a gun during combat isn't a great idea, but doing it while the enemy doesn't know you're there is the real key to effective hacking. Turning wireless on is a Simple Action, you know the thing you are almost always going to have available unless you're firing full auto? There's no reason to go throwback, just leave the wireless off until you need it, the decker can't do poo poo if you have it off.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 13:55
|
|
|
Hackers hacking in-combat isn't a serious concern. A real worry is that wireless attacks don't care very much about LOS. A security decker can merrily brick runner's guns from the safety of his cubicle. You can also turn off a device's wireless as a free action, so if you detect your gibson being hacked or taking any matrix damage, you should just turn it off.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 14:06
|
|
|
Why hack some mook's gun? Hack a news chopper, park it on the mooks. Hack a nearby car, run him over. Hack a nearby mobile vending machine, have it absorb bullets for you. Hack his grenade. Boop. Hack his cybereyes. Blind. (goatse?) Hack his cyberears. Wubwubwubwub. Download a pirated Funky Chicken autosoft. Hack his skillwires. Check for a local sewage pressure release valve. Sure, he's not dead, but it's funny. (Bonus points - email mook's entire friends list a picture of this one.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 16:46
|
|
|
Seriously I've been playing a combat hacker type and in the last big gunfight we got into I spent more time doing poo poo like 'hey you said there were cars parked around here right? Ok cool gonna hack one near that rear end in a top hat with the machine gun and run him down' and making their sniper go blind and start hearing 'footsteps' coming all around him than I did just locking guns down and poo poo. I'm totally going to hack grenades next time though, I never even thought of that for some reason. If your team has a decker on it your GM should be actually playing up the major theme of Shadowrun that's 'the internet is in loving everything and that's just what life is now'. I mean, the books make it clear with their fluff comments and all that hackers doing poo poo like tripping a street full of car alarms to make a distraction and all is like a basic part of being a criminal decker. I guess yea it's always optimal to be shooting dudes with the exact best gun you can use, but by that logic every game should have one slot for a mage type, one slot for a guy with a bit of machine knowledge, and then the rest of the slots be for ranged adepts or whatever is the current best class.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2013 18:56
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:Why would they make wireless smartlinks? Because they're megacorporations and they do poo poo like that, gently caress you consumer, suck it up. Seriously, of all the dumb poo poo in Shadowrun people will trip over themselves to justify as verisimilitudinous the sudden obsoleting of old tech in favor of the shiny new (that maybe doesn't work the way you want it to) is maybe the most faithful-to-real-life thing they writers did. How many times has some software company (or hardware company for that matter) updated their poo poo in a way that has less functionality or broke things and it sucks but the old version isn't supported anymore? How many times has Google hosed with their stuff in a way that resulted in something worse without giving you the option of rolling it back? A Megacorp posted:Of course it's not online all time time. It just needs to check in once every 24 hours, or it'll brick itself. You know, to uh... cut down on theft? Look at all these other new features we're giving you, though! - An actual thing that happened
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 01:38
|
|
|
E: This post was dumb and added nothing.......
Hypha fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Aug 19, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 03:01
|
|
|
WarLocke posted:Did spurs get re-imagined at some point or am I just misremembering them? This has been covered basically, but they were also portrayed as Wolverine-style claws in the Sega Genesis game, which predates 3E.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 03:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 21:14 |
|
|
Random question, are the 5th edition rules fleshed out enough with just the core book to allow you to make a Mirror's Edge type of character? Preferably an adept.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2013 21:23
|
|
