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MadRhetoric posted:I'd say Nicki Minaj but Nicki Minaj. It also helps when they spew gratuitous profanity.
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Aug 18, 2013 03:40
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I just finished this show, and the pacing was loving awesome. I really can't say enough for it.  
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Aug 18, 2013 06:00
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Madoka Magica broke my heart, shattered it into pieces, and put it back together like a mosaic. I get the feeling that Gen, Urobuchi loves to mess with people. "You have feelings, you say?" 
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Aug 18, 2013 06:17
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Madoka Magica only moved my emotions strongly when Madoka asked Homura to kill her before she turned into a witch. Both of the voice actresses put on an astounding performance that was quite moving and whenever I see that scene I still get those same feelings. In general Madoka either TV or Movies (I think movies slightly improve upon a couple scenes) is not a slouch in the VA department. Regardless of that, I don't find this series to be that particularly hardcore on emotions compared to Clannad (which is the only piece of fiction so far to make me cry at all, let alone multiple times). Cubemario fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Aug 18, 2013 |
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Aug 18, 2013 06:39
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Cubemario posted:Clannad (which is the only piece of fiction so far to make me cry at all, let alone multiple times). Really? Grave of the Fireflies? War in the Pocket? That episode of Fresh Prince of Bel-Air with Will's dad?
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Aug 18, 2013 06:53
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Well I haven't seen all works of fiction yet mate. It's been ages since I saw that fresh prince episode to remember, and I haven't got around to those two films yet (despite being classics).
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Aug 18, 2013 07:09
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Bro Enlai posted:That episode of Fresh Prince of Bel-Air with Will's dad? I did not need to be reminded of that. One of his best performances. And I agree, Madoka and Homura's VAs did a spectacular job selling that scene. I've never thought that a Japanese VA did a good job. Not because they're bad, but because they're not really spectacular and I'm not here to judge the voice acting in a language/culture I don't know. But that scream...
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Aug 18, 2013 07:11
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I actually find that in certain aspects Japanese voice acting does better than what we get here in North America. There are always exceptional people, but generally NA falls short when it comes to very emotional stuff. Japanese VA are very good criers, screamers, and know to sell it when their character takes a mortal wound. I find it's often very unconvincing when contrasted with their dubbed counterparts. I'm not saying  superior or anything, but another key difference is the pool of voice actors we have over here in NA are very limited compared to what Japan can pull from.
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Aug 18, 2013 07:19
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Bro Enlai posted:Really? Grave of the Fireflies? War in the Pocket? That episode of Fresh Prince of Bel-Air with Will's dad? Anyway, to me Madoka Magica is more about thinking than feeling. It's hard to identify with the characters.
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Aug 18, 2013 07:33
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Bro Enlai posted:Really? Grave of the Fireflies? War in the Pocket? That episode of Fresh Prince of Bel-Air with Will's dad?
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Aug 18, 2013 13:03
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Mercrom posted:Are those even fair comparisons? Tragedy and loss isn't enough to make me cry, and the real tear jerker in Clannad is kind of the opposite of that. If that bit where Uncle Phil hugs Will doesn't make you cry then you're not human.
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Aug 18, 2013 14:05
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PerrineClostermann posted:I did not need to be reminded of that. One of his best performances. Great voice acting is still easy to pick out, even in Japanese. You don't have to know the language to hear it when a character's voice is completely on theme (think the main dude from Love Com) or they get emotion across in a really believable or funny way. Then you have the ones where the VAs are chewing on the scenery so hard that it comes across as super-obvious even if you're deaf, practically, like every character from TTGL. In my experience, the same isn't true of meh to bad voice acting though. It just comes across as either annoying or forgettable.
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Aug 18, 2013 14:30
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Mercrom posted:You could probably make a live action Madoka Magica adaptation about Baltimore gangsters. The magical girl thing is fluff.  
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Aug 18, 2013 14:58
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Bro Enlai posted:Really? Grave of the Fireflies? War in the Pocket? That episode of Fresh Prince of Bel-Air with Will's dad? Grave of the fireflies wrecked my poo poo so bad, I can never watch that movie ever again. From a performance stand point I really enjoyed the voice acting in PMMM. The emotional bits made me cry. I think english voice actors are definitely at a disadvantage in many ways when it comes to dubbing anime. Since PMMM was made, written, and conceived in Japan the Japanese voice actors get to work with the artistic teams' original words and under their direction. A lot of jokes/charm can be lost in translation since many things that the Japanese culture traditionally finds humorous, which gives us key insight about characters in a show, is exchanged for a joke that English speakers would find humorous that completely changes the original nature of the character that ends up delivering the line. Manga author Rumiko Takahashi said, "Sure, there are cultural differences in my work. When I see an American comedy, even though the jokes are translated, there's always a moment when I feel puzzled and think, ‘Ah, Americans would probably laugh at this more.' I suppose the same thing must happen with my books. It's inevitable. And yet, that doesn't mean my books can't be enjoyed by English-speaking readers. I feel confident that there's enough substance to them that people from a variety of cultural backgrounds can have a lot of fun reading them." All the voice actors in PMMM, the Japanese dub, really committed to the fight scenes as well. This is some of the most seamless blending of animated character and voice actor I have seen in a long time. My biggest moment was Sayaka and Madoka watching the violinist after they died. Audible sobs while shoveling ice cream.
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Aug 18, 2013 16:09
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Not sure about the voice acting scene differences between Japan and elsewhere, but at least one part of it is the original having a much better voice budget than any dub operation.
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Aug 18, 2013 16:42
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Gen Urobochi probably does not suffer from that problem, as it seems as if he has a huge boner for western culture. Heck, he made an eroge based on a B-movie about cyborgs or something. And his two main pieces, PMMM and Uta no Saya has inspirations from various mythologies that date back centuries, in the former Fäust and in the latter, possibly some Lovecraft. He seems to focus less on humor and more on what terrifies people though.
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Aug 18, 2013 21:11
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Cubemario posted:Regardless of that, I don't find this series to be that particularly hardcore on emotions compared to Clannad (which is the only piece of fiction so far to make me cry at all, let alone multiple times). I have to agree with him on this. Key shows are almost the only shows that have brought me to tears. I think Angel Beats did it twice actually. Casshern Sins had me on the verge of tears for the majority of the show. Compared to those, Madoka doesn't hit as hard, but it comes close.
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Aug 18, 2013 22:25
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Mordaedil posted:Gen Urobochi probably does not suffer from that problem, as it seems as if he has a huge boner for western culture. I think you're thinking of his Equlibrium fanfiction, which is not an eroge (unless you're turned on by men fighting to the death I guess?) and is not about cyborgs. Kikokugai has cyborgs in it, but is more inspired by wuxia. The cyberpunk stuff in that is mostly just setting fluff and to provide a plot macguffin.
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Aug 18, 2013 22:29
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ViggyNash posted:I have to agree with him on this. Key shows are almost the only shows that have brought me to tears. I think Angel Beats did it twice actually. Casshern Sins had me on the verge of tears for the majority of the show. Compared to those, Madoka doesn't hit as hard, but it comes close.
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Aug 19, 2013 00:10
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Takoluka posted:This has little to do with writing and everything to do with Jun Maeda's compositions. It's not so much that a scene is sad; it's that the scene is accompanied by sad violins and pianos, and that just kills you. I wouldn't say that the writing has little to do with it. The build up it always fantastic and the presentation of the moment is always brilliant, and that's why it hits so hard. But here's the main reason why Madoka doesn't hit as hard: it isn't trying to. The scene where Madoka asks Homura to shoot her soul gem is only a part of the compilation of scenes whose purpose is to sell the existential horror of Homura's life. Killing her best friend is only a part of Homura's larger breakdown. To me, the most powerful moments of the show come after Madoka's apotheosis, where Homura has to come to terms with a life where her best friend's very existence has been annihilated. The scene at the station, where she whispers, "Madoka..." and the other girls are only confused because they've never heard of her, even Mami whose life was saved by her actions; the scene where Homura talks with Madoka's mom and little brother who no longer remember her, despite once being family. The dramatic irony of knowing everything Homura does is what makes them so powerful.
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Aug 19, 2013 00:28
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It really depends on what tends to push your buttons. For instance, I have a tendency to tear up at bittersweet partings. Obviously Key stuff has plenty of that, but in Angel Beats, the only time I got teared up was at the graduation ceremony. None of the earlier stuff did, because it felt a bit forced to me (or maybe overly dramatic, not sure). Not Key or Madoka-related, but the scene in Dusk Maiden of Amnesia when Yuko fades away as she and Teichi write their farewells in the notebook is another great example that got me seriously teared up (nevermind the part right after that). In Madoka, the part that actually gets me teared up every time is when Madoka goes throughout time and history, saving all those magical girls from turning into witches (though not death) and letting them be at peace. The rest I feel is sad, but never makes me tear up.
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Aug 19, 2013 03:19
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Mason Dixon posted:It really depends on what tends to push your buttons. This is a good point. At the end of the day, emotional attachment and damage is all subjective. For me, existentialism is what really sets me off. That's probably why Angel Beats hit me so hard, since the surrealistic premise and setting lends its self extremely well extremely well to existentialism, and honestly deliberately went for it. Its the same reason Homura's post-apotheosis scenes hit me so hard. The part you mentioned, time-traveling Madoka saving all the MGs throughout history, it more heartwarming to me than it is heartwrenching. It brought a smile to my face rather than a tear to my eye.
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Aug 19, 2013 04:11
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ViggyNash posted:The part you mentioned, time-traveling Madoka saving all the MGs throughout history, it more heartwarming to me than it is heartwrenching. It brought a smile to my face rather than a tear to my eye. I actually agree. Bittersweet always involves both happiness and sadness, it's just that usually the mix is more heavily weighted towards sadness. This is one of those times it isn't, thus even though I'm more overjoyed than sorrowed, I still tear up. That swirl of contrasting emotions just gets me.
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Aug 19, 2013 04:23
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Man I'm pretty sad that I wasn't a part of the first thread while this was airing, that would've been fun.  What a great show.
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Aug 19, 2013 04:30
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I find myself unable to really distill Madoka into into a set of "this is what you're supposed to feel" emotional moments, and I think that's a credit to the show. It isn't like a Key work where every emotional cue is agonizingly transparent (disclaimer: I am not particularly fond of Key works not called Clannad: After Story, to put it kindly), it lets its characters, setting, and narrative flow at a steady pace and trusts the viewer to respond emotionally in their own way. It's not a "sad" show or a "tragic" show or a "happy" show, it's a show where exciting things happen and interesting things happen and wow I love this character and hate this character etc. etc. and every person watching gets swept up in the narrative on their own terms. I'm sorry if this is unclear or doesn't make a lot of sense, it's difficult for me to really explain what makes Madoka work as well as it does on an emotional level, just that it's far more involving and nuanced than most works of entertainment and its extreme popularity and its ability to draw in people of many different tastes and preferences is a testament to that.
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Aug 19, 2013 04:52
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I think you're basically saying that Madoka is a different kind of show from Key adaptations. Madoka is defined by its tour-de-force narrative and its high quality of presentation. Key adaptations are defined by their deeply emotional drama. Madoka's goal is to tell a fascinating and meaningful story. Key adaptations seek to tell an emotionally moving tale. Essentially, Madoka is focused on the end game while Key adaptations are focused on its moments.
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Aug 19, 2013 05:11
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It's more that Key media and adaptations are designed to be overly dramatic. Everything is carefully calculated (carefully might be too much credit) to induce the most pity/empathy for whatever cute girl strikes your fancy. Even Planetarian, something I really enjoy, included a character that existed almost solely to induce a powerful but simple emotional response. They're sad girls in the snow/future dystopia/modern day with pretty ridiculously complex backstories. Several of them border on Mary Sue territory, and that's intended. Madoka, on the other hand, seems to be trying to produce a narrative that doesn't rely on expected responses to overly familiar tropes and archetypes. None of the characters are almost fully explained by archetypes like the Tsundere, the Genki Girl, the shrinking violet, the Kuudere, etc. Homura may be the closest (mysterious transfer student, kuudere/cool kid), but even she's multifaceted and not in a way that you see in most shows. All media reuses ideas and tropes from previous media, but Madoka didn't embrace them unabashedly. It doesn't go for a quick one-and-done response. I used to like Key shows, but the more I think about them the less I like them. At this point I'd even be ok with studios trying to emulate Madoka simply because Madoka was a legitimate effort to produce something that stands on its own merits. I'd love to watch more shows that do the things Madoka did. At least, until those copycats run Madoka's tropes and archetypes into the ground and turn them into something as expected as Key's series currently are.
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Aug 19, 2013 05:44
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I'm pretty resistant against things that's suppose to make me cry but that drat scene in that field in Clannad: Afterstory broke me. Even on repeat viewing it's a struggle to get through it intact. Even if most things don't make me cry I don't mind emotional scenes. If they're built up to. I feel like the last episode of Angel Beats! would have been much better if that show had more than 13 episodes. It's funny whereas I point to that show as one where I most felt like they needed more episodes, Madoka is probably the best anime I've watched the got enough character development, enough action, enough twists in 13. Most impressive thing about it for me.
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Aug 19, 2013 06:21
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jonjonaug posted:I think you're thinking of his Equlibrium fanfiction, which is not an eroge (unless you're turned on by men fighting to the death I guess?) and is not about cyborgs. Ah, right, I was trying to get to both, but I couldn't get Equilibrium to work and Kikokugai was troubling to start and the first scene basically made me kinda back away slowly. Maybe I ought to give it a try, but it scares me so.
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Aug 19, 2013 09:43
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Speaking of Clannad, how best to start with it? Can I jump straight into AS and get my emotional fix, or will I need to slog through the initial Clannad? And what happens if I'm revolted by their KEY faces, do they get any better?
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Aug 19, 2013 11:25
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The Key faces don't get any better. If they're too much for you, don't bother trying to force yourself to continue. Personally I think watching AS without the original series is a mistake, but a friend of mine absolutely hated the high school setting enough that he skipped to AS just a couple episodes in, and thought it was really good.
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Aug 19, 2013 11:46
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So be it, my expectations have been tempered. I guess I shall be doomed to never know the purported joy that is Clannad.
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Aug 19, 2013 12:26
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Phobophilia posted:Speaking of Clannad, how best to start with it? Can I jump straight into AS and get my emotional fix, or will I need to slog through the initial Clannad? And what happens if I'm revolted by their KEY faces, do they get any better? There's a couple of good arcs in Clannad so I'd say watch that first. Also, you will be confused as hell when Fuko randomly pops out of nowhere if you don't know her backstory from Clannad. And the faces don't get much better. I just laughed off how silly they are and watched for the story. If you really want to watch, just ignore the faces and look at their hair to identify the individual girls.
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Aug 19, 2013 12:43
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Phobophilia posted:Speaking of Clannad, how best to start with it? Don't watch the old one, try your very best to ignore the huge distance between the eyes and just watch it from beginning I guess. Half the tears from Clannad comes from the emotional build-up gotten from watching the show from the beginning after all. You can't go wrong as long as you don't question why you are watching it. It also helps if you find the main character funny, I guess.
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Aug 19, 2013 14:16
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Phobophilia posted:Speaking of Clannad, how best to start with it? Can I jump straight into AS and get my emotional fix, or will I need to slog through the initial Clannad? And what happens if I'm revolted by their KEY faces, do they get any better? I'm also of the opinion that you need to watch the first season. You most certainly will not get the same impact by skipping a season. Not to mention the first season features several vital bits which are important to understanding the ending and general themes of the show. I didn't find the first season a slog to get through. The Fuko arc which gears in around the start of the show and ends somewhere around the 6th episode is probably the weakest part of the series, but isn't particularly long to get through (but for some it feels long). Regardless of that, I feel that it still plays an important role, much like the whole first season does. Season one steadily improved for me as I went through it.
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Aug 19, 2013 18:16
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Cubemario posted:I'm also of the opinion that you need to watch the first season. You most certainly will not get the same impact by skipping a season. Not to mention the first season features several vital bits which are important to understanding the ending and general themes of the show. I didn't find the first season a slog to get through.  That was my favorite arc of the first season... Hell, it's why I kept watching.
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Aug 19, 2013 23:45
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I found out this was available on Hulu and got through it in two days. I loved it! Episode 10 blew my mind and made Homura into probably one of my favorite characters ever. The pacing and buildup of the show was just perfect. You start off thinking it's just another cute magical girl show but by the end ... well, you know. I need to get ahold of the movies too it sounds like. A place in town showed 1 and 2, I'm hoping they'll show 3 too.
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Aug 21, 2013 20:52
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HondaCivet posted:I found out this was available on Hulu and got through it in two days. I loved it! Episode 10 blew my mind and made Homura into probably one of my favorite characters ever. The pacing and buildup of the show was just perfect. You start off thinking it's just another cute magical girl show but by the end ... well, you know. I need to get ahold of the movies too it sounds like. A place in town showed 1 and 2, I'm hoping they'll show 3 too. Oh hey, new blood. Episode 10 is probably up there as one of the best single episodes out there; it's very revealing, entertaining despite dumping a lot of info on the viewers, and casts the entire show before it into a new light (especially the first episode). I personally love it because, despite how telegraphed it might be, episode 10 was the first time I ever correctly predicted a serious plot reveal in a show that is trying to seriously tell a story without relying entirely on cliches. Good stuff, glad to hear you liked it. Speaking of the movies, I need to find out when 3 is released.
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Aug 21, 2013 22:22
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I love seeing new reactions as much as anybody, but my hopes keep getting dashed every time I see the thread get bumped and it's not to reveal the US showtimes and locations for the third movie.
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Aug 21, 2013 22:33
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Mason Dixon posted:I love seeing new reactions as much as anybody, but my hopes keep getting dashed every time I see the thread get bumped and it's not to reveal the US showtimes and locations for the third movie.  It isn't even out in Japan yet though, right? How soon could we hear news? I have a question about Homura actually... I love how she doesn't have any real offensive powers and thus has to use real guns and bombs to fight. She starts off beating barrels with a golf club but it seems like she does eventually develop some other powers, like using her time thing as a shield and I think we see some levitation/flying in the Walspurginacht-or-whatever fight. Then after the Madokapocalypse she's got a cool bow? Do magical girls just get more powerful over time or what?
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Aug 21, 2013 23:07
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