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bushisms.txt posted:This is Nintendo at it's finest. He's literally hinting at DKCTF, but no one knew. No he's not, he was talking about the Donkey Kong minigame in Nintendoland.
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Aug 31, 2013 22:15
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Shame they couldn't make the pad optional and allow you to use any half decent tablet that a lot of homes already have as a second screen. I recently dusted off my Wii U and loaded up Nintendoland and had a right laugh with the misses, love that Donkey Kong mini game. Not worth the price of admission however.
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Aug 31, 2013 22:16
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Cliff Racer posted:Because its just like a DS expect not a handheld. Except, it's really not. At least on the DS the screens are right next to each other, which allows you to split attention between them easily. With the Wii U you basically have to either look down at the gamepad or up at the TV. You're also left choosing between either using the gamepad for either offscreen play or to do something interesting with regards to gameplay, because you can't do both. The gamepad was a loving horrible idea that ate up resources that would have been better spent virtually anywhere else.
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Aug 31, 2013 22:52
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Q_res posted:Except, it's really not. At least on the DS the screens are right next to each other, which allows you to split attention between them easily. With the Wii U you basically have to either look down at the gamepad or up at the TV. You're also left choosing between either using the gamepad for either offscreen play or to do something interesting with regards to gameplay, because you can't do both. Yeah. They're already out of time to justify it as a gimmick. The only reason the Kinect is still a thing is because Microsoft has the money to keep pushing it no matter what. It's good to have a thing to differentiate a product from the competitors but a meaningless feature isn't one of those things.
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Aug 31, 2013 22:56
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Where did people come up with the idea that Nintendo needed to use gimmick controls in order to differentiate itself from Sony's and Microsoft's consoles? I saw somebody say "If Nintendo had ditched the tablet and waited a year, we'd just have a worse version of the Xbox and PS4." I'd expect Nintendo's games to do the job of differentiation if I hadn't witnessed for myself that they didn't really know what they were doing there, either.
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Aug 31, 2013 23:26
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Fallom posted:Where did people come up with the idea that Nintendo needed to use gimmick controls in order to differentiate itself from Sony's and Microsoft's consoles? I saw somebody say "If Nintendo had ditched the tablet and waited a year, we'd just have a worse version of the Xbox and PS4." It's an extension of Nintendo refusing to compete with the other console makers by making a system that is on parity with them, some folks take the Wii's success to mean that the motion controls are an example of what Nintendo must do to remain in the game. There's also the fact that Nintendo did make a very technically impressive console with the GameCube, and it got buried by the PS2. Of course, I think any system of any era released next to the PS2 would stand a good chance of suffering that same fate, the PS2 ultimately had freakin' everything. I do think it's important to differentiate your system in some way. Traditionally that's been done primarily through what is available exclusively to your platform. The thing with the Wii U is that their effort to repeat the whole "being different" deal that the Wii managed to do has not turned out to be a very smart economical decision. It's costly to make the Wii U since its tethered to requiring a GamePad, and as a gimmick it simply doesn't have the same "ease of entry" that swinging around a WiiMote represented. People fondly look to their first experience with WiiSports for good reasons I think. Rather than learning some controls that don't really reflect what is happening on screen, the player just swings their hand and they hit the ball back. Simple, natural-feeling, anyone who doesn't suffer from a physical disability could do it. Of course, they could have gone a step further and make more games have traditional control options, not to take away from the "importance" of motion controls, but simply to have an improved product that gives people some OPTIONS. Not everyone needs or wants to flail their arms around to perform basic tasks for a twenty hour Zelda adventure. They never needed a GamePad. They needed to refine what the Wii originally promised, while still allowing people to play with classic controls. They also needed to do their homework on HD development, and they sure as poo poo needed to be more aggressive at courting third parties to the hardware. That stupidly huge warchest fanboys like to keep crowing about does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING if it's not being used to support the system before and after it launches.
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Aug 31, 2013 23:44
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Yes, they needed the gamepad, but they needed the software, hardware and functional OS to back it up. Instead, we got traditional Nintendo releases (a game every couple months), underpowered hardware that wasn't future proofed, and a slow as poo poo OS that STILL has yet to receive its final patch. Nintendo needed a Wii Sports title on launch and hoped Nintendoland would be that game, but it wasn't.
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Aug 31, 2013 23:52
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Louisgod posted:Yes, they needed the gamepad, but they needed the software, hardware and functional OS to back it up. Instead, we got traditional Nintendo releases (a game every couple months), underpowered hardware that wasn't future proofed, and a slow as poo poo OS that STILL has yet to receive its final patch. Nintendo needed a Wii Sports title on launch and hoped Nintendoland would be that game, but it wasn't. Nintendoland should have been named Wii Sports, I agree.
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Sep 1, 2013 00:04
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Trollologist posted:
I was with you up until this, no competition is a bad, terrible, awful thing. And to add to this convo, please Nintendo, update your loving store already, its a goddamn travesty.
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Sep 1, 2013 00:35
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Alteisen posted:no competition is a bad, terrible, awful thing.  Alteisen posted:And to add to this convo, please Nintendo, update your loving store already, its a goddamn travesty.
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Sep 1, 2013 03:54
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Cliff Racer posted:Because its just like a DS except not a handheld. They do enough with that that I think its worth having for ports if nothing else. Granted there haven't been any ports for some reason so I guess that isn't happening. It's like a DS except it's cumbersome at best. Someone in the thread mentioned earlier that a controller should be an invisible part of the gaming experience. That's basically impossible when i'm holding something the size of a tablet and constantly being asked to stop staring at the TV so I can look at my controller screen for a half-assed "innovative" feature. It's not like a DS handheld where I can keep both screens in my eyesight with no issue.
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Sep 1, 2013 09:19
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Has a system ever recovered from such a terrible first year and went on to become sucessful? Because the Wii-U numbers are lower than any system in recent memory other than the Vita. I mean it's rivaling the Sega CD in terms of units sold. http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?13068-MegaDrive-in-Japan/page5 It's just interesting to watch, because this could possibly be a unique case among consoles. Because if it does recover it might possibly be the first to do so.
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Sep 1, 2013 13:58
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It's difficult to see how it could bounce back after having such a lackluster year only to be kicked while it's down by the launch of the next console cycle. If the Wii U has an abysmal Christmas, I wonder what Nintendo's next step would be.
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Sep 1, 2013 18:06
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To fire top level people, most likely, but not to cut bait and run on the U yet.
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Sep 1, 2013 18:11
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Quest For Glory II posted:To fire top level people, most likely, but not to cut bait and run on the U yet. If Nintendo cuts the Wii-U before X reaches America I'm gonna be mad. After X gets released then I don't care, at least it reached Saturn grade quality by having one good RPG. Before exploding into a firey abyss taking Iwata and Reggie with it.
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Sep 1, 2013 18:21
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Louisgod posted:underpowered hardware that wasn't future proofed That's is a really important detail. The hardware is (best guess) not a great deal quicker than the 360/PS3, the tablet means it isn't cheap to make, the marketing is confused and the software is somehow still not ready? Obviously the weak hardware didn't hinder the Wii in any meaningful sense, but that doesn't mean the same applies this time. Extra effort required from developers and a small installation base is a tough situation. Their projected 9 million consoles sold this year means Nintendo still believe it's going to take off big time, but I cannot see where their optimism is coming from. A price cut alone isn't going to turn this into the success they want; even if they say, quadruple their sales worldwide, those numbers still won't be amazing. Has anyone seen anything on how much the Wii's not-DVD or the Wii U's not-Bluray discs cost? Nintendo said they didn't want to pay to license the consoles for playback, but I'd be interested to know how much extra it cost them to invent and produce their own marginally different format.
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Sep 1, 2013 18:23
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So...I never had a Wii and I've been considering getting a WiiU after the price drop to play all the Wii titles I missed while having the potential to get WiiU games later. Is this a good plan or should I just get a Wii?
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Sep 1, 2013 18:30
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Patter Song posted:So...I never had a Wii and I've been considering getting a WiiU after the price drop to play all the Wii titles I missed while having the potential to get WiiU games later. Is this a good plan or should I just get a Wii? Depends, it's cheaper to get an original version Wii which plays wii games and Gamecube games. Gamecube and Wii games are both really cheap right now. Outisde of Xenoblade barely any game exceeds 90 bucks. Wii-U can play wii games but not Gamecube games. The Wii and Gamecube combined are a much stronger library but the Wii and Wii-U library still has new games made for it.
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Sep 1, 2013 18:32
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Patter Song posted:So...I never had a Wii and I've been considering getting a WiiU after the price drop to play all the Wii titles I missed while having the potential to get WiiU games later. Is this a good plan or should I just get a Wii? If you get one of the original wiis you will also be able to play gamecube games on it. Depends if you care about that or not but a Wii is probably cheap on ebay.
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Sep 1, 2013 18:33
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Patter Song posted:So...I never had a Wii and I've been considering getting a WiiU after the price drop to play all the Wii titles I missed while having the potential to get WiiU games later. Is this a good plan or should I just get a Wii? Wiis are also ridiculously easy to softmod.
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Sep 1, 2013 18:46
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J-Spot posted:I'm curious why you (or anyone who wants to chime in) thinks the pad was a good idea? Nintendo talks about the unique experiences that are possible, but I've seen nothing in the upcoming Mario, Smash Bros, Donkey Kong, or Mario Kart games that proves the value of the pad. So far it hasn't had much application outside of letting you play your game while someone else is using the tv, and if Sony's Vita/PS4 integration works as advertised then it will utterly spank the U on the front. I love the pad for several reasons that all work together, I think. First of all, Nintendo Land does show off some uses of the pad very well. Asymmetrical gameplay can be very fun. Also, boost mode in NSMBU and murfy in Rayman also are nice options to have that some players really enjoy. Zombi U is a very atmospheric survival horror which is helped, in my experience, by the gamepad integration. Proof of concept is already available in retail software from day one, then. All that is left is for developers to get creative and expand on these ideas and bring new, unthought of as yet, ideas to Wii U software. In that respect, we have Bumpie's Party, if nothing else. Who even needs a tv, when you have Bumpie's Party on your Wii U? Off-tv play is great for me. And I didn't have to buy a $200 handheld - which uses (way) overpriced memory cards, and which doesn't have a whole lot of games that I would really be excited to play - to make use of this feature. The Wii U's web browser is great and is made even better because of the Gamepad. Playing youtube videos on the tv while browsing for the next video or reading a thread or article on the Gamepad is very handy. Miiverse is much more entertaining and useful with the pad as the standard controller than it would be if the Pro controller was the standard with the Gamepad available as an optional accessory. In my opinion, of course. That's my guess, anyways. The drawings, the easy typing on the virtual keyboard - it makes posting to miiverse easy, quick, fun, and useful when you're trying to get answers to a question as well. I don't unreasonably expect that every piece of software released for the Wii U must make a compelling case for gamepad integration into the gameplay. And I don't think that every bit of software must be playable off-tv, either. If it's a great piece of software, then I don't care if it uses none of the gamepad's unique features, and I don't care if the developers decided not to enable off-tv play. I think it's ok for a developer to create software that is right at home with a "traditional" controller and nothing else, if that's where they want to spend their effort during development, and if that subsequently leads to the release of a piece of software that I value for what it is. What it isn't is sort of irrelevant to me at that point. Giving developers the option to use the features of a very sophisticated controller is quite enough in most cases. If, at the end of the Wii U's time, no developers have actually used it creatively, then I will just be disappointed in the developers, not the gamepad. The gamepad definitely has potential. I'm quite glad that Nintendo has tried the second-screen in-the-controller angle at this point. I'm also glad that Nintendo is conservative and financially healthy enough that I can feel confident, even at this point, that it will be supported by Nintendo's developers for at least the normal span of time allotted to most consoles, historically (5-6 years). I don't care that Wii U has less rams and less raw "horsepower" than other systems set to release this gen. Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101 and NSMBU all look very nice to me, and that's all I really want there, considering that I mostly enjoy games as something I play. As long as the visuals look nice to me and aren't in the way of my actually playing the game, I'm pretty happy. But then I also judge cars based mostly on whether I like to drive them, and not on how they look. So nixing the gamepad and adding more rams and gigaflops would not particularly impress me anyways.
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Sep 1, 2013 18:51
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ChaseSP posted:If you get one of the original wiis you will also be able to play gamecube games on it. Depends if you care about that or not but a Wii is probably cheap on ebay. Chaltab fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Sep 1, 2013 |
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Sep 1, 2013 18:55
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Chaltab posted:Yeah it pretty much comes down to what's more important to you: Gamecube's back catalog or the future of HD Nintendo franchises. Keeping in mind that several prominent Gamecube games such as Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime 1&2, and Twilight Princess have Wii versions. And that Zelda: The Wind Waker has a Wii U port launching later this month. Two words: Rogue Squadron. Rogue Squadron II was one of the best launch titles I can think of. It was a really fun game, and it really showed off the console. It still looks really goddamn good even today. I don't really like the third one, because they decided to shoehorn in some lovely 3rd person shooter levels.
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Sep 1, 2013 19:18
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Jumbled_Johnsons posted:I don't care that Wii U has less rams and less raw "horsepower" than other systems set to release this gen. Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101 and NSMBU all look very nice to me, and that's all I really want there, considering that I mostly enjoy games as something I play. As long as the visuals look nice to me and aren't in the way of my actually playing the game, I'm pretty happy. I completely agree with this. However, there is a much larger issue created by nintendo not keeping up with the other major consoles. And it's about 3rd party software. You see, as a software developer (this extends to a ton of other businesses as well but we'll just use game devs for this point) you have to worry about something called "installed user base" basically, how many people are able to play your game. Games cost a whole bunch of money to make and market. like a TON of dollerydoos. Think HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars (or so). If producing it on the xbox and the PS3 is basically the same endeavor but with a minor performance tweak here and there it makes sense to practically double your installed user base by just spending like a week making it happen. Meanwhile getting it up and running for the wii/wii-u basically means building an entirely different game from the ground up, it's not really worth the work, since there's not a ton of wii-u's out there. Then when the marketing machine gets running full steam for your game, you have to tell people where they can play it. There's a bunch of people who bought an xbox to play gears of war, sure. but there's also a ton of folks who bought a ps3 or 360 just to play assassin's creed. AAA third party titles move units. Maybe less then super great exclusives, but they still do. And there's way more AAA third party titles then super great exclusives for any given console. And this is where the problem starts. By not keeping up with the other consoles at this point, there's no need for other developers to port to the wii-u. as the ps4 and xb1 get prettier, and prettier games, the wii-u is going to have less and less AAA titles. and this means that there will be less units moved since no one's buying a wii-u for skyrim2 or battlefield4 or CoD:whatever because as much as people love nintendo titles, they also love marvel vs capcom 3, sf4, fallout 3, modern warfare, and whatever rockstar is making. this is going to create a downward spiral of dwindling sales and the wii-u dies just about right after nintendo dumps all the "MAIN franchise" games (a zelda, a mario, maybe a kirby or a dk, and mario cart)
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Sep 1, 2013 19:20
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WendigoJohnson posted:If Nintendo cuts the Wii-U before X reaches America I'm gonna be mad.
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Sep 1, 2013 19:34
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Quest For Glory II posted:It's pretty funny how everyone assumes X is coming to America, like Nintendo isn't going to pull the same exact poo poo of "Oh it probably wont sell so we wont bother" that they tried to do with Xenoblade before the petitioning. This is what I'm afraid of. And if they pull that poo poo again, may they be elbowed from the ropes by the Sonypocalypse. Seriously it was bad enough to find that the Wii had 6 or 7 other RPGs withheld from America that had previous installments on other systems.
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Sep 1, 2013 19:37
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Quest For Glory II posted:It's pretty funny how everyone assumes X is coming to America, like Nintendo isn't going to pull the same exact poo poo of "Oh it probably wont sell so we wont bother" that they tried to do with Xenoblade before the petitioning. I'd say the fact that it was in their E3 Direct and both the initial teaser and E3 trailer are up on their American YouTube channel give it a good chance. When they announce something that's strictly intended for Japan only now a days they usually post it to their Japanese Direct page like Tomodatchi Collection and the like.
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Sep 1, 2013 19:43
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There's almost no chance X doesn't make it to NA. It was on Nintendo's release schedule as 2014 in all territories, and they've showed it in several NA Directs at this point.
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Sep 1, 2013 19:45
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Well let's hope Nintendo sticks to its word. X is still in development and they have to be sweating bullets with how poorly W101 is doing, if Bayo bombs as well they might get insanely wary of funding and putting out more niche titles like that.
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Sep 1, 2013 20:04
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Jumbled_Johnsons posted:
Dude the 3DS XL's memory cards are cheap, and they have a shitload of games to play.
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Sep 1, 2013 20:24
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Trollologist posted:I completely agree with this. However, there is a much larger issue created by nintendo not keeping up with the other major consoles. And it's about 3rd party software. Which is to say, the difficulty of porting code will vary wildly depending on the type of game. quote:And this is where the problem starts. By not keeping up with the other consoles at this point, there's no need for other developers to port to the wii-u. as the ps4 and xb1 get prettier, and prettier games, the wii-u is going to have less and less AAA titles. and this means that there will be less units moved since no one's buying a wii-u for skyrim2 or battlefield4 or CoD:whatever because as much as people love nintendo titles, they also love marvel vs capcom 3, sf4, fallout 3, modern warfare, and whatever rockstar is making.
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Sep 1, 2013 20:27
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Rudoku posted:Dude the 3DS XL's memory cards are cheap, and they have a shitload of games to play. Pretty sure he's talking about the Vita.
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Sep 1, 2013 20:33
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Quest For Glory II posted:To fire top level people, most likely, but not to cut bait and run on the U yet. This is a Japanese company, so if they're doing badly it's definitely not anyone with seniority that's getting fired. Lower level workers will take the blame for the failures no matter how little sense it makes, because Japan!
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Sep 1, 2013 20:34
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Alteisen posted:Well let's hope Nintendo sticks to its word. X is still in development and they have to be sweating bullets with how poorly W101 is doing, if Bayo bombs as well they might get insanely wary of funding and putting out more niche titles like that. Rudoku posted:Dude the 3DS XL's memory cards are cheap, and they have a shitload of games to play. 
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Sep 1, 2013 20:37
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Chaltab posted:
Yeah I know. 
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Sep 1, 2013 20:38
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Alteisen posted:Well let's hope Nintendo sticks to its word. X is still in development and they have to be sweating bullets with how poorly W101 is doing, if Bayo bombs as well they might get insanely wary of funding and putting out more niche titles like that. Shouldn't Nintendo be more concerned with not making their money back on a game like Pikmin 3 that's been in development for the better part of a decade? I don't think they even expected a lot with W101 given the low print run of it, not to mention the budget was probably (comparably) small given Platinum's track record.
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Sep 1, 2013 20:45
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Pikmin 3's sales were really good [for a Wii U game]. And Nintendo titles tend to be evergreen.
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Sep 1, 2013 20:50
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Bovineicide posted:Shouldn't Nintendo be more concerned with not making their money back on a game like Pikmin 3 that's been in development for the better part of a decade? I don't think they even expected a lot with W101 given the low print run of it, not to mention the budget was probably (comparably) small given Platinum's track record. W101 had a bigger budget than Bayonetta according to Kamiya. quote:Not sure how the sales of a niche game like W101 or Bayonetta related to a first party Nintendo title with X's pedigree. X is just as niche as those 2 games you mentioned.
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Sep 1, 2013 21:22
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Chaltab posted:You're rather understating the amount of work it takes to move between PS3 and 360. Their architectures are crazy different. Wii U has more similarities to the Xbox 360 than PS3 does. However this is a valid point for the PS4 and XBO, which have shockingly similar internals. Wii U uses Power PC instead of x86 and has 3 cores instead of 8 in its processor. However, the clock cycles gap of its processor is actually much shorter: Wii U's 1.2Ghz to PS4/XBO's 1.6. Firstly,I totally agree with you here. I don't know dick all about porting cross-console for games. The point I was laboring towards was basically that if your hardware can't even RENDER the game, and in order to get it to work on your hardware they basically have to make a brand new game with all new lower-poly models, lower res textures, and you have to do it in a completely different engine (since for example the wii-u can't run frostbite 3), it's probably not woth the time to do.
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Sep 1, 2013 21:25
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Trollologist posted:Firstly,I totally agree with you here. I don't know dick all about porting cross-console for games. The point I was laboring towards was basically that if your hardware can't even RENDER the game, and in order to get it to work on your hardware they basically have to make a brand new game with all new lower-poly models, lower res textures, and you have to do it in a completely different engine (since for example the wii-u can't run frostbite 3), it's probably not woth the time to do. I think you're right on this, since this was pretty much what I figured when the Wii U details started to come out and people started talking about how it's basically in the same ballpark as 360/PS3 in terms of power. However, let's not forget that we're already seeing a fair number of companies who aren't bothering to even port their 360/PS3 games to the Wii U, which means that third-party support is bleeding out far faster than expected and it's not just because of the hardware power. Which is actually really awful, because it means that even if Nintendo can manage to turn around the Wii U in the short term, once the third-parties roll over, the Wii U is probably going to be exactly back where it is today where basically only Nintendo is supporting it and everything will be dependent on Nintendo having a consistent release schedule.
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Sep 1, 2013 22:00
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