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Sefer posted:He's still at least an ECL 25 right now, which may make it hard to find anything that actually gives him XP. A level 21 sorcerer lich definitely isn't CR 25. A 23 or maybe even a 22. Levels from templates scale worse for both pure casters and for higher level characters.
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Aug 30, 2013 19:46
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greatn posted:It debunked that specifically? Ha, I was only making a joke. Well, "debunked" in the sense that Keith Baker shows up as an actual in-universe character for a one-off gag. So since he exists in-universe already, he can't be the Snarl. Seriously, anyone who hasn't really should go buy and read Start of Darkness. It's amazing.
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Aug 30, 2013 19:50
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peak debt posted:A level 21 sorcerer lich definitely isn't CR 25. A 23 or maybe even a 22. Levels from templates scale worse for both pure casters and for higher level characters. Doesn't change the fact that a level 21 Sorcerer with the Lich template (+4 level adjustment, not CR) has an ECL of 25, which is what's used in determining XP gain when you're gaining XP.
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Aug 30, 2013 19:55
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peak debt posted:A level 21 sorcerer lich definitely isn't CR 25. A 23 or maybe even a 22. Levels from templates scale worse for both pure casters and for higher level characters. CR and ECL aren't the same thing. Vampires, for instance, are CR + 2 and ECL + 8! (Which is ridiculous). ECL determines how much experience you get from an encounter, CR is how much you give if defeated. As a side note this means Durkon is pretty hosed on the whole 'gaining levels' thing for a long time.
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Aug 30, 2013 19:56
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Xykon probably goes off on planar adventures for his xp at this point.
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Aug 30, 2013 21:45
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Red Metal posted:Doesn't change the fact that a level 21 Sorcerer with the Lich template (+4 level adjustment, not CR) has an ECL of 25, which is what's used in determining XP gain when you're gaining XP. Zore posted:CR and ECL aren't the same thing. Vampires, for instance, are CR + 2 and ECL + 8! (Which is ridiculous). Doesn't ECL only affect PCs? (So Durkon, screwed; Xykon, not.) I thought NPCs could be these things free of that consequence.
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Aug 30, 2013 21:56
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W.T. Fits posted:Well, "debunked" in the sense that Keith Baker shows up as an actual in-universe character for a one-off gag. So since he exists in-universe already, he can't be the Snarl. I'd like to buy it but it isn't for sale anywhere because Burlew apparently trusts digital sales about as much as ulillillia. I can walk over to the one gaming store and pretend they have it in stock.
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Aug 30, 2013 21:57
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Kajeesus posted:It's not "your dad is a commoner," it's "your dad is a dick." Rich likes to show off similarities between people of conflicting alignments and goals, and Tarquin distrusts Haley for exactly the same reason Ian distrusts Elan. Cat Mattress posted:Clawing one's way to the top through ruthless intrigue and brutal conquest is exactly what defines a first-generation blueblood.
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Aug 30, 2013 22:00
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greatn posted:I'd like to buy it but it isn't for sale anywhere because Burlew apparently trusts digital sales about as much as ulillillia. I can walk over to the one gaming store and pretend they have it in stock. You can order a physical copy straight from Ookoodook if you want, but yeah, Rich e: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10753359#post10753359 Apparently Rich doesn't really make enough per copy to have a ton of unsold books just lying around when people are buying the digital version? That seems sort of odd, especially post-kickstarter, but I don't know nearly enough about publishing to say he's wrong. Niton fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Aug 30, 2013 |
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Aug 30, 2013 22:03
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Strudel Man posted:But Tarquin himself is a common person who seized power, so it makes zero sense for him to consider 'common people' to be inferior as a class.
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Aug 30, 2013 22:06
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Zogundar posted:Doesn't ECL only affect PCs? (So Durkon, screwed; Xykon, not.) I thought NPCs could be these things free of that consequence. When Xykon goes on his leveling trips, he's effectively a PC. So it's 20something+4 for determing what XP he gets. As an opponent, it's 20something+2 for determining what XP he gives.
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Aug 30, 2013 22:10
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Strudel Man posted:The whole thing of nobility, of the idea of 'stock,' is the notion that you're special and deserving because of who your parents were. He means "stock" in the sense of how you breed cattle, not how you breed nobility.
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Aug 30, 2013 22:16
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Strudel Man posted:He literally says "lowly stock." That doesn't mean 'dick,' it means 'commoner.' I doubt Tarquin considers himself to be a "common person" even if he came from "common people". Tarquin likely considers everyone that is not him or his kids to be "lowly stock", that's what makes him an arrogant/magnificent douche. It's a burn on Ian for being made into a "Terrorist/assassin/wanted man" and a dig against Haley for being Ian's kid. I doubt it really tells us much on Tarquin's view of class politics, he seems to be more of a "if you can take it, it's yours" kind of guy.
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Aug 30, 2013 22:17
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Niton posted:You can order a physical copy straight from Ookoodook if you want, but yeah, Rich Much like all other CD, book and bideo games publisher, he could sell both. But Rich's kinda weird.
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Aug 30, 2013 22:48
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I mean, he might have a point, fearing piracy of the digital version, except it's relatively probable someone scanned and put up pirated versions the day the books shipped anyway.
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Aug 30, 2013 22:55
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His reasoning was that if he did ebooks then the digital sales would cannibalise those of the print versions to the point where it was no longer economical to sell physical copies, and he likes physical copies because  .That may well actually be true. It's still a spectacularly stupid decision given that he writes a loving webcomic of all things, but he's not going to change his mind.
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Aug 30, 2013 23:46
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D1Sergo posted:I doubt Tarquin considers himself to be a "common person" even if he came from "common people". Tarquin likely considers everyone that is not him or his kids to be "lowly stock", that's what makes him an arrogant/magnificent douche. It's a burn on Ian for being made into a "Terrorist/assassin/wanted man" and a dig against Haley for being Ian's kid. Well, actually, I think he just looks down on everyone without a player class. (And he'd pretty much be right to, we've met like one person without a player class who was competent in anything and that was Shojo.)
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Aug 30, 2013 23:59
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Niton posted:Apparently Rich doesn't really make enough per copy to have a ton of unsold books just lying around when people are buying the digital version? That seems sort of odd, especially post-kickstarter, but I don't know nearly enough about publishing to say he's wrong. Printing books is a remarkably expensive process, and becomes moreso the smaller the print run gets. I used to work at an independent publisher, and we needed to sell most of the books in a print run before we started seeing a genuine profit. I can see his reasoning.
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Aug 31, 2013 00:12
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Wanderer posted:Printing books is a remarkably expensive process, and becomes moreso the smaller the print run gets. I used to work at an independent publisher, and we needed to sell most of the books in a print run before we started seeing a genuine profit. I can see his reasoning. What about when the books go permanently out of print forever? If the kickstarter had failed, would he have released digital copies?
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Aug 31, 2013 00:13
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sfwarlock posted:What about when the books go permanently out of print forever? If the kickstarter had failed, would he have released digital copies? Perhaps. You'd have to ask him; but I think the point is moot.
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Aug 31, 2013 00:35
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greatn posted:I mean, he might have a point, fearing piracy of the digital version, except it's relatively probable someone scanned and put up pirated versions the day the books shipped anyway. Funny thing is, nobody ever did that. There's a bad copy of Start of Darkness somewhere on the internet but that's it. I guess people who pay money for stick comics and people who upload stuff don't overlap,
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Aug 31, 2013 00:46
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Call Now posted:Funny thing is, nobody ever did that. There's a bad copy of Start of Darkness somewhere on the internet but that's it. I guess people who pay money for stick comics and people who upload stuff don't overlap, Oh well that's nice. I guess there kind of is a happy ending there.
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Aug 31, 2013 00:48
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greatn posted:Oh well that's nice. I guess there kind of is a happy ending there. He says in that quote that piracy doesn't worry him, he just thinks physical sales only will make him more money. I am surprised he hasn't tested his theory by putting up, say, OTOOP to see what it does to physical sales though. The next book is a day one purchase for me.
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Aug 31, 2013 01:17
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I'd rather have physical copies anyway- there's just something so satisfying about print and paper. Though I do kind of wonder if this is a generational thing- I'm over 30 now and I wonder if the younger generation prefers e-ink or whatever.
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Aug 31, 2013 01:34
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The flaw in Rich's logic is that 'no one who has a PDF will want a physical book' part. Why no, I wouldn't both like to have a physical, permanent copy of Start of Darkness and one I can read on a phone or tablet, why would you ever think that?
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Aug 31, 2013 01:39
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I think the fact that cannibalizing part of the print market will make it too costly to proceed with the print market is probably a very reasonable point. I mean he'll probably make more money with both if he can do both, but probably less if he has to choose to go digital. Also I can totally understand wanting to be in print, even if you make more digital it probably feels like more of an accomplishment as a producer of content.Pope Guilty posted:Though I do kind of wonder if this is a generational thing- I'm over 30 now and I wonder if the younger generation prefers e-ink or whatever. I am also over 30. And my sixty year old father gave up reading books but giving him a kindle got him back into it.
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Aug 31, 2013 02:02
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sfwarlock posted:What about when the books go permanently out of print forever? If the kickstarter had failed, would he have released digital copies? At the place I used to work at, we had enough people ask on a week-by-week basis that it was tempting to reprint one of our best-sellers, but it wasn't financially feasible because we'd need to print ten thousand copies at a go. Yeah, twenty people a week call up begging to buy it, but even if all twenty of those people mean well, you're still throwing maybe a hundred fifty grand out the window and gambling that most of it's gonna blow back in. This is why half the small-press people on the planet independently poo poo themselves at the success of the Kickstarter. I'd imagine most of the small-press publishers and a few of the big ones have a similar story to tell you: there's something in their back catalog that they want to reprint due to popular demand but it's just not financially justifiable. Burlew crowdsourced the risk and it paid off. Now he doesn't want to gamble on digital sales cannibalizing physical sales and even if he's paranoid, the realities of the small press say it's a reasonable fear.
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Aug 31, 2013 02:44
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Call Now posted:Funny thing is, nobody ever did that. There's a bad copy of Start of Darkness somewhere on the internet but that's it. I guess people who pay money for stick comics and people who upload stuff don't overlap,
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Aug 31, 2013 21:03
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Zogundar posted:Doesn't ECL only affect PCs? (So Durkon, screwed; Xykon, not.) I thought NPCs could be these things free of that consequence. If an NPC is a force of the plot, they're just going to be whatever level the DM wants them to be at the time the party encounters them; see all the jokes about Crystal being tough enough to challenge Haley even though Haley had been out actively adventuring because she was her rival and therefore required by the narrative to be of comparable strength regardless of what Crystal had been doing herself in the interim. Xykon probably works the same way in that he's going to be as strong as the plot needs him to be, but as a more developed character we at least get to see some justification for it. If your DM is  enough to track adventures and advancement for off-screen NPCs then he would be affected normally by his Level Adjustment.
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Sep 1, 2013 00:06
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CapnAndy posted:No, there's good-enough copies of Start of Darkness and Origin of PCs, and people have made pdfs of the comics that're online. No scans of the print copies of the compliations, sadly. I occasionally have the notion of taking the print books, cutting open the spine, and re-binding them in a fancy fancy book form. There is a thread in BBS about binding comic trades.
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Sep 1, 2013 00:28
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That sounds amazing and I'm sure we'd all love to see it if you do. It better be hardcover, though. 
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Sep 1, 2013 05:07
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Pope Guilty posted:I'd rather have physical copies anyway- there's just something so satisfying about print and paper. After having lost or abandoned most of my comics from the age of 5+ to time, decay, or just plain "I don't have room for these 3 tupperware containers full of Dragonball Z comics", I tremendously prefer comics in a PDF/CBZ format that are only going to be lost if a main server drive and 2 external USB backups simultaneously fail. On the other hand, I came from a household that included 4 younger comic-reading siblings so maybe I'm more sensitive to the whole "whoops I shredded your comic because it got wedged under the leg of my bed" thing.
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Sep 1, 2013 05:33
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That's the reason I only ever buy tradebacks. Keeping up with individual issues is just annoying.
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Sep 1, 2013 05:37
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Voyager I posted:If an NPC is a force of the plot, they're just going to be whatever level the DM wants them to be at the time the party encounters them; see all the jokes about Crystal being tough enough to challenge Haley even though Haley had been out actively adventuring because she was her rival and therefore required by the narrative to be of comparable strength regardless of what Crystal had been doing herself in the interim. Let's not forget that OOTS is not a game being played. In-universe, Xykon is a PC. Ish. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Sep 1, 2013 |
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Sep 1, 2013 05:48
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Pope Guilty posted:I'd rather have physical copies anyway- there's just something so satisfying about print and paper. I'm over 30 and buy my monthly stuff digitally, but anything I really like I end up buying in print, since I don't particularly like digital collections.
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Sep 1, 2013 17:37
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The Leper Colon V posted:That sounds amazing and I'm sure we'd all love to see it if you do. It better be hardcover, though. It's on my giant "Things I would like to do" list. If anyone has any designs for a kick-rear end cover, post 'em :V
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Sep 1, 2013 20:29
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Johnny Aztec posted:It's on my giant "Things I would like to do" list. If anyone has any designs for a kick-rear end cover, post 'em :V
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Sep 1, 2013 23:13
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CapnAndy posted:I found this on DeviantArt, which is shockingly pretty good. I know Rich's done it himself but I'm curious as to see how other artists would interpret the OoTS characters with realistic styles.
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Sep 1, 2013 23:38
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Calaveron posted:I know Rich's done it himself but I'm curious as to see how other artists would interpret the OoTS characters with realistic styles. Well, reluctant as I am to link to the other place and also it depends on how you classify "realistic" but there is "The Order of the Stick Manga"...
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Sep 1, 2013 23:49
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jng2058 posted:Well, reluctant as I am to link to the other place and also it depends on how you classify "realistic" but there is "The Order of the Stick Manga"... I was hoping to find OotS done in other styles when I did my search, but, y'know... DeviantArt. Has this person ever seen a human neck ever
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Sep 2, 2013 00:22
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