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The_Frag_Man posted:The feedback from that Bethesda guy is pretty brutal, but I have to wonder about it. There were third party titles at launch after all like ZombiU. I think he's really just saying that the hardware isn't suitable for the large open world type games that they want to make, which is fair enough. It is still a system no one wants.
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Sep 3, 2013 12:16
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Most games really just use the Wii U tablet for offscreen gaming. Very few games take advantage of the assymetrical gameplay, and it really only shines in Nintendo land and enabling 5-player co-op (like Sonic racing). Nintendo saw how well tablets were doing and thought that incorporating a tablet was a good idea. I think this was touched on long ago in this thread, however.
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Sep 3, 2013 12:22
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The_Frag_Man posted:Why did Nintendo think people want/wanted a system like this? Developers don't want to make dual-screen tablet games, and consumers want next-gen systems. Also a well-discussed topic, but it's mostly due to Nintendo's complete ignorance towards the evolution of gaming and the gamer as a whole. Whereas Sony and Microsoft went to major developers asking for input as to what their next console needs to attract developers to their system, Nintendo made a console that was convenient for their purposes alone and basically told third-parties to deal with it. Whereas Sony and Microsoft continue to improve on their online infrastructure cause it's become a standard for gaming, Nintendo barely wants to admit the internet exists and only adds barebone features and an online infrastructure so poor that developers are already cutting online features from WiiU ports that are present in PS3/360. Nintendo was also ignorant of HD in general. While developers for the PS3 and 360 have had 6-7 years of practice to make those cutting-edge graphics for next-gen systems, Nintendo entered the HD market as complete rookies, and their pitifully slow development time and laughable first year with the WiiU is proof of this. Nintendo was attempting to create a console that could appeal to both their no-longer-existing Wii userbase, and bring back the core gamer after they got alienated by the Wii. The problem of course, is that the Wii was a monstrously successful fluke, and all those moms and grandmas who originally bought a Wii have moved on to their tablets and phones for gaming. The core gamer isn't buying it either, cause they're smart enough to know that the PS4 and even the Xbone are far better value for the money. What's going to happen to the WiiU once developers start abandoning the PS3/360 and go pure PS4/Xbone? Any scraps the WiiU is getting now are going to completely disappear.
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Sep 3, 2013 12:50
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There's no point in just dropping support the Wii U and starting again with a new console, because developers will be just as skeptical of that one. They need to both improve the current console, as well as communicate with developers on how to make the next one better. Even if the Wii U only lasts about four years before the replacement comes, Sony was able to turn their console around in the same period of time.
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Sep 3, 2013 15:51
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If Nintendo were to kill off the Wii U and start over, I would be even more unlikely to give the new system a chance. Nintendo needs to show they could turn the Wii U around and have it eventually turn into a successful console. If they kill the Wii U off it should be because they want to focus on the handheld market only from here on out. I was smart and held onto that belief with the Sega Dreamcast. Sega discontinued the Saturn, so why does it make sense at all to get the Dreamcast? Sure enough that system suffered the same fate.
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Sep 3, 2013 15:58
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Bovineicide posted:This argument was really naive 15 years ago, and it still is today. Their handhelds print money, and they aren't going to give that up so they can make less money by paying Sony and Microsoft licensing fees. Neither of them have a viable mobile device for games right now, anyway. The iOS and Play stores are right out because few people play phone games outside of waiting rooms or the shitter. Also, the average age of a Steam user is way the gently caress out of their intended audience. Even if the Wii U died a Dreamcast death, Nintendo still has the handheld market. There is no way they would make a PS4/XBO Zelda or Mario just because they aren't making the WIi U anymore. They would focus their efforts on the handheld market and keep their IPs exclusive. Does nobody realize that?
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Sep 3, 2013 16:16
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" Meanwhile, Iwata and Co. are going to continue wiping their asses with $100 bills because a new set of Pokemon games comes out next month. Yes, the Wii-U is pretty hosed, but their handhelds aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
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Their next handheld will probably be approaching WiiU strength anyway, and they'll probably give it a dongle to stream to an hdmi port.
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Sep 3, 2013 16:21
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greatn posted:Their next handheld will probably be approaching WiiU strength anyway, and they'll probably give it a dongle to stream to an hdmi port. If they stick with the two screens, they may as well keep the system as close in specs as possible and just do some straight ports of WiiU games.
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Sep 3, 2013 16:25
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I really don't understand folks saying "there's only room for two consoles, Nintendo should duck out." Nintendo won the last console war by any measure of things that isn't "Nintendo doesn't count because...", and a flop afterward doesn't change that. The customers are there, the same ones that X360 and PS3 ignored last time, Nintendo just has to figure out how to get them. It's a marketing issue. Figure out some great family ways to use the second screen (apparently Nintendo Land had a lot of good ideas) and improve the wiimote use and such, emphasize that it's a new console and not a peripheral (they really dropped the ball here), and promote the poo poo out of it somewhere that isn't Nintendo Direct. Direct is a great news resource, but only if you know and care it exists. I saw Wii ads all over TV, and nothing for the Wii U. For that matter push out some ads for Direct as well, and turn the PC archive page into a prettied-up portal. Make Direct easy to browse for folks who don't have a system yet, and make it easy for them to go from that to buying a system.
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Sep 3, 2013 16:44
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Bruceski posted:I really don't understand folks saying "there's only room for two consoles, Nintendo should duck out." Nintendo won the last console war by any measure of things that isn't "Nintendo doesn't count because...", and a flop afterward doesn't change that. Says who? And don't cite sales numbers, that doesn't do anything for anyone but Nintendo. I think the Wii failed miserably. It was nothing but Nintendo exclusives and shovel ware (with only a handful of unique exceptions), making it a pretty unappealing console for most people. The system sold well but its library of games was really weak, and software profits were nothing compared to what Sony or Microsoft made because the audience on the Wii is not the type to buy video games often. Maybe 2 or 3 titles a year total.
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Sep 3, 2013 16:48
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Bruceski posted:I really don't understand folks saying "there's only room for two consoles, Nintendo should duck out." Nintendo won the last console war by any measure of things that isn't "Nintendo doesn't count because...", and a flop afterward doesn't change that. If Nintendo wants to get their Wii customers back they should put Mario on the iPad.
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Sep 3, 2013 16:49
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Bruceski posted:I really don't understand folks saying "there's only room for two consoles, Nintendo should duck out." Nintendo won the last console war by any measure of things that isn't "Nintendo doesn't count because...", and a flop afterward doesn't change that. There's the whole thing where console lifecycles can be expected to be a decent deal longer now, so having your console permanently in a distant third place is going to be much more of a problem. Seriously, imagine how it's going to look playing games on the Wii U in 5 years? We all remember that the Wii had very little worthwhile games coming out in its last few years.
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Sep 3, 2013 16:53
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Bruceski posted:I really don't understand folks saying "there's only room for two consoles, Nintendo should duck out." Nintendo won the last console war by any measure of things that isn't "Nintendo doesn't count because...", and a flop afterward doesn't change that. They won sales. That's hardly the only determining factor in who "won" the current console war.
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Sep 3, 2013 16:57
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Just like with the Wii, when the next new Zelda game comes out, the Wii U will be my $300 Zelda system. Am I the only one?
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Sep 3, 2013 16:58
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Alright I think I figured it out. Cookie Clicker port for the Wii U. Where's my check? Can I cash it out into cookies?
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Sep 3, 2013 16:59
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TaurusOxford posted:They won sales. That's hardly the only determining factor in who "won" the current console war. Wii sold the most and made the most money but did it win the hearts and minds of the people? Seriously, this is moving goalposts.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:00
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I said come in! posted:Says who? And don't cite sales numbers, that doesn't do anything for anyone but Nintendo. Well your definition of winning is arbitrary based on the console you got the most enjoyment on it seems. Haven't Sony and Microsofts gaming divisions posted losses in the billions of dollars combined over the last 10 years? Nintendo posts it's first loss and it's all doom and gloom.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:02
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Jet Set Jettison posted:Wii sold the most and made the most money but did it win the hearts and minds of the people? Do we have any actual numbers on this? Cause as far as I know this isn't true. Software sales for Nintendo were actually pretty awful in comparison. This is why Nintendo was banking on bringing in the hardcore crowd with the Wii U. Their core audience on the Wii, for all intents and purposes was totally useless to Nintendo. Lots of them, but they weren't buying software in the numbers Nintendo wanted.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:08
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Bruceski posted:The customers are there, the same ones that X360 and PS3 ignored last time, Nintendo just has to figure out how to get them. Those customers became forever more unreachable to Nintendo after they bought their first and last $200 console. They don't care about Mario. They don't care about dual screens. They don't care about having a better Wii, because they have no concept of what another console might do that the Wii doesn't already do for them. They've moved on to smart phones and tablets.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:09
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Bruceski posted:The customers are there, the same ones that X360 and PS3 ignored last time, Nintendo just has to figure out how to get them. You don't. The Wii is essentially a fad machine that relied on good press and was able to quickly and cheaply churn out a large amount of titles that capitalized on it's primary gimmick. To reignite the interest that pushed the Wii so hard you either need to A) Find a way to package the same experience, only slightly more refined and/or at a cheaper price point or B) offer a product that's the same style but orders of magnitude more well designed so that you can justify a higher price point and re-adoption rate. And in the year 2013, you still have to solve the question of how you get people to go along with this when you can get game content on smartphones and tablets. Sweetgrass fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Sep 3, 2013 |
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Sep 3, 2013 17:12
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Jet Set Jettison posted:Wii sold the most and made the most money but did it win the hearts and minds of the people? Nobody denies that the Wii moved the most consoles but while it drew in a ton of customers who usually didn't play games, it failed to convert them into people who'd buy games and consoles. Plus, in terms of games, Nintendo's stuff sold well but third-parties didn't do nearly so well. Combined with Nintendo's apparent lack of serious third-party development support leading up to the Wii U, it's no surprise that developers and publishers aren't really eager to release anything on the Wii U.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:15
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I said come in! posted:Do we have any actual numbers on this? Cause as far as I know this isn't true. Software sales for Nintendo were actually pretty awful in comparison. This is why Nintendo was banking on bringing in the hardcore crowd with the Wii U. Their core audience on the Wii, for all intents and purposes was totally useless to Nintendo. Lots of them, but they weren't buying software in the numbers Nintendo wanted. I definitely saw an article with more recent numbers but I'm at work so its hard for me to find it. This is the next best thing but a bit outdated. http://www.ign.com/articles/2008/01/24/wii-tie-ratio-at-81-in-december If I get a chance, I'll look for the more recent article. It talked about wii's attach rate that suddenly dropped off in the last years of the consoles life.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:16
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Sweetgrass posted:To reignite the interest that pushed the Wii so hard you either need to A) Find a way to package the same experience, only slightly more refined and/or at a cheaper price point or Hi, I'm the casual customer who helped make the Wii a success. You're telling me there's another console out there that costs over $100 and offers Wii Tennis? I already have Wii Tennis! What do you mean it has better controls? It controlled fine! What are graphics? It looked fine!
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Sep 3, 2013 17:17
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Jet Set Jettison posted:I definitely saw an article with more recent numbers but I'm at work so its hard for me to find it. This is the next best thing but a bit outdated. Well that for sure goes against everything i've heard. That seems like a pretty impressive number, and the drop off at the end of the consoles life is not unexpected. Wouldn't hold that against the Wii, just a fact of a new console coming out. It'll happen to the 360 and PS3 as well.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:18
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I said come in! posted:Well that for sure goes against everything i've heard. That seems like a pretty impressive number, and the drop off at the end of the consoles life is not unexpected. Wouldn't hold that against the Wii, just a fact of a new console coming out. It'll happen to the 360 and PS3 as well. Yeah, I know its a bit  but theres a lot of misinformation about the Wii as a brand and nintendo. In fact Emily Rogers wrote a whole article about how one of the major issues with nintendo right now is they have been fighting bad press.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:21
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Jet Set Jettison posted:Yeah, I know its a bit I think you're totally right about that. There were some things I use to assume were true about Nintendo that i've recently discovered were not. Microsoft and Sony have the same problems, but it seems like its not on the same level as Nintendo.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:23
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I said come in! posted:Well that for sure goes against everything i've heard. That seems like a pretty impressive number, and the drop off at the end of the consoles life is not unexpected. Wouldn't hold that against the Wii, just a fact of a new console coming out. It'll happen to the 360 and PS3 as well. Do Pollyanna references still work on people or is it too old at this point?
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Sep 3, 2013 17:24
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Jet Set Jettison posted:I definitely saw an article with more recent numbers but I'm at work so its hard for me to find it. This is the next best thing but a bit outdated. Yeah... but... but... all those games are just shovelware so those don't count!  Seriously, have the Playstation and XBox divisions as a whole ever turned a profit? I get Sony and Microsofts desire to be in the living rooms of every household in the world, but how much money do they need to lose in order to put Nintendo out of business so that they can "Win". I don't get it...
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Sep 3, 2013 17:28
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TheScott2K posted:Do Pollyanna references still work on people or is it too old at this point? When you look for the bad in a system expecting to find it, you surely will find it.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:31
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Astro7x posted:Yeah... but... but... all those games are just shovelware so those don't count! I thought Playstation was basically the only profitable thing in Sony and is keeping them afloat.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:37
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Bovineicide posted:This argument was really naive 15 years ago, and it still is today. Their handhelds print money, and they aren't going to give that up so they can make less money by paying Sony and Microsoft licensing fees. Neither of them have a viable mobile device for games right now, anyway. The iOS and Play stores are right out because few people play phone games outside of waiting rooms or the shitter. Also, the average age of a Steam user is way the gently caress out of their intended audience. What? I said they should keep making handhelds in the first sentence and my post had nothing to do with handhelds. It has nothing to do with fairness. It would make sense for a company with a failing system and popular IP's to start bringing their IP's other consoles. How many people would buy Mario and Zelda if they didn't have to buy a system they didn't want to play them? Sir Ilpalazzo posted:This is pretty much why Nintendo going third-party wouldn't be good for fans of their games. Look at what happened to Sega as both a publisher and developer once they left the hardware business. What happened to Sega is Segas fault, not their decision to duck out of the console wars. They don't even bother to advertise their games. veni veni veni fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Sep 3, 2013 |
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Sep 3, 2013 17:39
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greatn posted:I thought Playstation was basically the only profitable thing in Sony and is keeping them afloat. Sony makes way, way, way more stuff than just game consoles. Keep in mind Sony gets those sweet, sweet licensing fees for all Blu-Ray discs. Also any number of non-playstation entertainment devices. ^^edit: I sure as hell would. I'm all but guaranteed to get a PS4 at some point if for no other reason than because fighting games aren't going to be switching to PC anytime soon, owing to the need for standardized hardware in the genre. There's already several great first party IP's I'm looking forward to on it, and a Zelda game would essentially make it my ideal console. edit2: It's still not going to happen, but a man can dream. 
THE FUCKING MOON fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Sep 3, 2013 |
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Sep 3, 2013 17:40
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One and the Same posted:Sony makes way, way, way more stuff than just game consoles. Keep in mind Sony gets those sweet, sweet licensing fees for all Blu-Ray discs. Also any number of non-playstation entertainment devices. I know but from what I've heard their TV division is in the tank, laptops are dying. Bluray is not all that popular despite winning the format wars thanks to On Demand video streaming, their movie division is failing at the box office. But Playstation is doing pretty great
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Sep 3, 2013 17:46
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greatn posted:I thought Playstation was basically the only profitable thing in Sony and is keeping them afloat. 4.6 Billion in loses from PS3 launch up until 2011 at least from a quick google search. http://www.vg247.com/2009/10/30/sony-ps-division-has-lost-4-7-billion-since-launching-ps3/ Do people not know that the Playstation and XBox divisions are not profitable for Sony or Microsoft? How are people even saying that the Wii didn't win the last generation when Nintendo went 30 years without posting a single profit loss until very recently.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:46
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Jet Set Jettison posted:Wii sold the most and made the most money but did it win the hearts and minds of the people? "Oh yeah, I bought a Wii, I had so much fun with Wii Sports. That was great! And then nothing else came out for it and it's been gathering dust for years." It was my experience. And plenty of other people have posted the same thing, verbatim. I'd wager it was the experience of a majority of the people who bought one, or certainly a sizable minority. They've been burned by Nintendo and don't feel like sticking their hands back into the fire. Every single person who came away from the Wii thinking of it as that quirky console with lots of potential that squandered it all and became a paperweight is less likely to buy a Wii U than someone who didn't buy a Wii at all. And a lot of people bought a Wii.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:49
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Astro7x posted:4.6 Billion in loses from PS3 launch up until 2011 at least from a quick google search. There has been a pretty fast turnaround though ever since PSPlus. I also was under the impression Xbox live is like a free money machine. These mega corporations it is hard to trust any numbers on though. Accounting just shifts losses to whatever their bosses tell them to.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:52
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I only got a Wii U for Monster Hunter and that's only because Capcom and Sony's relationship soured or something. Alternatively, they wanted to go with the 3DS rather than bet on the Vita.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:52
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CapnAndy posted:And a lot of people bought a Wii. I think you fundamentally misunderstand the market the Wii sold to.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:53
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Casnorf posted:I think you fundamentally misunderstand the market the Wii sold to.
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Sep 3, 2013 18:02
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Astro7x posted:Yeah... but... but... all those games are just shovelware so those don't count! Don't be asinine, that article isn't a great measure of strength for software attachment either. The tricky thing about tie in ratios when it comes to software is that it's only a snapshot of that particular moment in time; in regards to the article, the Wii had a strong tie-in ratio in 2008 that was a solid lead over Sony but not MS, but examine the same data a year later and the Wii's tie in has falling to roughly 6 and been overtaken by the PS#. And that in and of itself isn't a fully complete statement from a contextual point, because the most likely interpretation from that data to walk away with is that the Wii's tie in ratio still represented a larger number of games because of their larger hardware sales. And even THAT is an incomplete set of statements, because you have to note from the list of successful Wii games and even the examples picked out in your defensive article are dominated by first party Nintendo titles, which does nothing to dispel the point that barring an outlier to two like Guitar Hero 3 (which still only accounted for a quarter give or take of all sales for that franchise installment on the Wii, hardly a dominating showing), the vast majority of third party titles crashed and burned on the Wii and were just flat out never bought and never contributed at all to the tie in ratio. And gently caress knows what that tie -in number looks like in comparison to Xbox and PS now, I can't even find data like that from the past two years and it could be wildly different. This is one the problems right here with Nintendo and its biggest proponents: willful or inept interpretation of data and sales trends that lead to incorrect conclusions.
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Sep 3, 2013 18:05
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