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Rarity posted:The first one that comes to my mind is the set up for the Sheamus/Del Rio feud on the night after Wrestlemania 28, which is completely derailed by the rampant YESing of the crowd. The greatest thing about that night is that the crowd wasn't having any of anything that wasn't Daniel Bryan, actively making GBS threads over pretty much every single segment until the very end when Brock's music hits and the entire WWE Universe collectively suffered a stroke from marking out.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:32
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projecthalaxy posted:What are some good examples of crowd reaction or interaction ruining, or at least dramatically changing the tone of a segment? The example that springs to my mind is at some PPV I want to say Survivor Series, JBL and Michaels had the official kickoff promo in the ring where JBL bought HBK. It was very serious, Shawn was crying, JBL looked like Satan buying someone's soul, then a cardboard standee of 1995 HBK rises up from the third row between them and begins to dance from side to side. Everyone in my group at home and a large portion of the live crowd start laughing mid-segment. Madison Square Garden was not having any of Shawn Michaels' boyhood dream and cheered the poo poo out of Sid as he clobbered an old man with a video camera en route to winning Shawn's title at Survivor Series 96.
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Sep 3, 2013 18:19
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Wasn't the Rock/Hogan match at X-8 rapidly switched to Hogan being the semi-face and the nwo turning on him on the fly after the crowd became very pro-Hogan? Or was I just worked like the 13 year old mark I was?
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Sep 3, 2013 18:19
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crankdatbatman posted:Wasn't the Rock/Hogan match at X-8 rapidly switched to Hogan being the semi-face and the nwo turning on him on the fly after the crowd became very pro-Hogan? Or was I just worked like the 13 year old mark I was? Rock definitely worked a big chunk of the match as a heel, whipping Hogan with his belt and the like. I don't think the nWo turn was booked on the fly though, I may be wrong.
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Sep 3, 2013 18:48
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crankdatbatman posted:Wasn't the Rock/Hogan match at X-8 rapidly switched to Hogan being the semi-face and the nwo turning on him on the fly after the crowd became very pro-Hogan? Or was I just worked like the 13 year old mark I was? Contrary to how WWE would like to rewrite history, that reaction was pretty much expected. Hogan was getting insane face pops starting at No Way Out because he was Hulk Hogan and he'd been off WWF television for 9 years and off all television for 2. The angle was rewritten several weeks before Mania, in part because they wanted to squeeze a big face run out of Hogan and in part because Scott Hall was self-destructing again; this also led Vince to quite insanely put nWo vs. Austin and Rock with a clean finish on free television a week before Mania.
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Sep 3, 2013 19:10
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jeffersonlives posted:Contrary to how WWE would like to rewrite history, that reaction was pretty much expected. Hogan was getting insane face pops starting at No Way Out because he was Hulk Hogan and he'd been off WWF television for 9 years and off all television for 2. The angle was rewritten several weeks before Mania, in part because they wanted to squeeze a big face run out of Hogan and in part because Scott Hall was self-destructing again; this also led Vince to quite insanely put nWo vs. Austin and Rock with a clean finish on free television a week before Mania. Well since this got brought up, I always wondered why Hall (well known he was self-destructing again at the time) got a match at that Mania and Nash just got relegated to being Hall's muscle for the night. Why didn't Nash get his own match too?
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Sep 3, 2013 19:12
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LightsGameraAction posted:Well since this got brought up, I always wondered why Hall (well known he was self-destructing again at the time) got a match at that Mania and Nash just got relegated to being Hall's muscle for the night. Why didn't Nash get his own match too? Austin vs. nWo was supposed to be the long-term main event program for the year, so they shot the initial angle with Hall laying Austin out at No Way Out and stealing the Stunner. Of course, Austin was the guy who got squeezed down into the midcard with the change in the nWo direction to do a Hogan face run combined with Triple H's return; that was really the beginning of his problems with booking.
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Sep 3, 2013 19:18
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Also, my understanding is that given Hall's tendencies they wanted to keep Nash free for WrestleMania just in case Hall had to be pulled from the show.
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Sep 3, 2013 19:21
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I believe Austin was suitably dumbfounded too that of all options to be in the ring with him and his glass neck, they put him with the guy most likely to be in no condition to perform.
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Sep 3, 2013 19:23
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Austin had generally been booked like poo poo for the preceding year and was no long over at the Stone Cold level even after they finally realized that the first and especially the second heel turns were total disastrous ideas and turned him back; there was a lot of damage done at that point. It wasn't really until he went away for that 8 or 9 months and came back for Mania 19 that he was back on track, and that was basically it for his in-ring career.
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Sep 3, 2013 19:30
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jeffersonlives posted:Austin had generally been booked like poo poo for the preceding year and was no long over at the Stone Cold level even after they finally realized that the first and especially the second heel turns were total disastrous ideas and turned him back; there was a lot of damage done at that point. It wasn't really until he went away for that 8 or 9 months and came back for Mania 19 that he was back on track, and that was basically it for his in-ring career. The two man power trip was amazing.
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Sep 3, 2013 19:35
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bobkatt013 posted:The two man power trip was amazing. Some people have a very fond memory of that for whatever reason, probably the RAW match against Jericho and Benoit. I remember Austin going from being the hottest guy in wrestling for three years to a shockingly unover heel in a storyline that was designed to put over Triple H, which ended after a month because of Triple H's injury. Then Austin did bad comedy for a couple months to stall out until the WCW angle kicked in. eta: Regardless of what you think of the Power Trip part, turning him face and then turning him back heel with the WCW faction at Invasion was what completely killed him, IMO. They managed to relight the Austin face fire for a couple weeks and then did a swerve that didn't make story or thematic sense. oldfan fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Sep 3, 2013 |
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Sep 3, 2013 19:38
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El Gallinero Gros posted:What is that Bouncing Souls song at the beginning of CM Punk's DVD? New Day
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Sep 3, 2013 19:59
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Bash Ironfist posted:Are there stories/interviews with wrestlers talking about pops? I'd be interested in hearing how the wrestlers react to particularly big/unexpected pops.
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Sep 3, 2013 20:46
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jeffersonlives posted:eta: Regardless of what you think of the Power Trip part, turning him face and then turning him back heel with the WCW faction at Invasion was what completely killed him, IMO. They managed to relight the Austin face fire for a couple weeks and then did a swerve that didn't make story or thematic sense. I agree. One tell-tale sign of this is the video games that came out during that time of his career. Austin has the stats of an upper midcarder in Here Comes the Pain. He's still better than much of the roster, but he's significantly below Lesnar, Triple H, and Goldberg. That's where he was in the roster at that point.
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Sep 3, 2013 20:58
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Is it really that big a deal that ol' no-knees Austin was doing storylines to put guys like Trips (a legitimately great wrestler prior to the quad injury) and Angle (a legitimately great wrestler for his entire WWE run) over at that time though? Austin has said many times that he wanted to try some new stuff with his character and that was a fine time to do it, when his body was decaying and his career was coming to an end.
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Sep 3, 2013 21:04
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flashy_mcflash posted:Is it really that big a deal that ol' no-knees Austin was doing storylines to put guys like Trips (a legitimately great wrestler prior to the quad injury) and Angle (a legitimately great wrestler for his entire WWE run) over at that time though? Austin has said many times that he wanted to try some new stuff with his character and that was a fine time to do it, when his body was decaying and his career was coming to an end. Coming off his surgery he was at his peak as a worker and at his peak as a draw. Turning him heel hurt WWE's business tremendously, and his subsequent booking was also really bad. The idea with turning Austin heel was he could work programs with Rock and a freshly turned HHH. Then HHH didn't turn face and instead decided to leech off Austin's heat and make the storyline about him. None of this worked out the way they wanted. So yeah, it was. There's ways to put guys over that don't hurt business overall.
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Sep 3, 2013 21:14
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flashy_mcflash posted:Is it really that big a deal that ol' no-knees Austin was doing storylines to put guys like Trips (a legitimately great wrestler prior to the quad injury) and Angle (a legitimately great wrestler for his entire WWE run) over at that time though? Austin has said many times that he wanted to try some new stuff with his character and that was a fine time to do it, when his body was decaying and his career was coming to an end. Austin was having great matches every month, and was as over as he'd ever been because the year off freshened the character. They had recently purchased WCW, which brought in the potential of literally the biggest angle ever with a dozen fresh big matches for face Austin, some of which would have been huge money and none of which ever actually ended up happening. Instead he worked a lousy program with Undertaker and Kane, a program with Chris Jericho that had to be modified and then aborted because of how incredibly bad it was doing in terms of business, and then did another turn to work with Kurt Angle in another program that had to modified and aborted because the dynamic was hosed up. And then he turned face again anyways by the end of the year.
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Sep 3, 2013 21:19
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jeffersonlives posted:Some people have a very fond memory of that for whatever reason, probably the RAW match against Jericho and Benoit. I remember Austin going from being the hottest guy in wrestling for three years to a shockingly unover heel in a storyline that was designed to put over Triple H, which ended after a month because of Triple H's injury. Then Austin did bad comedy for a couple months to stall out until the WCW angle kicked in. Because you somehow care more about business than what's entertaining. Lots of us found heel Austin entertaining, not just for one match but for the overall character because Steve Austin is a hell of a performer. Wait are you IRL HHH?
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Sep 3, 2013 21:42
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No kidding. Wah wah he didn't draw money. It led to Kurt Angle in a tiny cowboy hat, goddammit.
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Sep 3, 2013 21:49
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Hirams Bitch posted:Because you somehow care more about business than what's entertaining. Lots of us found heel Austin entertaining, not just for one match but for the overall character because Steve Austin is a hell of a performer. Seeing a bunch of dream matches and Austin being a kickass babyface that got huge crowd reactions would have been a lot of fun. Wrestling not losing a bunch of its popularity would have been fun too.
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Sep 3, 2013 21:52
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Hirams Bitch posted:Because you somehow care more about business than what's entertaining. Lots of us found heel Austin entertaining, not just for one match but for the overall character because Steve Austin is a hell of a performer. I didn't find it entertaining. Austin went from regularly having really awesome matches to a number of matches that varied from awful to underwhelming with guys he should have been having great matches with (because the in-ring dynamic was borked). The storylines became muddled and nonsensical basically overnight after a year and a half or so period where they had logical, excellent booking. Crowd reactions died. Many of my friends stopped watching. I guess everyone fondly remembers the Benoit/Jericho tag match from the Two Man Power Trip and then comedy bits like Wind Beneath Our Ring/milk truck from the Alliance or whatnot, and that was a great match and a funny segment. But it's not representative of shows that were frankly pretty awful on a week to week basis, and it involved blowing the WWF vs. WCW feud from a creative and in-ring standpoint which shouldn't have even been possible.
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Sep 3, 2013 21:56
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Austin singing "I am the Champion", Kurt Angle in a tiny hat, Austin not needing a badge, lots of good hugs with Vince, these are a few of my favorite things.
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Sep 3, 2013 22:00
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jeffersonlives posted:I didn't find it entertaining. Austin went from regularly having really awesome matches to a number of matches that varied from awful to underwhelming with guys he should have been having great matches with (because the in-ring dynamic was borked). The storylines became muddled and nonsensical basically overnight after a year and a half or so period where they had logical, excellent booking. Crowd reactions died. Many of my friends stopped watching. Dude you are such a smark, if it wasn't for the two man power trip we wouldn't have gotten that classic feud: HHH and Austin vs the Brothers of Destruction. Remember how entertaining that was? Remember what great matches they had?
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Sep 3, 2013 22:02
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It amazed me how consistently over Kane and Undertaker have always been when neither has ever had a good match on their own right without being carried by far superior workers. I honestly can't ever think of a Kane match that I was excited about before/during/after, and Undertaker's best work has been in gimmick HIAC and Wrestlemania matches against legendary preformers.
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Sep 3, 2013 22:22
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Bigass Moth posted:It amazed me how consistently over Kane and Undertaker have always been when neither has ever had a good match on their own right without being carried by far superior workers. I honestly can't ever think of a Kane match that I was excited about before/during/after, and Undertaker's best work has been in gimmick HIAC and Wrestlemania matches against legendary preformers. Undertaker has worked some good matches with guys like Big Show where you can't say he was being carried. Kane is fine for stretches of time and then a feud comes along with a goofy storyline and his matches become the worst thing you've ever seen. Undertaker is legitimately good, Kane is Kane.
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Sep 3, 2013 22:25
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Hirams Bitch posted:Austin singing "I am the Champion", Kurt Angle in a tiny hat, Austin not needing a badge, lots of good hugs with Vince, these are a few of my favorite things. Austin being a giant wuss around Bikertaker. I can't find a picture but he'd tilt his head all the way up and sometimes to the side while getting chewed out.
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Sep 3, 2013 22:30
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Hirams Bitch posted:Austin singing "I am the Champion", Kurt Angle in a tiny hat, Austin not needing a badge, lots of good hugs with Vince, these are a few of my favorite things. Vince begging him to be the "old Stone Cold" is one of the best things ever. "STUN ME DAMNIT, STUN ME".
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Sep 3, 2013 23:55
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I don't know. I feel like Austin was still at his peak in popularity during his initial face run after returning from surgery, and he was turned heel about a half a year after he came back. There was still plenty of potential for face Austin with the Invasion storyline, and the Alliance heel turn was really bizarre. Sure, some of the poo poo that heel Austin did was funny, but it was really one of the things that ruined the Alliance angle from a serious standpoint. This bit of debate has sparked a few questions from me: Did the Two Man Power Trip have a proper blow off or was it killed with Triple H's injury? I watched wrestling regularly at this point but don't remember it well. It's been a while, I guess. You can't help injuries, but that could've been a potentially epic storyline if it had the proper time. I just remember it being mostly a one or two month thing, tops. Was Triple H still a good wrestler performance wise after he came back from the aforementioned injury? Has Chris Jericho ever been a significant part of a "money" match? He's been a main eventer, sure, but most of his big matches seem to be overshadowed by bigger matches on the card, overshadowed by other storylines/characters involved in his match, or botched by bad ring chemistry.
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Sep 4, 2013 00:01
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crankdatbatman posted:I don't know. I feel like Austin was still at his peak in popularity during his initial face run after returning from surgery, and he was turned heel about a half a year after he came back. There was still plenty of potential for face Austin with the Invasion storyline, and the Alliance heel turn was really bizarre. Sure, some of the poo poo that heel Austin did was funny, but it was really one of the things that ruined the Alliance angle from a serious standpoint. It never got a blow off, Triple H returned as a face and went into his feud with Jericho. After the injury HHH wasn't what he was in 99 and 2000, but he was still good. He came back way too big for his own good and was pretty sluggish, but after he got back to proper ring size he was still good. The closest Jericho had to a real money match is his feud with Shawn Michaels. The ladder match they had for the title did really well.
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Sep 4, 2013 00:04
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crankdatbatman posted:I agree. One tell-tale sign of this is the video games that came out during that time of his career. Austin has the stats of an upper midcarder in Here Comes the Pain. He's still better than much of the roster, but he's significantly below Lesnar, Triple H, and Goldberg. That's where he was in the roster at that point. I think the Stone Cold Stunner was still the most powerful move in the game, though.
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Sep 4, 2013 00:18
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Hirams Bitch posted:Austin singing "I am the Champion", Kurt Angle in a tiny hat, Austin not needing a badge, lots of good hugs with Vince, these are a few of my favorite things. This is almost every reason why I hated Austin turning heel. I remember being 11 and confused and annoyed Steve Austin of all people was acting like a silly coward. I wanted to see him fight people and give them stunners!
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Sep 4, 2013 00:23
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Crossposted from the WWE thread:Castomira posted:I don't consider Moolah to have ever taken part in Women's Wrestling. I mentally sequester everything I know about her into its own terrible classification simply called "Moolah Bullshit." VogeGandire posted:Yeah, but a pretty good case could be made for her being the sole reason women's wrestling is not taken seriously outside of Japan.
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Sep 4, 2013 00:41
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Castomira posted:Crossposted from the WWE thread: From the Carnies thread, courtesy of Rousimar Pauladeen. I asked if anybody could tell me about this Greg Grant guy and his sources. Accusing someone of running a human trafficking operation is serious; if it's true, Moolah shoots into the upper tier of the most horrible people in wrestling history. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Sep 4, 2013 |
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Sep 4, 2013 00:52
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Castomira posted:Crossposted from the WWE thread: Moolah ended up buying the biggest women's wrestling title in the 50s or so, and so had carte blanche to book it as she wished. She held that belt from 1956 to 1978, with occassional jobs that she always got back. She also was the most prominent women's trainer in the business and purposely watered down all female wrestling skill to the levels of most of the female wrestlers in the WWE today because she personally was garbage in the ring. Women's wrestling being a joke is 100% her fault, and if you go to Japan, women there can do matches better than the majority of the women in North America because Moolah never was a presence over there. And, yeah, the other stuff mentioned. She's a politicking slimeball slaver who sucked in the ring. gently caress Moolah. rotinaj fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Sep 4, 2013 |
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Sep 4, 2013 01:03
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Wasn't it strongly implied that women who were trained by her were forced into sexual obedience, as well? Or is that a Mae Young thing?
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Sep 4, 2013 01:28
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Whatever happened to Santino? Is he injured?
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Sep 4, 2013 06:18
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Captain Magic posted:Whatever happened to Santino? Is he injured? He took a bunch of time off after a really bad car wreck. Lately he's been busy getting his MMA/wrestling school off the ground.
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Sep 4, 2013 06:22
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Speaking of Santino, has anyone been able to find footage of any of his matches in Battlarts?
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Sep 4, 2013 06:40
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Gar posted:Vince begging him to be the "old Stone Cold" is one of the best things ever. is there a video of this anywhere? I only have the vaguest of recollections of it
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Sep 4, 2013 07:31
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