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Saisons are crowd pleasers across the board if they don't go into the 6.5%+ realm. Beer geeks like them and they're pretty accessible for mainstream folks as well. I feel that any brewery that opens up and stays away from the lager/pale/amber/brown/porter/stour line up will do fine. Just have several pretty different styles, an overhopped IPA to shut everybody up and do things well. If you have to call your beers lager/amber/brown you're doing it wrong. If you come out with a german helles, an amber 80/- and a french brown saison you're doing it right.
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Aug 22, 2013 13:16
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A wheat beer, fruited or not, is also a crowd pleaser. Berliner Weiss are blowing up around here as well.
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Aug 22, 2013 13:23
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Make a Grisette and a Kvass and you'll be so far ahead of the game. Instant buzz.
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Aug 22, 2013 13:49
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crazyfish posted:Worth it. I don't even know why I mentioned price, it's not like I haven't spent $25 on a great beer before. I'll check out the Tilquin next time I see it, thanks for the recommendation. As for crowd pleasers, I've always felt that more brewers should brew a complex malt base for an amber ale and throw lots of late hops to get a nice aroma and flavor. It's a shame most brewers put out really lovely amber colored ales that have nothing interesting at all about them. A good amber ale is really something I enjoy.
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Aug 22, 2013 13:56
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HatfulOfHollow posted:Make a Grisette and a Kvass and you'll be so far ahead of the game. Instant buzz. Please tell me you are not talking about my little old Ukrainian grandmother's closet hooch, aka fermented bread.
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Aug 22, 2013 14:18
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Eejit posted:Please tell me you are not talking about my little old Ukrainian grandmother's closet hooch, aka fermented bread. That's exactly what I'm talking about good sir! I could see it being a super light sessionable summer beverage.
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Aug 22, 2013 14:24
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HatfulOfHollow posted:That's exactly what I'm talking about good sir! I could see it being a super light sessionable summer beverage. Throw in a couple of moldy raspberries while you're at it. Girls love that fruity poo poo. I wonder how many people would be able to tell it apart from Lineys at that point.
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Aug 22, 2013 14:35
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HatfulOfHollow posted:That's exactly what I'm talking about good sir! I could see it being a super light sessionable summer beverage. Tired Hands did one. It wasn't bad. I liked it. I also think it had about as much to do with real kvass as Anchor does with the steam beer that it's named after.
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Aug 22, 2013 14:53
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Kudosx posted:Quetsche Tilquin was worth every penny I paid for it. I'm drinking quite a few sours tomorrow with some coworkers, including Gueuze Tilquin and a Drie Fonteinen Gueueze. I've never tried the Gueuze Tilquin, although I have had Drie Fonteinen, and it is probably the best gueuze I've ever had. Quetsche is awesome and while expensive, I wound up buying 3 375s. I may crack one open tonight, actually. Have not had betelgueuze, but I have had chardonnay BA Funky Estar. It basically tastes like Jolly Pumpkin Oro de Calabaza but not as good, with this harsh twinge about it that makes it hard to drink (at least for me). If you have a non-BA version, it may be good. Midorka posted:I don't even know why I mentioned price, it's not like I haven't spent $25 on a great beer before. I'll check out the Tilquin next time I see it, thanks for the recommendation. I dunno about you, but there's a lot of beers I've had that I was like "this would be pretty good...if it weren't 25 bucks". Calvados BA Beer Geek Brunch Weasel, I'm looking at you. Great beer. Would not buy again at $17/250ml (or whatever the size of that bottle was).
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Aug 22, 2013 15:02
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Is Mango Magnifico worth $20 for a bottle? {And not unbearable like Spite?} lament.cfg fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Aug 22, 2013 15:15
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funkybottoms posted:yeah, maybe not the entire lineup, but it seems like Jackie O's is generally pretty desirable- i've done a fair amount of trading and asked about a number of their beers, but i don't think i've ever gotten one. As you well know, I live in Chicago, and as has probably been talked about a million times in this thread, there are a loving shitload of new breweries popping up in Chicago. It's actually pretty much impossible to keep up with them all. I'm going to contain any of my thoughts only to breweries that distribute bottles, so all the draft/growler only brewpubs (Haymarket, Atlas, Dryhop, etc.) are going to get ignored here. The hot poo poo beer styles here are basically: - Citra-heavy IPAs (and Galaxy, to a lesser degree). People here go absolutely loving mental for Citra beers. Zombie Dust barely sees a shelf. Every batch of Pipeworks Citra Ninja sells out very quickly. - Barrel-aged or otherwise flavoured stouts. Parabola never sits on a shelf. Bourbon County goes instantly. Pipeworks Abduction variants are, after Citra Ninja, their most popular beers. Unfortunately, it seems like more important for sales than anything in Chicago is buzz and hype. There is so much beer here, that I think a lot of people are reticent to try a new brewery because some of them churn out so many different beers (and *most* in expensive bombers) that it makes it very hard for a consumer to actually figure out what's good and what is dogshit, when the classic way to try a whole bunch of different beers from a brewery at a reasonable price (either the sampler flight or the mix-a-six) goes out the window because your only option is a $10 bomber that no one else wants to be the guinea pig for either because your brewery has no reputation and basically wants to ride the "drink local" bandwagon. I don't know what it's like for where your friends are located, funkybottoms, so none of this hype stuff may apply to them, but I thought I'd share just in case.
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Aug 22, 2013 15:21
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Daunte Vicknabb posted:I have been out of the trading game awhile I guess, I remember Jackie O's being pretty heavily sought after. Their sours are incredibly boring IMO, I've probably had 5-10 of them and they all basically tasted the same, similar to how I think most Bruery sours are boring. Not BAD, just boring. That's definitely a criticism I haven't heard before. I've heard lots of people say Cascade sours taste the same but not Bruery and Jackie O's. A while back I got Jackie O's Dynamo Hum, Cab Cherry Man, and Funky South Paw and they were all uniquely different and phenomenal, especially Funky South Paw. I really need to make it down there for a bottle release again, you really can't beat 30+ beers on tap, many being barrel aged stouts and sours. Me in Reverse posted:Is Mango Magnifico worth $20 for a bottle? Definitely not worth $20. I've seen it for $15 and thought it was worth $10 a bottle when I had it.
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Aug 22, 2013 15:22
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Me in Reverse posted:Is Mango Magnifico worth $20 for a bottle? I found it disgusting. Drank one glass and drain poured the rest. Sickly sweet but nice and spicy. Maybe I was spoiled by the Troegs triple mango.
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Aug 22, 2013 15:22
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Oh and on the subject of hype poo poo: mosaic hops are all the rage here as well.
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Aug 22, 2013 15:32
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I was in the mood for a stout for a while, and eventually I said to hell with it and bought some Guinness. Turns out I got the version that has a 97 on RateBeer, and it's actually pretty damned good. So that was a great surprise.
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Aug 22, 2013 15:42
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Captain Shortbus posted:A wheat beer, fruited or not, is also a crowd pleaser. Berliner Weiss seems like it's really taking off and breweries are rushing to all get in on the action. Beer nerds will love it if its made well, while it can still be more accessible than most other sours.
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Aug 22, 2013 15:59
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crazyfish posted:I don't know what it's like for where your friends are located, funkybottoms, so none of this hype stuff may apply to them, but I thought I'd share just in case. no, i'm appreciating all the responses, thank you. we (i included myself because they're picking my brain, as well) are pretty well-aware of a lot of what's been posted, but since starting a business is mega-complicated and the craft scene is growing so rapidly right now we felt it would be worth it to ask around to make sure we're not missing anything. keep it coming! for the record, this is in VA.
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Aug 22, 2013 16:00
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If I were opening a new brewery with a taproom, I'd probably make about 6 beers. I'd do an extra pale or an IPA, a saison, a Berliner Weisse, and then the last three taps would be rotating based on what was coming out of my barrels. I don't know how large their system is, but if I had the space I would replicate the poo poo out of Crooked Stave's or New Belgium's setup and have a foeder that holds the "main" blend for a sour saison or brown (Surette/Vielle or La Folie) and have older/stronger/alternate vintages in barrels nearby for aging and/or eventual reblending. Other stuff coming off my barrels would be stouts, porters, fruited sours, lighter beers coming off chardonnay barrels, etc. I suppose I would also seasonally offer stouts/porters/browns, but I like it when they have stuff in them. Denver Beer Co makes a great graham cracker porter that tastes like smores or I had a black currant stout a while ago that was disgustingly good. Basically I think it's okay to offer a few easy drinking beers because even the beer nerds want something simple but tasty for relaxed drinking, but you need to elevate your game for other beers. Put additions in your darker beers or even just throw hops at them because even hoppy stout is better than Guinness clone because if I want a stout like Guinness, well, you're not going to beat them at that game ever. I am super tired of the trend in CO for new breweries opening up to just put out lager/pale/IPA/brown or porter/stout with sometimes a red or a saison. Black Shirt Brewing only does reds. But you know what? They kick rear end at it. They make red loving everything, from hoppy to malty to sour reds and they've decided that at least for now, that's what they're going to explore. Crooked Stave only makes sours and they're awesome. Large breweries aren't all bad either. Avery is huge and they put out both very drinkable flagships and then have several limited release schedules. New Belgium even gets some credit for occasionally making a good Lips of Faith product like La Folie. The trick in beer selection is that you just always need to be exploring, because the fun of going to a new brewery is tasting new beer. Going to a new brewery and tasting American standards is disappointing, and I've been to enough of those locally to know that I really hate it. And if you're opening a tap room, please spend money making it awesome. I am willing to forgive everything about the decor if the beer is outstanding, like, Crooked Stave has a tiny tap room in an ugly warehouse but their beer is so loving good and the brewery-only stuff they have on tap there warrants an occasional visit. But now that they're moving to the Source, hell yes I will go more often because it will be in an actually cool, exciting space in which to hang out. Not to mention they still pour Surette, Vielle, and St Bretta for $5 where it costs you $7 in a bottle and I am really hoping that doesn't change. And my favorite taprooms are the ones that really go all out. Paradox is Woodland Park has a beautiful tap room with tons of nice furniture and the walls are adorned all over with artwork made from barrel staves. Denver Beer Company and Hogshead Brewing both took auto garages and turned those into really cool spaces. They're both modern and minimalist, but they have local art on the walls, nice furniture, and an open feel to the building that promotes relaxation. Trinity Brewing has really cool barrel picnic tables on their patio and interesting interior design--the arch leading from tap room to barrel room is a double row of books from a million different subjects or genres. Bristol is in an old elementary school. New Belgium's tap room is nice and zany. Odell has an awesome gigantic house feel to their taproom. My favorite high country brewery, Gore Range Brewing, feels like it's almost in a super high class mountain cabin. Hell, Golden City Brewing is a tiny house, with the yard serving as the beer garden. Those are all places I want to hang out because they have soul and character. You feel like someone "lives" there and that you're a part of their environment in there. The space belongs to someone much like a home, and the personal expression apparent in the design is stimulating, welcoming, and relaxing. Generic stainless steel and bar stools and tables do not have that effect. Also, I personally am still all about any combination of Citra, Columbus, and Cascade hops. I personally do not care that much for Mosaic if it's the dominant hop in a beer, but I do think it adds good flavor if it's part of a blend. e: gently caress that was a lot of words, I just threw that together while waiting for the market to do something useful and I apologize for it being rambly. It was done like 3 minutes at a time haha.
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Aug 22, 2013 16:01
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funkybottoms posted:what's the hot beer/style in your neck of the woods? The "hot" style in Florida is supposed to be berliner weisses brewed with fresh tropical fruit, the "Florida Weisse". I think it's more of a desire than a reality, a lot of local breweries have talked about making it the popular regional variant, but any given day you'd be hard-pressed to go and get one. Otherwise, I'd say IPAs? Swickles is probably a lot more informed about it than I am. Funky Buddha isn't new but just opened a brewery, what they do best is fruit-flavored variants of various styles and mimicking the flavors of other foods. They don't do anything bad per se, but their normal styles are only OK. J Wakefield is hot and opening soon, and specializes in the aforementioned berliner weisses. There are 3-4 places that are opening in the next year, too. I'm happy to try something new, and my regular spot would be nearby, and not totally repellent in terms of atmosphere and the ability to adequately serve patrons. Me in Reverse posted:Is Mango Magnifico worth $20 for a bottle? I had it last night on draft for the first time and didn't end up finishing it. The sweetness got cloying after the first couple sips. Hamhandler fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Aug 22, 2013 16:06
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funkybottoms posted:in other news, i want to engage in a bit of goon brain-picking. my friends are opening a brewery- air- posted:1. A mixture: beer nerdy types are into sours, typically wild ales, while casual fans like session releases like ABW is doing with their heavy machinery series. A berlinerweisse would mean instant goodwill (ABW Einhorn, Freetail Yo soy un Berliner). Cans in general are on a big uptick too. Definitely all the things air- said. Low ABV session beers are definitely big around here, and even the large local breweries like New Belgium and Odell have put one out in the form of Shift or Loose Leaf. I loving love cans to the point where I now actively look for the style I want canned first before resorting to bottles. They're just so much more convenient to carry and dispose of. As others said, it's not new, but wheat beers are always popular. I probably see more people ordering New Belgium Sunshine or Odell Easy Street than everything else combined. The Denver area has roughly infinity breweries from nanos up through New Belgium size so I've pretty much seen it all. Is your friend going to be opening the first brewery in his area or will he be coming into an already well-served market? That probably makes a big difference. Also have they decided on brewpub vs packaging brewery? If the latter, will there be a tasting room? Three or four new places have opened in my town since I thought to myself a few years ago "this place is totally loving saturated, the next brewery is doomed" and done well. One brews undrinkable swill and I don't know how they are thriving. But the others each jumped right in and are kicking rear end. They found an underserved niche (Funkwerks and their saisons, Equinox brews a stable of awesome dark beers while most local places make 0 to 1) and/or made their taproom somewhere super interesting and comfortable to be. A couple good flagships complemented by tons of rotating small batch taps. Live bands, spacious patio seating, family and pet friendly, interesting firkin tappings, friendly and knowledgeable staff, offer sampler flights for a good price. One place decided to be a combo brewery and beer bar, so they always have like 35 guest beers on as a hedge against people like me that think the house beer kind of sucks. Docjowles fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Aug 22, 2013 16:09
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Jesus christ people started lining up to go to the new Hopcat in Lansing at 9pm last night (they opened at 11am today). Camping out in the rain to drink a bunch of Short's beers. Madness. http://www.wilx.com/home/headlines/Hundreds-Line-Up-for-Opening-of-HopCat-Bar-in-East-Lansing-220648681.html 
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Aug 22, 2013 16:14
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^^^ticks, broDocjowles posted:Is your friend going to be opening the first brewery in his area or will he be coming into an already well-served market? That probably makes a big difference. Also have they decided on brewpub vs packaging brewery? If the latter, will there be a tasting room? a brewery with a tasting room, likely doing some bottle-conditioned 750mLs to start, and the area has a few well-established craft breweries, a few that have recently opened, and a few more in-planning (which shouldn't be an issue provided the beers are good- demographics of similar markets show that the city can support a fair amount more than what it already has) funkybottoms fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Aug 22, 2013 16:24
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I think beer market saturation is actually much higher than most people think. First, as Colorado has proven, distance is a key factor. If you're in a community of a few tens of thousands and that place doesn't yet have its own brewery, you're likely to succeed because people want a local craft beer hangout. A killer taphouse might do the trick, but the current crazy is actual breweries so you don't have to work all that hard if you're serving a local's local market, if that makes sense. Like, the brewery scene in Denver actually makes a lot of sense when you look at it geographically. DBC serves LoHi and Highlands; Hogshead covers Sloan Lake; the Gordon Biersches et al, Breckenridge, Wynkoop, and Great Divide get the downtown and LoDo area; Vine Street serves City Park; TRVE gets Baker and Cap Hill; and etc. Those micro climates really seem to support a local brewery in a non-impoverished space because people want a hangout spot and are lazy enough to mostly hit up the local brewery when they want beer instead of traveling 15 minutes to a better one. Or you have multiple nearby breweries serving different angles. River North, Black Shirt, and Crooked Stave are all great breweries in the same RiNo area and won't be in direct competition because CS serves all sours, River North tends to creatively riff on traditional styles, and BSB only does reds. Additionally CS will be in a high-end artisan marketplace, River North gets ballpark traffic, and BSB has a great, large taproom with a mellow vibe and that attracts somewhat better food trucks that River North. It's insane to think that you can pack 3 (actually 4 with OMF but they are really mediocre) into one really small Denver neighborhood and each serves a niche, but I guess that's the way it goes in a city. Ft Collins/Loveland is a bit more interesting because it's a much smaller community, but I think the momentum of the beer scene might really help out, especially since if I had to guess, FoCo gets the majority of beer tourist dollars for the Front Range because everyone wants to visit NB/Odell.
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Aug 22, 2013 16:54
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Eejit posted:CO Beer stuff I think the CO- like Oregon- market isn't representative of what the average saturation level is in most cities. Maybe because of the relative isolation of these areas compared to larger population zones, there was more willingness to accept local beers. "This is ours. We support this." Not everywhere had that attitude. I think one major factor as to whether a region can support another local brewery is distribution of non-local breweries. As crazyfish mentioned, there's been your standard new-brewery boom in Chicago. The biggest battle the new guys will face isn't necessarily other locals; It's the fact that, with very few exceptions, there aren't many major, nationally distributed breweries we don't get. A new Chicago brewery has to find shelf space not only against established, renowned local breweries (even relatively younger ones like HA and Rev) but against Stone, Central Waters, Boulevard, Ballast Point, Avery, Great Divide, the entire state of Michigan, etc. You have to be doing something honestly spectacular to compete on that level. I'm not sure how many will actually do it.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:19
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danbanana posted:A new Chicago brewery has to find shelf space not only against established, renowned local breweries (even relatively younger ones like HA and Rev) but against Stone, Central Waters, Boulevard, Ballast Point, Avery, Great Divide, the entire state of Michigan, etc. You have to be doing something honestly spectacular to compete on that level. I'm not sure how many will actually do it. All of Texas has a near similar craft beer environment. Founders and Firestone Walker both showing up recently meant the bar went up even higher, and now I believe both Odell and Bell's are looking to enter our market. Very tough for a new brewer to make it from being squeezed in all of those directions. I only have so much money to spend on beer, and these days, something on the level of Prairie is the minimum benchmark for me to feel confident in buying beer from a "newer" craft brewery. e: someone on BA made this, I threw a link into the wiki for Texas. Feel free to copy for your areas! air- fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Aug 22, 2013 17:24
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It was mentioned earlier, but to me, if I'm trying a beer by a company I haven't heard of before and none of my friends have drank their beer, I'm going to hesitate to spend $10 on a bomber of an unknown beer when I can buy a bomber of Pipeworks, or Stone, and know that I'm getting a tasty beer. If you're lower in price, like between $5-8, then I'll take a chance. Style wise, Chicago has pretty much everything. I have had good luck introducing non-craft beer drinkers to craft beer with saisons. I split a few saisons with my brother, not a big beer drinker (to the point he doesn't keep any at his house, but will have a Bud Light if he is out with friends) and he really liked the flavor and how easy drinking they were, and now will pick up a bomber or six pack to have around on the weekends.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:30
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danbanana posted:I think the CO- like Oregon- market isn't representative of what the average saturation level is in most cities. Maybe because of the relative isolation of these areas compared to larger population zones, there was more willingness to accept local beers. "This is ours. We support this." Not everywhere had that attitude. I think one major factor as to whether a region can support another local brewery is distribution of non-local breweries. As crazyfish mentioned, there's been your standard new-brewery boom in Chicago. The biggest battle the new guys will face isn't necessarily other locals; It's the fact that, with very few exceptions, there aren't many major, nationally distributed breweries we don't get. A new Chicago brewery has to find shelf space not only against established, renowned local breweries (even relatively younger ones like HA and Rev) but against Stone, Central Waters, Boulevard, Ballast Point, Avery, Great Divide, the entire state of Michigan, etc. You have to be doing something honestly spectacular to compete on that level. I'm not sure how many will actually do it. Especially when your price point (the $10 single IPA bomber) discourages sampling. When I can get a sixer of Anti-Hero, Two Hearted, and Racer 5 or 4 packs of Daisy Cutter or Akari Shogun (or if I haven't had them before, sample them as part of a mix six) for the same price as a 22oz bottle of the week when you haven't established yourself, it's going to be really hard for me to pull the trigger on your drip in the ocean of IPAs.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:39
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crazyfish posted:Especially when your price point (the $10 single IPA bomber) discourages sampling. When I can get a sixer of Anti-Hero, Two Hearted, and Racer 5 or 4 packs of Daisy Cutter or Akari Shogun (or if I haven't had them before, sample them as part of a mix six) for the same price as a 22oz bottle of the week when you haven't established yourself, it's going to be really hard for me to pull the trigger on your drip in the ocean of IPAs. Which is when hype/word of mouth is actually useful. Crowdsourced opinions don't always align with mine but if a beer or brewery are discussed very positively, I'm more likely to try them out.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:48
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Sirotan posted:Jesus christ people started lining up to go to the new Hopcat in Lansing at 9pm last night (they opened at 11am today). Camping out in the rain to drink a bunch of Short's beers. Madness. Probably more for the free Crack Fries for a year.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:51
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danbanana posted:A new Chicago brewery has to find shelf space not only against established, renowned local breweries (even relatively younger ones like HA and Rev) but against Stone, Central Waters, Boulevard, Ballast Point, Avery, Great Divide, the entire state of Michigan, etc. You have to be doing something honestly spectacular to compete on that level. I'm not sure how many will actually do it. This is a great point, and something I've been noticing a lot lately, especially with friends visiting from other places in the country. I recently had a friend from Portland and a friend from Denver in town, and they both commented there's more (deschutes/avery/great divide/ etc.) on the shelves here than their home markets. It's hard to maintain a "drink local" attitude when I can regularly get some of the best beers from both coasts, north and south, on a consistent basis. It will be interesting to see if this changes at all with all the new breweries opening up, especially in the suburbs.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:58
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umop apisdn posted:This is a great point, and something I've been noticing a lot lately, especially with friends visiting from other places in the country. I recently had a friend from Portland and a friend from Denver in town, and they both commented there's more (deschutes/avery/great divide/ etc.) on the shelves here than their home markets. There were cases of Stone's Enjoy By in Chicago around Black Friday while beer stores in SoCal were only getting a case with a strict one bottle limit. I guess breweries really wanna establish themselves in Chicago as quickly impossible. If I were opening a brewery or brewpub, I wouldn't even consider breweries who distribute bottles/kegs part of my competition - I would focus on amazing food, great atmosphere, reasonably price taps, and weekly events to draw people in. A brewery across the country can't really compete with a local brewpub that's fun to be at.
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Aug 22, 2013 18:04
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What I find befuddling is that there isn't a new taproom in Chicago. Like, the appeal for me of most breweries is actually going there. I understand it's a huge financial undertaking, but I would definitely attribute a large portion of Rev's success to their physical location. Even a more scaled-back and less food oriented taproom would be a huge boon for a Chicago brewery. It makes it a destination, and that creates a souvenir mentality and positive association between good times at the brewery and beer on shelf. Denver isn't isolated from national distribution by any means. We don't get a lot of East Coast product nor do we get a lot of MI product, but I'd say that at the very minimum half of most liquor stores' beer department is selling non-CO beer, and in many cases more than that. Hell, out of the 150 odd breweries in the state, maybe a little over a third of those distribute outside their walls, and for another third it's one or two beers at absolute most and in small quantities or they distribute exclusively within the state. It's that you can go there, have a unique product, and if it's a nice enough location, it's a hangout spot. Hell if I was in the brewing business and didn't mind living away from mountains (which I have found isn't okay for me anymore haha) Chicago would be my #1 target. Every beer spot is packed seemingly at all hours with fewer beer locations (bars/breweries/beer-focused restaurants ala Publican or Owen and Engine) than Denver and a much higher density of potential diners per square mile. It's one of three spots in the US with a Michelin guide for goodness sake. I'm just imagining transplanting some place like Bru to somewhere between, I dunno, River North and Ravenswood and the accompanying swimming pool of gold coins. e: Bag of Sun Chips posted:There were cases of Stone's Enjoy By in Chicago around Black Friday while beer stores in SoCal were only getting a case with a strict one bottle limit. I guess breweries really wanna establish themselves in Chicago as quickly impossible. That's a really succinct way to say everything I said above and I agree 100% Eejit fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Aug 22, 2013 18:13
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Eejit posted:Denver isn't isolated from national distribution by any means. We don't get a lot of East Coast product nor do we get a lot of MI product, but I'd say that at the very minimum half of most liquor stores' beer department is selling non-CO beer, and in many cases more than that. Hell, out of the 150 odd breweries in the state, maybe a little over a third of those distribute outside their walls, and for another third it's one or two beers at absolute most and in small quantities or they distribute exclusively within the state. It's that you can go there, have a unique product, and if it's a nice enough location, it's a hangout spot. Definitely true, we get a crazy amount of West Coast beers. Almost everything you might want from CA, except maybe Ballast Point and AleSmith. Bunch of stuff from OR and WA, too. Doesn't seem to have stopped hundreds of local breweries from popping up and thriving. No one seems to want to send beer west, though, which is interesting. Other than Boulevard I feel like CO gets jack poo poo from east of the rockies. And what we do get is poo poo, like Abita, Magic Hat and Shipyard. We have Goose Island's year round lineup but that's because it's all brewed in Fort Collins these days anyway at the Bud plant  edit: Forgot Jolly Pumpkin, that's at least one outstanding midwest brewer we see.
Docjowles fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Aug 22, 2013 18:25
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Eejit posted:What I find befuddling is that there isn't a new taproom in Chicago. Like, the appeal for me of most breweries is actually going there. I understand it's a huge financial undertaking, but I would definitely attribute a large portion of Rev's success to their physical location. Even a more scaled-back and less food oriented taproom would be a huge boon for a Chicago brewery. It makes it a destination, and that creates a souvenir mentality and positive association between good times at the brewery and beer on shelf. The short answer in Chicago is... $$$. Opening a brewpub in the city is incredibly expensive because land is incredibly expensive and you'll need more of it than a bar or a restaurant would. Rev got lucky by opening that brewpub right when Logan Square was being, for lack of a better term, gentrified. Two years prior to that, there wasn't a chance in hell a place like that would make it. A River North-area brewpub would cost high 7 figures, if not more. Going into a cheaper part of town (like HA did) means you're isolating yourself. Their little bar area is nice but it's over an hour for me to get there and I pass 3 other brewpubs to get to it. Basically, there's a reason why GI's Clybourn brewpub is in perpetual financial trouble despite being one of the most important sites in US craft brew history, producing good-to-amazing exclusive beers, and being owned by a dude who just sold the larger part of the company to the biggest beer company in the world (i.e., dude is rich). It's just not cost effective. The result of that is more than a few great bars. But as a new-ish brewery, that situation isn't any different than what they face on a store shelf.
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Aug 22, 2013 18:25
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Docjowles posted:Definitely true, we get a crazy amount of West Coast beers. Almost everything you might want from CA, except maybe Ballast Point and AleSmith. Bunch of stuff from OR and WA, too. Doesn't seem to have stopped hundreds of local breweries from popping up and thriving. I'm seriously not making GBS threads on CO's out of state distribution, but a quick look at Seekabrew shows 85 breweries distributing there. Illinois has about double that. It's not the most accurate of list but I have trouble seeing a place that gets more non-local distro than Chicago. That's what new breweries face here. E: And comparing non-shared distro is even a greater differential. danbanana fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Aug 22, 2013 18:29
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Even someplace like Rat Hole which has maybe a 3bbl system has opened a brewpub here in ol Bend. That's because, between the bars and the bottle shops and the growler fill joints, there is no space here for a brewery that only deals in beer and not food, a nice space, etc. (Unless you're Boneyard but we can't all be Boneyard.) So indeed, speaking for being in a medium-sized town with a lot of beer, I visit breweries as much for atmosphere as I do for beer (since the beer is almost always good anyway). It's part of the reason I don't go to Worthy much at all -- their beer is just okay, AND it's way on the other side of town, AND they have this huge outdoor area where they don't allow dogs on, which is like  why would you build that space then in a town where everybody owns dogs. The dog traffic at the 10 Barrel and the Goodlife is nuts.Also speaking on the topic of hometown beer versus "the best in the US" distribution: In TX I drank lots of Deschutes and Stone and Breckenridge, but now that I'm here I very rarely purchase anything non-OR. The last time was Enjoy By which I've been waiting years to try out. SUPER HASSLER fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Aug 22, 2013 18:47
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SUPER HASSLER posted:Even someplace like Rat Hole which has maybe a 3bbl system has opened a brewpub here in ol Bend. That's because, between the bars and the bottle shops and the growler fill joints, there is no space here for a brewery that only deals in beer and not food, a nice space, etc. (Unless you're Boneyard but we can't all be Boneyard.) Yeah part of what I was thinking is that even a 3-10 bbl system often suffices for places in limited space that are working mostly on being local. In relation to the Chicago discussion, yes, there is a reason why Rock Bottom is the only brewery downtown. You don't have to swing for the stars on the first go, but yes, money is a major concern. It's just that large up front investment should be rewarded with high demand for a product and thus potential profit in the long run. I dunno, it's one thing to talk theory on either side of what's possible, it's another thing entirely to actually start drawing up a business plan to figure it out for sure haha.
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Aug 22, 2013 19:06
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One encouraging thing I saw at the Oak Park Microbrew Review was the plethora of promising new breweries with tap rooms opening up... In the suburbs. I was really impressed by Urban Legend, who just opened in Westmont, and Hopvine in Naperville. With the cost of business in Chicago proper, I can see these places in dupage doing well.
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Aug 22, 2013 19:38
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umop apisdn posted:One encouraging thing I saw at the Oak Park Microbrew Review was the plethora of promising new breweries with tap rooms opening up... In the suburbs. I was really impressed by Urban Legend, who just opened in Westmont, and Hopvine in Naperville. Penrose was there, right? Super pumped about that one. Geneva is by no means close, but I did make it there in only about 30 minutes after work recently. I may be finding myself doing that often... I'm curious to watch the success of those places. They may fit into Eejit's a-brewery-per-community theory, but there isn't nearly the kind of rabid local support in Chicago as there is in CO or OR (see Super Hassler's post above). So those places better be good enough to be a destination in their region. That's the other thing: it's been a while since I've lived too far from the city, but driving around to visit a brewery seems inefficient to me. If I've got to be in a car for 30-90 minutes round trip, likely in lovely suburban traffic, I better make it worth my time at the brewery. And that leads to other issues...
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Aug 22, 2013 19:46
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| # ? May 25, 2024 13:04 |
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I finally cracked open a beer a received from the BIF thread: Ballast Point Indra Kunindra. I've never had a peppery beer before. This has to be one of the best beers I've ever had. If I ever am near San Diego, I'm making it a priority to stop by Ballast Point. In his notes, wattershed mentioned this would go well with chicken salad, tuna steak, or pork kebobs. Sure enough, the second I tasted this, I pictured it alongside a pepper-crusted seared tuna steak. I think it would also go well with Indian chicken dishes, like a chicken tikka masala. I'm currently having it with some homemade popcorn with a little cayenne pepper sprinkled on it, and it works well. I have one other beer by Ballast Point, and I'm really excited to try it.
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Aug 22, 2013 20:29
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