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So was Bulldog Bob Brown.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:56
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From Murdoch's Wikipedia page: "In a shoot interview, Bad News Brown accused Dick Murdoch of being a member of the Ku Klux Klan.[4] This was also mentioned by Tito Santana in his autobiography, Tales From The Ring. Former WWE SmackDown head writer Alex Greenfield also related a story told to him by Dusty Rhodes about Murdoch driving them to a Klan party without telling him it was a KKK party beforehand.[5][6]"
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Sep 5, 2013 01:02
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tzirean posted:Happy Hour, I'm pretty sure. Happy Hour loving OWNED and I cannot find any episodes online anywhere, if anyone could find some I would literally love them forever, ESPECIALLY the episode with Wayne Brady. So, what if scenario: Say Sting wins clean as a loving sheet at Starrcade '97, then the nWo disbands. Who would Sting have feuded with? Would the Crow gimmick have remained?
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Sep 5, 2013 06:10
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If Vince Russo made the Lord of the Rings movies I'd probably want to watch them more than as they are presently constituted.
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Sep 5, 2013 06:14
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:In book three the ring is usurped by the Wolfpac Fellowship.  The One Ring is now vacated - we'll have a 32-man tournament to decide who gets it!
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Sep 5, 2013 11:04
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Yo Eleven posted:
Then Disco Inferno carries it into Mordor, at which point the metaphor falls apart because gently caress you.
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Sep 5, 2013 11:12
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There's a certain amount of abyss-hazing gratification I get when it comes to anything Vince Russo. People talk about how McMahon, Dunn, et al dislike wrestling with some good reasoning, but Russo seems to go further than that in his loathing (depending on the bullet he's currently trying to dodge in one of his undoubtedly great shoot interviews). He's a peculiar man. Or maybe just smug and terrible. What astounds me also though, is that I'll read or hear a Russo idea and I'll think initially that it doesn't sound so bad, like the New Blood stable. I watched this shoot trailer, and at one point he starts going off against backstage egotism, something which a number of people have voiced their various frustrations with. Then, like with the New Blood, he'll do something irredeemably ridiculous. In this case, it's just being flat out rude and condescending to wrestlers and fans of wrestling, while obviously also showing his lack of ability at grappling with standard storytelling techniques and conventions. So yes, it's all nothing new to us, but it continues being interesting in a way that's hard to explain!
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Sep 5, 2013 11:37
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The thing about the New Blood stable that makes no sense is that the average fan doesn't know/care that these young guys are being held back, so it was confusing when Billy Kidman wrestled Hulk Hogan out of nowhere. If Russo really wanted to change things he could have just sent Hogan et al. home with pay and not booked them for anything, but I don't know if that was something he could do or not.
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Sep 5, 2013 11:40
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No one's made a ring on a pole joke? Or four poles, one with the One Ring, one full of spiders, one with, I don't know, Sting? And a fourth with some sort of magic that puts you to sleep.
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Sep 5, 2013 14:04
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Snacksmaniac posted:one with, I don't know, Sting? A palantir displaying a constant image of Scott Hall.
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Sep 5, 2013 14:12
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So if the one ring is the TV title and Duggan finds it in the trash, does that make Jim Duggan Gollum? edit: The split personalities of Jim Duggan arguing with each other just say HOOOO a lot.
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Sep 5, 2013 14:32
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They already had a WCW Lord of the Ring.  Slamboree 1996 quote:*Diamond Dallas Page won the Battlebowl match also featuring: The Barbarian, Earl Robert Eaton, Ice Train, Scott Norton, Rocco Rock, Johnny Grunge and Dick Slater (9:33)
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Sep 5, 2013 14:45
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Solomonic posted:A palantir displaying a constant image of Scott Hall. Book it.
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Sep 5, 2013 15:16
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Snacksmaniac posted:No one's made a ring on a pole joke? Or four poles, one with the One Ring, one full of spiders, one with, I don't know, Sting? And a fourth with some sort of magic that puts you to sleep. Sting the wrestler or Sting the sword? I guess it doesn't matter.
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Sep 5, 2013 15:17
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Bigass Moth posted:Sting the wrestler or Sting the sword? I guess it doesn't matter. Sting wielding Sting like a bat.
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Sep 5, 2013 15:18
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So I watched the Clash of the Champions that was featured on that Synchtube list, the one after Hog Wild '96, and it reminded me of one of the major reasons I was hooked on WCW: Rey Mysterio Jr. He had a match with Dean Malenko, mostly Rey on the offense, some sloppy moments, especially the ending, but drat, Rey was in amazing shape and was just incredible. Then I thought, isn't Rey here about the same age as Sin Cara is now? Rey didn't need to adapt to an American ring, and his flow of moves is just outstanding. Seems to me people were always finding alibis for Sin Cara's botches. Also, Rey really did get bloated over the years. Other matches were good, too, even Konnan VS. Ultimo Dragon. Actually, the whole show was decent, with an emphasis on WCW's international roster. Too bad they weren't consistent. I guess Hogan and the nWo needed all the attention, but you can tell that the nWo wasn't the only hot angle at the time, the cruiserweight division had the crowd's attention as much as the Outsiders.
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Sep 5, 2013 16:03
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Rey, around 96-97, was the best high-flyer of all time.
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Sep 5, 2013 16:09
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Rad R. posted:you can tell that the nWo wasn't the only hot angle at the time, the cruiserweight division had the crowd's attention as much as the Outsiders.
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Sep 5, 2013 16:13
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In this edition of the Clash of the Champions, they actually talk about the cruiserweights and how WCW has the best selection of international talent. They plug Konnan as the AAA heavyweight champ and talk about Japan and Mexico. To be more specific, they brought out Mike Tenay to do the play-by-play and hype the whole division. There was a moment in the Malenko/Mysterio match where Rey went flying out of the ring and onto the concrete, you can see how he lands on his feet but falls to his knees pretty quick, and what impressed me was that he just got up. Sin Cara would have been done.
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Sep 5, 2013 16:24
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Rad R. posted:Rey Mysterio Jr. He had a match with Dean Malenko, mostly Rey on the offense, some sloppy moments, especially the ending, but drat, Rey was in amazing shape and was just incredible. Then I thought, isn't Rey here about the same age as Sin Cara is now? Rey didn't need to adapt to an American ring, and his flow of moves is just outstanding. Seems to me people were always finding alibis for Sin Cara's botches. Also, Rey really did get bloated over the years. Rey is one of the best cruiserweights ever, that's kind of like saying "Why isn't Batista as good as Bret Hart??" Well, not really the same I guess, Mistico & Rey do have a lot more similarities. Starting at a young age, being trained by their uncles. Rey is just a lot better than any of his contemporaries, so it's not really fair to compare other people to him as if he's the baseline for lucha guys working a new style in the US. Edit: Also I feel like Rey got eased into things more, WCW had a lot more guys on their roster who could work with him (Malenko, Eddy, all the other cruisers). Sin Cara was kinda thrown into the deep end of the WWE. I guess these are the alabis you're talking about, but I do think they're legit.
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Sep 5, 2013 16:25
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I think they're legit to a certain extent. Rey, in his prime - which is about the same age as Sin Cara is now - had a much better flow and a better sense of timing than Sin Cara. I'll admit it, I'm not a Sin Cara fan, and I absolutely love Rey. The only reason I'm mentioning Sin Cara is because people always compare him to Rey, and they were even paired as a tag team. I think he could work with guys like Justin Gabriel or Evan Bourne. But then WWE creative would have to come up with a long term angle and reinstate the cruiserweight division. Back to the topic of the Clash and WCW in general. Did they ever consider making a separate, cruiserweight-only show? They really had a great thing going. I grew up with the WWF, but when I saw WCW and how versatile their roster was, I had to continue watching. Is the cruiserweight division present in any other promotion or sport? I'm wondering, because my spellchecker always underlines the term 'cruiserweight' as wrong.
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Sep 5, 2013 16:33
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Cruiserweight exists in that there boxing, and has for quite some time.
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Sep 5, 2013 16:43
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Yeah it's been around in boxing for about 30 years. And I doubt they would have ever considered a cruiserweight-only show. While it was a lot of fun to watch the matches on Nitro and Thunder, it would be kind of hard to build an entire show for U.S. audiences around only a handful of native English speakers.
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Sep 5, 2013 16:58
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Rad R. posted:Back to the topic of the Clash and WCW in general. Did they ever consider making a separate, cruiserweight-only show? No, but there was a real, concrete attempt to make an NWO-only show.
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Sep 5, 2013 17:17
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Snacksmaniac posted:Sting wielding Sting like a bat. And having his entrance music performed live by Sting. 
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Sep 5, 2013 19:47
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Rey came out of AAA, Sin Cara came out of CMLL. Huge stylistic difference with AAA guys much better suited for crossing over to the American style. Plus, Rey, Juvy, and Psychosis had all worked ECW (and Rey had been to Japan as well) before heading to WCW. Not to defend how bad Sin Cara has been for most of his WWE career, but it was a move that was likely to fail from the start.
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Sep 5, 2013 20:20
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I remember back when the George Michael Sports Machine was a thing on NBC news, he'd cover wrestling sometimes and did a highlight reel of a Mysterio match. They cut back to the anchors, who were like "I don't really follow this stuff but I'd start following to see that guy. He's nuts"
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Sep 5, 2013 20:27
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DeathChicken posted:I remember back when the George Michael Sports Machine was a thing on NBC news, he'd cover wrestling sometimes and did a highlight reel of a Mysterio match. They cut back to the anchors, who were like "I don't really follow this stuff but I'd start following to see that guy. He's nuts" Ah yes - Wednesday night wrestling. The anchors were always surprised by how good the good stuff was.
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Sep 5, 2013 20:50
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Rad R. posted:So I watched the Clash of the Champions that was featured on that Synchtube list, the one after Hog Wild '96, and it reminded me of one of the major reasons I was hooked on WCW: Rey Mysterio Jr. He had a match with Dean Malenko, mostly Rey on the offense, some sloppy moments, especially the ending, but drat, Rey was in amazing shape and was just incredible. Then I thought, isn't Rey here about the same age as Sin Cara is now? Rey didn't need to adapt to an American ring, and his flow of moves is just outstanding. Seems to me people were always finding alibis for Sin Cara's botches. Also, Rey really did get bloated over the years. Sin Cara didn't get the chance to adapt that Rey did. Rey worked a bunch of matches in the US prior to his WCW signing against Mexican talent including a series in ECW. When you get a chance to work in front of American fans, even with other luchadores you get an idea of what works and what doesn't. He also came from AAA which while less Americanized then than now did have more American influence than CMLL even today does. Then when he gets to WCW he's working with luchadores or guys like Dean Malenko who can work any style. Sin Cara comes to WWE and has to immediately adapt to WWE style against Chavo because WWE figured he could work with a luchadore despite barely having worked in Mexico.
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Sep 5, 2013 21:15
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Watching old Sin Cara/Mistico stuff is like a completely different guy (yes I realize there were two Misticos but I'm talking about Sin Cara). He's about 500 times faster and smoother, and in way better shape. I don't know if he was just gassed up, or if he just turned to complete poo poo when he had to slow down.
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Sep 5, 2013 21:46
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It's Observer Hall of Fame season so it's "Dave responds to Sting fans on the board" season.quote:If he was the most important guy in a national promotion for a long period of time, that would be a great qualification especially if it was successful.
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Sep 10, 2013 01:10
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MassRafTer posted:It's Observer Hall of Fame season so it's "Dave responds to Sting fans on the board" season. I never realized that the first 120 inductions were hand-picked by Meltzer until now. I thought everyone had went through the voting process. Sting moved merchandise and was the face of the (for a couple years) biggest promotion in the United States. He should be in. And bullshit that Sting wasn't a draw. Even though he wasn't wrestling in 1997, WCW still sold out arenas because you knew he'd show up in some form to gently caress with the nWo.
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Sep 10, 2013 01:28
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EugeneJ posted:I never realized that the first 120 inductions were hand-picked by Meltzer until now. I thought everyone had went through the voting process. When he started the HoF he put in the no doubters because if they were all voted in the process would take years. As for the rest... Did you even read his post? Sting was the face of the company in its two worst years and the top face in a year he wrestled one PPV match. He drew one big PPV buyrate. Look at the periods Sting was on top of WCW and look how the company was doing. The answer is badly. Hell, just look at the event where he won the title for the first time. It had tons of build up and it drew a half house to one of WCW's best cities. Hulk Hogan was the face of WCW when it was the biggest promotion in the US. I guess you could argue Goldberg was for a month as well since WCW was on top briefly during his run. Sting was a guy who took a ton of time off and ran in once every few weeks on Nitro.
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Sep 10, 2013 01:34
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MassRafTer posted:Sting was a guy who took a ton of time off and ran in once every few weeks on Nitro. ...people bought tickets to see him run in on Nitro. Whatever the main events were during the Monday Night War didn't matter because half the time the main event was a promo or some clusterfuck. Sting was a draw as a non-wrestler.
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Sep 10, 2013 01:43
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EugeneJ posted:...people bought tickets to see him run in on Nitro. Whatever the main events were during the Monday Night War didn't matter because half the time the main event was a promo or some clusterfuck. Sting was a draw as a non-wrestler. This is so very wrong. If you look at the biggest Nitro ratings from the Sting in the rafters period, you can attribute some to Sting. He definitely was over. He definitely was popular and drew ratings. But the main events DID matter. That's why the biggest ratings in wrestling history were for matches, and you can see that in the Nitro ratings too. The big angles did ratings, but the big main events tended to be matches. Stuff like Luger vs Hogan or Luger vs DDP. The latter sounds ridiculous, but tension had built for a month between Luger and DDP, the only two guys really united against the nWo. You mention the gates, but Nitro didn't do its biggest gates when Sting was in the rafters, it didn't do them when he was champion, it did its biggest gates when Goldberg was champion. Sting was taking another six months off during its biggest live gate run too! His big TV matches after his return didn't light the world on fire either, nor did his PPV numbers. But you know what, let's take Hogan out of the equation. Let's take Luger out of the equation. Let's take the nWo out of the equation. Let's give 1997 to Sting. All 600,000 buys to Sting for Starrcade. Give him the Nitro gates too. Should Batista be in the Hall of Fame? He drew a bigger buyrate than that and several other really big ones. He drew bigger audiences on TV. Of course he shouldn't be. Should Larry Z? He and Bruno drew incredible houses in the Northeast for their feud, and sustained it rather than just doing one big one. He had a long career and main evented for a few companies... all failures other than that Bruno run. The crowd even popped huge for him on Nitro! (Maybe they paid to see him do his little hand thingy?) Should Luger be in? The first half of his career was more of a success than Sting and he got those huge reactions during the nWo angle. Sting was a hot property for one year up against the biggest heel act in the history of wrestling. In the end he wasn't even the biggest face draw for WCW in that period, Goldberg was. So, don't even act like his run was so special. It was really cool. I loved watching it.
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Sep 10, 2013 03:02
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EugeneJ posted:...people bought tickets to see him run in on Nitro. Whatever the main events were during the Monday Night War didn't matter because half the time the main event was a promo or some clusterfuck. Sting was a draw as a non-wrestler. Why would you credit those houses to Sting, who was usually unadvertised, frequently was not on the shows at all, and with only a handful of exceptions didn't do anything except look vaguely foreboding in the stands when he did show up, as opposed to Hogan, Savage, Luger, Piper, Flair, Wight, The Outsiders, etc.?
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Sep 10, 2013 03:07
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jeffersonlives posted:Why would you credit those houses to Sting, who was usually unadvertised, frequently was not on the shows at all, and with only a handful of exceptions didn't do anything except look vaguely foreboding in the stands when he did show up, as opposed to Hogan, Savage, Luger, Piper, Flair, Wight, The Outsiders, etc.? Because it was so cool when Sting repelled down that it doesn't matter what WCW house shows and PPVs he wasn't on did, Sting must've drawn those fans! (It was really cool. But it was also cool when Batista power bombed HHH.)
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Sep 10, 2013 03:18
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I was a proponent of Sting up until a couple of years ago when I realized he's pretty much the Jack Morris of the Observer HOF. When your best argument eventually boils down to "It's Sting!" and Starrcade 97, it's not enough.
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Sep 10, 2013 03:23
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ChampRamp posted:I was a proponent of Sting up until a couple of years ago when I realized he's pretty much the Jack Morris of the Observer HOF. When your best argument eventually boils down to "It's Sting!" and Starrcade 97, it's not enough. This is actually pretty true for me too. When I first saw Sting wasn't in I thought "That is dumb as gently caress" then I looked at some of the arguments over the baseball HoF and realized why he shouldn't be. Granted if Don Mattingly could be in the baseball HoF I would be the happiest 7 year old kid on earth when realistically he's Sting.
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Sep 10, 2013 03:25
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Sting would run-in during commercial breaks and take out the nWo during Nitro tapings - it was never televised, but the point was that the live crowd wanted Sting so they were given Sting...usually during a blackout so they were left wanting more. I went to Nitro tapings during that period - the crowd anticipation for Sting was very comparable to Austin's first face run and the "3:16" craze which erupted soon after.
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Sep 10, 2013 03:27
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