|
In case anyone wants to know, I did another very minor tweak to the Augur. The painkillers you can make with apothecary now read "Painkillers (+2 armor forward or +1 forward when Defying Danger to resist pain, whichever happens first)" instead of making you choose one or the other at the moment of consumption. I thought it would be weird if you say chose the armor bonus and ended up resisting pain before taking damage or other way around. Now it always applies to the first situation after consumption where it would be useful.
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 00:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 08:19 |
|
|
Has anyone thought about adding versioning (v01, v02, etc.) to the Playbooks? I think it would be helpful for ensuring you have the latest version, especially with the free community Playbooks. It could be added to the filename or on the Playbook itself. I will probably add it within the DOCX version of the Playbook template as an option.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 01:20
|
|
|
Harrow posted:The "hook" example makes a lot of sense to me. It probably will be more fun for me to react to what the players bring to the table than to just impose a big ol' Word document on them like I used to do with Pathfinder. There's a way to do both ! If there's a setting element you really want to use, or that you feel you're constrained to use by a published setting, ask the players leading questions about it. Asking "How strong is "brand loyalty" to the megacorps ?" neatly plants megacorps in the setting while also engaging the players in how they actually affect the setting. Similar questions can be crafted to introduce other elements. All the while the players are coming up with the nitty gritty details that breathe life into the setting. Everybody wins !
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 01:30
|
|
|
Glazius posted:Page 224-225 (or this) aren't doin' it for you? There's a page for that together with the pdfs of the basic class playbooks, isn't there?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 02:14
|
|
|
I've been working on a Samurai class for my self to play when I can talk one of my friends to run a game for me. I want to know what you guys think. It's a work in progress. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qDYafs41kk68arJnYcdXqQOS9HVdOSYBqAcU1W-jzoQ/edit?usp=sharing
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 04:29
|
|
|
I haven't had a chance to really pore over it yet but I'm really unsure about that Seppuku move. You commit suicide--a ritual suicide meant to help preserve your honor--and in return it makes it easier for you to... cheat death?  Edit: The Fire, Earth, and Void stances don't have 5-10 moves; so Water and Air get two special moves, the others only one. Don't know if that was intentional or not but it would make sense to have them all be even. Empty Your Mind doesn't seem all that useful, since it subtracts CON from self-inflicted damage. Did you mean for this to subtract from the 1d6 damage you take in Void Stance, if you roll a 6 in Hack And Slash? If so I'd rephrase it. I'd pull Seppuku and make that a super-cool Death Move of some sort that does something thematic and suitably legendary. Offer Battle Tactics as a beginner move, instead. Everything Counts fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Aug 28, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 04:39
|
|
|
For a samurai, it doesn't have much "loyal retainer" flavor.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 04:44
|
|
|
Everything Counts posted:I haven't had a chance to really pore over it yet but I'm really unsure about that Seppuku move. You commit suicide--a ritual suicide meant to help preserve your honor--and in return it makes it easier for you to... cheat death? My logic behind it is that seppuku cleans you of disgrace and returns your honor. And death is more likely to give you a deal if he thinks you are going to honor it. Also I haven't finished all the moves. Each stance will get a 2-5 and 6-10 move. Elmo Oxygen posted:For a samurai, it doesn't have much "loyal retainer" flavor. I was taking more inspiration from movies, video games, and anime than actual events. Huckabee Sting fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Aug 28, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 04:46
|
|
|
Huckabee Sting posted:My logic behind it is that seppuku cleans you of disgrace and returns your honor. And death is more likely to give you a deal if he thinks you are going to honor it. If that's so, I'd really talk up the Honor in the fluff, because that doesn't come across at all. Most of the moves are Master Swordsman type stuff rather than Honor, Loyalty, that sort of thing. See also some of my other remarks above, edited into my original post.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 04:51
|
|
|
Everything Counts posted:If that's so, I'd really talk up the Honor in the fluff, because that doesn't come across at all. Most of the moves are Master Swordsman type stuff rather than Honor, Loyalty, that sort of thing. Yeah, all the moves are not done yet. Either is any of the fluff. I'll look into adding more of the 7 tenets of Bushido into it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 04:52
|
|
|
Lemon Curdistan posted:RulebookHeavily wrote it, and I did the layout on it. Thanks! Do you know if any other racial playbooks have been done? I remember The Dwarf was said to be next.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 05:01
|
|
|
Huckabee Sting posted:My logic behind it is that seppuku cleans you of disgrace and returns your honor. Your move makes it more likely that you survive if you commit seppuku. It just doesn't work. "Oh crap I'm gonna die next time something hits me, better cut my guts out so I can keep living" Why not make it a death move along the lines of DEATH MOVE When you end your own life in honorable seppuku, everyone who has a bond with you instantly goes up one level, inspired by your honor and sacrifice. Optional: everyone in your party who doesn't have you as a bond loses all XP they've accrued since their last level up, disturbed by your shocking display. They never truly understood you. Elmo Oxygen fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Aug 28, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 05:07
|
|
|
Elmo Oxygen posted:Your move makes it more likely that you survive if you commit seppuku. It just doesn't work. I had removed the original and was trying to think of something else but that is really awesome. And I think I will use that because I don't think I will be able to top that one. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 05:15
|
|
|
Elmo Oxygen posted:Your move makes it more likely that you survive if you commit seppuku. It just doesn't work. I think this death move doesn't solve the problem of encouraging you to kill yourself before you are killed in battle. The popular image of Samurai (that I have in my head) says that it is much more glorious and honorable to fall in battle than to take your own life. Seppuku is for when you have done something dishonorable and wish to spare yourself/your lord from having to live with the shame. Plus, this death move isn't following the paradigm of having the passive when you die trigger. I also don't like the effect of making your bonded party members level up. It seems boring and mechanical. Death moves are some of the more flavorful things I've seen in DW playbooks and I'd hate for them to fall into the "+1 to a thing" trap. I think a good death move is all about fulfilling your (dramatic) purpose. The existing death moves have a theme of unleashing something that was held back. With that in mind, what is the purpose of the Samurai? Why should I be a Samurai instead of another class like the Fighter? The things I see are that the Samurai has the 5 stances and that he has a very strong concept of honor. I do like the idea of the death move being something about inspiring your allies to greater heights. Actually, that could potentially be something you do with other moves in the class. I don't know if that fits your vision, though. Anyway, those are my thoughts. I was trying to come up with a good alternative death move, but I'm having a hard time of it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 06:22
|
|
|
Also death moves generally tend to have a significant and/or lasting impact not just on the immediate session but potentially on the world. A Wizard unleashing a Wish spell, a Thief stealing something from Death's domain, the Grim War Channeler exploding into a permanent vortex to the elemental planes, stuff like that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 06:35
|
|
|
Elmo Oxygen posted:Optional: everyone in your party who doesn't have you as a bond loses all XP they've accrued since their last level up, disturbed by your shocking display. This is a terrible idea. You're (potentially) inflicting a significant negative on other players that's triggered only by you dying; it's not a good move and it's not even a good death move, in addition to messing with something you shouldn't (XP). The free level isn't a good death move either (no lasting effect on the setting, as pointed out) but at least it's mechanically original even if it makes no sense from a fiction point of view. Huckabee Sting posted:I've been working on a Samurai class for my self to play when I can talk one of my friends to run a game for me. I want to know what you guys think. It's a work in progress. 10 base HP for a Con-based class might be high, but balances out well with the d8 base damage for a warrior class, so no complaints there (as long as you wanted to make a class that is more about taking hits than being a glass cannon). Starting Moves Take A Stance: this is a very complicated way of doing stances. For starters, you don't need to specify that a miss puts you in danger, and a miss knocking you out of your stance (which stance? You're rolling to get into one, remember?) doesn't make much sense. Secondly, "when you take a stance" doesn't work as a trigger: you need a trigger that describes the actions required to take a stance, and ideally gives a time-frame for those actions to happen in. This is from the Battlemind (also a stance-based class): "when you set your mind and body to combat." This is a pretty good trigger because it tells the player what the character needs to do. Depending on whether or not you wanted to make the action of taking a stance take time as a balancing factor (to make the player think twice about taking a stance in combat, where it would leave the character vulnerable), you probably also want to add a timing to that trigger to end up with something like "when you spend a few moments setting your mind and body to combat." This means that doing it in combat will leave the Samurai open to one attack. Ditch the penalty for being in a stance. Not having the benefits of your stance is enough of a penalty, and -1 to everything is absolutely ludicrous. You should also ditch the fluff sentence at the start of each stance effect, because they get in the way of the mechanics. You can also ditch most of the stance penalties, because they only complicate the starting move. Here's how I recommend doing it if you want to keep the elemental stance stuff: quote:Take a Stance The problem with this is that it's a bunch of nickel-and-dime bonuses with no actual core identity, which is a bad way of building a starting move. You'd be far better off doing something like this, IMO: quote:Take a Stance Note how the trigger doesn't need a timer on this one since the "expose yourself to danger" part occurs on a partial success. You can, of course, just call those two Fire/Earth stance instead of the dumb fancy names I gave them. Also, Blood on the Water Stance's bonus damage can be equal to Dex instead if you think the Samurai should primarily use Dex as an attack stat. Bushido: this is also kind of nickel-and-dimey, and the Defy Danger bonus doesn't make much sense (why would you get a bonus to a DD roll to run away, for example?). It's also not particularly evocative of what Bushido means, since it's a code composed of seven virtues! Art of War: the "+armour while naked" option on every other class that has it is +1 armor, and it has additional restrictions (no shield, have to be below Load). Keep in mind that 1 armour is equivalent to the armour that most classes have, 2 armour is equivalent to what warrior classes start out with. "If you don't war armour you're as armoured as a Fighter" doesn't make sense. Of course, to keep the naked samurai approach worthwhile at higher levels, you just create advances that increase this bonus in some way. Battle Tactics: basic replacement with a nice, flavourful trigger. Sure. My only complaint is that Wis isn't in use anywhere else in the class, so the replacement doesn't make an inordinate amount of sense. The solution isn't to change the replacement but to have a bunch of advanced moves (at least two per tier) that use +Wis. 2-5 Advances Blade Expert: this works just fine as a concept for an advanced move, but due to the change I recommend to Take a Stance you'd have to do one of two things: either Blade Expert gives you a specific stance, or you include a mini-spell-list with a half dozen stances and let the player pick one from the list. Given that coming up with half a dozen new and meaningful stances is going to be hard, I would recommend just making Blade Expert give a specific stance. Stance Dance: boring (both because it's a mechanical bonus and a small bonus), but there's nothing particularly wrong with it. Actually, you could give +1d4 damage instead of +1 forward and just make this the Samurai's +damage move - I don't like +damage moves in general, but if you do it this way you a) make it conditional on a trigger the Samurai actually needs to work to fulfil and b) encourage the Samurai to play a specific way (changing stances frequently). If you do it this way, I'd just make it happen on a hit (or even regardless of result) rather than on a 10+. Sashimono: doesn't make a huge amount of sense in-fiction (what banner? It's never brought up as part of anything up until now. Why does the banner just give a generic +1 forward?) and it's a boring bonus. Not a good advance. Be Like Water: +2 is a huge bonus. +1 to DD while in a specific stance is okay power-wise, but it's also very boring. Ride the Wind: okay, as a concept it's fine, but why? Your primary stat is Con, your secondary is liable to be Wis, or possibly Str or Dex. If Dex, you're already using a precise weapon; if Str it's useless to you. This can actually be fixed by making the bonus apply to all stances, like so: quote:Ride the Wind End result: this allows a Dex-attack Samurai to use a stupidly huge sword and still attack with Dex as long as they're in a stance (but be useless with it when their concentration lapses). It fits the fiction, and it's powerful and interesting enough to be worth taking if Dex is your attack stat. Unmoved Mover: it's not "stun effects," for starters. Also: bad trigger (the real trigger is "you are in Earth stance and your armour stops damage," not "you are in Earth stance"), weirdly-worded, doesn't make sense in-fiction, too powerful for a 2-5. Try this instead: quote:Unmoved Mover That still needs a bit of work; that's a really dodgy trigger to get right (passive and really long). Empty Your Mind: apart from the bad wording, this is purely a move that exists to counter the negative aspect of a stance which I've removed, so it doesn't fit any more. Backdraft: cutting off limbs and breaking bones doesn't really strike me as fictionally aligned with a fiery explosion. The dealing damage on a miss part works, though, and it's strong enough to be a move on its own. quote:Backdraft Fortitude: the +1 to armour full stop shouldn't really be there; the Fighter has a niche that needs protecting. Instead, just make it an additional +1 armour while unarmoured, under Load and wielding no shield (so you can be a naked Samurai with 2 armor). 6-10 Advances Blade Master: same comment as Blade Expert. Flowing Strikes: this is way too 4E-ish/mechanical; DW doesn't have initiative or per-round movement rates. You could maybe try to write something similar to the AW Touchstone's Indomitable, but less powerful and as a choose move instead of a hold move. Battle Instincts: never replace starting moves, so this should just be: quote:Battle Instincts The Tempest: this is way too rules- and mechanics-heavy. I'd suggest scrapping it entirely. Way of the Warrior: this makes a 7-9 the same as a 10+ on Take A Stance if you use my suggested move, so wouldn't work. If you stick with the hold move, it's a 6-10 advance that just takes off a drawback from a starting move, which is a bit boring. Seppuku: as discussed, sepukku itself shouldn't be an advance but a death move. Also as discussed, I don't think Elmo Oxygen's move is good at all. For other advances, you could probably do with moves that let you be in two stances at once (maybe a 2-5 that lets you get both sets of benefits and drawbacks, and a 6-10 upgrade that lets you ignore one set of drawbacks) as well as generally more moves that add new stances. If you want to keep the elemental-themed stances, and using my suggested Take A Stance, the two starting stances I listed are Fire/Earth, and then you could make advances to gain Water and Wind as 2-5s, and Void as a 6-10. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Aug 28, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 09:29
|
|
|
Lemon Curdistan posted:RulebookHeavily wrote it, and I did the layout on it. Oh god, I just had a look at it and I can't believe it took my girlfriend pointing it out to me that Morningwood is one of the titles. Also, I know the list of names has a very Tolkienistic vibe to it and Tolkien borrowed heavily from the Finnish language, but as a Finnish speaker it's funny to see Pirinen, a relatively common Finnish surname, in the list of first names. To get an idea of the sort effect an elf named Pirinen would evoke, imagine a dwarf named Johnson Troll-slayer.  Not a criticism of the class at all, I can find nothing wrong with it, I just find it increasingly funny how completely common Finnish names are making their way to more and more Dungeon World playbooks, probably by accident.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 11:37
|
|
|
Ratpick posted:Oh god, I just had a look at it and I can't believe it took my girlfriend pointing it out to me that Morningwood is one of the titles. There are also advanced moves called "Silent But Deadly" and "Silent Assassin."  (Also, I seem to recall that was the whole point of using "Pirinen" as a suggested name.) Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Aug 28, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 13:30
|
|
|
Ratpick posted:I just find it increasingly funny how completely common Finnish names are making their way to more and more Dungeon World playbooks, probably by accident. I am pretty sure this is because RulebookHeavily speaks Finnish. Or Icelandish. Something Northern European like that. Ratpick posted:Johnson Troll-slayer. This would be a pretty great name for a dude, honestly. I know I've had Johnsons in my fantasy roleplaying games before, but its usually the name of a military mook.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 13:50
|
|
|
Lemon Curdistan posted:There are also advanced moves called "Silent But Deadly" and "Silent Assassin." Ah, so it's an intentional bilingual bonus. That makes it even better. Also, I can't stop giggling like a fifteen-year-old at those move names now. gnome7 posted:This would be a pretty great name for a dude, honestly. I know I've had Johnsons in my fantasy roleplaying games before, but its usually the name of a military mook. Yeah, Johnson is also my go-to mook name, but I've never seen it used for a major character. Now I kind of want to play a Johnson Troll-slayer.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 14:08
|
|
|
Lemon Curdistan posted:in addition to messing with something you shouldn't (XP). Sure thing, rule police.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 14:50
|
|
|
Elmo Oxygen posted:Sure thing, rule police. I'm going to arrest you for your crimes against Dungeon World, now. Put your hands in the air and come peacefully. e; sorry, Gnome has just pointed out that I should have said this instead: ONE MILLION YEARS DUNGEONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN, ELMO OXYGEN. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Aug 28, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 14:55
|
|
|
So the last big topic was Custom Death Moves, and it set me off. I love the concept and so I started building custom death moves for all my players last night. Then of course one of their characters died before I managed it. Alas. So I was hoping for a bit of a brainstorm on some of these. My group composes right now of a Fist fighting, enruned Warforged, A righteous true king paladin, a monster hunting storm wizard, a thief assassin and a monster tamer halfling archer. I have two ideas for Death Moves. The Wizard, I'm thinking of stealing that 'Silver Bullet' move, adapting it for the theme of the character, felling giant beasts, etc. But then again, involving the Monsters a bit in the Monster Hunters death would be nice. Secondly, for the Thief, I had something like this Thief posted:On a -6, you leave this mortal plane, but as you do, you swipe one last treasure. Somewhere, anywhere in the world, an item of great value vanishes as you prove that even in death, nothing is safe from your grasp. I'm largely lost on what to do with the Paladin and the Monster Tamer. The Warforged is the replacement for the last character, who hasn't really worked out their character yet, but I think will be some kind of 'Ignore all wounds and pain, cut a path' style Death Move. Anyway, ideas?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 15:36
|
|
|
Ratpick posted:Johnson Troll-slayer. What are the qualities of a Johnson Troll? Why would I want to slay a Johnson Troll?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 17:00
|
|
|
RSIxidor posted:What are the qualities of a Johnson Troll? Why would I want to slay a Johnson Troll? Obviously, it's a troll whose father was named John. You're killing them because John was in the line of succession to the throne, and that claim has passed on to his heirs.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 17:09
|
|
|
RSIxidor posted:What are the qualities of a Johnson Troll? Why would I want to slay a Johnson Troll? No, that would be a Johnson-Troll-slayer. This is a Johnson Troll-slayer, so a Johnson that slays Trolls.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 17:25
|
|
|
Look, I said it was a quiet in and out, how was I to know Renraku would have a Cyber-Zombie demonstration the next floor down? - Johnson Troll-slayer.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 17:35
|
|
|
Is there a list of classes that are done in the newer-Inverse Worldish style?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 17:37
|
|
|
Lemon Curdistan posted:ONE MILLION YEARS DUNGEONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN, ELMO OXYGEN. You really smell like dog buns. edit for content: I wonder if there's a venn diagram for Adventure Time fans and DW players. Elmo Oxygen fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Aug 28, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 18:17
|
|
|
Elmo Oxygen posted:You really smell like dog buns. I keep saying I'm going to get caught up on that. I only watched two episodes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 19:24
|
|
|
Lemon Curdistan posted:good advice I am taking this all into consideration and I agree with almost all of it. I'm new to table top format my self, so this is a learning experience for me. I appreciate the help you have given me here.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 21:54
|
|
|
Ich posted:Thanks! Do you know if any other racial playbooks have been done? I remember The Dwarf was said to be next. I have a half-finished Halfling and Dwarf lying around while I finish other things, and had vague plans of doing an Orc as well. I intend to finish them, have them lie around for free and then package them into a bundle if people want to acknowledge it with a little monetary reward. And all linguistic oddities in my playbooks are 100% intentional. I insert them with the utmost care.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 22:34
|
|
|
I've been kicking around ideas for a dragon playbook but there's probably already a thousand of them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 22:45
|
|
|
Except for the fart jokes in the Elf, those were my fault. Anyway. I'm making a couple of final tweaks to the Assassin, namely getting rid of Thieves' Highway since it's a City Thief move, and I've decided to move Cat's Grace to a 2-5 advance and make the starting moves entirely mundane, so people can make a non-augmented, non-shadow-magic-using assassin if they truly want. Anyway, here's the new starting move: quote:Streetwise Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Aug 28, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 22:54
|
|
|
I like it, but it reads a bit awkwardly. It might read better if phrased positively, i.e. quote:On a 7-9 something has gone wrong, pick one:
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 22:58
|
|
|
Why INT and not CHA? Seems like more of a social move.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 23:27
|
|
|
The Supreme Court posted:I like it, but it reads a bit awkwardly. It might read better if phrased positively, i.e. Rephrased it, edited the updated version into my post. Thanks. Elmo Oxygen posted:Why INT and not CHA? Seems like more of a social move. The Assassin's Int-based, and "you use your brains to ask the right questions" works just as well fiction-wise. e; vvv yeah, that too! Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Aug 28, 2013 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 23:33
|
|
|
Int can also represent listening and eavesdropping, rather than just asking questions, which are equally valid ways for a stealthy assassin to get info.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 23:45
|
|
|
Boing posted:I say since you have two moves that are explicitly for combat (Armed and Dangerous, Behemoth), you want the other two to be for mobility and utility (Leap and Smash), albeit with combat uses as well. Hurl fits the class well enough that it should be a starting move too, and you could easily swap it with either of the other two, but you gotta make a choice. Any reason you can't have five starting moves? I meant to say, thanks for the advice! I tried out the class with 5 starting moves and it felt less focused than I wanted. I'd definitely like to fit more in, so I'm thinking about melding Smash and Behemoth together to make a more versatile and characterful core move: quote:Juggernaut
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2013 23:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 08:19 |
|
|
Nemesis Of Moles posted:So the last big topic was Custom Death Moves, and it set me off. I love the concept and so I started building custom death moves for all my players last night. Then of course one of their characters died before I managed it. Alas. Death Moves shouldn't have a roll, because they're one-time things and loving it up would feel awful. I already wrote a Thief move anyway: Thief Death Move posted:The Ultimate Theft This might work for your Warforged: Golem Death Move posted:Self Destruct Imminent
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2013 00:12
|
|