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AdmiralViscen posted:Has Nintendo released a quarterly report since Animal Crossing came out 2 months ago? Except even in your own articles you're ignoring that "underperforming" is not the same as "stagnant." You're also once again ignoring the tremendous increase in sales that it has seen for the past 3 months in 2013, and will get a further boost on when Pokemon hits later this year. We do not have official Nintendo earning reports but we have actual sales data from various sources which continue to show the 3DS performing very well. It is not performing as well as the DS but, especially considering the current sales environment, it is no means stagnant.
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Sep 4, 2013 23:47
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A lot of people say "Thank God someone is making a console dedicated to games", which is really just another way of saying it doesn't do anything else. While this isn't exactly the case with the Wii U, since you can use streaming services and it has a pretty good browser, I think that if you're going to have the equivalent of a pretty capable computer connected to your TV, you should at least be able to use it for more than just games. Simply having the ability to play other forms of media doesn't detract from its games, and in the case of the Xbox's custom soundtracks it's actually an improvement. If having other features get in the way of playing games, then if you measure it by the amount of time it takes to turn on the console and start a game, the Wii U took far longer before several firmware updates. I use my PS3 as a very good substitute for an HTPC, since it can stream video from my computer, play files off an external hard drive, and play Blu-ray discs and DVDs. Despite the Wii U's GamePad being pretty great for Youtube, none of these other features are really supported, even though it has a disc drive capable of reading DVD and Blu-ray, just not the license to play them. That, as well as its terrible digital distribution, mean that I only turn it on when I want to play a Nintendo game, instead of being something I automatically turn on when I sit down at the TV.
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Sep 4, 2013 23:49
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ImpAtom posted:Except even in your own articles you're ignoring that "underperforming" is not the same as "stagnant." You're also once again ignoring the tremendous increase in sales that it has seen for the past 3 months in 2013, and will get a further boost on when Pokemon hits later this year. I was responding to this post, which is written a whole lot differently from yours MassRafTer posted:If mobile phones are chipping away at their sales it doesn't show, the 3DS is selling faster than the DS did to this point in its lifespan. It's a total success and Nintendo is really lucky they were able to recover from their initial blunder. This should give hope for the Wii U... but no, it really doesn't. The competition is much stiffer and the system isn't priced as well or as nifty with few games to show for it. Up 14% in July in the US in only its third year meets my definition of stagnant, it is okay if you disagree. We can talk about Wii U instead if you want.
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Sep 4, 2013 23:50
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I don't think you know what the word stagnant means.
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Sep 4, 2013 23:59
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Yeah, I think most people take "stagnant" to mean that the userbase isn't growing, and not to mean that the constant growth of the userbase isn't accelerating.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:00
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He may have been trying to use the economic definition of stagnant growth but that still doesn't apply to the 3DS sales numbers any time except maybe prior to the price cut. They would have to be significantly lower to fit that. The Vita is in that territory but we'll have to see how price cuts influence it. (Probably not as much as Sony would like considering there aren't matching games to go with it, but this isn't the "Is the Vita the next Virtual Boy" thread.) That said, I really don't think Nintendo can keep depending on their handhelds. So far their success has be partially good marketing and partially that every single one of their competitors was the victim of a voodoo curse which required them to piss an easy victory down their legs. They really can't keep depending on that even if it's been remarkably consistent to date. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 00:09
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Supercar Gautier posted:Yeah, I think most people take "stagnant" to mean that the userbase isn't growing, and not to mean that the constant growth of the userbase isn't accelerating. Part of it is market saturation. It'll spike again when pocket mans comes out.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:30
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Supercar Gautier posted:Part of it is because it's a point of no return. Whether or not you think the original Wii was a pyrrhic victory, it does show that Nintendo is capable of putting out a successful platform when they strategize appropriately for the market. If they go third party, they're writing that opportunity off entirely. And they don't even have to get all the way back up to Wii levels of success to be profitable in the console market- they've shown that they can turn a profit with more modest results than that. I understand that it's a line Nintendo is too proud to cross, but if they don't want to go third-party on consoles, they could focus exclusively on their handhelds. I just don't see where you're coming from when you say that it would be self-immolation for them to target other consoles, as if Zelda or Smash Bros. on the PS4 and Xbone wouldn't be huge sellers (not exactly a bold prediction).
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Sep 5, 2013 00:40
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I don't think Nintendo making games specially for the iOS (Custom, awesome games specifically for the platform, not ports) is a bad thing, they don't even need to abandon their hardware for it. This guy is sort of right, in my opinion: http://daringfireball.net/2013/09/nintendo_in_motion Some of the most interesting paragraphs: quote:... Nintendo is doing poorly because they seem incapable of producing best-of-breed hardware, both in console and handheld. The world has changed in the last five years, and hundreds of millions of people now carry powerful, well-made, touchscreen computers with them everywhere they go. Nintendo should expand to start making games optimized for these devices — in the short term as opportunity to sell more games, in the long term as a hedge for the possibility that the company will no longer be able to compete at all in hardware. That last bolded part is the most striking to me - I *had* nostalgia for Nintendo's games, but it's now 2013, and I'm loving tired of "Look! It's MARIO again! Ha! And ZEEEEEELDAAAAA! just like a couple of years ago!" And his solution, the whole post is very interesting to read if you're into this "Nintendo business side" thing, and if you're in this thread, you clearly are: quote:Make two great games for iOS (iPhone-only if necessary, but universal iPhone/iPad if it works with the concept). Not ports of existing 3DS or Wii games, but two brand new games designed from the ground up with iOS’s touchscreen, accelerometer, (cameras?), and lack of D-pad/action buttons in mind. (“Mario Kart Touch” would be my suggestion; I’d buy that sight unseen.) Put the same amount of effort into these games that Nintendo does for their Wii and 3DS games. When they’re ready, promote the hell out of them. Steal Steve Jobs’s angle and position them not as in any way giving up on their own platforms but as some much-needed ice water for people in hell. Sell them for $14.99 or maybe even $19.99.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:44
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Toady posted:I understand that it's a line Nintendo is too proud to cross, but if they don't want to go third-party on consoles, they could focus exclusively on their handhelds. I just don't see where you're coming from when you say that it would be self-immolation for them to target other consoles, as if Zelda or Smash Bros. on the PS4 and Xbone wouldn't be huge sellers (not exactly a bold prediction). They would still be huge sellers but it is not really assured they would be huge enough sellers to counter all the downsides that would come with having to play in someone else's sandbox. They've gotten better about it but Sony and Microsoft both can and will exercise control over what goes on their console and in a lot of lovely ways. Think about Microsoft's stupid-rear end patching policy or Sony's "you're not allowed to just release ports" thing on the PSP which prevented several games from getting US releases despite having full English translations in other countries. They may reach the point where it is more viable to sell their stuff third party than to sell it on their own console but it wouldn't be in their benefit to do so until they absolutely have no other choice. Don Tacorleone posted:I don't think Nintendo making games specially for the iOS (Custom, awesome games specifically for the platform, not ports) is a bad thing, they don't even need to abandon their hardware for it. This really won't be viable until the iOS market unfucks itself, and it would actually hurt them to spread their IP to other systems because it would devalue their own hardware as "the only place to play Nintendo games." ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 00:45
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ImpAtom posted:This really won't be viable until the iOS market unfucks itself, and it would actually hurt them to spread their IP to other systems because it would devalue their own hardware as "the only place to play Nintendo games." How much would it hurt them? A lot of kids are not growing up with Nintendo like we did. They're growing up with smartphones and tablets though. They can either 1) Do a SEGA and release games on more platforms, planning for a future Nintendopocalypse where their next platform also flops 2) Stay the course and hope their next platform is a huge hit, and maybe they don't end in irrelevance, like Atari. If they build games for other platforms, people will go "Oh, not exclusive anymore"*, and if they don't, they might be loving themselves for the next generation. Just a matter of figuring which one's worse. * Of course, these people are most likely not playing with a Wii U, so that might be a positive.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:58
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ImpAtom posted:They would still be huge sellers but it is not really assured they would be huge enough sellers to counter all the downsides that would come with having to play in someone else's sandbox. They've gotten better about it but Sony and Microsoft both can and will exercise control over what goes on their console and in a lot of lovely ways. Think about Microsoft's stupid-rear end patching policy or Sony's "you're not allowed to just release ports" thing on the PSP which prevented several games from getting US releases despite having full English translations in other countries. That's true, but surely the downside of not selling anything is larger than that of playing by another vendor's rules. I don't see much future in their worldview of gaming-only hardware. Toady fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 01:04
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Don Tacorleone posted:How much would it hurt them? A lot of kids are not growing up with Nintendo like we did. They're growing up with smartphones and tablets though. It would hurt them a lot. The iOS/Play markets are a success because they thrive primarily on low-budget impulse purchases and F2P skinner boxes. Now, don't misunderstand me. That poo poo is incredibly profitable. It's just profitable because it is very low budget and effort for very high rewards. For Nintendo to continue putting the kind of time and budget they did into 3DS games into an iOS game would probably not have the same rate of return. They could probably do very well by making iOS-style F2P games using their IPS but I don't think anyone thinks that would be the best outcome for anyone. The second party isn't entirely true. Kids are growing up on Nintendo products, they're just not the same Nintendo products we grew up on. Zelda and Metroid and all that? Yeah, no nostalgia there. Mario however is still doing well among kids. It is just that it is things like Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games. Nintendo games still sell well with kids, it is just more things like Pokemon and Animal Crossing. Those games are their money makers these days. They're not growing up with a Nintendo and Nintendo Games the way we did but their IPs are still very strong. Toady posted:That's true, but surely the downside of not selling anything is much larger than that of having to play by another vendor's rules. I don't see much future in their worldview of gaming-only hardware. Well, gaming-only hardware is dead. Even the Wii U/3DS function as Netflix viewers and internet browsers. The big question is going to be if there is a market for a lower-budget gaming focused device and if Nintendo can figure out how to exploit it. If they can't then you're correct and they don't really have a future. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 01:06
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Don Tacorleone posted:I don't think Nintendo making games specially for the iOS (Custom, awesome games specifically for the platform, not ports) is a bad thing, they don't even need to abandon their hardware for it. If Nintendo really wanted to reach the general public through mobile device games they'd be going Android, not iOS.
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Sep 5, 2013 01:09
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Don't software sales on iOS surpass that of Android's?
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Sep 5, 2013 01:10
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I know how to save the Wii U. Look for me in the news and I'll be there.
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Sep 5, 2013 01:12
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Toady posted:Don't software sales on iOS surpass that of Android's? Downloads are higher on Android, profits are higher on iOS I believe. The only reason Nintendo might embrace Android is that Android's gaining a fairly powerful foothold in Japan, although I think iOS is still in the lead there.
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Sep 5, 2013 01:16
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Someone's gonna have to provide us some actual data on apps that cost $20+ in the iOS App Store and how they perform compared to 99 cent/Freemium apps because I gotta imagine the latter does way better if mega-corps like EA prefer it. Either way, it's way smaller margins. That blogger said "put the same effort into an iOS game as you would a $60 retail game" which is just flat out ignorant of that market, and its consumers. And that's why I can't take that opinion seriously. Yes they should spend millions of dollars with a staff of a couple hundred people to make Super Mario Galaxy 3 on iOS for $15. What? Seriously, what? Also Nintendo should send me a unicorn, and cure cancer. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 01:20
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Quest For Glory II posted:That guy said "put the same effort into an iOS game as you would a $60 retail game" which is just flat out ignorant of that market, and its consumers. That's funny, because that guy is John Gruber, who is, and has been for a decade or more, like the unofficial Official Apple flagship blog #1. He's an insufferable twat, but he usually makes very good points, and he tends to be right about a lot of stuff.
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Sep 5, 2013 01:25
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I don't know that Nintendo should be developing new content for cell phones, but they're missing out on the opportunity to gouge people on old ports. They could put that crappy 3 level NES version of Donkey Kong up on the app store for $10 and make a mint.
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Sep 5, 2013 01:31
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Gruber is Apple partisan #1. Even Steve Jobs cited his blog in an interview.
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Sep 5, 2013 01:32
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Toady posted:Don't software sales on iOS surpass that of Android's? They might still for now, but there's a heavy outselling of the devices themselves in Android's favor and if your goal is truly to get Nintendo stuff available to everyone, it's the way to go. Especially since we're not talking about "Nintendo is selling mobile device games tomorrow" but "Nintendo would in a few years".
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Sep 5, 2013 01:32
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Don Tacorleone posted:That's funny, because that guy is John Gruber, who is, and has been for a decade or more, like the unofficial Official Apple flagship blog #1. He's an insufferable twat, but he usually makes very good points, and he tends to be right about a lot of stuff. quote:1. Angry Birds There's also a misconception about what kinds of game experiences the majority of iOS consumers want. These games tell you what they want. They want something they can play for 30 seconds while they're in the subway or waiting for a meeting to start. There are games on iOS with lengthy single-player campaigns, heck a lot of console IPs are represented in some (severely compromised) form on iOS. You can even find indie games like Limbo on iOS. But they ain't on this list, are they? For Nintendo to think iOS is worth it, they'd have to sell a game that can hit the top 10. They've already sold 16 million copies of Mario 3D Land and Mario Kart 7 at $40. How many downloads do they have to reach on iOS to reach that same ROI at a $15 price point? Don't forget the 30% cut taken by Apple. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 01:33
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Throwing my head in here, especially since I'm currently planning to save up for the Wii U myself (helped slightly by the effects of the price cut, even if Nintendo can't directly control it here). The main thing I've found to be... problematic, probably parroting hundreds of others, is the simple lack of content to actually play on the damned thing. Now I'll be able to choose from, amongst others, Wonderful 101 (though being in the vast minority on it, it seems), Pikmin 3, Sonic Lost World next month, Rayman Legends, Tropical Freeze, Wind Waker HD (planning to get the bundle), etc. And whilst that's certainly much of the problem alleviated, as far as I'm concerned, there's also the fact that amongst those... I've only seen two of those actually get advertised - namely Pikmin 3 and Sonic Lost World. The others have mostly been in Nintendo Directs (bar Legends, multi-release and all) as far as I can tell, and those kinda require people to be specifically aware Nintendo Direct is a thing, or when new ones air.
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Sep 5, 2013 01:34
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Gruber reps iOS as true competition to PS4 and XB1 so yeah Nonsense. I'd take his advice more in the sense that Nintendo needs to get some poo poo out there for phone kiddies to buy, or their name will sink into the ether is his argument.
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Sep 5, 2013 01:34
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Don Tacorleone posted:That's funny, because that guy is John Gruber, who is, and has been for a decade or more, like the unofficial Official Apple flagship blog #1. He's an insufferable twat, but he usually makes very good points, and he tends to be right about a lot of stuff. Even he compares it to offering ice water to those in hell though. He's well aware of the market. His belief is that Nintendo could potentially change the market by offering games that are not normally available there. I understand where he is coming from but that seems immensely optimistic to me.
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Sep 5, 2013 01:34
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Quest For Glory II posted:This is not a list of games that have AAA retail console game budgets, they're all games from small teams sold for 99 cents. Quest For Glory II posted:There's also a misconception about what kinds of game experiences the majority of iOS consumers want. These games tell you what they want. They want something they can play for 30 seconds while they're in the subway or waiting for a meeting to start. This is where you go insanely wrong. Quest For Glory II posted:There are games on iOS with lengthy single-player campaigns, heck a lot of console IPs are represented in some (severely compromised) form on iOS. You can even find indie games like Limbo on iOS. But they ain't on this list, are they? Care to list these? Because I've been looking for years for something meaty to buy, that wasn't already available somewhere else, or that wasn't a port of an old game. Anytime you get something like Limbo, or Bastion, welp, already played that so not really loving interested. Stuff like Sword & Sorcery is there, but that'd be a 2nd rate, maybe Greenlight release on Steam. And even that hit the #1 spot for a long while. Look at this sad list: http://www.maclife.com/article/gallery/25_best_iphone_games There's just no source of real, meaty, great games on mobile. EA has been dipping their toes with stuff like Dead Space, or irrelevant versions of Simcity, but again, it's poo poo that you can play on other platforms in a better, fuller way. Nintendo would wreck all this poo poo if they went for it. edit: it occurs to me, even if you were right about iOS gamers, Nintendo's games are usually well playable for short burts of time. I used to see a lot of people on the bus with a DS. Comfy Fleece Sweater fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 01:46
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Don Tacorleone posted:Care to list these? Because I've been looking for years for something meaty to buy, that wasn't already available somewhere else, or that wasn't a port of an old game. Anytime you get something like Limbo, or Bastion, welp, already played that so not really loving interested. quote:There's just no source of real, meaty, great games on mobile. EA has been dipping their toes with stuff like Dead Space, or irrelevant versions of Simcity, but again, it's poo poo that you can play on other platforms in a better, fuller way. Nintendo would wreck all this poo poo if they went for it. I've pretty much turned my nose to iOS gaming because everything is trending towards freemium, rechargable energy/tokens, timers, segmented games, grinding, and other unpleasantries. It's to the point that I don't update my game apps anymore because I got tired of games having features stripped out and placed behind a paywall. I don't share your viewpoint that Nintendo would "wreck this poo poo" because I don't think this market can be fixed. This is clearly the only workable way for any company larger than 2 people. I've seen companies put their apps out for $1.99 and the market responds with "I'll wait until it's free." Any app that's not 99 cents, people demand that it become 99 cents. If Nintendo showed up on the scene with a brand new, high budget console-quality title priced at $20-30, I think they'd be met with quizzical stares and resentment, followed by "make it 99 cents and I'll buy it". Now, if Nintendo wanted to make some sort of supplement app? There'd be value in that. I don't think that they should do a Pokemon title on iOS, but they could do a Pokedex app and I bet it'd do really well. Are there old games they could port over? In terms of touch-based games... there are. Wario Ware Touched, for example, would work fine. Pictobits. Mario vs DK. The smaller titles. There's certainly a market for Picross, I've seen quite a few apps. They could bring the Wara Wara Plaza and Animal Crossing Plaza to iOS as a promotional tool. They could do those sorts of things, since they're drivers back to Nintendo's hardware for potential new buyers. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 02:02
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Quest For Glory II posted:I don't think that they should do a Pokemon title on iOS, but they could do a Pokedex app and I bet it'd do really well. Pretty sure an official Pokedex app for iOS/Android is already a thing.
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Sep 5, 2013 02:12
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Quest For Glory II posted:That blogger said "put the same effort into an iOS game as you would a $60 retail game" which is just flat out ignorant of that market, and its consumers. And that's why I can't take that opinion seriously. Yes they should spend millions of dollars with a staff of a couple hundred people to make Super Mario Galaxy 3 on iOS for $15. What? Seriously, what? Also Nintendo should send me a unicorn, and cure cancer. Everyone seems to have some fantasy business strategy that will save Nintendo, yet every single one of them involves giving them less money for the same stuff they're buying now. Everyone in this thread is clearly passionate about Nintendo IPs or else they wouldn't care what Nintendo does with them. Just get over it and accept the fact that you need to pay a $300 tax every 6 years to play them.
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Sep 5, 2013 02:12
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Pretty sure an official Pokedex app for iOS/Android is already a thing. That's the kind of stuff that I think they can do that is beneficial to them,. I thought about "put Virtual Console on iOS! Hidden emulators in paid apps always sell super great before they're removed!" but people only buy them so they can play their pirated roms, and usually those things (if they're anything like the android emulators I've seen) have ROM search engines built into them. It's a little funny that people are paying for the ability to pirate. Wait maybe I mean hosed up instead of funny. I guess I mean it's hosed up. Also as evidenced by the 3DS/Wii U Virtual Console, Nintendo refuses to believe that maybe more people would buy their old games if they didn't charge $5/10/20 for them. But every time I say that, a bunch of Nintendo sycophants rush in to tell me I'm wrong and that you can't put a price on Earthbound or whatever. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 02:18
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ImpAtom posted:Even he compares it to offering ice water to those in hell though. He's well aware of the market. His belief is that Nintendo could potentially change the market by offering games that are not normally available there. I understand where he is coming from but that seems immensely optimistic to me. He's kind of an idiot. Nobody who plays on phones is looking for that full-fledged hardcore game. Oh, if only Nintendo would swoop in and save the day with Mario Kart iOS for $20! People who want portable Mario Kart are getting the 3DS.
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Sep 5, 2013 02:18
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Astro7x posted:Everyone seems to have some fantasy business strategy that will save Nintendo, yet every single one of them involves giving them less money for the same stuff they're buying now. Everyone in this thread is clearly passionate about Nintendo IPs or else they wouldn't care what Nintendo does with them. Just get over it and accept the fact that you need to pay a $300 tax every 6 years to play them. That's the problem - in 6 years, Nintendo might not be in a position to make 300 dollar hardware where you can play their games. People are not paying that tax right now, with their flagship console the Wii U. So everyone's already going "Save Nintendo!". It'll be the difference between giving them less money, or no money.
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Sep 5, 2013 02:28
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Don Tacorleone posted:That's the problem - in 6 years, Nintendo might not be in a position to make 300 dollar hardware where you can play their games. People are not paying that tax right now, with their flagship console the Wii U. So everyone's already going "Save Nintendo!".
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Sep 5, 2013 02:30
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Quest For Glory II posted:In 6 years iOS might not be a workable marketplace for gaming either. That's way too far away a time to project ANYTHING. Agreed, talking about a move to mobile/other platforms in general. edit: Assuming Nintendo doesn't manage to release another Wii-level moneyprinter, do you think they're the sort of company that would rather sink with the ship, or would they do like SEGA once the poo poo hit the fan?
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Sep 5, 2013 02:31
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Despite the hardest wishes of the ios gaming thread, mobiles won't become a hardcore gamer's paradise.
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Sep 5, 2013 02:31
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Don Tacorleone posted:edit: Assuming Nintendo doesn't manage to release another Wii-level moneyprinter, do you think they're the sort of company that would rather sink with the ship, or would they do like SEGA once the poo poo hit the fan? They chose not to put an achievement system into the Wii U infrastructure because people at Nintendo voted against it. Why? Because they don't like them*. And that's now bitten them in the rear end because they've had to come up with fake achievements in multiple first party titles instead of having an API to hook right into. * that's what I recall anyway, from back in November before launch. I could be wrong, though. But I'm pretty sure it was an internal decision based on "we don't see the big deal!" The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 02:40
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OatmealRaisin posted:He's kind of an idiot. Nobody who plays on phones is looking for that full-fledged hardcore game. Oh, if only Nintendo would swoop in and save the day with Mario Kart iOS for $20! Well it's kind of a chicken and the egg thing. People buy handhelds for full fledged games because you know you aren't going to find a quality full length game on the phone market. But how many people who play pokemon own a smartphone? I don't see Mario Kart being feasible, but you can't tell me that pokemon or animal crossing wouldn't work. Whether it's economically better is a different argument. But it's entirely possible to move full fledged games on phone marketplaces, the biggest barrier is the stigma that phone games are cheap knockoffs instead of real games. You erase that stigma by releasing real games. Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 02:41
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In all seriousness, I'm sure Square is doing ok with those $20 barely touched ports of their old RPGs they poo poo out on phones every few months. It's certainly not their primary business but it is a steady revenue stream.
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Sep 5, 2013 02:56
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As far as "good qualities of a console itself as opposed to the software" I really like the portability of the Gamecube and Wii (and PS2 Slim, though I haven't used it for such nearly as much). Really easy to carry over to a friend's house or pack on vacation. Heck, at 2.5 pounds for the main box I've stuck the Wii, remotes and a few games in the deep pockets of my winter coat and biked over to a game night. The PS3 and 360 are what, twice the size and about 8 pounds? Those are not consoles that are intended to move.
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Sep 5, 2013 03:43
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